Long Game 17: Heronfall

[STINK]

Mailliw

[TheMightyLopen]

Well I did a quick read through of the first Cycle, but nothing really stood out to me much. Anamaximder voted on Arraenae for voting on Ripple so fast(Rae voted on Ripple with the first post of the game). At that point, there isn't any reason to defend anyone unless you know they're on your team. Anamaximder has previously voted just to get things rolling, so that's a bit odd that he would vote for someone for that. Maybe it's nothing, I can't ever tell too good with him.

 

I think I'll go through the player list and see if I can find someone who I think is trying to keep a low profile or something. I don't remember seeing Araris post anything for awhile now, so I'll send a vote his way. Araris, I've seen you online a couple times I think, and you didn't vote on Day 1. Orlok

[Amanuensis]

Please excuse my posts lack of justification, for I am currently typing this on my mobile. Now that MR11 is over I can put my full effort into this game, so expect me to get a lot more involved from here on out. I am about to go to sleep now but the first thing on my agenda for when I wake up will be to read everything I've missed (barely paid attention to the first cycle, especially D1) and conduct as much analysis as I can. Thank you all for your patience and understanding.

[Kynedath]

Fine. If STINK gets to go on a mission because he isn't special, then so should I! I have no specialty either. Just saying for next mission.

[Elithanathile]

I'm not so sure the attack on Burnt was "random." I've been on an eliminator team before in games, and we'd plan out exactly who we would attack, in which order, and our usual targets were people who had experience, but who didn't stand out too much. Also, preferably someone that had voted in a way that would incriminate someone else. So if the eliminators are using the same logic, that narrows down their next targets by quite a bit. I don't know too much about the players, but I'd say a tentative list of their targets might be:

 

Phattemer

Orlok
Clanky

LUNA(After successfully pulling off a mission.)(Very tentative.)

Ripple

Bridge Boy (At least I'd like to think so. I've been in it for a while, but usually don't add too much.)

Hellscythe

Adavantos(Experienced, but just came in after MR11 so hasn't done much so far.)

Anamaximder (Used to be Venture Mistborn, who was a pretty good player, but the new name throws people off, so it might work for them.)

 

Again, this is just a list of who I think potential targets may be. Of course, now that I've put this out there, this might lead to the eliminators changing their strategy and not go after those people, or they could double-bluff and do it after all.

 

P.S. What's up with that tag? What did I do? Did I get a thing? Is it a cookie!?

[TheMightyLopen]

Why do you want to go on a mission so bad? It was so lonely. . . 

 

Edit: 2 hours between posts, and I'm typing 1 sentence...and I get ninja'd.

Edited February 11, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Wyrmhero]

The Turn will end in 25 hours, but that's not what I'm here for .

 

To answer Bridge's question, Shadowrun joke >>.

 

And now, for another question sent in by a player, who wished to remain anonymous. To clarify, the Well-Connected ability can be used on people who don't vote. I am considering a no-vote to be a form of voting in this game for this purpose.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Wyrmhero

[TheSilverDragon]

I'm on mobile so no Star Thief RP.

I'd like to see who has been inactive, or has everyone's been active?

[Clanky]

So I have tried to go back and look for a good vote target but nobody really has stood out to me. However with the amount of discussion we've had that isn't surprising. Mostly I see Lopen attempting to find out who an eliminator is from Burnts death to be an exercise if futility and might be the most suspicious thing I have seen yet. But since he is at least talking I don't think that will be the best way to promote discussion. 

 

Also about Briddge Boys list of potential trader target could mean something but I doubt it will do anything to change how the traitors approach the kill or how anyone really uses the protective abilities but once again at least he is talking a bit. Also that avatar is making me confuse Bridge Boy with Phatt, so similar!

 

So my best bet I've come up with for a vote then is Anamaximder, You haven't posted since the first cycle and all you did was vote for Arraenae and didn't even respond after she responded to your poke vote. However you have been posting other places on the shard.

[Mailliw73]

Wyrm, does that mean No-vote is an actual potential for a vote? I mean, if there are a majority of no votes, does that mean there's no votes?

