Long Game 38: In the beginning...

[Jondesu he/him]

Just now, Lemonelon said:

Lemon will not be boring and I am shooting Droughtbringer

Drought is Boring right now. I’m not sure that will work. @AliasSheep, is that shot valid?

[little wilson she/her]

4 hours ago, randuir said:

So If we're fixing things through the normal vote process, what kind of rules would we have to submit to make that happen? 

If we want to move to being a more regular elimination game, I think lynches and faction attacks should be instant kills (so no surviving with 2 lives). Also, either the brotherhood's conversion ability needs to be capped, or we need 1-2 more factions to turn it into a full faction game. There's a couple of other things as well, but these seem like relatively immediate concerns. Doe anyone have anything else to add?

We can vote to repeal rules. We already did that with the kill-conversion rule. So I'd say more stuff like that. We'll want to plan for the most pressing issues though so we don't get 8 rules we really want all in one turn and then two the following turn.

I definitely agree the Brotherhood conversion needs to be capped, but I also think a couple more factions would be a good idea as well. Just one or two more factions. Nothing too crazy. And a better end-game solution than a giant meteor.... We just created the Cosmere. Why are we trying to destroy it now?

[Steeldancer he/him]

12 minutes ago, little wilson said:

We can vote to repeal rules. We already did that with the kill-conversion rule. So I'd say more stuff like that. We'll want to plan for the most pressing issues though so we don't get 8 rules we really want all in one turn and then two the following turn.

I definitely agree the Brotherhood conversion needs to be capped, but I also think a couple more factions would be a good idea as well. Just one or two more factions. Nothing too crazy. And a better end-game solution than a giant meteor.... We just created the Cosmere. Why are we trying to destroy it now?

I'm still in for a every one wins ending to the game. 

[Jondesu he/him]

1 hour ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm still in for a every one wins ending to the game. 

Nah, this is Sanderson Elimination.  We can't all win.

[Steeldancer he/him]

39 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Nah, this is Sanderson Elimination.  We can't all win.

Jondesu, idk about you right now. But I'm not seeing much eliminating going on right now  all I'm seeing is bunnies and platypi. 

[DeTess she/her]

Okay. What would be a reasonable conversion cap? Given their numbers, I'd say no more than 2-3 conversions? Of course, all the other things they can do with their faction ability remain in play.

Edit: I won't propose the cap right away, as I think this is something that needs to be discussed a bit more so that we don't need to adjust the numbers again later.

Edited September 18, 2017 by randuir
Horrible spelling

[little wilson she/her]

2-3 makes sense to me. The rules for this cycle don't say how many they started with, but I think the rule proposal was 3, so 2-3 conversions (probably not counting any marriages), would allow for a team of 5-6, which is a good-sized team, especially adding in marriages. Though Drake is now dead, as is Len, so that's 4-5 + marriages. So a max of....8-10? I think. Assuming the converts don't marry the initial members post-conversion. I think 2 conversions would be best since a max of 8 players is far more reasonable than 10.

And I would concur with Jon about the end game condition/win con not being everyone winning. I can see why that would appeal, but right now, there are at least faction win cons (including the village "faction") that have win cons that cannot work together. The "village" has to get rid of all the factions. The Brotherhood has to get rid of all items and kill roles (which means they have to somehow remove all the WorldSmiths, who all have access to their faction kill). Saying that "everyone wins" feels.....cheap....to me. We really just need to get a game-ending-condition in place, whether that's a "the game ends on this cycle" or "once this thing happens".

[Lemonelon]

I think Len and Drake were married so we are probably looking at about 4 members of Brotherhood. They seem like an anti-elim team which may be like a village with a doc? So probably needs around 10 members based on how many players we have? I'm viewing the factionless as more of a SK role so I think there should be less, worldsmiths as elims and agents of chaos... No idea how they fit into the game.

[DeTess she/her]

@Lemonelon, the village goal recently changed, and is now more like a regular village, with a win-con incompatible with all other factions.

[little wilson she/her]

Yeah, I wouldn't call the Brotherhood a village faction, especially since the former factionless are now stereotypical villagers (note: they weren't SK-type roles before either, because they didn't have a kill. They had an SK win con without the SK power, which is the main thing that makes the SK a Serial Killer. The former factionless were more lone-wolf types). 

