Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I will be retracting my mayor vote for Bard until we at least hear his story. My new mayor vote is for Hael.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Mailliw73

[Seonid he/him]

Meta, you make a good point about needing to vote for mayor, so I'll follow up on it. I trust Lopen, and so I think we might as well keep him as mayor.

 

I hadn't thought of your points against Bard - I admit that Elodin has been taking up most of my focus. It's my bedtime right now, so I'm going to do a reread of Bard's posts at the end of D1 in the morning. I'll come back and report my findings at that point.

[little wilson she/her]

Ok, Wilson. First, my assumption was completely reasonable. Second, you deliberately cut out the edit. 

 

I cut out the edit because I'd already addressed the edit. I mentioned exactly what Orlok was saying and what Gunshy said and they don't match up. Orlok was saying that the mayor vote should go to people other than me or Meta because we are widely respected and our opinions are already valued, so the mayor should go to someone who is less heard from to get them to speak up. Gunshy was saying the opposite. He said that the mayor role shouldn't go to use because we're feared (though "set on edge" was his term). That wasn't Orlok's point, and it's not something that a brand new player who has never looked at any other games would know.

 

 

First Day:

You lynch Sart. This is good for us, as he was a Forsaken. But what was your initial reason for lynching him? Semantics. At least to me, it seemed like you were searching for a reason to lynch someone without much contest. This alone makes me suspicious. Then, the second Day rolls around.

 

 

Yes, because placing one vote--the first vote, mind you--is really gearing up to lynch someone. And without contest? It was less than 2 hours into the turn. No one had more than one vote, and I was calling someone out on something suspicious. Sure, it was semantics, but hey, guess what? That's not the first time semantics has killed an eliminator and sure won't be the last. If you want to be suspicious of me for doing what I always do when I'm good, have at it. Good luck. Really hope that doesn't backfire on you...

 

Second Day: Hmm, ok, you're voting for Gunshy. I wonder why this is. Oh! I see. It's another semantically constructed reason! Better yet, one that was could be interpreted in at least ten different ways. For some reason, you decided to immediately interpret it in the most damning way possible. And now you suggest that a Wolf-Brother kills him. No, you strongly suggest it. Is this because you want him to die even if you can't convince everyone to lynch him? Seems likely.

 

Hm. Did I somehow color a name red without realizing it? Nope. I haven't. I haven't voted at all today! Imagine that! And you mean that this is something that could be interpreted ten different ways like.....the lack of a Darkfriend kill last night? Yet that hasn't stopped the discussion about that. Nor has the discussion about people's different views on that automatically made them suspicious. How about you start calling people out on that now too? I mean, you seem to like calling people out on---oh wait, no. That's just me. Sorry. Once again, you're misconstruing my points again. Twisting my words in ways that are not logical based on how I worded something and the context that I very clearly meant it (trust me. I'm an English major. I have a degree in this. I know how to say exactly what I mean). And it looks like at least one person understood the way I meant it:

 

I took what she said to mean that she wanted to hear from Gunshy, but if he continues to be inactive, he would make a good candidate for a wolf kill - Bugsy indicated that he thought Gunshy's technical problems were now resolved, so there was nothing preventing him from posting any more. I think it's reasonable to suggest a player who has been called out to be wolf killed if they don't respond (I mean, we've still got ~24 hours of the cycle left - it's plenty of time)

 

So try again, Elodin. I'm not Padan Fain, and no amount of your word-twisting will change that fact. I even have a role, so if I'm viewed, since the viewer sees role and alignment, they'll see that I cannot possibly be Padan Fain. Nor have I been converted by him either, and if he's smart, he won't convert me, because I fully plan on setting a plan in motion tonight that will lead to my lynch in a few cycles if I haven't been killed yet by then. Converting me would be a very bad idea.

 

Orlok's Channeler, I propose you come out. You are going to die in two days. Nothing to do about that. Why would the Darkfriends waste a kill on you? Why would Fain corrupt you? I propose you inform us if you used Water or Air last night as it may clear up quite a bit.

 

Orlok's Channeler isn't going to come out if they're a Darkfriend. Personally, I'm hoping they are a Darkfriend so we don't have to worry about the Black Ajah, but I'm not going to get my hopes up on that front. Another Channeler could easily be a Darkfriend as well.

 

Finally, I agree with Wilson that Nyali is likely village. Also, Wilson, I'm interested to know why you think that Gunshy is more suspicious than Elodin.

 

Honestly, with Elodin's claim of Dreamwalker, I feel that the scenario you constructed falls apart. Why would an evil!Whitecloak detain Elodin if Elodin could go Dreamwalker? Elodin's Dreamwalk would have blocked scans and wolfbrother kills on him with the same efficacy as a detention, not to mention given a more plausible reason for failing actions. And without a Whitecloak (or at least one targeting Elodin - this isn't evidence that there isn't a Whitecloak on the team) as the 3rd member of the Eliminator team (hypothesized to be Gunshy, Elodin, and one other), Gunshy is not left as the only one who could have made the kill - and therefore his computer being dead no longer points to that possibility.

 

Now, I'm more than willing to admit I could be wrong - after all, I don't have any evidence to convince me of Gunshy's innocence. I'm not emotionally invested in him not being a Darkfriend. But I don't think that your argument points to Gunshy's guilt anywhere near as strongly as you think it does, and there are - by my reckoning - much stronger leads out there to follow up on.