[Hellscythe]

I'm not so sure the attack on Burnt was "random." I've been on an eliminator team before in games, and we'd plan out exactly who we would attack, in which order, and our usual targets were people who had experience, but who didn't stand out too much. Also, preferably someone that had voted in a way that would incriminate someone else. So if the eliminators are using the same logic, that narrows down their next targets by quite a bit. I don't know too much about the players, but I'd say a tentative list of their targets might be:

 

Phattemer

Orlok

Clanky

LUNA(After successfully pulling off a mission.)(Very tentative.)

Ripple

Bridge Boy (At least I'd like to think so. I've been in it for a while, but usually don't add too much.)

Hellscythe

Adavantos(Experienced, but just came in after MR11 so hasn't done much so far.)

Anamaximder (Used to be Venture Mistborn, who was a pretty good player, but the new name throws people off, so it might work for them.)

 

Again, this is just a list of who I think potential targets may be. Of course, now that I've put this out there, this might lead to the eliminators changing their strategy and not go after those people, or they could double-bluff and do it after all.

 

P.S. What's up with that tag? What did I do? Did I get a thing? Is it a cookie!?

I'd like to guess Bridge Boy's code word as "tentative".  That list is a little weird in my opinion it seems like misdirection, however it seems a little too obvious that I'm inclined to believe it's not misdirection.

 

In all seriousness, great job on the mission guys I was honestly kind of freaked out that while I was protected from the eliminators killing me straight up (I think right?) there was the possibility of there being an eliminator on the mission giving me a 1/3 chance of dying should they choose to fail the mission. Despite my fears, I'd suggest we keep the same people on the mission.

 

I'd like to hear Stink's reasoning for voting for Mail.

[Amanuensis]

Before I begin I want to apologize for not being more active before today. A part of my strategy in MR11 involved lying low, so I reasoned that if I had participated more here while it was still going on my alignment may have been compromised. It was simply easier for me to avoid this game (and sometimes the forums outright). Now that we’ve won (high fives Kyn, Clanky and Elby) I will start speaking up more.

 

First off, I want to say that I’m happy we didn’t lynch anyone last cycle, despite the fact that I know we could have benefited from putting some pressure on people. I might be wrong about this (will have to conduct some research to confirm this) but I believe that eliminators seldom get involved with the lynch on the first day since villagers are typically paranoid enough to accuse and gang up on one another when they have limited information to work with.

 

As for Burnt’s death, I’m not sure what to make of it, though I suspect it had something to do with how many PMs she initiated. I think it would be useful if everyone says whether or not she began a conversation with you and what you two discussed.

 

Personally, Burnt messaged me approximately 14 hours before the Night Turn ended. I did not read it, however, until after the turn ended, therefore I don’t have anything of import to add in that regard.

 

Currently the player I trust the most is STINK and the player I trust the least is luckat. For the most part everyone else is still in that gray, neutral area, however my attention has also been drawn to Anamax, Lopen, Mailliw / LUNA and Hellscythe.

 

Reason I trust STINK at all is because of something that involves our conversation during last cycle’s planning phase. I would explain but for now would rather not as that information is relatively sensitive.

 

I am suspicious of luckat mostly for her last post regarding the Vigenère cipher. This is based off of personal preference, however, so try not to take it to heart. I just don’t think it’s a good idea for us to implement something like that because while the information transferred remains unknown to the Traitors it also highlights who they need to target. I am more a fan of systems that disguise themselves as ordinary posts. The only way I could see it working is if literally everyone used the Vigenère cipher (whether or not it is really directed at anybody specific or contains real info) to throw the eliminators off the trail of whoever’s actually using it. I also have a theory that the true reason she asked Wyrm if players on the mission could use PMs was because she wanted to know if her and her teammates could use their doc if selected. Wyrm’s response was open enough (“but all communication to and from people on the mission must cease during the Night Action Turn”) that maybe he figured out what she truly wanted knowing with the context of her alignment. Of course it can easily be argued that if she truly were a Traitor she would just keep her questions to the doc, but I think she asked in thread to gain a subconscious trust, as (I don’t know if others react the same) I tend to overlook players that ask the GM helpful questions.

 

Anamax I am suspicious of for calling the kettle black. Last two games he played (AG2 and QF12) I am pretty sure he came in and threw a baseless poke vote on Lopen. Him voting for Arraenae for doing the exact same thing seems hypocrtical to me.

