Quick Fix Game 25: A Sundered Sky

[Stick. she/her]

Apologies for the messiness of this post in advance because unfortunately, I don't have access to a laptop until after rollover, so I'm going to have to do this on my phone. :/

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

How many elims are there in this game?

4, maybe 5. But *probably* 4.

 

So now, looks like Ecth is up for the lynch. I already expressed my suspicions on him, but I was hesitant to vote because 1) lack of solid reasoning and 2) Ecth always seems to die early in games so I felt bad about voting on him. 

I'm not really feeling the Flash lynch...I would expect Flash to be a little more reactive to the votes on him were he elim. But yeah I haven't really developed a read on him till now.

I will admit that I've been getting elim vibes from Magasif, though. I'd support an Ecth lynch, I think. But I want to consider megasif too.

This post almost got deleted like three times while I typed. >> mobiles...

[Elenion he/him]

1 hour ago, winter devotion said:

Yeah jeez I think there's four people whose names start with E and it's making it near impossible to figure out who's who. 

You should have seen MR15: Elenion, Ecthelion, Elbereth, Eramit, Master Elodin, Emilylime, and Eolhondras were all playing; over a third of the players' names started with E. And then people started shortening my name to El, but that was Elbereth's nickname, so that made it even worse. We finally got it all figured out: I'm Len, Ecthelion is Ecth, and Elbereth is El.

@Eternum What should we call you? Your full name? Et? Eter?

 

As I said before, I'm leading slightly elimmy about Ecth because of the way he phrased his alignment. But since the bandwagon is already in full swing, I'm going to hold off my vote to ensure that if he's Truthless, I don't get attacked. Seeing as I've still got my vote... Jondesu. I'll move my vote to Ecth if the voting gets close. Jon said something back on page 2:

Quote

Who first asked someone to post their alignment, or posted it without being asked? I couldn’t quite tell the timeline, but that’s pointless for the village and can be helpful to the Elims, so it makes me suspicious.

Stick already mentioned this: the elims already know everyone's alignments. (Well, except the Truthless.) This post sounds to me like it's meant to prevent Rae's idea from accumulating too many village reads.

[Stick. she/her]

Isn't the truthless technically village, too?

[Arraenae]

15 hours ago, Eternum said:

DISCLAIMER:

To all whom it concerns, I won't be here for the next cycle and most of the other one, because I'll be out of town. My alignment is village, if anyone was gonna ask.

Anyway.

What's the plan here? We Europeans have a head start, it seems. There don't seem to be many clues, but the one we do have (Kenara getting murdered with a Shardblade wayyy faster than the eye can track) points towards Flash, as somebody else mentioned. I won't vote yet though, maybe there's something else.

Here starts an Eternum ISO. Eternum starts out putting joke suspicion on Flash.

14 hours ago, Eternum said:

Yeah, it was probably a joke Bard, and yeah it was probably a means of preventing us from finding out who it is, but we're Sanderfans. Overanalyzing is what we do. But I didn't cast my vote yet. We honestly don't know enough to be suspicious of anyone. Also, if you managed to lynch me Day 1 of my first game I'd hate you with a passion hotter than the centre of the Sun.

It was probably a joke? Eternum wrote that post himself, so he should know if he intended to write a joke or not.

Eternum says that he's new, but he seems familiar with some of the terminology and talks about having gut reads multiple times later. The above thing feels like he wants to remind people he's new so he can get some newbie lenience, which seems more likely for an elim to do.

14 hours ago, Eternum said:

Albion sighed as he walked around the two corpses now laid out on the ground. 2 assassinations in quick succession. What is going on here..?

"Certainly one way of beginning training, I suppose," he said, looking around. There were others studying the corpses near him, one of the ardents was kneeling on the ground near the two corpses, praying, and... Were those people doing push-ups?

Almighty above, how green are these people?

He grimaced, debating whether to try and call for order or let the Highprince try first. The Highprince did have more authority. People knew him, and they were more likely to listen to him, so he just decided to walk around a bit more.

As far as disasters go, this was beginning to seem like a big one.

RP, NAI.

10 hours ago, Eternum said:

@Jondesu Arraenae was the first person to ask role/alignment, and that is kind of suspicious. If anyone else has any other ideas/thoughts, share them. It's only helpful.

Okay, so Eternum says I'm probably elim. He conflates role and alignment.

10 hours ago, Eternum said:

They know alignment, Stick, not role, and knowing roles is useful.

The person I mentioned also asked for role, if I'm not remembering wrong.

EDIT: Nevermind, I was mistaken. Nae might just be village.

So here Eternum says that I might be village.

9 hours ago, Eternum said:

I'd also like to mention that Megasif asked for Arraenae's role, which is kind of suspicious.

And here Eternum says that Megasif might be elim. Before, he said that there weren't enough clues to determine alignment, but all of the things he's drawing from happened before that post where he said "we honestly don't know enough to be suspicious of anyone." He's not very consistent here.

