Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Conquestor he/him]

If the Whitecloak happened to detain that person that was sending in the kill orders, that would be awesome! I think that Elodin would be the best person to lynch at this point, because he seems the most suspicious. He is the most suspicious because of his vote vote changing D1 and because he looked like he was trying to get Sheep lynched instead of Sart.

[Bugsy he/him]

What do you mean by counter claim him? There's no reason there can't be more than one scanner. And if there were, why would that scanner want to claim? Really, in what way is that a good idea?

I didn't mean role claim, I meant claim that they were detained. That was before I saw that the person who was detained couldn't be targeted, back when I though Straw was either detained or lying.

I'll catch up on the rest of the thread in a min, it's a bit hard to do it all at once on mobile

Edit: Wait. Does anyone else see that the timestamp in my quote is later than the time it lists for my reply?

Edited June 6, 2016 by Bugsy6912

[jaimeleecee she/her]

EDIT: See my post, jaime.

 No worries, that's why I haven't voted yet.. no pressure, we still have a day and a half.

[Bugsy he/him]

Wilson, the first game I played I knew about you guys, so your argument about that part is completely invalid. Honestly, people have you in their member titles ! You can't get much more well know than that. Also, the Darkfrinds would have known that I was a Dreamwalker.

EDIT: See my post, jaime.

Actually, it might be a valid point because he joined literally for this game, and his only exposure in the forums has been to these threads relevant to the game. I'll have to go back and check some of the context, but we shouldn't dismiss it completely out of hand.

Edit: Actually, Elodin, you're probably right. He was responding directly to a post by Orlok describing the reputations. Never mind

Edited June 6, 2016 by Bugsy6912

[STINK he/him]

All I'm getting so far is that Wilson thinks she has figured it out, which would be pretty boring imo.

 

Straw is confusing everyone but it's okay because he claimed a role (always remember, roles > players /s)

 

Elodin could be evil but he also couldn't be evil and no-one really knows.

 

I'm confused.

 

Someone may have saw quotes in Wilson's signature that made them wary of Wilson (which is a fair point)

 

Anything else I've missed?

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

A quick update just to help with any clarifications!

A player who was Detained is told that they were. Anybody who would target them would just get back "Unsuccessful". Sorry for any confusion regarding that.
 

[Nyali she/her]

Ruon (Bard) - are you a Whitecloak? I'm going to assume you are. Ba'alzamon. There was no night kill last night, and I have reason to believe that Ba'alzamon (Elodin) was detained.

 

EDIT: Sorry I've been super inactive on this thread. I had a very busy weekend, and catching up is taking a while. So, I just skimmed things, and I think I see what's going on. I could be wrong, but Ba'alzamon (Elodin) was suspicious already, and if Straw is telling the truth, I really do think Ba'alzamon was detained.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Nyali

[Straw he/him]

Well, this settles it. Elodin was definitely detained.

[Hellscythe he/him]

I believe you're all discounting the possibility that the eliminators purposefully made no kill so that we would lynch the white cloaked player regardless of how important they are.

I was talking to Orlok last night and he apparently talked to I believe Wilson last night and had some kind of suspicioun brought upon himself enough to be killed by a wolf. So I'm going to assume Wilson is either a wolf herself or has a wolf that is willing to listen to her. The latter I find likely.

DC was inactive. I didn't kill him but if I was a wolf I probably would've.

I'll make votes later when I'm not on mobile because it's pain but I'll probably be voting for elbereth. If I was Padan Fain she'd be my first target.

[AliasSheep]

Well, this settles it. Elodin was definitely detained.

What settles it?  There's been lots of people believing it, but no more actual evidence.

[Straw he/him]

Gamma said that if someone targeted a detained person they would get that it had been "unsuccessful" which is exactly what I got.

[AliasSheep]

Gamma said that if someone targeted a detained person they would get that it had been "unsuccessful" which is exactly what I got.

There's no reason that, say, the Dreamwalker ability wouldn't also cause the same message.

 

That being said, I am leaning towards Elodin actually being detained.  Both your statement of your scan being unsuccessful and that Elodin has claimed that he was detained seem reason to believe it.  It's just not settles for certain.

Now, I think this does imply that Elodin is an eliminator who had submitted the kill.  I'm not sure why the Elims would anticipate a Detention, especially since they'd just taken such a big hit.

[little wilson she/her]

Actually, it might be a valid point because he joined literally for this game, and his only exposure in the forums has been to these threads relevant to the game. I'll have to go back and check some of the context, but we shouldn't dismiss it completely out of hand.

