Long Game 26: Cognitive Dissonance

[Clanky he/him]

4 hours ago, Magestar said:

I'll take that.  It would fit with what I know of my role.  It pretty closely matches an independent from another game I have played.  

 

3 hours ago, Paranoid King said:

Shasharra

Homeworld: Nalthis

Starting World: Nalthis

Alignment: Independent

Starting Investiture: {25}
 

Goal - Avid Researcher: Successfully use the Collaborate action with two different targets. Successfully use the Interview action with two different targets. Successfully Publish while on Nalthis.
 

Goal - Prove Your Theory: Successfully use the Special Craft Nightblood.
 

Goal - True Love: Talaxin must end the game Alive.

So assuming that Nyali didn't just completely change how the roles will be shown you would know immediately that you are an independent. No ifs, ands or buts about it. 

4 hours ago, Magestar said:

Oh. Huh.  I assumed their was no village faction because my role PM, which blatantly said I was not evil, did not pronounce me village.  Well, by all the usual standards, I'm not an Elim.  Not even close.

Well, take that how you may.  I'd rather not discuss a lot more of my Role PM on D1, but I can't take back that I said I was not pronounced 'Village'.

I have to go soon, although I'd like the chance to continue this discussion.

Magestar, You obviously aren't independent (unless you just skipped that part of your role PM) and given your many statements about (most definitely) not being an eliminator (not even close!) that raises a bunch of red flags for me. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

At first, I had thought that Magestar was just speaking obliquely. If I'm understanding the context of this "village" term appropriately, it's referring to a group that specifically opposes "eliminators," yes? I agree that in the this war, Rayse and his allies could be interpreted as "eliminators." But I could also see Magestar referring to the fact that the word "village" was never specifically associated with the Children before.

Of course, due to recent comments, it is now clear that he is neither a Child or Independent. That leaves him as either an advocate of hatred who is attempting to deceive us, or a member of a faction with an unrelated goal. Personally, I think it's the latter, since I believe that if he was working with Rayse then he'd know about the Children, which would result in a different slip. Since I already said I would make no enemies other than those who wish to see Odium rule, I will not aid in his death today. That is unless someone can present information (preferably factual, but if you have some contextual evidence, feel free to present it) that would point to the opposite being true. In which case I will gladly help show him the way to the Beyond.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Silverblade5 he/him]

9 hours ago, The Only Joe said:

You were just doing all of that to demonstrate how you'll be playing? Confrontational, Chaotic, and generally unhelpful? What did we learn from any of that, other than that you're going to be playing Classical Neutral!Stink, of pretending to help both sides, when really, you're just helping yourself and the eliminators. I'm all for allying with Independants, But ti Don't think you'd actually ally with anyone.

TL;DR I think Stink is either Independent or Evil, and either way, I don't want him around. Nothing he does makes sense from a village point of view.

Joe, I've only read up to this point. Sorry if I missed something.

You were the first to defend Mark by attacking Stink's argument. Are you two in a faction together? Also, while the bolded part may be true, it seems more like an ad hominem then anything else.

If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me. Also, isn't it generally considered bad policy to reference past games for defence or support of an argument?

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

You have missed something but you do bring up a point no one else did. And yes. It is Ad Hominem. Which was intentional. Being completely honest. I've never liked Stink's playstyle. I feel like it causes more problems than it solves, and raises more chaos than catches Eliminators. So when I realized he was probably Independant, I decided that I would rather lynch him than someone whose Alignment I had no idea of. I haven't switched back to voting for him because that's not a style of play I want to do. 

I do not know what Faction Mark is in. I just don't think the way Stink was accosting him is the way to go about it.

If it is bad Policy, then a lot of players are guilty of it.

[dowanx]

5 hours ago, Paranoid King said:

Secondly, none of my goals require me to specifically target Rayse's gang. They're just another faction, people!

If this was a faction game which I am not sure it is, I would still be wary of this line of thinking.  Just look at LG 23 and how badly it went for all of the other factions.

[Amanuensis he/him]

3 minutes ago, dowanx said:

If this was a faction game which I am not sure it is, I would still be wary of this line of thinking.  Just look at LG 23 and how badly it went for all of the other factions.

Says the Inquisitor who won because of it...

#stillbitterthevillagekilledme

I should probably make it clear that I agree.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Amanuensis
Added text is italicized

[dowanx]

[Silverblade5 he/him]

1 hour ago, The Only Joe said:

You have missed something but you do bring up a point no one else did. And yes. It is Ad Hominem. Which was intentional. Being completely honest. I've never liked Stink's playstyle. I feel like it causes more problems than it solves, and raises more chaos than catches Eliminators. So when I realized he was probably Independant, I decided that I would rather lynch him than someone whose Alignment I had no idea of. I haven't switched back to voting for him because that's not a style of play I want to do. 