3 hours ago, Eternum said:

Hi, I'm back. I was on a trip, whatever, that's not relevant. I'd like to clear things up a bit.

First off, I'd like to apologize. I realize I must have seemed kind of off, and it's because I was being a bit too paranoid. It's my first SE game, and I don't wanna die .

Just to clear things up, I'm convinced Rae is village, or at least not an immediate threat. I still don't trust Sif lol, but hey my opinion can change. We still don't know anything about anyone.

I'll keep withholding my vote, mainly because I don't know who to vote for

So he still says that Megasif is null ir elim and that I'm village.

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

I'm surprised I wasn't included, seeing as people seemed to think I was elim. Also, Stink, you've been pretty neutral in the discussion. No risks taken, no wild guesses. That's probably why you weren't included lol. I have a gut feeling that you're village, and I generally trust my instincts lol. I think I'll trust you, for now. Or, rather, keep you at arm's length. I think that trusting anyone this early on is a bad idea lol.

Eternum seems kind of defensive here. I know that some people expressed suspicion on him, but it's like he's expecting people to dogpile on him. I think that's slightly more likely as an elim than as a villager.

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

Yeah, good point, I guess. IDK.

Anyway, I really need to think of who to vote.

Also, all y'all lurking, you should really post or something. Your silence isn't helping my paranoia xD

I wonder what he's paranoid about...

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

Or, perhaps, Stink's playing us all for fools and he IS actually an elim!

But really, jokes aside, Rae's observation has made me slightly suspicious of Jebus and Flash, and I was already somewhat suspicious of Sif lol, but I will admit Sif can easily be a part of the village and I'm just being dumb. Eh. We'll wait and see.

How many elims are there in this game?

I feel like if I stare at this long enough, I should be able to pull out some Stick/Eternum connection, whether w/w or v/v or w/v or v/w. I think that effort would be better spent doing something else though.

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

The IKYK Truthless thing Winter did was smart imo. Interesting. I don't think they're Elim. I might be wrong, but again, I have a gut feeling about them.

So Eternum puts Winter as village.

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

also.. I'm on mobile. How do I change the color of the text?

NAI.

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

It took me a bit to realize you were talking to me, Winter. Lol. You're welcome?

EDIT: Thanks, @Arraenae!

NAI.

1 hour ago, Eternum said:

So, I think I'll actually vote for Flash because I feel like Rae makes a good point. IDK, but since we've established that Rae is village, I think I'll trust them. (her? Idk.)

This post sticks out a lot. When was it ever established that I was village? It's not even a mostly consensus read among people inthread. It reads like he already knows everyone's alignments.

1 hour ago, Eternum said:

Yeah, this'll get confusing xD

NAI.

After going through all of these, I think Eternum is null or elim. He has a few questionable posts that don't seem very villagery. It is his first game, though, so I won't vote to lynch him C1.

[Stick. she/her]

Megasif's posts ta-da!

Quote

Got village. Don't have many thoughts yet. Except that an elim has likely posted already.

While we're on the topic, we haven't seen your thoughts or role yet. Hmm.

Nothing weird about this post, except the highlighted bit. I believe Orlok already brought it up, but yeah this is odd why'd you say that/what made you say that? The players who'd posted before this post are: Ecth, PK, Rae, Sami, BB, Orlok and Lopen, in that order.

Quote

 

bleh ignore this random quote box that may or may not appear in the actual post I have no idea.

Quote

 

Gah quite boxes not working so here's his next post:

"Well, I'm not certain but since it's an elim team we're talking about, I'd think it would be an idea for at least one to make an appearance early and try to get on the village side.

I could be totally wrong. I haven't played enough yet (3rd game). Just a thought that occurred so I mentioned it.

And I'm guessing no one's going to say they're an elim right "

I want to believe this explanation, but I can't help but think that maybe he *knew* that there was an elim online early in the game like timezones are a thing and its entirely possible that none of the elims were online at the beginning of the game.

Next one:

"So the deal with truthless: does the game end if he is lynched?

And when is rollover? 

Current feelings: Eternum seems a bit elim like. There was a bit of suspicions thrown about by him on both sides of an argument earlier. I'll go back now and see if I can quote it in."

Okay so eternum/megasif both elims is probably not a thing. Something to keep in mind, I guess.

"In reply to Rae, I just used alignment and role as intechangeable, which I now realize I shouldn't have.

I also wasn't so much adding to rae's question as I was asking why he hadn't answered the question himself yet."

Okay. NAI.

"So went back and checked and the main reason I was suspicious of Eternum actually doesn't exist. I think I misread their post. And the other reason might be because they were suspicious of me. Still not totally cleared for me but not as suspicious atm."

So this *kind of* makes me lean village. Hm. What did you misread in Eternum's post that made you suspicious?

"You know what, you're actually right about this 

Eternum seems more villagery by the post. Rae's village lean. Winter makes a good point about stink 'whining about being ignored'. But Winter herself I'm not trusting atm. As a villager that is. "

What makes you suspicious of winter?