 

While I don’t agree with Elkanah voting for Lopen D1 for playing differently than he usually does, I do think that a couple things he have said were suspect. Mostly the comment about him listening more instead of making plans and his strange vote on Orlok this cycle. Normally he has no trouble coming up with ideas, unfamiliar with a mechanic or not, and usually he is a lot better at articulating himself.

 

I also do not entirely agree with Stink’s D1 analysis of Mailliw, however I also find it interesting how he came to LUNA’s defense regarding who she selected for the first mission. I am also somewhat wary of LUNA due to her choices, but I also don’t think it’s wise for me to ask her the questions that I want to, as she may have a genuinely wise reason. However, in the case of STINK and Lopen in particular, I’m curious if she’s a Traitor who (knowing STINK and Lopen are good) chose them because her team suspected they had dangerous roles and were worth being blocked.

 

Finally, I noticed that Hellscythe said that he had ideas regarding the mission and that he would explain them during the planning phase, but never did. Now that it’s D2 can you please elaborate?

Edited February 11, 2016 by Adavantos

[STINK]

 

 

I'd like to hear Stink's reasoning for voting for Mail.

 

After my big (for me) post explaining why I thought we should of lynched Mailliw, he did say that he was busy during D1 and I was fine with that. But (unless I'm forgetting) did he ever actually respond to the points I made?

 

Also, I don't really see why Mailliw explained LUNA's actions, unless he was covering for LUNA as there was a different reason. 

 

I know for a fact that I was throwing my role around in PMs loads, but never to LUNA, as our PM was only the beginning of what my PMs with everyone basically is, the 'Hi' and 'How are ya?'. Considering Mailliw decided to explain LUNA's actions, I don't feel bad saying that he most likely told LUNA all the claims that he got. Yes, you can say that it's important because LUNA was the leader, but isn't this taking it a bit too far? 

 

I'm willing to give LUNA another chance, but Mailliw is an experienced player, and if he is a Villager then I'll feel bad (but not that much), but seeing as he has a whole reputation around just spreading lies and such to get as much information, it's quite an okay rep to fall back on for any suspicious actions that are taken, so yeah.

 

Can we just lynch him?

 

 

Reason I trust STINK at all is because of something that involves our conversation during last cycle’s planning phase. I would explain but for now would rather not as that information is relatively sensitive.

 

*checks PM*

[Arrae]

Klyn, are you sure you aren't drunkenly accusing innocents? The mission was successful -- this is a time for celebration, not accusation!

 

 

So my best bet I've come up with for a vote then is Anamaximder, You haven't posted since the first cycle and all you did was vote for Arraenae and didn't even respond after she responded to your poke vote. However you have been posting other places on the shard.

I'd like to point out that this is normal behavior for Anamax. In both the AG and QF12, he voted on someone D1 with little explanation, and was lynched for it. In both the AG and QF12, he was found innocent.

 

Anamax's behavior might not be ideal, but at least it is consistent.

 

Clanky, I don't think your reason for voting has been thought out very thoroughly.

[LUNA]

After my big (for me) post explaining why I thought we should of lynched Mailliw, he did say that he was busy during D1 and I was fine with that. But (unless I'm forgetting) did he ever actually respond to the points I made?

 

Also, I don't really see why Mailliw explained LUNA's actions, unless he was covering for LUNA as there was a different reason. 

 

I know for a fact that I was throwing my role around in PMs loads, but never to LUNA, as our PM was only the beginning of what my PMs with everyone basically is, the 'Hi' and 'How are ya?'. Considering Mailliw decided to explain LUNA's actions, I don't feel bad saying that he most likely told LUNA all the claims that he got. Yes, you can say that it's important because LUNA was the leader, but isn't this taking it a bit too far? 

 

I'm willing to give LUNA another chance, but Mailliw is an experienced player, and if he is a Villager then I'll feel bad (but not that much), but seeing as he has a whole reputation around just spreading lies and such to get as much information, it's quite an okay rep to fall back on for any suspicious actions that are taken, so yeah.

 

Can we just lynch him?

 

Alright let's just take a second here. 

 

First of all, I'm just as clueless as to why Maill explained my actions, other than he would have done the same thing had he been in my position. 

