The Art of Game Creation

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

First. It adds a drawback to the ability. They can move a vote around, but they lose their own.

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

First. It adds a drawback to the ability. They can move a vote around, but they lose their own.

Ah I see. Edited to comply.

[Straw he/him]

First of all, thanks for formatting. 

To clarify, The Spiked applies to all Inquisitors?

Is there a lynch minimum? What happens if the lynch is tied?

What’s the point of having the rolescan possibly fail? It’s not that strong compared to the other abilities.

Yeah, Pyro’s right about the vote manipulation. If you want resource and finance to be somewhat equal, you want them to cancel their own vote. Of course, another alternative, though less common, is letting them double a vote.

Hmm, very clever having TLR give an equivalent benefit to each faction. The main issue I see is him doing the following: scan three times C1 and pick village, then claim to all villagers he scans.  To fix this, I’d suggest doing a few things:

-Remove his alignment scan until he picks a side. This should prevent him giving such a huge benefit to the village compared to the elims.

-Think about making it so he’s always assigned to the losing side on C3, instead of letting him choose. This would hopefully remove the issue of him choosing villager C1 and then being their alignment scanner. It would also remove the issue of him tilting the game, since he’d always try to choose the winning side.

-Also, remove the deepness. No matter what alignment he is, getting revealed to the thread would end with him dying. Plus, making it random just isn’t fun for him. Survivor roles are hard enough.

I don’t see much point to having this be 24/24 instead of 48/0. There isn’t that much night stuff going on, so unless you feel strongly about it I’d recommend changing that. Lots of the actions are during the day anyway.

About GMing experience, there isn’t really any requirement? It’s advisable that you’ve played a decent number of games, but by the time you get around on the list, you should have a decent body of games played. It’s also probably advisable that you get a co-GM for your first game, to help if you have any issues with stuff. I’d be willing to help out, assuming I’m not super busy whenever you end up running this. Also, you can always ask if someone else needs a co-GM, so you can get a better look at how a game is run.

You do have to sign up to run a game, usually by pinging a mod with your request and the format of your game. You’ll then be added to the GM list. You also have to run the game by a committee of mods and a few other people once you think it’s ready. They’ll check to make sure it’s balanced and everything. 

[Mat he/him]

12 minutes ago, Straw said:

To clarify, The Spiked applies to all Inquisitors?

Yes. Is this a bad thing?

12 minutes ago, Straw said:

Is there a lynch minimum? What happens if the lynch is tied?

Uh, One I guess, to prevent there being no votes and a lynch. If there is a tie a random voted on player will be lynched

12 minutes ago, Straw said:

What’s the point of having the rolescan possibly fail? It’s not that strong compared to the other abilities.

Eh, I don't know. Maybe in my first draft it was stronger and I forgot to take that out? it might have originally been an alignment scan, or maybe I just like the probability mechanic...

12 minutes ago, Straw said:

-Remove his alignment scan until he picks a side. This should prevent him giving such a huge benefit to the village compared to the elims.

Oohhh this is smart. Okay.

12 minutes ago, Straw said:

-Also, remove the deepness. No matter what alignment he is, getting revealed to the thread would end with him dying. Plus, making it random just isn’t fun for him. Survivor roles are hard enough.

I don’t see much point to having this be 24/24 instead of 48/0. There isn’t that much night stuff going on, so unless you feel strongly about it I’d recommend changing that. Lots of the actions are during the day anyway.

Gotcha. Thanks for all the recommendations! 

[Straw he/him]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

Yes. Is this a bad thing?

Nope! Just checking.

[Coffeecat she/her]

On 6/15/2020 at 1:15 PM, Straw said:

About GMing experience, there isn’t really any requirement? It’s advisable that you’ve played a decent number of games, but by the time you get around on the list, you should have a decent body of games played. It’s also probably advisable that you get a co-GM for your first game, to help if you have any issues with stuff. I’d be willing to help out, assuming I’m not super busy whenever you end up running this. Also, you can always ask if someone else needs a co-GM, so you can get a better look at how a game is run

This sounds interesting, if anyone needs a co-gm, please consider me. i dont have that much time, but i am capable of writing a semi-good write up in about 20 min.

i need the experience!

thanks

[Mat he/him]

Agreeing with Silberfarben, that experience would be nice, though it would need to be post-July.