"I'm leaning towards ect being an elim. So for now ecthelion"

Why do you lean elim? Is it just gut? The alignment phrasing thing?

overall, I wouldn't want to have a megasif lynch happen this cycle. They kind of seem village but I'm wary of them.

ninjad-but-not-exactly-ninjad by Rae's ISO . I'll read that now.

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by _Stick_

[Yitzi2]

Sorry I haven't gotten on before; I started a new job today.

One thing that I don't think was mentioned about the start-of-game kill: Wilson was an Elsecaller, and the Elsecaller special ability is an extra life.  So that sort of rules out any options other than "special role" and "player realized last-minute they wouldn't be able to make it and Elbereth decided to have some fun".

I also find it interesting that Winter said he'd be alignment-scanned, seeing as this game has no alignment scanners.  (Not sure if that was mentioned before.)

[Stick. she/her]

You bring up interesting points, Rae, but could you elaborate on this?

24 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

I feel like if I stare at this long enough, I should be able to pull out some Stick/Eternum connection, whether w/w or v/v or w/v or v/w. I think that effort would be better spent doing something else though.

Why specifically me?

6 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

One thing that I don't think was mentioned about the start-of-game kill: Wilson was an Elsecaller, and the Elsecaller special ability is an extra life.  So that sort of rules out any options other than "special role" and "player realized last-minute they wouldn't be able to make it and Elbereth decided to have some fun".

Wilson was an elsecaller? Huh? 

[Yitzi2]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

Wilson was an elsecaller? Huh? 

Read the first post more carefully.

[Megasif he/him]

13 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

So this *kind of* makes me lean village. Hm. What did you misread in Eternum's post that made you suspicious?

If you look at rae's ISO of Eternum. Towards the beginning when Eternum's is reading me and rae and then switching really fast in our reads. Or at least rae's. Calling them village. It seemed suspicious but I later brushed it off.

13 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

What makes you suspicious of winter?

All the stuff about truthless. I don't feel I can trust them yet. But then that goes for almost all the players.

13 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Why do you lean elim? Is it just gut? The alignment phrasing thing?

Well I've been paying attention to other players' posts and this one seems the most evidence based in my opinion. So I'll keep my vote here for now.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Megasif

[Stick. she/her]

2 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

Read the first post more carefully.

Bbuuttt Wilson isn't a player so it shouldn't matter?

I'm confused halp

2 minutes ago, Megasif said:

If you look at rae's ISO of Eternum. Towards the beginning when Eternum's is ready me and rae and then switching really fast in our reads. Or at least rae's. Calling them village. It seemed suspicious but I later brushed it off.

All the stuff about truthless. I don't feel I csn trust them yet. But then that goes for almost all the players.

Well I've been paying attention to other players' posts and this one seems the most evidence based in my opinion. So I'll keep my vote here for now.

Fair.

[Yitzi2]

2 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Bbuuttt Wilson isn't a player so it shouldn't matter?

This is a good point.  Ok, so then it's definitely just El making things interesting.

[Sami she/her]

Wow just woke up and missed the big discussion. Confuzzling. I'm really bad at the whole "feeling suspicious and getting a read on this person" thing. 

[Megasif he/him]

1 minute ago, Sami said:

Wow just woke up and missed the big discussion. Confuzzling. I'm really bad at the whole "feeling suspicious and getting a read on this person" thing. 

Don't worry. You're not alone. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Megasif

[Stick. she/her]

42 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

I wouldn't put it past our Gm to have an eliminator Truthless just because.

I somehow missed this earlier and am just now seeing this and wow what an interesting possibility. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Ok so here are my thoughts after rereading the thread. 

The way Eternum hopped on to vote me sets off so many alarm bells. However I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt, I don't want to lynch a brand new player his first cycle, even if he is an elim. I was an elim my very first game, so I can sympathize if he's evil. If he's still suspicious in a few cycles or so, I'll be more aggressive towards him. 

Stink is feeling lonely. Here's a vote stink to let you know you aren't forgotten. (I will retract that vote lol)

[Arraenae]

19 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

You bring up interesting points, Rae, but could you elaborate on this?

Why specifically me?

Wilson was an elsecaller? Huh? 

It's somehing I've seen MU players doing but not something I think I can do. Just something I noted.

[Stick. she/her]

8 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

It's somehing I've seen MU players doing but not something I think I can do. Just something I noted.

I see 

I'm going to sleep so Ecthelion I guess.

[Sami she/her]

What's so suspicious about Ecthellion again?

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Well. Some general comments on people:

 

I do think Ecthelion's behavior was marginally suspect (after all, to my knowledge I am the first one to have pointed it out).

But I don't believe it was the most suspicious behavior so far in this game. And I think Ecth's explanation seems reasonable, for now.

I don't think I support lynching Ecthelion right now. But he's worth keeping an eye on, definitely.

