Long Game 26: Cognitive Dissonance

[STINK he/him]

Just now, Magestar said:

Guys, I'm a neutral role, that does nothing to stop any faction.  There aren't really any good reasons to lynch me, plus, if I were not a neutral role, then this still does nothing, because roles/factions aren't revealed in this game.

You've said it yourself. If we're making a mistake and you're not evil, it doesn't matter because you're a neutral that said they would bandwagon. And trust me, it won't stalemate discussion until next cycle. We can talk about other things. 

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

10 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

Joe, I must request that to maintain the anonymity of the other claimees in my World that you, and others who would reveal their planet lists, do not do so. I will not insist on it, but I recommend you independently verify that the stats that I have here are matched in the other worlds as I suspect they are.

Alright. I'll do that.

5 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

Thinking about Aman's plan, I think it would be a good idea that if someone is killed the previous night, someone from their world reveals the list from their world. That way, we get all the information that we need to trace the Eliminators while maintaining a measure of secrecy from the World Destroyer. Does anyone have any objection to that plan?

I agree.

Also, my world PM discussion is also dead. We've been playing Hangman for three pages. (I've won everygame)

[Paranoid King he/him]

Just now, The Only Joe said:

Also, my world PM discussion is also dead. We've been playing Hangman for three pages. (I've won every game)

Yup. He has. For sure. We need a Wilson in here to even up the score.

[Magestar he/him]

6 minutes ago, STINK said:

it doesn't matter because you're a neutral that said they would bandwagon.

Seriously, I said I would do something that was helpful in the previous games I have played.  I thought it would help.  You guys were like, no, it won't, and I said I would not.  If you still think I'm going to bandwagon now, then I don't know what to say.

Also, one of my abilities lets me scan actions.  If I survive, is there anyone you guys want me to scan tonight?

And is it me, or does anyone but Stink have a good reason to vote for me?  I feel like I should at least have cleared up @Clanky and @The Only Joe's concerns, as well as @AliasSheep's.  If the problems are still that I'm bandwagoning, then I really don't know what to say.  I won't do that.  I feel like I have made that clear.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

10 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

Has seriously no-one asked for more explanation on why you're voting on Straw without any form of explanation?

I did have explanation. Read my earlier post when I first voted for him.

 

8 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

In fact, I'd say Odium would probably be just as likely to hit his allies - Autonomy or Eshonai - then he would his enemies.

I would think Odium would know who his own followers are.

 

8 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

You seem like you're grasping for straws (pun not intended...) when you try to find reasoning to vote for him.

And that's not what you're doing? It's only the first day, so I'm trying to look for something suspicious. My suspicion of him isn't incredibly strong, but it's there.

[Mint11 she/her]

Riza sighed as she heard the voices in the Cognitive Realm bicker over who should die. Some of them seemed awfully eager to start killing. The squabbles seemed almost childish. Childish accusations backed by childish explanations. A small part of her questioned this notion, considering that perhaps all the other voices in her mind had just put her in a fowl mood. Peace and quiet was such a blessed thing. Such a shame that this gift was being tarnished. 

Just a little while longer. It will be night soon enough.

Riza would endure the commotion. Once night came, she would get to work. Once night came, she would find him.

 

[AliasSheep]

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

If I switch my vote at the end of the turn, then there won't be time for a bandwagon to build up, and I will still be going with the majority.

You're not building a bandwagon, you're just contributing to one.  I.e. you are bandwagoning.

 

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

 I will be using my suspicions to place votes, however, I do think there will be vote manips, and I don't see how it could be seen as problematic for me to help build a strong lynch.

We have no reason to believe the elims would even try that strategy, nevermind have enough vote manips to do it.  It's problematic when you're literally trying to justify yourself voting with no explanation given.  It's a cop-out.

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

It seems like you want the lynch to not be very firm, and easily swayable.

Don't try to make it out that I've said things I haven't; I've said before that my issue is you trying to justify casting votes without backing them up.

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

 Also, usually, the lynch at the end of the game has some decent reasoning behind it, and I will make sure to see that I have a good reason to firm up the lynch, so you don't need to worry about that.

This is the beginning of the game.