 

I'm pretty sure I suggested that just before Elodin claimed Dreamwalker. If I didn't, he ninja'd me. I'm also skeptical of his claim too, because it seems a little too convenient. If the Darkfriend Whitecloak detained him, he'd be able to claim Dreamwalker and get us to keep him alive since we just killed a Dreamwalker and we don't want to lose PMs. Granted, this would mean they'd have to hope and pray that there's another Dreamwalker out there, but if there is, who knows how long they'd be able to keep up that gambit? It's not like the Whitecloak is going to come out and say "Hey, I detained him! He's lying!" Because they're teammates in this scenario.

 

I never said (nor do I think) that my points against Gunshy are conclusive of his guilt. If I thought that, I'd be voting for him. I'm not. I want to hear from him first. And yes, I agree there are stronger leads and I agree that Elodin is highly likely to be evil, but ya know what? People were already talking about Elodin. He was getting a lot of attention already. I decided to talk about someone else that I find suspicious as well.

 

To be completely honest, you're on my suspect list too, Seonid. Not as far down as Elodin and Gunshy, but you're there. I'm only about 4 pages into my D1 analysis, but I ran across this post, and it raised some red flags for me. Meta's vote came over 2 hours after mine, and while a number of other people mentioned suspicion of Sart, no one voted on him. People were very careful not to solidify a lynch early. And unlike you and apparently Nyali, I don't see anything wrong with placing a second vote on someone who's done something suspicious who you'd like to get talking more--particularly a player like Sart who has a habit of being quiet. A second vote puts the threat of death onto them and makes it so they have to talk. Because now they could die. Only one vote though? That's nothing. You can ignore one vote and I've seen plenty of players do just that.

 

The funny thing is that there was a time not too long ago when the metagame was very much in support of placing a second vote on people to get them to talk and then going from there after they talk. It's shifted away from that to a fear of lynching people, so rarely do we get over 3-4 votes for any given lynch, but I don't think there was anything wrong with the way it was for that time.

 

I'll be honest, I've had the same thought. I even asked Keland about it last night. I'm not saying I actually think this is the case, but that I could see it. Having both Keland and myself be Villagers, some could consider that pretty powerful in and of itself. I could see Gamma balancing things by putting her not as a Darkfriend, but on a team by herself for awhile. But this is very metagame reasoning, so I don't give it too much weight.

 

Gamma isn't exactly one to balance that carefully. He's more a "do what the RNG says" type of person. If the RNG puts you and I on a team together, that's what happens. And anyway, I roleclaimed to you last night as well, so you know that I can't actually be Fain.

 

Your harping on this distribution stuff and how we couldn't possibly be on the same team together makes me wonder if you're Fain, however, Meta. Particularly since you have been a little too aggressive. I get that aggression is your MO, but it's not usually spinning things so out of context for so many different people. I was willing to overlook it for most of the first day since I figured you had a motive behind it (and I still think you did--I think you were gauging people's reactions), but you're usually more put together than this.

Edited June 7, 2016 by little wilson
fixed quote issue

[Elbereth she/her]

You're assuming he reads sigs for one thing (a number of people skip right over sigs or even ignore them as a whole) and you're also assuming he took the time to read past games and those games he took the time to read happened to be the games that Meta and I played in (as El said, we haven't played in many games recently). I would venture to say that he didn't read any games. Not everyone is like Elbereth. In fact, from what I've seen, most players who join the games have maybe followed along with one game prior. Maybe. Possibly more if they know someone.

Hey, only I read MR9 (the currently running game) before I started! Oh, and maybe QF9 at some point. I have started LG3 now, though. I'm very sad that I have nowhere to comment on it... Anyway.

This makes me sad. Warm fuzzy feelings should be associated with the Brightness Ascendant, not trembling fear..

Well. Trembling fear isn't right, but she's definitely not always warm and fuzzy...

If El misses my QF15 (edit: QF14, I mean) lynch strategy.

You'd better not.

I agree that your aggression is not making you look any better, Elodin. I also agree that it's not necessarily a bad change from your normal playstyle (although I think you're being a bit too insistent that Wilson must be evil - oh, she can't be a Darkfriend now? Then she must be Padan Fain!).

So, who all has come under suspicion today? Elodin. Young Bard. Gunshy. Am I missing anyone? I'm about to go back through posts. I'm also slightly suspicious of HS, but that could just be my perspective given our interactions, so I'd like others' thoughts on that.

Your harping on this distribution stuff and how we couldn't possibly be on the same team together makes me wonder if you're Fain, however, Meta. Particularly since you have been a little too aggressive. I get that aggression is your MO, but it's not usually spinning things so out of context for so many different people. I was willing to overlook it for most of the first day since I figured you had a motive behind it (and I still think you did--I think you were gauging people's reactions), but you're usually more put together than this.

This. Exactly. I keep expecting some reasoning to clear up why Meta did this or acted like this and it's just not there. That's what's bugging me. For those who have talked with me in recent docs, he's not being a "clear point" like usual.

Regarding Mayor votes, I agree that they need to happen. Not sure that we should keep the same Mayor, but... hmm. I think we didn't get to see him do anything with it D1 (because everyone assumed that I was going to be Mayor for basically the whole day - which is actually kind of weird to me, that no one ever realized how close it was. Hmm, maybe I'll go back and look at that), so I'd be okay with leaving Lopen as Mayor for another cycle (particularly as the other current candidate is Bard, who I'm not sure would be the best choice for a Mayor position given how much suspicion has landed on him - I'm not saying specifically that I'm suspicious of him because I haven't gone back and looked at his posts yet). Next cycle we should definitely elect someone new, though.