 

Not sure what to think of Flash yet. I agree that he seemed a little on the defensive side. That seems reasonably lynchworthy. Almighty knows we've had worse reasons for D1 lynches.

 

My primary suspicion is still on Stick for now though, and with it my vote. The comment I initially cited, as well as how he responded to my vote, both seemed off.

 

Oh also, @winter devotion, I should like to encourage you to cast a vote. You have repeatedly voiced suspicion about players, so your reluctance to vote certainly isn't for lack of a good solid hunch. Are you trying to avoid drawing attention to yourself?

[Elbereth she/her]

24 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

This is a good point.  Ok, so then it's definitely just El making things interesting.

Wilson never plays QFs.  But it's a bit of a tradition to kill non-players for the first writeup. And Kenara was a perfect squadleader, and I wanted to kill her. So I asked Wilson if I could.  

She's an Elsecaller because this is at least the third time Kenara's died (LG20 and MR... 4, I think) and she seems to manage to come back just fine. Elsecaller works pretty well for that, hmm? 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Vote Talley: 

Jondesu (1) Elenion

Flash (3) PK, Eternum, Arranae

Megasif (1) Jondesu

Stick (2) Arinian, Drake

Ecth (5) stink, roadrunner, megasif, stick, flash

I might have something wrong in there. And stink ecth  . Out of self preservation. 

I have already explained myself drake. I had a late night and was a bit testy this morning. But since Hawaii day at work, I'm feeling a lot better 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Flash
Found the mistake (s)!

[Orlok Tsubodai]

18 hours ago, Megasif said:

Got village. Don't have many thoughts yet. Except that an elim has likely posted already.

While we're on the topic, we haven't seen your thoughts or role yet. Hmm.

@Megasif, I've already called out your point about believing an eliminator had already posted. Further thoughts: I don't see why this is advantageous at all from a villager's perspective, but as an eliminator it creates an IKYK when you die. It would force us to consider whether you knew that there was one above you, and were trying to dissuade us from considering players posting before this because clearly you wouldn't say it if there were, or whether you knew there weren't and wanted us to doubt that.

Would you also please explain why you asked Rae her role? Asking for alignment doesn't help the eliminators, and gives the village useful information on how people answer the question - do they avoid answering, or act in an overzealous manner? Asking for roles on the other hand doesn't really help the village - we don't need to know who the soothers are, for instance, but helps the eliminators pick targets. Even if she doesn't have a role, you narrow the search space for the eliminators.

18 hours ago, Arraenae said:

Okay. I got village (again, I havn't been an elim for maybe a year or so). Currently I'm waiting for more thread discussion to pop up. I'm kind of bored, so I'm prodding people to talk. I saw someone asking similar questions in the MU game, and I figured that it's better than awkward silence where everyone is waiting for others to speak so we have something to analyze.

You're not getting my role out of me this early.

EDIT: @Orlok Tsubodai, I see you viewing the thread too. You said you wanted discussion, so what are your thoughts, alignment, and feelings about getting that alignment?

EDIT 2: @Paranoid King, you're here, so why don't you do that too?

@Arraenae, looking back on this, are you claiming to have a role? I don't see why you'd do this as a villager, but might potentially feel safer doing so as an eliminator.

17 hours ago, Ecthelion III said:

Rae outed me for hanging out on Discord She asked me my alignment, which is Squire, though of course I'd say that whichever I was. Also how I feel about it...pretty good, I guess?

*ba dum tss

This post has been castigated a lot, with a great many players questioning why @Ecthelion III went to the effort of including the village alignment name. Personally, I don't think that this is too suspicious, and it reminds me too much of the Ripple debacle. It's just as important for villagers to make it obvious that they're village as it is for people to try to find actual eliminators - every cleared villager makes the list of potential eliminators smaller. It's entirely possible that Ecthelion was anxious to make it obvious that he was a villager,or indeed, that he merely felt like putting the faction name in because he was engaged in the setting.

Ecthelion has also died early in a number of games recently. Having had this happen to myself (I had a string of ~7 consecutive games in which I died C1-2), I know it's not fun, and don't think we should have Ecthelion die early again over something as small as this.

17 hours ago, Megasif said:

Well, I'm not certain but since it's an elim team we're talking about, I'd think it would be an idea for at least one to make an appearance early and try to get on the village side.

I could be totally wrong. I haven't played enough yet (3rd game). Just a thought that occurred so I mentioned it.

And I'm guessing no one's going to say they're an elim right 

  Reveal hidden contents

Okay. I got village (again, I havn't been an elim for maybe a year or so). Currently I'm waiting for more thread discussion to pop up. I'm kind of bored, so I'm prodding people to talk. I saw someone asking similar questions in the MU game, and I figured that it's better than awkward silence where everyone is waiting for others to speak so we have something to analyze.

That makes sense.

 

Messed up on the editing cuz phone.

@Megasif, time zones, and the fact that it was very early morning for Europe, and late at night for out of the Americas mean that most of an aliminator team wouldn't have seen the game go up. Are you really suggesting that all the eliminators were online, and decided that one of them should post early? Why wouldn't they all try to get on the village side, when they came online?