10 is definitely too high for the Brotherhood. It basically makes it so they're confirmed to win. Right now, the WorldSmiths, their biggest enemy, knows their player list, and they know the WorldSmith player list. This means the two factions have a sort of Mutually-Assured-Destruction thing going on. If the Brotherhood starts targeting WorldSmiths, the WorldSmiths will start killing off the Brotherhood. If the Brotherhood have an unlimited conversion or a conversion that stops after they have 10 members, going by Lemon's guess of 4 Brotherhood members (which sounds about right to me), that puts 6 new Brotherhood members who the WorldSmiths have no idea about, but they know everything about the WorldSmiths. Yeah, the WorldSmiths will lose to that. And not just the WorldSmiths. The Stereotypical Villagers will too, since they need to kill all the factions. That's 4 + ~6 + ~3. So ~13 players that they need to kill. With around ~16 living villagers to do it. Before marriages and conversions potentially reduce that ~16 and increase that ~13. Giving the Brotherhood an additional 6 people on their team, that's ~19 players in factions versus ~10 "villagers," and 10 of those factioned players are on the same faction so.....basically the village is trying to off a team that's the exact same size as the village. Yeah, the village is gonna lose, even if the Brotherhood can't kill.

[Lemonelon]

What about something to combine the worldsmiths and brotherhood to be joint elims under a new name, the villagers stay as they are and agents of chaos become SK? These are pretty much the only roles I really know about for this game... to take the conversion from the brotherhood seems a bit mean if they don't have a kill. Maybe everyone who is part of the big elim team get their lives reduced to 1 and the SK and villagers have 2?

I'm fairly new to SE and the game just feels a bit off, but I don't really have the knowledge to fix. I'll keep coming up with random thoughts for people to think on though  

[little wilson she/her]

It's not taking away their conversion. It's limiting their conversion, because right now, it's unlimited, and with their faction powers, they'll be able to crush the WorldSmiths (who they know the entire member list of, thanks to Drake/Len) if they have an unlimited conversion. The Brotherhood doesn't need a kill. They have a pretty powerful faction ability that can stop most threats to their faction as it is, because they roleblock kill roles and get rid of any and all kill items their target possesses. And technically, they can kill - with the lynch. The Brotherhood is fairly OP right now, in comparison to their opposition.

I'm not a fan of combining the WorldSmiths and Brotherhood into one faction and turning the game into a classic elimination game + a SK faction. Not only is that uber unbalanced (even if it's just the WorldSmiths + the Brotherhood, that's probably ~10 eliminators vs a ~3 person SK team vs ~16 villagers, which is just an elim rate of over 34%. The village would be screwed), but this game is supposed to be different, and trying new things. Turning into a classic game destroys that. And it's fun right now. Ish. It could be more fun, but it's not bad as it is. It could just be better.

[AliasSheep]

The thread is now closed.  We'll get the next turn up as soon as possible.

[AliasSheep]

" When the earth first became hot and the heavens churned and the sun was dark, land emerged from the slime of the sea. The deepest darkness of caverns, a male, and the moonless darkness of night, a female, gave birth to the simple lifeforms of the sea. The coral that builds islands was born, and the grub, the sea cucumber, the sea urchin, the barnacle, the mussel, the limpet, and cowry, and the conch and other shellfish. Born was the seagrass, guarded by the tough landgrass on land; born was the Manauea moss of the sea, matched by the Manauea taro plant on land; born was the Kele seaweed, and the Ekele plant of the land." - Kumulipo

---

Rule #1 was voted in.

The Rule Submissions for this turn are:

#1 - 

changelings
4 factionless are converted to the changeling faction.
This faction has the following win-condition:
Have at least one member survive till game end.
Collectively absorb at least 2/3 of the roles. This refers to the unique instances of the role, not the total amount of roles in the game (so the changelings only need to absorb 1 strong-willed, 1 potato-master, 1 elementalist, etc.)
1 Changelings can absorb the power of a lynched person (who has to have died from the lynch), provided he/she voted on that person during the lynch with a red(killing) vote. One random role the person had is added to the collective pool of roles the changelings have access to.The use of this faction power is mentioned in the write-up, though the identity of the changeling isn't revealed (For example: Drake Marshall has been lynched. A changeling has absorbed one of his roles).
Any changeling can decide to start using an absorbed role at the end of a night cycle. He will lose his own roles, but gain the absorbed role until the end of the next cycle. Afterwards, he'll lose the absorbed role and regain his own roles. After use, the absorbed role is put back into the 'pool', and can be used again by another changeling. A role can be used in consecutive cycles, by both the same changeling or by different ones.
1 changeling can also choose to watch someone during the night. If this person dies during the night, one of his roles is absorbed, in the same manner as when someone has been lynched. However, any actions against the watched person during the night have a 33% chance of hitting the changeling watching him instead.