 

Edit: Here's a question I had about my game design. When the LR aligns himself with a faction, would he join the numbers? For example:

If he aligns himself with the Obligators, will the Inquisitors have to kill one more? (Can it end with this ratio: 2, 1, 2 or will the Inquisitors have to kill another villager/the LR?)

If he aligns himself with the Inquisitors can the Obligators win if the Lord Ruler is the only non-village left? (Can it end with this ratio: 4, 1, 0 or does the village have to kill the LR?)

Edited June 15, 2020 by Matrim's_Dice

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Am I on the list for co-GMing? I think I asked about it once, but can't recall what the outcome was...

[Straw he/him]

Just now, xinoehp512 said:

Am I on the list for co-GMing? I think I asked about it once, but can't recall what the outcome was...

There isn’t any list for co-GMing. You pretty much just ask around and see if anyone is interested.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Ah, I see.

Is anyone interested?  Or do I actually have to be social?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

There is a GM PM where requests usually go out. I think Fifth would have to add you to it (although it really is more for GMs than co-GMs, I think).

[Elbereth she/her]

Matrim, Xino, and Silber, you've all been added to the GM PM, where people will occasionally ask for co-GMs. 

There might also be a co-GM signup list going up somewhere soon, once I'm slightly less busy.  If it does, your names will be the first three on the list! 

[Straw he/him]

14 hours ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

Agreeing with Silberfarben, that experience would be nice, though it would need to be post-July.

 

Edit: Here's a question I had about my game design. When the LR aligns himself with a faction, would he join the numbers? For example:

If he aligns himself with the Obligators, will the Inquisitors have to kill one more? (Can it end with this ratio: 2, 1, 2 or will the Inquisitors have to kill another villager/the LR?)

If he aligns himself with the Inquisitors can the Obligators win if the Lord Ruler is the only non-village left? (Can it end with this ratio: 4, 1, 0 or does the village have to kill the LR?)

I would probably advise having him count towards parity once he joins a faction.

Some of this stuff is stolen from Elbereth/Haelbarde/me chatting in Discord so credit to them:

You might want to give TLR some sort of ability if he joins the elims. As it is, the benefit from him joining the village is quite a bit greater than the benefit the elims gain.

Balance would probably be easier if you made it so that Inquisitors can have a single life. That way you have a bit more flexibility when distributing, and can make the game a bit less vulnerable to random hits on Inquisitors.

If you go through with letting TLR pick which side to join, you'll probably want to give some sort of buff to the side that he doesn't choose. I'm not exactly sure what kind of buff to give, since it would largely depend on how/if you end up adjusting him.

[Mat he/him]

1 hour ago, Straw said:

I would probably advise having him count towards parity once he joins a faction.

Some of this stuff is stolen from Elbereth/Haelbarde/me chatting in Discord so credit to them:

You might want to give TLR some sort of ability if he joins the elims. As it is, the benefit from him joining the village is quite a bit greater than the benefit the elims gain.

Balance would probably be easier if you made it so that Inquisitors can have a single life. That way you have a bit more flexibility when distributing, and can make the game a bit less vulnerable to random hits on Inquisitors.

If you go through with letting TLR pick which side to join, you'll probably want to give some sort of buff to the side that he doesn't choose. I'm not exactly sure what kind of buff to give, since it would largely depend on how/if you end up adjusting him.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well.

Noted.

Mhm, maybe. I do like the idea of having there being consistent outed elims, though. That would create some interesting situations.

The reason I'm shying away from this is that I like the mechanic of the mystery that only TLR knows which faction he is aligned to, and the elims and village then have to figure out which one. Giving this buff would decline that and I don't really want to.  

Edited June 16, 2020 by Matrim's_Dice

[Straw he/him]

15 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well.

Noted.