 

 

This was just a response to that one post; will catch up with the thread (I see I have more replies to view) and make more responses shortly.

[Clanky he/him]

6 hours ago, Magestar said:

18 hours ago, Magestar said:

Oh. Huh.  I assumed their was no village faction because my role PM, which blatantly said I was not evil, did not pronounce me village.  Well, by all the usual standards, I'm not an Elim.  Not even close.

Well, take that how you may.  I'd rather not discuss a lot more of my Role PM on D1, but I can't take back that I said I was not pronounced 'Village'.

I have to go soon, although I'd like the chance to continue this discussion.

 

18 hours ago, Magestar said:

I'll take that.  It would fit with what I know of my role.  It pretty closely matches an independent from another game I have played.  

 

6 hours ago, Magestar said:

Wow.  Just got on right now.  I did not know that the Children existed until when Joe said it earlier.  Was it in the OP?  I don't remember seeing it, and I read through it twice.  I thought this game was like LG 23, with the Spiked and the Houses.  

That's the closest thing I've seen to this game.  But the Children appear to be an Anti-Odium Faction, which needs to kill Odiumers?  That's what I'm getting from the thread and my World PM.  I'll say I'm not a child, because that's true, and I still have no confirmation that the Children actually exist, although the shear number of people saying that they do would make me think that they probably do.

I would like to explain more about my role/faction, but it's really simple and kind of hard to explain without giving things away.  Aman was pretty close.  Paranoid's PM sounds oddly like mine, which I guess is not surprising, it just means I was right about multiple factions.

Are we calling the Odiumers God's Own Hate?  Is that confirmed?

 

5 hours ago, Magestar said:

Why?  I don't really see a reason to lynch me.  I'm neutral, willing to help the village, and have done nothing wrong.

And I did not say I was going to bandwagon.  I said I was going to aid the Village in whatever they decide for the end of the cycle.

But theirs not really a village, so it sounded a bit odd.

 

@Magestar My voting has nothin to do with any accusation of bandwagoning. It has to do with how you are discussing your faction/alignment. You start off by saying in the first quote three separate times that you are not evil but you don't seem to be a villager. You follow that up by saying it seems like you might be a independent, even though it would say directly in your Role PM "Independent". Later you say your role PM said nothing about the children. So you are not Independant and you are not a Child. The only other Faction that I have heard anything about is Gods own hate. That combined with your many pleas and statements of innocence/neutrality leads me to believe you are nothing of the sort. 

For the sake of easy reading here are the direct quotes gathered together that all are rather unnecessary statements of innocence: 

• "I'm neutral, willing to help the village, and have done nothing wrong."
• "I said I was going to aid the Village"
• "which blatantly said I was not evil,"
• " Well, by all the usual standards, I'm not an Elim. Not even close."
• "and I will probably try to kill the Odiumers"
• "Guys, I'm a neutral role, that does nothing to stop any faction"

For people that have played with Magestar before, is it usual to have this many random statements of innocence? It just seems to me like someone trying to act as far from an eliminator as possible and making sure everybody knows it.

[Magestar he/him]

28 minutes ago, Clanky said:

For people that have played with Magestar before, is it usual to have this many random statements of innocence? It just seems to me like someone trying to act as far from an eliminator as possible and making sure everybody knows it.

In every other LG I have played, I have been a villager.  In two of them I have been lynched.  In both of them I believe I was accused of being an Elim.  Once it was for defending myself too emotionally.  I tend to try and say I'll help the village, and just be helpful in general, pretty often.

Needless to say, I'm a little frustrated with that.  However, I apparently give off Elim vibes.  I was going to try and stay quiet this game, but then I slipped up while making conversation, and everything went downhill from there.

edit;  I know your accusation had nothing to do with Bandwagoning.  I still thought I had dealt with it.  Apparently not.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Magestar
grammar/redundancies

[Clanky he/him]

3 minutes ago, Magestar said:

In every other LG I have played, I have been a villager.  In two of them I have been lynched.  In both of them I believe I was accused of being an Elim very often.  Once it was for defending myself too emotionally.  I tend to try and say I'll help the village, and just be helpful in general, pretty often.