EDIT: Oh, also, Phattemer. That vote's obviously doing nothing. Haven't decided where to put it yet, but I'll definitely try to vote tonight.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[Mailliw73 he/him]

(trust me. I'm an English major. I have a degree in this. I know how to say exactly what I mean).

---

Orlok's Channeler isn't going to come out if they're a Darkfriend. Personally, I'm hoping they are a Darkfriend so we don't have to worry about the Black Ajah, but I'm not going to get my hopes up on that front. Another Channeler could easily be a Darkfriend as well.

---

Gamma isn't exactly one to balance that carefully. He's more a "do what the RNG says" type of person. If the RNG puts you and I on a team together, that's what happens. And anyway, I roleclaimed to you last night as well, so you know that I can't actually be Fain.

Your harping on this distribution stuff and how we couldn't possibly be on the same team together makes me wonder if you're Fain, however, Meta. Particularly since you have been a little too aggressive. I get that aggression is your MO, but it's not usually spinning things so out of context for so many different people. I was willing to overlook it for most of the first day since I figured you had a motive behind it (and I still think you did--I think you were gauging people's reactions), but you're usually more put together than this.

...I will back her up on that first point. You better word anything you say to her exactly right, or you'll know you screwed up.

---

Yes... And? Everyone else seems to be of the opinion that his Channeler should hide. I'm throwing out the possibility that they don't have to. I think it's pointless for them to hide, regardless of their alignment. They're a dead person walking.

I haven't read WoT, so I don't know what the Black Ajah is...

To your last point about the Channeler: Again, so?

---

Wilson, role claiming N1?! Wow. Not sure what to think of this. Also, not sure how a claim backs you up in the slightest. I can claim to be anything I want, that doesn't mean I can't be Fain.

I wouldn't call that harping on anything. Meta's not using it as conclusive evidence, just a suggestion. Though, as we saw in LG20, multiple very experienced, skilled players can be put on a team together. I actually also had the thought that one of you two was Fain.

Lastly, yes, I agree that Meta seems too aggressive. More so than usual and less composed and calculated than usual. But, I have to say, so are you.

[Master Elodin]

Well, regardless of me not realizing that you hadn't voted for Gunshy, my point still stands. You did help move the Sart lynch along and you are still suspicious of Gunshy for semantical reasons, regardless of the fact that you are apparently good at wording things clearly and Haelbarde correctly interpreted what you said (even though his interpretation doesn't make me wrong). Also, I'm not trying to stop discussion of Gunshy (even though that comparison is ridiculous), I'm just analyzing your behavior and how it matches up to the mindset and actions of Padan Fain. Even if I misunderstood your meaning, your intents would be the same. Also, Gamma never said that someone couldn't have two roles.

EDIT: Ninjad by Maill.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Master Elodin

[little wilson she/her]

 Yes... And? Everyone else seems to be of the opinion that his Channeler should hide. I'm throwing out the possibility that they don't have to. I think it's pointless for them to hide, regardless of their alignment. They're a dead person walking.

I haven't read WoT, so I don't know what the Black Ajah is...

To your last point about the Channeler: Again, so?

 

I was just throwing that out there. The Black Ajah is basically an evil Channeler, so Darkfriend Channeler in this case. I will say that I don't necessarily agree that the Channeler should reveal themselves, though. The Darkfriends could have a Whitecloak, and if they do, you can bet money that Channeler will be detained until they die, just to make it so they can't do anything potentially harmful to the eliminators. Sure, they won't kill them because they're a dead person walking, but there are other ways to make someone useless that doesn't entail killing them.

 

 

 

Wilson, role claiming N1?! Wow. Not sure what to think of this. Also, not sure how a claim backs you up in the slightest. I can claim to be anything I want, that doesn't mean I can't be Fain.

 

I'm not you. When I claim, I'm being honest. And I've claimed N1 before. LG6 Kas and Wes knew I was Aiel-Blooded on the first night. You and Aonar may have as well, but I'm not as certain about that. I know I hinted very strongly at my role to Aonar, Ren, and Gamma in LG9 on Day 1. I roleclaiming in LG8 early, and I also revealed myself to a number of players in the first cycle of LG14 (namely Orlok, Kipper, and Seonid, though a number of others greatly suspected my role as well, if they didn't know it). I abide by PM safety rules to a certain extent, but I don't let it dictate my every move. Paranoia isn't my playstyle.

 

 

Well, regardless of me not realizing that you hadn't voted for Gunshy, my point still stands. You did help move the Sart lynch along and you are still suspicious of Gunshy for semantical reasons, regardless of the fact that you are apparently good at wording things clearly and Haelbarde correctly interpreted what you said (even though his interpretation doesn't make me wrong). Also, I'm not trying to stop discussion of Gunshy (even though that comparison is ridiculous), I'm just analyzing your behavior and how it matches up to the mindset and actions of Padan Fain. Even if I misunderstood your meaning, your intents would be the same. Also, Gamma never said that someone couldn't have two roles.

 

I wouldn't really say I helped move the Sart lynch along. I barely even posted in the thread at all in the last half of the turn, and that's where most of the stuff happened with the bandwagoning and Sheep and Straw. I didn't get involved in that and I didn't call people out for that either. I could barely even keep up with the thread while that was going on since I was with family I hadn't seen in over a year.