Mhm, maybe. I do like the idea of having there being consistent outed elims, though. That would create some interesting situations.

The reason I'm shying away from this is that I like the mechanic of the mystery that only TLR knows which faction he is aligned to, and the elims and village then have to figure out which one. Giving this buff would decline that and I don't really want to.  

Yeah, I very much like the consistent outed elims bit, but it's useful to have some single life people for balance purposes. In Discord, I think Elbereth recommended three spiked, and then having the rest have single lives. That would probably result in there being a few outed elims to mess around with, but not so many that it becomes really swingy. @Elbereth any thoughts/advice on this specifically?

The issue with that is that if TLR joins the village, he will scan people, PM the villagers he confirmed with the full results, and then have them reveal to the thread and act as messengers for his scans. If he doesn't do that, it'd be obvious that he chose to join the elims instead.

[|TJ| he/him]

I was skimming the pinned threads, and there's some stuff about some special requirement to host non-Sanderson games. Is it so? I have a very brief outline for a Gentleman Bastards game. I'd like to know if I should continue to develop it or not. It will probably be a blackout game. 
I'm also planning a relatively normal 3-sided game (because blackout is definitely not the first thing I'd want to host) set during the Well of Ascension, the 3 sides being - Cett, Venture, Venture. Was a game with this specific setting played in the past?

[Straw he/him]

1 hour ago, TJ Shade said:

I was skimming the pinned threads, and there's some stuff about some special requirement to host non-Sanderson games. Is it so? I have a very brief outline for a Gentleman Bastards game. I'd like to know if I should continue to develop it or not. It will probably be a blackout game. 
I'm also planning a relatively normal 3-sided game (because blackout is definitely not the first thing I'd want to host) set during the Well of Ascension, the 3 sides being - Cett, Venture, Venture. Was a game with this specific setting played in the past?

From AG3 onwards, non-Sanderson games require a pass to be run. Each AG (other than AG5), passes have been distributed to some players. If you want to run a non-Sanderson game, you'll have to convince one of the following people to give you their pass:

• Wyrmhero
• DeTess
• _Stick_
• Arraenae
• StrikerEZ
• Burnt Spaghetti

As for the Mistborn game, the first Siege of Luthadel game that comes to mind is LG41, but I can't think of any with that exact setup. How exactly would the factions work? Would it be all against each other, two elim factions, a split village, or something else?

[|TJ| he/him]

Hmm, I'd imagine they have plans for their passes. Time to check for the next AG. 

Yeah I can't decide on the factions. That's why I asked if there were any similar previous games. I was thinking about all against each other, with Straff Venture and Cett factions being semi-elim in nature. They don't get docs but they get to know the identity of one of their teammates. Either - 

• A knows B. B knows C.... so on till Z knows A (but without PMs) OR
• A knows B. B knows A. C knows D. D knows C, and so on. 

Thoughts on this arrangement?

Main reason is I want to have around equal number on players in each teams. So I'm a bit worried whether knowing even one of their teammates would give them an unfair advantage over Elend Venture (let's call them village). If it does, how to sort them? Give the village the same thing as well?

If it is balanced, then I have to worry about kill roles. I can't have all the 3 factions with night (or cycle) kills. That's 4 kills per cycle which is too much. I'm thinking of having something like an automatic transfer steel flakes vial which shifts to another team after current use (it will also shift if they don't use it). So one faction will have a kill once in 3 cycles, but there will be 2 kills per cycle (including the lynch). Could this be a problem in the endgame where the team holding the vial would have an advantage?

What do you think?

[Straw he/him]

17 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Hmm, I'd imagine they have plans for their passes. Time to check for the next AG. 

One of the passes is from AG3, so I don't think most of them have any particular plan. If you end up making the game, there'd be no harm in asking some of them. 

18 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Yeah I can't decide on the factions. That's why I asked if there were any similar previous games. I was thinking about all against each other, with Straff Venture and Cett factions being semi-elim in nature. They don't get docs but they get to know the identity of one of their teammates. Either - 

• A knows B. B knows C.... so on till Z knows A (but without PMs) OR
• A knows B. B knows A. C knows D. D knows C, and so on. 