---

Ecthelion III has died!  They were a Potato Master.

---

The Rules, as of Day 4:

Factions

Spoiler

 

The Agents of Chaos
Win Condition: Create enough chaos
Abilities: Can use each ability in the game once

Agents of Chaos may be part of other factions as well.  They have a doc to communicate in.
The WorldSmiths
Win Condition: Have the most items by the end of the game

Abilities: Each night the WorldSmiths can kill someone.  When they kill someone, an item is created and given to the killer which contains one of the victim’s abilities or traits (such as access to a doc or a role ability) as decided by RNG.  The person holding the item is then able to use that trait as if it were their own.

Items can be given away for one action during the Night.

The WorldSmiths have a doc in which to communicate in called Celestial Abode.

The Brotherhood of Peace
Win Condition: Remove all kill roles and items from the game
 

Each cycle, one of the members of the brotherhood can proclaim their peaceful ways to someone else. This has one of several effects, depending on the target chosen.

If the target has an item that allows for a kill, that item is removed. If the target has more than one such items, all are removed.
If the target has a role or faction ability that allows for performing a kill, that players is instead role-blocked for a cycle(if the player has both items and roles, he only loses the items, and is not role-blocked).
If the target is faction-less and did not have a role/item that allowed for performing a kill, they are converted to the brotherhood of peace.
The Elementalist role does not count as a kill role, though it can be used as such. An Elementalist converted to the brotherhood can not use their element to kill.

A person can only be targeted once by the brotherhood in the course of the game. The brotherhood has a temple dedicated to peace, in which they can meditate on their peaceful ways (in other words, they have a faction doc).
 

Stereotypical Villager
Overly paranoid, highly xenophobic, and poor losers, they win if they remove all other factions with a mechanically achievable and game-relevant win-con.

 

Roles

Spoiler

 

Gunsmith (Unique)
Win Condition: Hand out all their guns and have them be used before they die.  They must also complete all their faction’s win conditions.

Abilities:  The Gunsmith starts with 5 guns.  Each night they can give any number of their remaining guns to players of their choosing.

Using a gun:  If a player has a gun, they may post in the thread at any time “I am shooting [player name]”.  Their target then dies if they do not have any protection (this does not bypass both lives) and thus must stop posting and PMing.  If a player who does not have a gun does this, they instead are the one who dies.

Potato Master (2-3 players)
Abilities:  Each cycle you may gift a player a potato.  The potato takes on a randomly decided form out of Raw, Baked or Mashed.

If the potato given was Raw, then the player it was given to is roleblocked for a cycle.
If the potato given was Baked, the receiver gains a one-time roleblock ability.
If the potato given was Mashed, the receiver gains a one-time role-scan ability. 

Strong-Willed
After having died, a player with the Strong-Willed role has the ability to make a final post at any time until the end of the cycle.  They are not given access to the dead doc until after this post is made or the end of the cycle has happened, whichever occurs first.

Paranoia
Each night, a player with the Paranoia role may activate their ability. If they do: If they are attacked that night, they survive the night and execute an attack against all the people who attacked them.  If they are not attacked that night, then they die.

Dungeon Master
Each night a person with the Dungeon master role may do two of the following:

• Create a mob of NPCs, doubling their votes for the next day.
• Influence the dice, choosing a player and redirecting a random action targeted at the Dungeon Master to that player instead.
• Deny a player's request, roleblocking them for the Night.”

Elementalist
You are assigned an element.  Provided you can justify it thematically, you may perform any action that is cleared with the GMs.

Secret Keeper
Once per cycle, the Secret Keeper may introduce a rule into the game that is guaranteed to come into play, provided the GM allows it.

Odium
Odium gains a kill action that they may use at night.  They must be the last person alive.  No faction may win until Odium is removed from the game.

General Abilities

Spoiler

 

Role Proposal
Each turn, a player may submit a rule proposal in their GM PM.  In the following write-up, all the rule proposals are anonymously presented to be voted upon.  The three proposals with the most votes are incorporated into the game, starting the next turn.

Rule Votes
Each turn, a player may submit a rule vote in their GM PM.  This vote must select one of the rule proposals presented that turn that the player supports.  The three proposals with the most votes are incorporated into the game, starting the next turn.

In addition to being able to vote for a rule players, also get a single vote against a proposed rule each cycle. This counts as -1 to its total votes.