Edit: Actually, Elodin, you're probably right. He was responding directly to a post by Orlok describing the reputations. Never mind

 

Orlok's exact words were this: "I'm not sure I support giving more power to a player like Meta or Wilson. Both are widely respected in this subforum, and have illustrious reputations. Hence, we give their views a great deal of thought and value anyway - and also scrutinise them perhaps further."

 

Compare that to Gunshy's comment: "Why give more power to the people who already set others on edge with just their rep? "

 

You might be able to say that the very last bit about scrutinizing us more indicates that we set players on edge, but I don't think so, because people who set others on edge aren't widely respected or have their views given value. Players who set others on edge create friction and usually irritate others. That's the very definition of setting someone on edge. It's not mere caution. It's much more than that. The very term "set on edge" indicates that he knows more details than he should for someone who is absolutely brand new to the forum and the games. That is my point.

 

I was talking to Orlok last night and he apparently talked to I believe Wilson last night and had some kind of suspicioun brought upon himself enough to be killed by a wolf. So I'm going to assume Wilson is either a wolf herself or has a wolf that is willing to listen to her. The latter I find likely.

DC was inactive. I didn't kill him but if I was a wolf I probably would've.

 

I was on my phone for most of the night. Orlok started a PM with me, yes, because he knew he'd irritated me during the day turn and he wanted to talk to me about that. I responded to him once because the rest of the time, I was either with family or in a car. He replied towards the end of the night but I wasn't even able to look at it until after the rollover (I got back to my apartment about 15 minutes before the rollover). I barely talked to anyone last night and those I did talk to can testify that I didn't say much. I'm not the reason Orlok is dead. I didn't kill him and I didn't have anyone else kill him either. Even if I were in contact with someone with a kill role, I wouldn't have had them go after Orlok. If I were sending them after anyone, I would've picked Elodin, Gunshy or Nyali (who I still have a very strong gut read on and despite what she's trying to claim, it has nothing to do with retribution. I said I'd do analysis if anyone wanted it. No one asked for it, so I didn't).

[Amanuensis he/him]

@Gamma, when is a player informed that they've been detained by a Whitecloak? At the beginning of the relevant Night Turn or the following Day Turn?

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

@Gamma, when is a player informed that they've been detained by a Whitecloak? At the beginning of the relevant Night Turn or the following Day Turn?

Theyre informed at the day rollover, after the fact.

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

Rubik. Figure I'd put a vote down before I go to bed. My reasoning behind this vote is in the Night thread, if you want to know the details.

I don't blame you. I look really suspicious.  I don't really have  a good explanation/reason for you.

 

Anyway, this is the current vote count (from what I got)

 

 

Lynch vote

Elodin (3):Straw, Seonid, Nyali

Straw(1):TheYoungBard

Phatt(2):Elbereth/Lomion, Conquestor

Rubik(1):TheMightyLopen

 

Mayoral vote

Wilson(1):conquestor

YoungBard(1):Bugsy

Edited June 6, 2016 by RubiksCube

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Bard. I'd also like to give Bard a shot as mayor. I do plan on rotating my votes for mayor every Day turn.

I'm still trying to work out my actual suspicions, so I'll be voting later.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Mailliw73

[Nyali she/her]

Oh, hey, wait a second. I just got a clarification from the GM. Ignore the assertions I made in my last post - they were based on an incorrect understanding of a rule.

 

I had misunderstood something, but now that it's cleared up, I know for absolute certain one person whose action failed last night - Ruon (Young Bard). Sure, it could have been Gladium (Straw) who also claims to have failed an action, but I really don't think so. Gladium (Straw) picking Ba'alzamon (Elodin) makes total sense given how everyone was suspecting him. Ruon didn't target Ba'alazmon, but his action still failed. That [edit: meaning, my additional information] says nothing about Ba'alzamon, but it does say something about Ruon. And yes, it could have been someone else whose action failed, [edit: including Ba'alzamon himself] but I don't think that many people had actions that failed that didn't involve targeting Ba'alzamon, and I don't think eliminators would voluntarily pick the town's top suspect to kill. [edit: And I don't think the eliminator team would be silly enough to have the town's top suspect perform the eliminator faction kill.]

 

So, Ruon (Bard). (and Ba'alzamon (Elodin))

 

 

And yes, yes, I know that role claiming is bad, and I agree that role claiming is bad, but I made a post without thinking that gave too much information and couldn't retract it when I realized I had said too much. Eh, whatever. I'm one of the top suspects for several people, so might as well at least try to get one eliminator down before* getting lynched or murdered by wolves or something.