Second of all, he might have just said what he said, simply because I am still very new to this game and he felt bad for me. I really don't know. But I do know that we do NOT want to lynch him.

 

I am a little confused as to why this has upset you as much as it has, but aight. whatever.

[Mailliw73]

I also do not entirely agree with Stink’s D1 analysis of Mailliw, however I also find it interesting how he came to LUNA’s defense regarding who she selected for the first mission. I am also somewhat wary of LUNA due to her choices, but I also don’t think it’s wise for me to ask her the questions that I want to, as she may have a genuinely wise reason. However, in the case of STINK and Lopen in particular, I’m curious if she’s a Traitor who (knowing STINK and Lopen are good) chose them because her team suspected they had dangerous roles and were worth being blocked.

Defense gets thrown around way too often here. I did not defend Luna. All I did was offer up a potential explanation for one of her choices. That's it. Since Stink and Lopen both claimed No Specialty to many people, I highly doubt anyone would have put them on the mission thinking that they had important roles.

 

After my big (for me) post explaining why I thought we should of lynched Mailliw, he did say that he was busy during D1 and I was fine with that. But (unless I'm forgetting) did he ever actually respond to the points I made?

 

Also, I don't really see why Mailliw explained LUNA's actions, unless he was covering for LUNA as there was a different reason. 

 

I know for a fact that I was throwing my role around in PMs loads, but never to LUNA, as our PM was only the beginning of what my PMs with everyone basically is, the 'Hi' and 'How are ya?'. Considering Mailliw decided to explain LUNA's actions, I don't feel bad saying that he most likely told LUNA all the claims that he got. Yes, you can say that it's important because LUNA was the leader, but isn't this taking it a bit too far? 

 

I'm willing to give LUNA another chance, but Mailliw is an experienced player, and if he is a Villager then I'll feel bad (but not that much), but seeing as he has a whole reputation around just spreading lies and such to get as much information, it's quite an okay rep to fall back on for any suspicious actions that are taken, so yeah.

 

Can we just lynch him?

Remind me what those points were, please. 

 

See above paragraph. 

 

How was it taking it too far, since, by all accounts, you were claiming to most people? You're right, I did suggest she send you. In fact, she seemed to take my suggestion for the team exactly. She sent the same people I suggested. But, I did not reveal any role claims to her. In fact, she never even replied to my PM, though she read it. I don't spread claims around like that unless they are inconsequential or are important for someone to know. 

 

That's an awful misinterpretation of what I do. Maybe when I'm neutral and Survival, yes. As a Villager, no. I might lie, yes, and I might try to get information, but I don't just spread lies everywhere. That's, quite frankly, a stupid idea for anyone. 

 

I'm still not sure why you want me dead so bad.

[STINK]

Mailliw.

Obvious White Text is obvious. I dunno why I wanted Mailliw dead. The art of Tunneling is a mysterious one.

[Elbereth]

Unfortunately, I have come down sick. Unlike travelling (where I will attempt to be on as much as possible, so there isn't too much change in activity), this means I cut everything except the absolutely necessary from my life. This includes SE, sadly. I wanted to finish up MR11, but now that it's done don't expect to see anything of me until at least Saturday. Sorry!

[TheMightyLopen]

Wyrm, does that mean No-vote is an actual potential for a vote? I mean, if there are a majority of no votes, does that mean there's no votes?

 

Do you mean if there's a majority of no votes, will there not be a lynch? (Just figured I should clarify your request for clarification.  )

 

 

Before I begin I want to apologize for not being more active before today. A part of my strategy in MR11 involved lying low, so I reasoned that if I had participated more here while it was still going on my alignment may have been compromised. It was simply easier for me to avoid this game (and sometimes the forums outright). Now that we’ve won (high fives Kyn, Clanky and Elby) I will start speaking up more.

 

First off, I want to say that I’m happy we didn’t lynch anyone last cycle, despite the fact that I know we could have benefited from putting some pressure on people. I might be wrong about this (will have to conduct some research to confirm this) but I believe that eliminators seldom get involved with the lynch on the first day since villagers are typically paranoid enough to accuse and gang up on one another when they have limited information to work with.