17 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

If it's not obvious already, I'm trying to do as much of my posts in RP as possible. Then again, I've said that before, and have failed miserably. If past records are anything to go by, I'll probably swap to analysis on posts once I actually have anything to go on, because RP'ing reasons why someone should be lynched is just hard.

Secondly, I'm a villager, before anyone asks, though frankly I don't see the point in asking/answering, because I can't think of a reason, especially on Day 1, why people wouldn't claim village.

Thirdly, the Truthless. I can't think of a way Melonin would know theres one among us, so I'll post about them here: We need to be wary for the Truthless, but not so wary that we allow ourselves to avoid lynches until the mafia have overtaken us. For that reason, I'm advocating that we still try to lynch someone every day, including Day 1, despite the Truthless, because even false lynches provide us information - who voted for them, who nearly got lynched but didn't due to a last minute voteswap, etc., is generally the best and most accurate way of catching Eliminators that I've found, at least for those people like me that have horrible gut reads.

I'd love to hear all your comments on my advice, and why you agree/disagree, or just where you need more explanation or convincing. If my attempt at RP'ing recommendations was just confusing, here's a plain text version:

Stonewards, Dustbringers: We need to know you exist, but claiming to somebody in particular is probably a bad idea at this stage. I recommend you do your manipulations in such a manner this cycle that is does not influence the result of the lynch, so we know you exist and can offer recommendations in thread without wasting our time. I'll do a vote tally shortly before the cycle ends and compare it with after so we know how many of both of you there are.
Lightweavers: Just put in an action every cycle. It can't hurt, and is very likely to help the more actions you put in. Whatever you do, please don't go inactive.

Reads: Nothing yet. I don't understand why PK, Roadrunner and Eternum are suspicious of Flash - to me, the Shardblade striking Kenara down faster than the eye could see was just a way of preventing us from finding a Skybreaker straight out. I think PK meant it as a joke, but I'm slightly suspicious of Roadrunner and Eternum. Roadrunner already has a vote on him - though I might swap my vote at the end of the cycle if he hasn't responded or if I don't see anything else I find suspicious, and with Eternum, I'm nowhere close enough to suspicious to knock him out on Day 1 of his first game, though.  For now, I'm not going to vote - mainly because I've RP'ed already and I want to get this stuff out before I make another RP on Melonin voting, but I intend to vote before I go to bed tonight (so in the next 5-6 hours or so - it will be there before all the Americans get up tomorrow morning, anyway.)

EDIT: Gah. I forgot the thing I was perhaps most excited to talk about - whether El is trolling us with secret roles and alignments. I have been getting weird vibes from this game, even when she said there weren't any secret roles/alignments in the game. I'd considered all the ways she could be trolling us with the Truthless - she could have multiple Truthless in the game, or none, and just watch how we react to a phantom threat. Strangely, I'm getting the same vibe from her swap from a "There are no secret roles/alignments" to a PAFO - my read on it right now is that she might be trying to make us all ridiculously paranoid in this game without good reason. Joe did something similar in his QF a while back - made everyone think there was *something* going on, when there really wasn't. Then again, there might be - I'm not saying we should rule out any options, just consider the possibility. So, my recommendation with El's PAFO is to be cautious, but not to the extent where it impairs your judgement, if possible.

@The Young Bard, why do you think knowing the number of each role helps the village? They're almost certainly all in the game, so you can give advice regardless. Asking for the number seems like a very eliminator thing to do, ascertaining the degree of safety they need in the end game, etc.

16 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Wew two deaths.
Don't know how I feel about that, I'm sort of out of everything, don't know what is going on...also haven't played SE in a while so forgive me for being a bit lost, lets see how long it takes for me to get into my gears.

I'm kinda dissapointed with my role  Just a New Recruit

@Darkness Ascendant, if you hadn't already worked it out, the two kills are flavour only. El killed Hael because Alv wanted his head, and I imagine Kenara had been the planned death at the start of the game, to have the setting be the chaos.

I'd also ask why you thought claiming as a roleless was a good idea? If you're claiming honestly, you make it much easier for the eliminators to find the actual roles that they need to deal with.

12 hours ago, Jondesu said:

As usual, the QF shows it’s tendency to gather tons of posts before I even see the thread. 

Who first asked someone to post their alignment, or posted it without being asked? I couldn’t quite tell the timeline, but that’s pointless for the village and can be helpful to the Elims, so it makes me suspicious. I’ve asked people in PMs before, but only jokingly and never telling them to post it in the thread.

My vote will depend on what I can find out about that. Also, I haven’t even opened my role PM so I couldn’t asked the question even if I wanted. 

I disagree that its pointless for the village - as I set out above, it puts players on the spot - particularly articulating how they feel about their alignment. Eliminators will have to fabricate an answer, which provides opportunities for slipping up.

12 hours ago, STINK said:

This statement looks wrong, because the discussion it makes isn't a good discussion. 