 

[edit: * - or after, if you decide to kill me first, but hopefully, and if I'm right about Ruon, my alignment reveal on death will lead to Ruon going down shortly afterward.]

Edited June 6, 2016 by Nyali

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Are you claiming Whitecloak or Chaneller now? I don't get what the evidence is.

[Hellscythe he/him]

What role are you claiming and how do you know Bards actions failed?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Hey guys, I haven't read through today's thread yet, but I saw a couple people wanted me to talk more. I'm job hunting right now, so my time has been a little limited, and I will try to post something significant later this evening.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Because the only roleblock in the game (other than the Whitecloak, which I'm not referring to as RBing but detaining) is the Spirit weave, and if they have a channeler wouldn't it make more sense just to kill Straw instead of roleblocking him?

This is what you were referring to, Elodin. As I read it, it's not necessarily talking about a good or evil Whitecloak, just one that wanted to protect you. I can see how you would get an evil Whitecloak out of it, though, so I'm not pressing that point too hard.

 

I don't even know if this is relevant to this specific instance, given Elodin was most likely Detained, but Channelers and Warders know who they are and I kind of doubt that there'd be a Darkfriend duo, so, if only one of the Warder/Channeler pair is evil, they have to account for their Actions to their Warder. So no, I don't think that a Channeler would have roleblocked Strawman, let alone attack him.

 

Because detaining Straw only blocks his viewing. Detaining you keeps you alive.

 

 

I think I know why the Darkfriends didn't attack anyone last night. One, the Forsaken was dead, obviously. Two, they probably only have 3 other players and all of them were tied up with other actions. Right now, I'm thinking both Elodin and Gunshy are Darkfriends. Elodin took heat so their Whitecloak Darkfriend (who is not Gunshy) targeted Elodin to protect him from any kills and to make sure he couldn't be viewed. This meant that both the Whitecloak and Elodin couldn't make any actions. And Gunshy's computer died so he wasn't online.

 

Why do I think Gunshy is evil? This post and this post. The first post says that the discussion so far in the day has been a "huge mess" of assumptions and allegations, which I think is a pretty major over-exaggeration. Yes, there was a bit of aggression coming out and there were some assumptions and some allegations but nothing even close to a huge mess. More like a very minor mess. Then, he says that he's not going to vote until Cycle 2, to get more information into posts, but voting is one of the ways information gets into posts, and I'm always wary of people who say "I want information but I'm not willing to give information for that information," or anything even similar to that. Which is exactly what he's doing. Third, he comments that Nyali's points about the D1 lynch is a good one. That point about how the village only has the lynch to find and kill eliminators, baring vig roles....How is that a good point? I'd think that was a point that anyone could come up with on their own. I know I did, which is why I called Sart out in the first place. He also says that there's evidence supporting Sart being an eliminator. No, there wasn't really. There was evidence that he might be an eliminator, but what he'd done is something a villager could do too. The biggest mark against Sart was the fact that there was such a concerted effort to turn the lynch away from him, but that hadn't happened when Gunshy made this post. So what evidence was there against Sart....?

 

The second post I think is the more damning of the two, though. Orlok never said that Meta and I set people on edge. He said that our opinions are already respected so we don't need the mayor position, and he thinks it would be better to go to someone less outspoken so they have a chance to be heard as well. But Gunshy says that he agrees with Orlok that players who set others on edge with just their rep shouldn't be given more power. Gunshy is a new player. He's never played with me or Meta. He has no idea about our reps, and those reps hadn't really been talked about much (nor in a way that shows that people are "set on edge") at that point in time, so I find this a very peculiar twist for him. Unless he's in a doc and people have been talking about those reps in there. That would make a lot of sense then.

 

I agree that Gunshy is suspicious and I even brought up the point about him saying "there's some evidence against Sart," which was my only reason for suspecting him really. I didn't go into as much detail as you though, but since you did, I can just say "yep, that was my thought process." There was literally no evidence against Sart. There was an accusation that something he'd done seemed shady, but it was hardly evidence.

 

I believe you're all discounting the possibility that the eliminators purposefully made no kill so that we would lynch the white cloaked player regardless of how important they are.

I was talking to Orlok last night and he apparently talked to I believe Wilson last night and had some kind of suspicioun brought upon himself enough to be killed by a wolf. So I'm going to assume Wilson is either a wolf herself or has a wolf that is willing to listen to her. The latter I find likely.

DC was inactive. I didn't kill him but if I was a wolf I probably would've.