I do not know what Faction Mark is in. I just don't think the way Stink was accosting him is the way to go about it.

If it is bad Policy, then a lot of players are guilty of it.

What was the something?

[STINK he/him]

Alright just read the thread and the main thing that stood out to me was Amans post where he was like 'STINK was so sure the plan would fail ' because it is a plan that requires most people to follow the plan and not have a malicious intent, but if we're not even sure about multiple different factions then we can't ensure that, thus the plan is basically dead. So yeah, I was pretty certain.

[Amanuensis he/him]

5 minutes ago, STINK said:

Alright just read the thread and the main thing that stood out to me was Amans post where he was like 'STINK was so sure the plan would fail ' because it is a plan that requires most people to follow the plan and not have a malicious intent, but if we're not even sure about multiple different factions then we can't ensure that, thus the plan is basically dead. So yeah, I was pretty certain.

I severely doubted the plan would work when I suggested it. But knowing who was willing to go along with it and seeing people's reasons for opposing it were very useful data points for me to use to determine their role's intentions. That being said, I was mostly just irked by comment that "no-one" would go along with it. That's a very different statement then the plan failing because it would require everyone agreeing to follow through with it, which I've learned several games ago will never actually happen.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Amanuensis

[STINK he/him]

Well if everyone knows that the plan will fail, then no one is going to do the plan. I don't think it's that bad a thing to say.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, STINK said:

Well if everyone knows that the plan will fail, then no one is going to do the plan. I don't think it's that bad a thing to say.

So that's where the disparity is coming from; you're only focused on general idea rather than the subtextual intent.

[Young Bard he/him]

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

I ended up editing "in essence" in there because I know for a fact that there is an eliminator and village faction. That being said, I had a theory about the existence of a 17th Shard faction, who's primary goal is finding (and likely killing) Hoid, based off a comment made by a player in my world PM earlier. Now I have more information, which points them to being someone like Sigzil, since they eventually described their win con as "murdering Hoid or getting him to take you as an apprentice," but initially I believed he was one of Galladon, Demoux or Baon, and I wouldn't be surprised if those three were out there trying to find him as well. Since the 17th Shard in the books appear to be trying to stop Hoid from interfering with Rayse, I doubt their win condition has anything to do with him, or the village, and if they are indeed a faction rather than each of them being  Independents, then their victory will certainly mean a village AND eliminator loss, hence why I could see this game being interpreted as a faction game. Besides, the rules seem to imply that there are different groups out there who's wins would result in village loss, eliminator or not... which Sart just quoted.

I can confirm that either one of the players in my World PM that is a 17th Sharder Character, and yet who's alignment is that of a Child, and they were able to succinctly explain the Children's win con. Because of this, I don't believe a 17th Shard faction exists.

2 hours ago, Ecthelion III said:

So sorry Daniyah XD

But not sorry Straw

Has seriously no-one asked for more explanation on why you're voting on Straw without any form of explanation?

OK, I was hoping to get as many players in my World to agree to me posting this, but I've gotten 2 people to support it and no-ones opposed it, so I'll reveal the role distributions of my World, based on claims.

2 Children

3 Independents

1 Non-Child Non-Eliminator Faction Member

Now, I'm fairly certain that one of the Independents or the person claiming the Non-Eliminator Faction is lying, and is secretly part of Rayse's gang. Which still means we have a 2:1:3 Village: Eliminator: Neutral Ratio, which is extraordinarily biased towards the Eliminators. When I discussed this in the World PM, it was suggested that the game was a faction game after all, with God's own Hate only making up one faction instead of the Eliminator team. However, one of the first claims was of a 17th Shard member, and they were the first to claim a Child, before the name was revealed in thread, and proceeded to tell the faction win con, which was later verified by the other Child of Adonalsium. If the first Child had been a 17th Sharder, I'd have felt it more likely that it was a plain faction game, but as it is, it looks like an unbalanced Eliminator game.

I suspect for balance reasons, the Eliminator individual goals will be extraordinarily difficult to complete, meaning that they won't have proper unity. It's also possible that they don't know who their buddies are, and can't claim for fear of being hunted by the Children. But, if the numbers on my planet are indicative of everywhere else (which there's a chance they might not be, though I don't think it likely), then the Eliminators are dangerously close to winning. In fact, maybe Nyali put so few Children in in order to make God's Own Hate scramble to avoid achieving it's win con too early.