 

And yes, I do go after people for semantics. When I gun for someone, I look at how they word things, and I analyze that. I base most things off of gut reads, but once I break out the analysis, I get into semantics. Because that's my strong suit. I'm not going to stop being suspicious of people for semantics because if I do that, I'm cutting out 75% of what makes me a halfway decent villager. So no. Sorry. I will continue analyzing language.

 

And let's be clear here: you're analyzing my behavior based on how you think Padan Fain would act and his mindset. What you think and what the player who has that role thinks are possibly two entirely different things.

 

 

Also, it's true that Gamma never said that people couldn't have two roles, but until I see proof otherwise, I am going to assume that this is one-role game for all players. Padan Fain has no reason to have an additional role, unless it's perhaps Aiel-Blooded. Anything else, he wouldn't be able to really use, since if he's using night actions for another role, he can't convert. And even Aiel-Blooded, I'm seriously skeptical about. Padan Fain shows up as a villager (probably a regular villager) to Viewer scans. Anyone the Viewer scans as having a role, therefore, cannot be Padan Fain, because they have a role. Now, any regular villager a Viewer scans doesn't have the same guarantee at all. But I'm not regular. Hence, I'm not Fain, and I will gladly submit myself to any Viewer who'd like to check that.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I did know you were Aiel-blooded fairly early on, yes. I'm just saying a claim proves nothing. You're not about to claim Fain to Meta.

[little wilson she/her]

I did know you were Aiel-blooded fairly early on, yes. I'm just saying a claim proves nothing. You're not about to claim Fain to Meta.

 

Well, actually, when he asked me, I did think about trolling him and saying that I was Fain just to see what he would do, but then I decided not to. No, if I were Fain, I just wouldn't have claimed at all. And I wasn't planning on it, but then he said something else and I'm just like "You know, what the heck. Let's drop this huge hint as to my role and see what happens." And he knew what I meant, and we went from there.

 

The point is, I don't lie about my role (well, usually. When Kipper goes and forces me into a web of lies to cover up the fact that I'm Cultivation since I got a little too claim-happy on the first cycle, I start lying to a number of people). My default setting is to be honest about my role, and if I don't want to be honest, I will simply not say anything about it.

[Young Bard he/him]

I have about three percent left on my battery, so I don't have much time to respond. I haven't seen the last page and a half or so, but I'll get back to it when I'm home in a couple hours.

 

Nyali's action 'failed' because I didn't submit an action. No-one detained me, to the best of my knowledge no-one else performed any other kind of action.

 

EDIT: I will submit a more in-depth response when I get home in a couple hours.

 

And Nyali, I know this is easy for me to say, but I'm sure it was a perfectly innocent mistake on Gamma's part. He probably got mixed up about moving a non-action actually did. I'm sure that all of us would want you to stay. How else can we accuse you of being evil and try to murder you? 

Edited June 7, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Well, actually, when he asked me, I did think about trolling him and saying that I was Fain just to see what he would do, but then I decided not to. No, if I were Fain, I just wouldn't have claimed at all. And I wasn't planning on it, but then he said something else and I'm just like "You know, what the heck. Let's drop this huge hint as to my role and see what happens." And he knew what I meant, and we went from there.

The point is, I don't lie about my role (well, usually. When Kipper goes and forces me into a web of lies to cover up the fact that I'm Cultivation since I got a little too claim-happy on the first cycle, I start lying to a number of people). My default setting is to be honest about my role, and if I don't want to be honest, I will simply not say anything about it.

Ah, got it. So far, the number of lies I've told this game is 1. So, I'm getting there. It's hard to turn off the info gathering liar though. Edited June 7, 2016 by Mailliw73

[Elbereth she/her]

Right.

Young Bard - Honestly, as I read through his posts, I really don't see much to be suspicious of. He explained his switching votes adequately here, in my opinion. This and two posts after it are the relevant votes. I can see how that would be suspicious, but really? I don't think an eliminator would be that obvious with bandwagoning. I could kind of see it if he was panicked enough, which is possible given Sart was Forsaken and also an experienced player, but... I don't read it that way, really. I think Elodin is a much stronger candidate.

Speaking of Elodin: I'm definitely willing to believe he's an eliminator. I can see his posts being from a village perspective... but I can also easily see them being from an eliminator perspective, which I can't do as much with Bard. With the exception of his aggression at Wilson (which I don't really find innocent or suspicious, just... weird), he's done a lot of following others' opinions (here, here) without much else. I am inclined to believe his claim of Dreamwalker because he implied it in this post back on D1.

As others have brought up, he voted Sart and then immediately took it off when Seonid brought up that he was bandwagoning. It could be that at this point in the cycle Sart had said he should be given up on, but he still took advantage of the opportunity to retract when Seonid gave it to him. This is obviously not the only thing that could have happened, but it's certainly possible.

Also, votes on Strawman and then goes quiet without retracting for the rest of the cycle while that mess is sorted out.

Everything else reads neutral for quite a while. Then his post about Gunshy made me think for a moment: Elodin is assuming that Gunshy read past games. I don't really view that as a valid assumption. So that leads me to conclude he's maybe trying to rescue his teammate, yes, as has been pointed out. It also makes me think that maybe Gunsy has read past games. And Elodin knows that. Because they've discussed it in the evil doc. Both are solid possibilities.

The only thing that really confuses me is your aggressiveness towards Wilson, as I said. I don't really see that from an eliminator mindset, but I also don't really see it from a village mindset? So... I don't know.