First premise:

All discussions are not good discussions.

No one should disagree with that, right? If I talk about the qualities of potatoes while you all talk about the game, my discussion is clearly less useful.

Now we look at what discussion has spawned from Rae's question. Was it that maybe the people answering Village maybe aren't village? Of course not, everyone's gonna answer that way no matter what. 

Instead, the discussion leads to whether Rae is good or not, and if someone asks her that then the cycle goes on forever. Discussion from this question is pretty bad for the village, yes, but I do see some use in it.

As a villager, asking this question leads to no worries because you're village and what can go wrong. However, if you're an elim then you will worry about people discussing your alignment back at you, and probably won't ask the question.

So my second premise that I'll likely hold on to for the rest of the game is:

Rae is town.

And I'm likely gonna suspect those who all just said Rae is sus for asking. LogicSTINK out.

I don't disagree with your belief that Rae is town, or that not all discussion is good discussion, but don't think that Rae's actions were necessarily unhelpful. It would have been much better if she had asked follow up questions exploring players answers, increasing the pressure on them, but I don't think the answer to the question rae puts is always NAI.

11 hours ago, Jondesu said:

Mostly because it causes confusion and chaos, which Elims can thrive on.  They can hide more easily when everyone's asserting their alignment and role.  Plus, as noted, they usually really want to find out people's roles.

I agree that it sounds like Rae probably meant it as harmless fun, but Sif strikes me as suspicious by adding to it.

@Jondesu, Megasif didn't really add to it, so much as ask Rae the question she was asking everyone else, which I think is entirely fair. I'd been planing on it myself before Megasif did so. 

9 hours ago, winter devotion said:

But let's consider the chance I'm lying and that I actually am Truthless. This is a suspicious for a Truthless because people will tend not to vote for someone they think will get them killed. Therefor, I could be an eliminator and using reverse pyschology to get people to not vote for me. However that in turn is obvious and could lead me to being rolescanned.

The fact I am a Truthless would be revealed, unless, of course, the role scan volunteer was an Eliminator as well or just lying. Anyone who reveals their status as a role scanner is also at risk for being eliminator killed. An eliminator would not want to kill someone they suspect of being Truthless because that means villagers won't have a chance for being mass killed by a wrong lynch. The Truthless in this case being hypothetically me.

How do we know the Truthless isn't also an eliminator? We don't. Ergo, both me being an eliminator and Truthless could be true. But would an eliminator voluntarily bring suspicion upon themself this early in the game? 

Now for something entirely different. What if there is a secret survival role? I highly doubt there is, but let's assume I am this survival role for the sake of this discussion. Faking a Truthless reveal and then taking it back would value me, as villagers would be cautious to lynch me in case I wasn't lying the first time, and for the same reason as before, Eliminators would hesitate. If they have a role scan, they could use it on me and kill someone else this turn. 

But if I am a survival role, which they would find out by role scanning me, they have nothing to lose by PMing me and making me a de facto eliminator. I wouldn't want to tell the thread who they were because they would kill me the next cycle as revenge, and there's usually a few left surviving villagers when the eliminators win. 

The way to confirm I'm not any of these things (Eliminator, Survival, or Truthless) is by A. Rolescanning me B. Lynching me or C. Trusting me when I say I'm a vanilla villager. A means a role scanner reveals themself or risks having multiple people waste their turns on scanning me. Or a role scanner PMs me telling me what they are. However if I am an Eliminator, I would just use that to kill them. They could tell someone else what they're doing and use that as insurance in case I am an Eliminator and kill them, but they could accidentally PM an actual eliminator. They could scan me and then tell the thread what they did the next day, but that risks multiple people scanning the same person.

B. I clearly don't want to be lynched and the chance of me being a Truthless makes it rather risky. Go ahead and lynch me, but anyone who votes on me is risking it. Is the 1/4 chance I'm an Eliminator worth it? If I was a secret survival role, would I be encouraging this? 

C. Trusting me is stupid. This is Sanderson Elimination. 

I'd say lynching me as of now is a risky choice at best, but having laid out most of what I can figure about my own position-- feel free to add your own two cents-- you can chose.

 

Edit: @Paranoid King What would be the merit of concealing the fact I'm Truthless after admitting it? I don't have a little brother (Outside of injokes with a certain group of friends), and unfortunately my one older sibling is not interested in Brandon Sanderson. 

The first thing to highlight, @winter devotion, is that there isn't a role scanner in the game. I think this lack of knowledge alone is the most interesting part of the post. Had you actually been an eliminator or Truthless trying a gambit, I think you'd have checked the rules more carefully. 

Believing you to be a regular villager, I'm not sure why you consider this post helpful. You've said that it was a gambit to keep yourself alive, as I recall. I'd question why you think this is worth generating a great deal of noise in the thread, obscuring useful discussion. SE is a team game. As villagers, sometimes the best move to make is to allow yourself to be lynched, as the information revealed from it clears or casts suspicion on players. Keeping yourself alive to the detriment of the village, as a villager, really isn't helpful.