 

1. As for Burnt’s death, I’m not sure what to make of it, though I suspect it had something to do with how many PMs she initiated. I think it would be useful if everyone says whether or not she began a conversation with you and what you two discussed.

 

Personally, Burnt messaged me approximately 14 hours before the Night Turn ended. I did not read it, however, until after the turn ended, therefore I don’t have anything of import to add in that regard.

 

2. Currently the player I trust the most is STINK and the player I trust the least is luckat. For the most part everyone else is still in that gray, neutral area, however my attention has also been drawn to Anamax, Lopen, Mailliw / LUNA and Hellscythe.

 

Reason I trust STINK at all is because of something that involves our conversation during last cycle’s planning phase. I would explain but for now would rather not as that information is relatively sensitive.

 

I am suspicious of luckat mostly for her last post regarding the Vigenère cipher. This is based off of personal preference, however, so try not to take it to heart. I just don’t think it’s a good idea for us to implement something like that because while the information transferred remains unknown to the Traitors it also highlights who they need to target. I am more a fan of systems that disguise themselves as ordinary posts. The only way I could see it working is if literally everyone used the Vigenère cipher (whether or not it is really directed at anybody specific or contains real info) to throw the eliminators off the trail of whoever’s actually using it. I also have a theory that the true reason she asked Wyrm if players on the mission could use PMs was because she wanted to know if her and her teammates could use their doc if selected. Wyrm’s response was open enough (“but all communication to and from people on the mission must cease during the Night Action Turn”) that maybe he figured out what she truly wanted knowing with the context of her alignment. Of course it can easily be argued that if she truly were a Traitor she would just keep her questions to the doc, but I think she asked in thread to gain a subconscious trust, as (I don’t know if others react the same) I tend to overlook players that ask the GM helpful questions.

 

Anamax I am suspicious of for calling the kettle black. Last two games he played (AG2 and QF12) I am pretty sure he came in and threw a baseless poke vote on Lopen. Him voting for Arraenae for doing the exact same thing seems hypocrtical to me.

 

3. While I don’t agree with Elkanah voting for Lopen D1 for playing differently than he usually does, I do think that a couple things he have said were suspect. Mostly the comment about him listening more instead of making plans and his strange vote on Orlok this cycle. Normally he has no trouble coming up with ideas, unfamiliar with a mechanic or not, and usually he is a lot better at articulating himself.

 

I also do not entirely agree with Stink’s D1 analysis of Mailliw, however I also find it interesting how he came to LUNA’s defense regarding who she selected for the first mission. I am also somewhat wary of LUNA due to her choices, but I also don’t think it’s wise for me to ask her the questions that I want to, as she may have a genuinely wise reason. However, in the case of STINK and Lopen in particular, I’m curious if she’s a Traitor who (knowing STINK and Lopen are good) chose them because her team suspected they had dangerous roles and were worth being blocked.

 

Finally, I noticed that Hellscythe said that he had ideas regarding the mission and that he would explain them during the planning phase, but never did. Now that it’s D2 can you please elaborate?

 

(I numbered things so I could more easily respond.)

 

1. Burnt contacted me. At first we were just talking about some LG16 stuff. Then we discussed about roles and she said she might roleclaim to me later once she had time to determine if I was evil or not. She said she thought that the first mission would succeed, since no Traitors would want suspicion on C2, and asked me what I thought. I agreed with her. After that, we started talking about Resistance and then it kinda spiraled into completely non-game related stuff for about 10 messages or so(as it usually does at some point with us  ).

 

2 and 3. Bro, when have you not been suspicious of me early on?   I did try to give out my idea's I'd had for the mission. I just didn't have a particularly good idea(and still don't) for how we should approach who we choose for the missions overall, and figured since others have actual experience with this type of mechanic, I'd listen to their opinions/advice and decide what I thought would be the best idea from that, since they would know better than me, imo. I haven't thought about it too much lately, since I was focusing on MR11 for the last little bit. I don't know how I could articulate any more than I did about a hunch.