In general, though, I can definitely see Elodin as an eliminator, and unless I see particularly good evidence to the contrary I'll keep that vote there.

Really quickly, Straw - Obviously, claimed (and somewhat confirmed) scanner. I don't see any of his behavior so far to be particularly suspicious for him, and I don't think we should lynch/kill him for a couple of cycles.

May go over Gunshy in the morning. For now, I need sleep.

Oh, and Wilson - the advantage to a Channeler claiming could be that at least we'd learn whether there's an eliminator Whitecloak. Which would be nice to know.

Edited to retract vote.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

For you, Lopen, I got off my phone and booted up my laptop.

Aww, thanks!

 

Sorry I haven't been on recently everyone. The last few days have been busier than expected. I'm hoping that from here on out, I'll be good to go by tomorrow. 

 

After my reread the other night, my two biggest suspicions of people that seemed to be trying to save Sarah are Cenn and Ruon. Ruon in particular wound up switching his vote almost as much as Ba'Alzamon did and yet no one has really brought that up as they have with Ba'Alzamon. To me, it seemed like he was more than willing to hop on any vote that got close enough to possibly save Sarah. 

I'm voting for Ruon because he's still my biggest suspect; not because of the miscalculation from today's events. 

 

Also, Jak. While I don't necessarily trust him, unless we want the mayor role to just be up in the air, we need more votes for mayor. It only takes one vote to change the mayor and we've already had a few votes (some of them for Ruon no less). So, if you don't have someone else in mind for mayor, might as well stick with the one we have right now. 

 

 

 

I'll be honest, I've had the same thought. I even asked Keland about it last night. I'm not saying I actually think this is the case, but that I could see it. Having both Keland and myself be Villagers, some could consider that pretty powerful in and of itself. I could see Gamma balancing things by putting her not as a Darkfriend, but on a team by herself for awhile. But this is very metagame reasoning, so I don't give it too much weight.

 

As far as Gunshy and Keland's arguments for it, I could see it. It does seem to be a bit of a slip and that's exactly the type of thing we're looking for. Just depends on how much Bugsy would talk about the subforum with Gunshy before getting them to sign up. I'd like to hear from Gunshy before we wind up lynching them for it though. 

 

My thoughts on why Cenn and Ruon are more likely villagers.

 

Cenn(Seonid) - from what I remember, he pushed for lynching Sart for most of the Day and was a part of why the lynch was so focused on Sart. He did eventually get off the lynch, sure, but I read his reasons as very understandable. The lynch on Sart wasn't based on any great logical masterpiece, so him being unsure about it like he was felt genuine when I read back over it.

 

Ruon(Bard) - Okay, mostly I remember his switching his vote between Straw and Sheep a couple times, which I think is what you're referring to. But at that point, again, the lynch on Sart was looking very odd, because of the bandwagon votes by Elodin and Straw(who made his immediately after Elodin), which cause Elodin to remove his vote right after that, so the lynch on Sart just wasn't that great of a lynch at that time and I think that if Bard had been an eliminator he would have been more likely to have just sat back and let the votes go rather than draw attention to himself by switching his vote like he did. His posts other than that have given me a village read as well, just as a gut feeling/tone kind of thing. Nothing except his voting has looked all that suspicious, IMO.

 

Thanks for the Mayor vote! I'll put my own Mayor vote on myself as well! Jak

 

So, who all has come under suspicion today? Elodin. Young Bard. Gunshy. Am I missing anyone? I'm about to go back through posts. I'm also slightly suspicious of HS, but that could just be my perspective given our interactions, so I'd like others' thoughts on that.

Regarding Mayor votes, I agree that they need to happen. Not sure that we should keep the same Mayor, but... hmm. I think we didn't get to see him do anything with it D1 (because everyone assumed that I was going to be Mayor for basically the whole day - which is actually kind of weird to me, that no one ever realized how close it was. Hmm, maybe I'll go back and look at that), so I'd be okay with leaving Lopen as Mayor for another cycle (particularly as the other current candidate is Bard, who I'm not sure would be the best choice for a Mayor position given how much suspicion has landed on him - I'm not saying specifically that I'm suspicious of him because I haven't gone back and looked at his posts yet). Next cycle we should definitely elect someone new, though.

 

I'm a bit suspicious of Hellscythe too, yeah. Both for his reasons for maybe future voting on you and for his examples for what could have happened with the missing elim kill, which didn't seem very plausible to me, so I'm suspicious he brought them up, as they're very unlikely scenarios which doesn't help clear anything up.

 

Thank you for your vote!

 

Wilson, role claiming N1?! Wow. Not sure what to think of this. Also, not sure how a claim backs you up in the slightest. I can claim to be anything I want, that doesn't mean I can't be Fain.

I wouldn't call that harping on anything. Meta's not using it as conclusive evidence, just a suggestion. Though, as we saw in LG20, multiple very experienced, skilled players can be put on a team together. I actually also had the thought that one of you two was Fain.

Lastly, yes, I agree that Meta seems too aggressive. More so than usual and less composed and calculated than usual. But, I have to say, so are you.

 

Role claiming does have some relevance to her being Padan Fain or not, I think, because of the reasons Wilson brought up. That Fain most likely will show up as a "regular villager" as scans because he doesn't have a role other than himself(due to him having his Corrupting Action), so those with roles are able to clear themselves of being Fain if they get scanned as having a role. I guess since his Corrupts are limited, it's possible that Gamma gave him an extra role, but that doesn't really seem like the type of role Fain is. He's someone who gains power by conversions which Corrupt the town. He doesn't have immediate power. I don't know, that's just the feeling I get. I've also been assuming it was either 1 role or none.