8 hours ago, Elithanathile said:

Well stuff seems to have happened, hasn't it.

Also waitwhat? Kasana died by a shardblade? Well I missed that part then. I thought she'd gotten killed by some kind of assassin spren or poison or something. I knew her eyes turned smoky, but I figured if something had severed her bond to her shardplate, like a voidspren or the black orb thingy, it would do that. So it was an actual shardblade?

Maybe Daerin (First dead guy's name, whatever it was,) isn't actually dead, and when she tried to help him he stabbed her from a position nobody could see? Can we do an autopsy or check on Daerin's body?

Minorly suspicious of Winter, STINK, and Ecthelion. No voting for now though.

@Elithanathile, would you care to explain why you're suspicious of Winter, Stink, and Ecthelion. Knowing your reads is useful, but knowing the thought process behind your reads helps us both clear you as a villager, and consider whether your suspicions merit supporting.

7 hours ago, Megasif said:

So went back and checked and the main reason I was suspicious of Eternum actually doesn't exist. I think I misread their post. And the other reason might be because they were suspicious of me. Still not totally cleared for me but not as suspicious atm.

This post makes me lean village on @Megasif. It's certainly possible that as an eliminator he made a mistake about the player he was trying to cast suspicion on, but in my experience eliminators tend to be more careful, and this looks to me like progression of thought, which we're unlikely to see from an eliminator. 

6 hours ago, winter devotion said:

I agree with that analysis and I too get that read, but I'm not gonna vote for real just yet. 

@winter devotion, why won't you vote? Expressing a suspicion and not following it through always strikes me as trying to encourage a lynch without taking the blame when it comes out as a villager.

6 hours ago, Elenion said:

OK guys I'm here. Tired, but here.

First off, I'm reading slightly village on Rae's alignment questions. I'm reading slightly evil on Ecth's response, but he sent me a PM about that that's making me read less evil than I was before.

Right now I'm not going to make a role-claim, and I'm not planning on claiming at all this game, because it would either reveal me to have a good role or narrow the field for who has the good roles.

@Elenion, I'd Ike to thank you for speaking sense about role claims, and ask you why you think Ecthelion's response is evil? You know him well, clearly, and have also played a lot of games with him. Do you think it's really an action likely to come from an eliminator?

5 hours ago, winter devotion said:

Well, analysis is the wrong word but that feels like something I'd do as evil too. The nudge nudge, of course I'm not though. I'm not gonna vote for you cause of that, but I'm keeping an eye on you.

@winter devotion, I'd also call out that it seems like you were looking for something to jump onto very quickly, seeming supportive without exposing yourself through any thoughts. I'm still leaning village on you, due to your slip up in the attempted IKYK, but would definitely like you to justify and back your positions more thoroughly in the future. 

5 hours ago, Magestar said:

Not loving the claims going on here.  I'm actually kinda suspicious of the people who are like, 'Yep, I'm village.'  It just seems odd to me.  I know I'm not going to claim yet, if at all.

Besides that... A little bit suspicious of Winter, but I haven't seen them play in a while.  Stink a little bit but not more than usual I guess.  No real village reads this early.  

Gonna be a little bit quiet today, should be more active tomorrow, and then I should be very active starting on Saturday.  Hopefully I'll post again tonight but not sure, having a busy day.

@Magestar, I'm not sure what else you expected to happen when Rae asked people directly whether they were village? It was interesting to observe players' responses, if not useful this time, and avoiding the question as villagers would have created a whole mess of unnecessary suspicion. I'm not sure there's really a parallel to claiming a role, which is what you seem to be implying when you say you won't claim, unless you're telling us that you won't claim as a villager.... 

5 hours ago, Eternum said:

Hi, I'm back. I was on a trip, whatever, that's not relevant. I'd like to clear things up a bit.

First off, I'd like to apologize. I realize I must have seemed kind of off, and it's because I was being a bit too paranoid. It's my first SE game, and I don't wanna die .

Just to clear things up, I'm convinced Rae is village, or at least not an immediate threat. I still don't trust Sif lol, but hey my opinion can change. We still don't know anything about anyone.

I'll keep withholding my vote, mainly because I don't know who to vote for

@Eternum, would you tell us why you think Rae is village, and why you don't trust Megasif?

5 hours ago, STINK said:

Hey Ecth.

Guess who doesn't even really like schemes? (answer: this guy)

Guess who really doesn't like schemes that he's not involved in but finds out about after? (answer: still this guy)

Guess who really really doesn't like schemes that people make vague references to for no real reason? 

You guessed it, this guy. 

@STINK, if you're voting on Ecthelion for a scheme of his, which is what you seem to be implying, would you mind explains the situation a little more to the thread?

@Ecthelion III, given you might die today, would you care to explain what Stink is talking about?