I'll make votes later when I'm not on mobile because it's pain but I'll probably be voting for elbereth. If I was Padan Fain she'd be my first target.

 

First off, why are you trying to figure out who the Wolves are in public? We don't want Fain to get a Wolf-Brother because then he's got a kill. As it is, he'll have to try and use the lynch to win the game if it gets down to it and I see that as a big part of how we're gonna find him.

 

Second, you're gonna be voting for Elbereth because, to you, Elbereth was the best target for conversion? There's so many different types of players here and so many different ways of thinking that it's not a good idea to make assumptions solely based on how you would do things.

 

I don't blame you. I look really suspicious.  I don't really have  a good explanation/reason for you.

 

...Um, okay. Do you have any suspicions or thoughts on the game? That's really what I want to hear. Defenses are okay, but I much prefer when players add their thoughts as to who the eliminators might be, since that will fuel discussion more, IMO. So if you add some thoughts about who to lynch or who not to lynch, I'll think about removing my vote. Sound fair?

 

Oh, hey, wait a second. I just got a clarification from the GM. Ignore the assertions I made in my last post - they were based on an incorrect understanding of a rule.

 

I had misunderstood something, but now that it's cleared up, I know for absolute certain one person whose action failed last night - Ruon (Young Bard). Sure, it could have been Gladium (Straw) who also claims to have failed an action, but I really don't think so. Gladium (Straw) picking Ba'alzamon (Elodin) makes total sense given how everyone was suspecting him. Ruon didn't target Ba'alazmon, but his action still failed. That [edit: meaning, my additional information] says nothing about Ba'alzamon, but it does say something about Ruon. And yes, it could have been someone else whose action failed, [edit: including Ba'alzamon himself] but I don't think that many people had actions that failed that didn't involve targeting Ba'alzamon, and I don't think eliminators would voluntarily pick the town's top suspect to kill. [edit: And I don't think the eliminator team would be silly enough to have the town's top suspect perform the eliminator faction kill.]

 

So, Ruon (Bard). (and Ba'alzamon (Elodin))

 

 

And yes, yes, I know that role claiming is bad, and I agree that role claiming is bad, but I made a post without thinking that gave too much information and couldn't retract it when I realized I had said too much. Eh, whatever. I'm one of the top suspects for several people, so might as well at least try to get one eliminator down before* getting lynched or murdered by wolves or something.

 

[edit: * - or after, if you decide to kill me first, but hopefully, and if I'm right about Ruon, my alignment reveal on death will lead to Ruon going down shortly afterward.]

 

Yeah, um, I'm a bit confused by this as well. You say you know Bard's Action failed, but, how do you even know he has an Action, used an Action if he does have one, or whether it failed or not?

 

You're the top suspect for several people? That seems like an exaggeration. I'm suspicious of you true, but you're not even close to being my top suspect. I think Wilson is the only person who really has you high as a suspect. And I'm pretty sure she honestly feels that way, no past feelings involved(I mean, even if there are, she was really impressed by you in LG20. She got annoyed at all the difficulties we ran into, you and your logic being one of them, but I think she's pretty good at keeping bias from past games affecting her judgement/reads.).

 

 

About the situation with Elodin. It appears he was Detained by a Whitecloak. Everyone needs to realize that the Whitecloak chooses their target during the Day. Elodin wasn't really under much suspicion until Night came. So, what does this mean? I'm not sure. I'm actually thinking he's probably a Whitecloak, which is why he wasn't worried about getting hit by a Wolf-Brother(he seemed very nonchalant about all of that last Night, IMO.). I'm still very suspicious of him, but I thought I'd point that out.

[Master Elodin]

Nah, I'm not a Whitecloak. You're getting closer though. Kinda. Also, I'm assuming that Nyali is a Thief-Taker, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Nah, I'm not a Whitecloak. You're getting closer though. Kinda. Also, I'm assuming that Nyali is a Thief-Taker, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Oh, you have a Whitecloak Darkfriend teammate?   Seriously though, I'm confused what you're implying here. You seem to know who Detained you. How is that?

 

I don't think it's possible for her to be a Thief-Taker, since the Thief-Takers can't have found out anything, due to their Action being used during the Day to find out what happened during the Night.

[Master Elodin]

Oh, you have a Whitecloak Darkfriend teammate?   Seriously though, I'm confused what you're implying here. You seem to know who Detained you. How is that?

 

I don't think it's possible for her to be a Thief-Taker, since the Thief-Takers can't have found out anything, due to their Action being used during the Day to find out what happened during the Night.

No, I have no idea who detained me. I just know that my detainment changed pretty much nothing.