 

I agree that Meta and Wilson are both probably evils.

 

Jokes aside, I think I'll finally put my vote on Elodin as well. I'm too tired(and feeling lazy) to type up my reasons. Basically, bandwagoning(hopping onto different people right after someone else gives reasoning(he voted on me, Sheep, Sart, Straw on D1 immediately after reasons were given for possible guilt). His suspicion against Wilson doesn't seem valid to me, although I'm with Elbereth on this one, it's kinda odd rather than suspicious. I do believe his claim of Dreamwalker, but honestly, I think I'm okay with PM's going down if he's our last one. Call me crazy, but I've gotten used to not using PM's over the last 6 games or so and since I'm not going after everyone's information like usual, PM's don't seem as useful to me. There seems to be a ton of people who are heavily suspicious of him. Normally, I'd wonder at the apparent lack of anyone coming to his aid, but I'm currently thinking that if he is an eliminator, they just think he's in too much trouble to risk trying to save. Either that or we're totally wrong and they're laughing at us. :/ 

 

Sigh. I'm having doubts about him being evil. Similar to how I had doubts about Aman being evil in MR14. Elodin just doesn't seem like he cares all that much about surviving. A ton of people are saying they're very suspicious of him and yet he's still posting about other players and how Wilson could be Padan Fain rather than solely defending himself.

 

Well, I changed my mind a bit. I'm still suspicious of Elodin, but he's already got a lot of votes, so I'll place my vote elsewhere for now. Hellscythe, what are your thoughts on all of this? I would think that you would have some suspicions or accusations to make at this point, other than Elbereth because she might have been converted. Your posts haven't been very substantial and you're kind of just staying in the background. Very nice place for a Darkfriend with all of this posting and misunderstandings.

 

And remember, as it stands, my vote counts double.

Edited June 8, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Young Bard he/him]

This is chiefly aimed at Meta and Bugsy, who I think are the only ones voting for me at the minute.

 

Re, the Day 1 lynch votes: As El already mentioned, I made two vote changes, within a 10 minute period (from Sheep to Straw and back to Sheep), here, which I explained when I wasn't flying out the door here. I'm open to all questions, but I'm not sure whether you don't believe me, or whether you just didn't see it. Meta (or anyone else, I suppose), if you have any questions, I'll probably be on quickly in the morning about 3 hours before rollover, so I'll try and see if there's anything else you me to answer. Be warned though - it could well be seat of my pants 'comment as I read' responses, which is what made you so suspicious/annoyed at me last time (it's just because of the rollover time of day and my RL schedule. There's not much I can do.)

 

Re, the Night 1 Nyali redirect: I've basically said everything to say, which is that I didn't perform an action last night turn. Which is why Nyali's action failed - there was no action for her to redirect. There isn't a second Whitecloak (or if there is, there's no evidence of it from last night.) Nyali also wasn't faking the roleclaim (not that anyone was suggesting she was), as that's the only way she'd know that I didn't perform an action last turn. Again, any and all questions are welcome - I'm not going to tell you my role, so don't bother with that - but otherwise, fire away!

 

Knowing that I'm not an Eliminator, I'll vote for Elodin as the most suspicious option. Normally, I wouldn't risk losing the PM's, but there's no other major candidate besides myself to vote for. I don't find Gunshy or Hellscythe as suspicious as Elodin, and I'd like to see both of them respond before I judge anyway. If you believe this is for some Eliminator-y purpose of bandwagoning, I'll mention that he was at the top of my list of suspected Eliminators back in Night 1.

 

I can't be bothered doing another list of suspects today. I'll do it again Day 3 at the latest, because I'll have less people to talk about by that time, which means less work for me.

[Bugsy he/him]

This is chiefly aimed at Meta and Bugsy, who I think are the only ones voting for me at the minute.

Huh, I don't remember voting for you... I was really tired, but I don't think I'd forget it entirely. I won't have time to look for it until a couple hours from now, but if you find the post I voted in, link it to here so I can remove it. For now, Bard (Just in case)

[STINK he/him]

Wow a lot has happened. Both good and bad I guess? This is my clueless post again, if you couldn't tell. Man exams are fun.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Elodin:

Hey guys! I exist! Anyways, I don't completely trust Wilson because she seems like she's trying to draw suspicion towards others without actually saying much herself. Also I think that we should focus less on the corrupted right now and more on the Darkfriends, since they are more of a threat at the moment.

Meta:

Ba'Alzamon: I find that people tend to focus on those areas that they have a vested interest in. For example, a Wolfbrother might ask what people's opinions are on Village Night Kills to get a read on where everyone stands in the game. So Ba'Alzamon coming right into the game and saying that we shouldn't worry about the Corrupted makes me think he might be Fain.

Elodin:

I'm suspicious because it seems to me that she's trying to stop being helpful. Anyways, l'll talk about something else if I must. What do you all think about night kills?

Elodin:

Ok, so I guess I should respond to the allegations against me. All I can really say is that there was no basis for the large amounts of votes on any of the lynch candidates so I was ready to jump at any (however small) reason for one persons lynching. Also now can we talk about Night actions?

Elodin:

Nah, I meant the doc thing. So who's up for the Wolf-Brother kill besides me?