Needless to say, I'm a little frustrated with that.  However, I apparently give off Elim vibes.  I was going to try and stay quiet this game, but then I slipped up while making conversation, and everything went downhill from there.

edit;  I know your accusation had nothing to do with Bandwagoning.  I still thought I had dealt with it.  Apparently not.

I'm just wondering what you are claiming for alignment/faction. You said that it sounded independent but you aren't actually independent. Are you claiming to be part of a previously undiscussed neutral faction?

Also if in the previous games you played as a villager you tended to make statements of innocence like you are now then that would be a point in your favour which is why I'm asking for input from players who have been in games with you before.

[Magestar he/him]

Just now, Clanky said:

I'm just wondering what you are claiming for alignment/faction. You said that it sounded independent but you aren't actually independent. Are you claiming to be part of a previously undiscussed neutral faction?

Yes.  I believe I have already said this...  In the very least I have said it in the World PM.

[Mint11 she/her]

24 minutes ago, Clanky said:

For people that have played with Magestar before, is it usual to have this many random statements of innocence?

I've only played one game with Magestar before, and he's acting pretty normal.

[Paranoid King he/him]

I may as well add my input on whether or not Magestar is guilty:

1 hour ago, Nyali said:

Vote Tally

• Magestar (5): Araris, The Only Joe, Clanky, AliasSheep, Stink
• Ecthelion (2): The Young Bard, Amanuensis
• Stink (2): Elenion, Bridge Boy

Interesting thing about D1 lynches: The eliminators have info. The villagers don't. Therefore, the eliminators can manipulate the lynch to hit a villager. The villagers can't manipulate it to hit an eliminator. So in my experience, when you see something like this on D1, the leading candidate isn't an eliminator.

I don't know Mage's playstyle, but I do know the eliminators like to get a free kill on the D1 lynch.

[Magestar he/him]

I know I'm innocent.  Personally, I'd rather not have a lynch today.  It'd be better for my goals.  But, if there does end up being a lynch...  I don't know.  I'll probably vote for Straw or Stink.  Straw has done some odd things in the world PM.  It seems like he knows a bit more than he should.  I honestly hope you guys make the right decision today.

As for all of you people who think I'm innocent, would you mind voting on someone else?  I think there are probably a few other good options.  I don't know about Silverblade.  They seem somewhat suspicious, but most of my suspicions, slight though they may be, are not even on the list of votes RN.

[STINK he/him]

You're an independent though.

[Elithanathile he/him]

I think he means innocent as in "not specifically trying to kill people."

On that note, I'm not either. Just check the Scadrial World PM for proof!

[Arraenae]

4 minutes ago, Magestar said:

I know I'm innocent.  Personally, I'd rather not have a lynch today.  It'd be better for my goals.  But, if there does end up being a lynch...  I don't know.  I'll probably vote for Straw or Stink.  Straw has done some odd things in the world PM.  It seems like he knows a bit more than he should.  I honestly hope you guys make the right decision today.

As for all of you people who think I'm innocent, would you mind voting on someone else?  I think there are probably a few other good options.  I don't know about Silverblade.  They seem somewhat suspicious, but most of my suspicions, slight though they may be, are not even on the list of votes RN.

Magestar, what odd things has Straw done in your world PM?

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

2 minutes ago, STINK said:

You're an independent though.

Not according to him. He claims to be part of a third faction. He tried to make contact with them early on in the World PM; it was he who prompted Nyali to make that clarification on using faction goals as passphrases.

4 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

Magestar, what odd things has Straw done in your world PM?

I... Don't know, actually. I thought that we had already settled that Straw was probably a Child. He gave a long list of info from his PM, just like he did in the thread, but that's hardly damning.

 

On an unrelated note, does anyone know how to delete quotes on mobile? 

On 9/15/2016 at 11:03 AM, Paranoid King said:

Quote

Quote

Spoiler

 

[Amanuensis he/him]

I'm currently half-asleep and still lying down, so I won't say much as I'm on mobile and writing long posts this way is a pain. However, I feel the need to chime in regarding Mage. I've already mentioned this in my world PM, but I really don't think he's a member of God's Own Hate. If he was, I'm pretty sure his slip would not have involved doubting the existence of villagers. I might be wrong but I'd be willing to bet he's a part of a neutral faction, which is irrelevant to the win con of most Children, I expect. I personally feel like this lynch is an example of bloodlust overwhelming reason (reason being that lynching today is somewhat unwise since there's not going to be any info we gain from it, at least immediately, and if my interpretation is correct it won't bring us any closer to saving the Cosmere).