5 hours ago, Arraenae said:

@All, I asked about alignment and thoughts about it because there was almost nothing inthread and I was bored. I saw a player in one of thr MU games do it.

Reads:

I have a slight village read on Lopen for putting out his reads so early. It seems like he's actually making an effort to solve the game.

Winter feels very, very slightly village. I feel like they were just trying to be clever by making an IKYK. I doubt they're Truthless.

Flash felt slightly OMGUSsy when responding to PK.

When Stick joked around about her alignment, it felt slightly elimy or NAI.

Something that stood out to me was when Overlordjebus said that DA was being slightly accusatory. It feels like he could be trying to discredit DA's read without overtly defending Flash. So, Flash.

@Arraenae, would you explain your last line of logic there to me? It seems to me that you're voting on Flash because you think someone else is attacking someone's read on him. I'm not sure I follow why this makes Flash evil - it's a perfectly normal thing to do to attack an unsubstantiated read. If you're suspicious of Flash because you think evil!Overlordjebus defended him, why not vote on Overlordjebus, and establish whether or not your theory is right?

4 hours ago, Roadwalker said:

This is probably the last time I will be on for a while, I have no idea if the place I am going has internet, and if it does I will be working off of a tiny screen, so I might be able to read the thread but not really post, at least until Sunday.

winter gets my vote for her whole IKYK about the truthless.

etc. etc. I doubt I will be able to remove this, unfortunately.

Catch yalater.

@Roadwalker, what about the IKYK with the Truthless made you think Winter was evil? You clearly think it warranted a vote, yet didn't call them out on her mistaken belief that there was a scanner. Why did you decide not to do so? If you didn't realise, then did you really read their post carefully enough to warrant a vote? Right now, it looks a little like you were trying to find an excuse to vote.

4 hours ago, Roadwalker said:

Actually I think I will change my vote from winter to ecthelion for the slip-up with the squire, I got my alignment highlighted in green in my pm, and I assume everyone else did, which leaves absolutely no reason why ecth would say Squire.

@Roadwalker, would you also explain why you changed your mind on Winter? Do you still consider her suspicious?

I'm not sure why you're suing such hyperbole when you say that you see "absolutely no reason why Ecth would say Squire". Did you really consider his actions? I brought up a number of reasons earlier in my post, and my list isn't exhaustive. For now, I'll put my vote on Roadwalker.

4 hours ago, Eternum said:

So, I think I'll actually vote for Flash because I feel like Rae makes a good point. IDK, but since we've established that Rae is village, I think I'll trust them. (her? Idk.)

@Eternum, which point of Rae's do you think justified the vote on Flash? Her argument about Overlordjebus seems very tenuous to me. It's also worth saying that confirmed village does not mean confirmed right. Following Rae merely because you think she's village both reduces the critical thought available to the village, means that if Rae's manipulated, the whole village is vulnerable, and isn't really a solution to increasing our effectiveness at finding eliminators.

3 hours ago, Megasif said:

I'm leaning towards ect being an elim. So for now ecthelion

@Megasif, would you mind justifying your vote on Ecthelion, please?

 

More multiquoting to follow on posts made since beginning this post, as well as some general thoughts, but I really don't want to lose what I've written again, so will post now.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Orlok Tsubodai

[Jondesu he/him]

2 hours ago, Elenion said:

As I said before, I'm leading slightly elimmy about Ecth because of the way he phrased his alignment. But since the bandwagon is already in full swing, I'm going to hold off my vote to ensure that if he's Truthless, I don't get attacked. Seeing as I've still got my vote... Jondesu. I'll move my vote to Ecth if the voting gets close. Jon said something back on page 2:

Stick already mentioned this: the elims already know everyone's alignments. (Well, except the Truthless.) This post sounds to me like it's meant to prevent Rae's idea from accumulating too many village reads.

Yeah…I almost don't feel a need to even respond to this. Stopping Rae's post from spiraling out of control was the point.  I've seen games where people yelled for role claim after role claim and it's just not helpful. I'm pretty much always going to have a dim view of asking people for role claims publicly.

[Yitzi2]

By the way, we probably should avoid having too many votes on one person, so that if he is Truthless, it doesn't wipe out half the village.  Vote manipulation by the elims is somewhat of a danger, but a 3 person lead would be plenty.

[Elbereth she/her]

27 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

I would vote Ecth, but I'm wondering-- what if Ecth has an actual role and was just lying because they didn't want to give it away. I'm torn. I'm suspicious of Rae, but nobody's voting for them so it's not like that'll do anything.  

You know what storm this Ecth

if they pop on and give another roleclaim because I doubt they're vanilla, then I'll try to remove it

but I'll be AFK for a bit

Do not edit votes into posts. I am marking them as I read through, and it is only by a great amount of luck that I caught this vote at all. If you're going to vote, put it in a new post, or I am very unlikely to catch it. 

Also, clarification: you do not need to retract votes in green. I will take the last vote each player has posted in the thread - again, I'm counting now rather than at the end, and am not checking to see if you've retracted previous votes.