 

Something of a pattern I noticed. Elodin repeatedly referencing the wolf-brother role feels a bit forced to me - it reads like he's trying to look like it's his role. I'm still suspicious of Elodin; no opinion on Bard.

 

For now, though, where did Winter go?

[Young Bard he/him]

Something of a pattern I noticed. Elodin repeatedly referencing the wolf-brother role feels a bit forced to me - it reads like he's trying to look like it's his role. I'm still suspicious of Elodin; no opinion on Bard.

 

For now, though, where did Winter go?

 

Well, Elodin basically tried to strongly imply he was the Dreamwalker role as well, without actually confirming anything. I think he's trying to claim any role he thinks will keep him alive.

 

I guess a no opinion is better than an 'Eliminator Read', which is what a lot of people were saying. I can live with that.

 

And I have no idea where Winter went. She was so active last turn, though, so I assume it's just RL stuff which she's sensibly catching up on. (I should probably do the same...)

[Straw he/him]

How bout this. We lynch Elodin. I scan Bard.

EDIT: Could I get some protection tonight?

Edited June 7, 2016 by Straw

[Metacognition he/him]

Your harping on this distribution stuff and how we couldn't possibly be on the same team together makes me wonder if you're Fain, however, Meta. Particularly since you have been a little too aggressive. I get that aggression is your MO, but it's not usually spinning things so out of context for so many different people. I was willing to overlook it for most of the first day since I figured you had a motive behind it (and I still think you did--I think you were gauging people's reactions), but you're usually more put together than this.

 

This. Exactly. I keep expecting some reasoning to clear up why Meta did this or acted like this and it's just not there. That's what's bugging me. For those who have talked with me in recent docs, he's not being a "clear point" like usual.

 

I'm getting really sick of hearing this so I'm going to address this once. You guys do know that by making me have to spell this out, you're also making it so that it can be planned for in the future, right? 

Yes, I'm aggressive. I throw suspicions out there almost haphazardly. That's because the suspicions themselves aren't all that important. It's how people react to them that is. It generates discussion, gives everyone something to start from (rather than talk about metagaming stuff), and if I hit a bit too close to home, someone might get a little too defensive. Or someone else might come to defend someone because they see a possible attack on a teammate. 

 

I look for hints of teamwork; something that the Villagers tend to lack early game, so it stands out more when Eliminators do so. And guess what? It worked for the first day. Unlikely Keland, I was around when things were starting to shift from Sarah. I specifically said that I was keeping my vote where it was due to how I read the people trying to defend Sarah. I had every opportunity to shift my vote, but didn't. 

You want me to be clear? Well, in doing so, you're also asking me to tell the Darkfriends how I try to find them. So I hope this is worth it to you....

 

Honestly Keland, I'm surprised that you're making as big of a deal out of what I said. I explained all of this to you in the PM and I specifically said that I don't give the reason much weight. Definitely not enough to actually accuse you of being Fain. But, then you get so defensive of it that you're causing me to wonder if, as I said above, I might've hit a bit too close to home for your liking. 

 

As far as Ba'Alzamon goes, this feels too easy to me. The only person that's really come to his defense is himself. This just feels like exactly the type of lynch that the Darkfriends want; an easy target, one that everyone will suspect, and that they can argue for without implicating themselves. 

On the other hand, we've had a few people try to defend Ruon. Lomion even brought up his own defense (which I view as something that could easily be faked) to try to help clear him. 

 

I'm not saying that every lynch of a Darkfriend will be opposed, but consider their position right now. They've already lost one powerful role. Giving up another one of their members will put them in a very unfavorable position.

 

Ba'Alzamon's lynch just seems too easily agreed upon, IMO. Now, granted, he still could be Fain as I brought up on Day 1. But I don't think he's likely a Darkfriend. 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Jak sat in his new alley, away from prying eyes and accusing stares. It's not my fault that wolves attacked some of the villagers! he thought. Even though they had been able to catch a Darkfriend just the other day, the wolf attack had everyone on edge, and as the new Mayor, he'd have to try and set things right. But how do I fix a wolf problem? It's not natural how they just killed those 2 people and left. Something is going on. Something much bigger than a few Darkfriends in town.

 

With a sense of dread following him wherever he went, he decided that for once in his life, the shadows weren't a safe place to be. He eventually concluded that a rooftop would be the safest place to stay, if there were gonna be any more wolf attacks. I just hope it doesn't rain anytime soon. I've never liked rain much. he thought as he found a place to survey the town to look for a resting place.

 

Jak hefted himself up onto a low hanging rooftop, with his belongings tied to his back. He looked over the small village, not focusing on any one thing. This village is worth helping, he thought. I may not be much of a hero or even a Mayor, but I'll do what I can. Maybe then I can be left alone. He picked a rooftop that looked like it would be a good place to bed down for the night and hopped down off of the rooftop he'd been on. He began to mumble to himself as he brushed himself off from the fall. "Maybe I'll go around town and talk to the villagers some before I head over there. I guess I owe them that much as Mayor. I should go talk to Lorien. Maybe he saw something during the Night when he was on his patrols." Jak set off towards the center of the village to look for Lorien, determined to get to the bottom of whatever was going on in this town.

 

                                                                                                                                                 

 

Conq, feel free to find Jak wandering around looking for you or if you don't have time to do the RP or whatever, I'll just distract him somehow. Or if someone else wants to find him, that's fine too. I'm gonna try and actually RP a bit more this game, just to try it out.