If a given rule has 0 or fewer votes, it won't be passed, even if it is technically in the top three proposals by merit of being the only rule etc.

Proposal
At any time, a player may submit an order to propose to another player.  This order is unblockable and unredirectable.  A player who has been proposed to may then submit an order to accept the proposal.  The proposal expires at the end of the following turn.  If the proposal is accepted, the two players are then considered married.  This is irreversible.  The two share all traits, including but not limited to, access to docs, win conditions and faction abilities.  This remains true even if one of the pair dies.

Adoption
At any time, a married pair may submit an order to adopt another player, requiring consent from both parties.  A player who has such proposed to them may them submit an order to accept it and become adopted.  In addition, a fourth player must also submit an order to acknowledge the adoption.

The married pair then becomes aware of their adopted child’s roles, alignment and items.  They are also added in to any PMs the child is a part of or becomes a part of.  After 3 cycles, the adopted child may choose to end the arrangement.

PM Creation
During a night turn, a player may create up to two PMs each with up to three players in them.  All PMs must include at least one GM (AliasSheep or Stink).

Infuse spheres
A player may put any number of their uninfused spheres out in the highstorm during the night turn.  These spheres are then returned to them the following day turn, infused, unless the spheres are stolen.

This action does not expend an infused sphere.

Steal spheres
A player may target another player during the night turn.  If that player had spheres out in the highstorm, then the first player gains those spheres the following day turn rather than the player whose spheres they originally were.

 

Passive Rules

Spoiler

 

Lives
Each player has two lives.  If a player has two lives, then if they would die, they instead lose one life.

Alternation
Each cycle there is a 15% chance that all rules, including but not limited to: win conditions, probabilities and item effects, will reverse.  There is then an 85% chance that the rules will switch back.

Boringness
If a player receives no votes, that player is Boring. Boring players can't be targeted by other players because no one pays attention to them. Further, since no one pays attention to Boring players, no one is affected by their actions. No one pays attention to their votes, because they're so boring, unless they vote on themselves, which makes them interesting, and stops them from being Boring.

Pancakes
Each player starts with a random number of pancakes up to a maximum of 5.  Each day turn, a pancake is consumed.  During the night, one action may be spent to gain 2 pancakes.  If a player runs out of pancakes, they become Hungered.  A Hungered player may not vote and may only use their night actions to gain pancakes.  If a player remains Hungered for a whole cycle, they lose the ability to talk in the game thread and may only use their actions to gain pancakes or create PMs.

Roleclaiming
If a player claims their role, either in the thread, PMs or in a doc, they die the turn after.  Their items as a result of this death are then divided randomly among the people they had PMs with.  A player may however, affirm or deny another player’s guess of their role.

Spheres
Each player starts the game with 5 infused spheres.  Each action they take uses up a sphere, changing it from infused to dun.  They can be infused again using the “Infuse spheres” action.  

Random Redirection
Each night, a single action from any player is redirected to a random target, though it may not affect the original target.

Family Ties
A player many not kill, attack or vote for their spouse, their adopted children or the spouse or adopted children of their adopted children, and so on down the family tree.  If a player does attempt to do so, any votes are cancelled and they are roleblocked the next turn.

If a married couple has a win condition that would require one to kill the other, this particular case no longer applies, and they can win without killing each other.

Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half
Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half must at all times be referred to as Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half.

Vendetta
Each player is assigned another player with whom they have a Vendetta.  As a part of a secondary win condition, they must attempt to play a direct part in that player’s death, be that through lynching them or killing them by action.
 

RP Pancakes
If a player's RP in a turn is 250 words or more, they gain a pancake.

RP Keteks
If, during a day turn, a player's RP contains a coherent ketek in bold, they gain a free action to use the following night.

Bunnies
Each player receives one bunny which is either male or female.  If a player has a male bunny and a female bunny, they gain another bunny each cycle.

Platypus: item. 

5 platypi will be distibuted into the game. A person with a platypus may steal a bunny from another player each cycle. A player with a platypus gains the win condition "wins if they have 10 bunnies." 
A player with a platypus may use this ability regardless of whether they or their target are boring.  Platypi cannot be eaten by Bunnies.

Action Limit
No one may use an ability or item with the same effect more than once in a turn.

The Meteor
A giant meteor will strike the thread on Day 7, killing everyone, reducing their lives to 0. The game will end after the meteor strikes, with win conditions being determined at that time.