Thoughts on this arrangement?

Main reason is I want to have around equal number on players in each teams. So I'm a bit worried whether knowing even one of their teammates would give them an unfair advantage over Elend Venture (let's call them village). If it does, how to sort them? Give the village the same thing as well?

If it is balanced, then I have to worry about kill roles. I can't have all the 3 factions with night (or cycle) kills. That's 4 kills per cycle which is too much. I'm thinking of having something like an automatic transfer steel flakes vial which shifts to another team after current use (it will also shift if they don't use it). So one faction will have a kill once in 3 cycles, but there will be 2 kills per cycle (including the lynch). Could this be a problem in the endgame where the team holding the vial would have an advantage?

What do you think?

Mm, interesting. Since it's three factions, I think you'll probably want to lean into making Straff and Cett elim teams rather than typical faction game factions. It'd probably be best to make the Straff and Cett factions smaller than the village, so there's still a reasonable amount of hunting/analysis going on. With kills, I'd say that it's probably best to just give Straff and Cett kills. Two kills per cycle would be too few, especially since a game like this would probably end later than usual, since factions can team up against the winning faction. 

[|TJ| he/him]

2 minutes ago, Straw said:

One of the passes is from AG3, so I don't think most of them have any particular plan. If you end up making the game, there'd be no harm in asking some of them. 

Wait, I think I initially misunderstood AG as Anonymous Game. I'm assuming it's Anniversary Game? (Hmm, I see nothing next to Striker's name in the signup list  )

5 minutes ago, Straw said:

Mm, interesting. Since it's three factions, I think you'll probably want to lean into making Straff and Cett elim teams rather than typical faction game factions. It'd probably be best to make the Straff and Cett factions smaller than the village, so there's still a reasonable amount of hunting/analysis going on. With kills, I'd say that it's probably best to just give Straff and Cett kills. Two kills per cycle would be too few, especially since a game like this would probably end later than usual, since factions can team up against the winning faction. 

So regular docs? Hmm, I wanted to see how games would go if elims knew only one of their teammates. This is just at its nascent stage though, I'll put out a proper format once I've got more things clear, and I'll ask for help then. I'll go check out LG41. 

[Straw he/him]

16 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Wait, I think I initially misunderstood AG as Anonymous Game. I'm assuming it's Anniversary Game? (Hmm, I see nothing next to Striker's name in the signup list  )

So regular docs? Hmm, I wanted to see how games would go if elims knew only one of their teammates. This is just at its nascent stage though, I'll put out a proper format once I've got more things clear, and I'll ask for help then. I'll go check out LG41. 

Yeah, it's Anniversary Game. Anonymous Games are ANs. The passes aren't in the main section of the signup list, they're in the tab labeled "Winners".

Nah, I was meaning giving them consistent kills and having them be smaller than the village. If you balance correctly, you can totally do limited information elim teams. Joe was originally planning on doing one for MR42.

[|TJ| he/him]

43 minutes ago, Straw said:

Nah, I was meaning giving them consistent kills and having them be smaller than the village. If you balance correctly, you can totally do limited information elim teams. Joe was originally planning on doing one for MR42.

How would elim kills work with limited info elim teams? Have the kill role with one specific player, like a Coinshot? 

[Straw he/him]

Well first of all, you'd probably want to have it miss or do something else if they target someone in their faction. It might make sense to have it miss, and maybe have the killer gain a channel of communication with the target. As for how the kill would actually be decided, you could have it be a vote (ties decided randomly), you could assign the kill to a random player in the faction, or just have it start with a random person and have it move to the next person in line each cycle.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Vote’d be interesting, because on the one hand, you’d want to target trusted villagers, but on the other, if the trusted person was an elim, it’d be a massive blowout.

[|TJ| he/him]

Hmm yeah, voting sounds good. Though I could do a mix of both, because I still need to have a single originator for the attack, because if not, elim kills would be invisible to target scans. So, voting to determine the target, and a random elim who voted for the target to be the attacker?