Edited June 7, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Conquestor he/him]

The new mayor, Jak, came around looking for him. So, Lorien turned around and went over to talk to him. "Yes sir?" Asked Lorien. "I need to know if you saw anything last night," Jak said. "When I was patrolling around town, I saw two human shaped things, hunched over something. As I approached, I saw one of their faces." Lorien said, a look of fear on his face. "They were werewolves, sir and I am sure they will hunt again," Lorien said fearfully.

[Young Bard he/him]

Sorry Bugsy, I got confused with you and Seonid. That's what you get from trying to hold 20,000 pieces of information inside your head without writing anything down. Bugsy, were you the one who said Nyali and I were the two most suspicious players in the game? *sigh*

 

Meta - You seem to be suggesting that continuing to vote for me will generate further discussion. I'm sorry, but I'm really not sure how much I can say. I've already told you my version of events, which everyone, except you (even including you? Maybe I'm not understanding what you're trying to say.) has seemed to accept. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for further discussion, but you haven't asked me any more questions - you haven't even attempted to poke a hole in anything I rebutted, and you basically ignored my counter-points in favor of condemning me further because someone else also happened to agree with me. You didn't continue on the conversation you yourself claimed to encourage.

 

Straw - please do scan me, and confirm my role. However, I'd rather you not reveal my alignment unless you feel it's strictly necessary (although, I suppose saying it's not a no-role would clear me of Fain, too, which is nice.) Bear in mind, that if you lie, and I get lynched because of it, then I'll be revealed as a villager, and you'll be a confirmed Eliminator or Corrupted because of it. (Sorry to play hardball about this, but I get paranoid when I haven't had enough sleep.)

[little wilson she/her]

Meta, I'm pretty sure that I said back on day one that you were throwing out possible links between players to see how they would respond, and I even said last night again that I thought you were just gauging reactions, so I don't think you confirming that is going to really make much of a difference. Do I think you've gone a little overboard with it at times? Yeah, but you're trying to get reactions so I can see why you'd go extreme.

 

Honestly Keland, I'm surprised that you're making as big of a deal out of what I said. I explained all of this to you in the PM and I specifically said that I don't give the reason much weight. Definitely not enough to actually accuse you of being Fain. But, then you get so defensive of it that you're causing me to wonder if, as I said above, I might've hit a bit too close to home for your liking. 

 

The difference between the two is that your question in the PM was only half-serious and I'd thought it was a complete joke at the time. You knew that if I actually was Fain, I wasn't going to answer it and if I did, it would be in the negative, and you knew I'd probably do the same if I wasn't Fain. So I ignored the question at first because it was pointless to answer. Then you brought it up again, so I gave you what you wanted: a negative, and you responded exactly how I thought you would: that I responded exactly how you thought I would so you didn't learn anything. Which was exactly why I didn't respond in the first place.

 

And now you're agreeing with Elodin's accusation about me. Sure, you don't put much weight in your thoughts (so you claim), but according to his accusation, he does. What do you think validating his thought process is going to do? Especially when you don't even comment on the absurdity of some of his claims on me. You know his "evidence" on me is pure bogus, but instead of saying anything about it, you validate him. Either you're doing it because you're considering the possibility of me being Fain more seriously than you claim or you're still trying to get a reaction out of me. Either way, you're not going to get the reaction that you want, because I've know what you're doing since you started it. And if you keep trying to get a reaction out of me, I will go full-on troll mode on you, and then you won't get anywhere with me. So knock it off and start being genuine.

 

And I shouldn't even have to comment on that last bit about my defensiveness. You know that's my usual playstyle. It's not alignment-indicative in any way. At one point, it was, but that alignment indication was exactly the opposite of what you're trying to say it is. I'm not your usual "ignore the accusations if I'm good" type of player. I've always gone uber-defensive. You know that. So why are you saying that my uber-defensiveness now is because I'm likely to be Fain? It's not. Though I'm so tempted to just fakeclaim Fain still.

 

Actually, no, you know what? Fine. You guys want me to claim Fain, I will: Yes, I'm Padan Fain. Kill me. But it will never stop my conversions because everyone is Padan Fain.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Sucks about Nyali I hope they can work it out... 

 

As I have been reading through peoples arguments I am seeing reasonable suspicion on people I have already had some concern over, in my notes from D1 I indicated Bard, Bugsy and Elodin seemed as though they were trying to divert the vote away from Sart at the last minute, although I felt that I had good reason to suspect Straw at the time these have been my top suspects since the end of D1.  I was going to try and do a full on analysis of everyone but not only do I just not have enough time >.> I also don't think my opinion counts for much at this point so I don't really want to waste my time putting it all down here.

 

For now I am going to put a vote on Bugsy because I agree with meta (who I feel trusting of at this point) that the lack of defense for Elodin is suspicious as well.  Although hes still on my list I find it very odd that its been so easy to point the finger at him. 

 

I'm throwing my vote out there now because I have another 12 hour work day today and I'm afraid I wont be able to be on a lot through out the day ( I keep the window open but trust me I am not always looking at it).  I tend to jump on mobile and skim through the posts as often as I can as well, but I don't always have time to write a well thought out response.. I have been keeping some notes for myself however so I am doing my best to pay attention.  Its the end of the school year and I am insanely busy right now so bare with me!  If I hop on to change my vote later I will do my best to write out a well thought explanation as to why I am changing it if I have time.

 

Edit: spelling mistakes

Edited June 8, 2016 by jaimeleecee