That being said... Mage. You really need to think a little bit more about what you're going to say before you send it. And by that, I mean you have a tendency to reveal too much of yourself, particularly details that most sane players would want to see you die for, such as that time you didn't deny having an Unknown Pokemon and still expected not to be ganged up on. Another good example is this: 

3 hours ago, Magestar said:

Ok.  Provide someone else who it makes sense to lynch.  It makes about as much sense to lynch me as it does for me to lynch you.  None.  Unless you are an Elim, you have no good reason to lynch me.  Even if you are, I'm part of a helpful, neutral faction, which I have said before. 

 

Emphasis mine.

Yeahhh... referring yourself as helpful to the eliminators to help save you from the lynch? Probably not the smartest thing to say... I was, and still am, very tempted to vote for you for this on principal alone. If you are a member of a neutral faction or Independent and offer to help Rayse like this you're as good as an ally to him in my mind, and regardless of if killing you fulfills a goal of mine, I will not hesitate to sever your body from your soul. Just saying.

[Magestar he/him]

42 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Not according to him. He claims to be part of a third faction. He tried to make contact with them early on in the World PM; it was he who prompted Nyali to make that clarification on using faction goals as passphrases.

I... did not think that was me...  I thought it was someone else in the World PM.

12 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

That being said... Mage. You really need to think a little bit more about what you're going to say before you send it. And by that, I mean you have a tendency to reveal too much of yourself, particularly details that most sane players would want to see you die for, such as that time you didn't deny having an Unknown Pokemon and still expected not to be ganged up on.

Yup.  Apparently I'm not very good at this.  I... Don't know why that quote won't come out colored... The other one did...  Huh.

3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Yeahhh... referring yourself as helpful to the eliminators to help save you from the lynch? Probably not the smartest thing to say... I was, and still am, very tempted to vote for you for this on principal alone. If you are a member of a neutral faction or Independent and offer to help Rayse like this you're as good as an ally to him in my mind, and regardless of if killing you fulfills a goal of mine, I will not hesitate to sever your body from your soul. Just saying.

Umm.  I guess that was not a good idea.  

I don't really see any way I'm going to survive this...   Well, congrats guys, if you do end up killing me, you've killed a completely random neutral.  -sigh-

I said Straw was the only other person I found slightly suspicious.  It would be between him or Stink if I were going to vote, RN.  It really makes no sense to lynch anyone on the lynch list right now, in my opinion.

Honestly, I hope I don't die this round, but I'll check back in in a couple of hours to put a vote down.  Other than that I probably won't get on again.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Don't be discouraged! It's something you'll develop the more you play. Just keep in mind for the future that neutrals seldom help the village, at least not in memorable ways, so they have a tendency to be targeted by villagers to prevent betrayal. Outright saying you're open to take sides like that, especially before and after you said you'd help the village, isn't a good sign of honesty or integrity.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Does anyone know of anyone who has an ability to discover the identity of dead players? We really need a way to discover who we lynched. Can anyone think of anyone from the nooks that might have such an ability? Right now All I can think of are Marasai Colmes, and Waxillium Ladrian. If someone does have such an ability, I would be willing to defend them, regardless of Alignment, in exchange for the public release of dead player's identities.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I could see Taravangian or perhaps Lirin with an ability like that, the first because of his hospitals and the second due to him being an experienced surgeon. Perhaps Susebron too, if his massive number of breaths could somehow allow him to sense investiture, or a Bronze Savant... are there any Seekers of renown in the Mistborn Saga?... though I suppose those last two would be more like role scanners.

[Clanky he/him]

Magestar, I'll remove my vote for now. 

 

What about Kelsier in his cognitive form managing to return to the physical realm? He might know stuff about getting info from dead people.

[Straw he/him]

Magestar, what have I done that makes you suspicious of me?