The Lynch

Spoiler

 

Each day turn, a lynch occurs.  Each player may vote up to three times, and may vote in either red or orange.  If a player wishes to retract or change one of their votes, they must put that vote in green in the post they retract or post the new vote.

The player with the most red votes at the end of the day turn is killed.  The player with the most orange votes at the end of the day turn is roleblocked until the next day turn.

 

Set-up

Spoiler

 

Dula’s Gift
Each player at the beginning receives one of the following items, chosen randomly:

Knife (Ka-neef-fay). This item may be used when you make a kill action.  Your kill action applies before any other actions. 

Machete Throwing Ape (Ma-cheat-tee-throw-ing-app-y). You may kill a player with a 50% of working. If it misses it goes to the other dimension and trolls people. (Interpretation of this is left to the user. (Please discuss with Sheep how you want it to troll people.))

Monkey (Munk-why). You may target a player.  That player is role blocked.

Each item, when used, is removed from the player’s inventory.

 

 

---

Player List
Straw - Straw
coal - King Cole
Qwertyuiop - Hemalurgic_Headshot Hastur Hastur Hastur
Willow - little wilson
Hoid - winter devotion
Kintas - Jondesu
Locke Tekiel - Orlok Tsubodai
Non Sequitur - Sart
Bob the Omnipotent - Ecthelion III
mysterious Speed Force energy - Flash
Blade - Sami
Elias - Bartimaeus
Insanus - Darkness Ascendant
Kel - randuir
Silver Feather - Roadwalker
Majestic Eagle - Majestic
Ati - Drake Marshall
Sol - Eternum
Ad - DroughtBringer
Elithanathile - Elithanathile
Amarthion - Elenion
Aed - Aonar Faileas
Bortholomew the Blind - Bort
Nocturnal Flying Mammal Man - Grumpy Dula
Bugg - Clanky
Magestar - Magestar
Fess - Arinian
The Lemon - Lemonelen
Caramelion - Megasif
Bri - Brightness Radiant
Olbar - The Young Bard
Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half - Ornstein

 

The turn will end in 48 hours:

Edited September 20, 2017 by AliasSheep

[DeTess she/her]

Okay, so we've got an apocalypse headed for us at turn 7. I'm quickly checking whether it's possible to recall this rule again (though I assume it is). I'm also going to put in a rule that limits the total amount of Brotherhood converts to 3, unless people have some other opinions about the specific numbers?

Finally, Kel, I've been boring for quite long enough.

[Steeldancer he/him]

I hope I'm no longer starving now that I got some more pancakes. Sorry for not being around. Craziness in life. Might remain boring for now. Unless anyone wants to get married?

[Jondesu he/him]

2 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I hope I'm no longer starving now that I got some more pancakes. Sorry for not being around. Craziness in life. Might remain boring for now. Unless anyone wants to get married?

Polygamy isn't allowed in this game, so I can't do that, sorry. 

[Hemalurgic Headshot he/him]

HH. I will be boring no more! I was Starved last cycle, so I couldn't do much at all.

I really don't know what we should use the lynch for anymore. There isn't anyone that is really publicly scorned right now, and I'm confused who the enemy is supposed to be.

[Sart he/him]

"Now I have become death, destroyer of worlds." That's what Non Sequitor was thinking. He wondered if there were other things he could think about. The meteor in the sky was very important. Sart was very important. He nodded as the flames began to spout from the sky.

[Aonar he/him]

That activity, though.  Five posts in over a day. Well, I was both boring and starved, now I think I'm just boring (if not, I'll lose a life. Yay? ). I'd... really like to stay boring, but I feel obligated to retain some degree of activity in this game, and that's easier if I can do things. >> That guy who is probably me. 

[Sart he/him]

In retrospect, the boring mechanic is rather onerous. I considered adding in a, "if you are boring for 2 or more cycles, lose a life" clause, but I worried that would make it too annoying.

[Lemonelon]

lemon will not be boring.

Any ideas with what happened with the shooting last cycle?

[Jondesu he/him]

5 hours ago, Lemonelon said:

lemon will not be boring.

Any ideas with what happened with the shooting last cycle?

I’m curious too, especially since the guns were my idea. It seemed like that shooting wasn’t valid, since it’s an action and actions don’t work against people who are Boring, but I want to know if @AliasSheep agrees, and whether that gun is considered used even though it wouldn’t have worked.

And since this is a very quick edit, Jondesu shall remain not Boring.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Jondesu

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Whilst I remember, I'd rather not be boring. Orlok.

[little wilson she/her]

Wilson will not be boring.