Joe, I must request that to maintain the anonymity of the other claimees in my World that you, and others who would reveal their planet lists, do not do so. I will not insist on it, but I recommend you independently verify that the stats that I have here are matched in the other worlds as I suspect they are.

[STINK he/him]

I would think that it's much more likely that one of the independents is lying.

[Young Bard he/him]

2 minutes ago, STINK said:

I would think that it's much more likely that one of the independents is lying.

I know. I took that into account. That leaves a 2:1:3 ratio, which is bad news for the Children.

Unless you're suggesting a Child is pretending to be an Independent, but I fail to see why they'd do that.

[STINK he/him]

Because if they pretend to be independent then eliminators are less likely to kill them.

Sorry to the villager doing that for explaining it, but apparently some people are anti independent this game.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Regarding Ecthelion, he suggested we kill Gladium Paleas earlier. Here's the exact quote explaining why:

10 hours ago, Ecthelion III said:

Straw. I think it would benefit the eliminators most to know who's mentioned in the role PMs. If a player said "I have Odium on my role PM", that would probably be someone Odium would aim to kill.

As for the rest, I'll ask around, but so far my world is pretty quiet. I've got some who's claimed they need to kill or befriend Hoid, another who says they need to find Khriss, while the rest haven't said much / are essentially lurking. Two of those lurkers have spoken up a little, and from what they've said, I believe they are good, but as for the remaining two I'm clueless. On the surface, it looks like my world's ratio is 3:2:2, where the black is those have yet to interact in any meaningful way, and therefore making it impossible for me to vouch for their innocence. If anything, those two unknowns are my best guesses at Rayse's allies, though it's possible that one of the two players I'm counting as Children are actually [Evil]. I suppose the same would be true for the potential Independents, but I personally think they're genuine.

 

By the way, here's the vote tally so far...

(3) STINK: The Only Joe, Elenion, Magestar, AliasSheep, 

(3) Magestar: Araris Valerian, The Only Joe, Clanky, 

(1) Paranoid King: Arraenae, 

(1) Arraenae: Paranoid King, 

(1) Straw: Ecthelion III, 

(1) The Only Joe: Silverblade5, 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Amanuensis
Edited in vote tally

[STINK he/him]

Pretty good vote tally for like halfway through the first day, dontcha think?

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, STINK said:

Pretty good vote tally for like halfway through the first day, dontcha think?

Depends on your perspective. Only ten players of thirty-three have active votes right now, so number wise, not really.

[STINK he/him]

Just over halfway through the first day and 10 votes is disappointing? D1 is never gonna have loads of votes because no one wants to commit to a lynch. D2 and D3 lynch numbers are where you can look at them and be all like 'hm' but during D1 peeps just wanna have someone killed so they can react to it rather than making a reaction happen.

[Amanuensis he/him]

11 minutes ago, STINK said:

Just over halfway through the first day and 10 votes is disappointing? D1 is never gonna have loads of votes because no one wants to commit to a lynch. D2 and D3 lynch numbers are where you can look at them and be all like 'hm' but during D1 peeps just wanna have someone killed so they can react to it rather than making a reaction happen.

I'd have to look back at previous LG D1 vote tallies, but 30.3030303030303030% doesn't seem very high to me. Not that it's a problem, necessarily. Right now, I feel like lynching anyone today is unwise, considering the fact that we won't even learn the results unless someone with the power to learn the role and alignment of the dead reveals themselves, which there's no guarantee will happen. I'd rather wait for Rayse and his allies to make their first move and examine everyone who was on the same world as the deceased.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

OOC- I feel really out of depth, where do I post what I want my actions to be? 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Darkness Ascendant

[Amanuensis he/him]

17 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

OOC- I feel really out of depth, where do I post what I want my actions to be? 

You know the PM Nyali sent you that explains your role? That's where you put your actions. However this is a day turn and most actions can only be used at night. So unless you have a free action that can be used during the day you'll have to wait. In the meantime you can vote to lynch someone.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

You know the PM Nyali sent you that explains your role? That's where you put your actions. However this is a day turn and most actions can only be used at night. So unless you have a free action that can be used during the day you'll have to wait. In the meantime you can vote to lynch someone.

Thanks! I vote to lynch Victor! Why? For being suspiciously helpful! (also, since noone else has voted to lynch you, there is a low chance of you dying, so............It's just a prank bro)

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Thanks! I vote to lynch Victor! Why? For being suspiciously helpful! (also, since noone else has voted to lynch you, there is a low chance of you dying, so............It's just a prank bro)

I use this shade of purple for my out-of-character text, so technically it was Aman that was helpful, not Victor

Edited September 16, 2016 by Amanuensis