 

Ada, are you gonna vote on anyone? For that matter, what about a whole lot of players? I can understand not having a C1 lynch, but at some point we need to get going with the voting and the lynching and stuff. Here's a vote tally:

 

Araris(1): Lopen{2}

Anamaximder(1): Clanky

Clanky(1): Arraenae

STINK(1): Hellscythe

Mailliw(0): STINK

Orlok(0): Lopen{1}

 

Whew! Compiling all SIX of those votes was so much work! 

 

Also, that's an interesting question about Traitors on the Mission. Wyrm, if a Traitor is selected to go on a mission, are they allowed to get on their doc and talk there during the mission?

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and get well soon Elbereth!!

Edited February 12, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Mailliw73]

Do you mean if there's a majority of no votes, will there not be a lynch? (Just figured I should clarify your request for clarification.  )

Exactly. I wasn't thinking very straight when I wrote that.

[Arrae]

Barteender, gimne nuther TCollims. Aint drunk. Swear on Cervivors bones.

 

*fumbles with tablet*

 

*hits send*

 

*sees new text*

 

Niter, this is your brother Mallory. Are you drunk?

 

No sersly. Just happi lol.

 

*send*

 

*takes another swig*

 

Where do you live then?

 

n a overstuffed dorm with losta spikies + wires.

 

Niter, I'm going to pick you up. You're at that bar, right? Stay where you are.

 

*drops tablet*

 

*can't reach*

 

*gives up*

 

Oh dear. Niter's drunk and about to have his head bitten off by his brother. I would not want to be him.

[Amanuensis]

Ada, are you gonna vote on anyone? For that matter, what about a whole lot of players? I can understand not having a C1 lynch, but at some point we need to get going with the voting and the lynching and stuff. Here's a vote tally:

 

I will vote, just haven't decided on who yet. I was going to base it on luckat / Anamax / your / Mailliw / Luna / HS' response to my post but a few still haven't addressed it, so =[ I would also like to point out that both Shallan and phattemer have been MIA. Not sure if they've been on or not, though that doesn't necessarily excuse them from being evil. I feel most strongly about luckat though that's only because I tend to expect her to give a lot better advice to the village. Usually I agree with everything she says and learn something valuable from it, but so far her posts in this game don't seem very helpful (to me) nor feel genuine, as if she's just filling the expectation.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Adavantos

[luckat]

I am suspicious of luckat mostly for her last post regarding the Vigenère cipher. This is based off of personal preference, however, so try not to take it to heart. I just don’t think it’s a good idea for us to implement something like that because while the information transferred remains unknown to the Traitors it also highlights who they need to target. I am more a fan of systems that disguise themselves as ordinary posts. The only way I could see it working is if literally everyone used the Vigenère cipher (whether or not it is really directed at anybody specific or contains real info) to throw the eliminators off the trail of whoever’s actually using it.

It only highlights who the eliminators need to target if people only use it in situations where the eliminators would want to target them. The Vigenère cipher is a tool that can be used well or poorly. I hope it will expand communication beyond what is possible with PMs. PMs are generally considered useful for the village, and I think this can be useful too. Nearly everyone using it (or faking it) is exactly how I want this to be used. I know there are drawbacks and people might not want to use it or might think it takes too much time. But I wanted to give it a try sometime.

I agree that systems that appear as ordinary posts are better for sharing sensitive information. However they are extremely limited in that the information that can be shared must be established beforehand. They take a fair amount of setup, and I can’t think of a way to make one for everyone. I hope people who have very important information to share will try using a more subtle code that is better hidden and possibly easier to decode and harder to break. However, what I am proposing can be used by anyone to share any information with little to no prior setup.

This is just an idea I had. I think it will be more helpful for us than for the Traitors. I am hopeful the players will be able to use it well. I could be wrong. I think it is worth it to give it a test run, and this is a good game to test it in since everyone can PM at night and there are no PMs during the day.

I don’t get why you are suspicious of me for trying to expand communication options. People can use it or not use it as they see fit, and they don’t have to use it for information the eliminators would kill for. It you think it is a bad idea, say so, and perhaps give other ideas. But why on earth Scadrial are you suspicious of me for suggesting using a cipher that I originally brought up in a game when I was good?

 

I also have a theory that the true reason she asked Wyrm if players on the mission could use PMs was because she wanted to know if her and her teammates could use their doc if selected. Wyrm’s response was open enough (“but all communication to and from people on the mission must cease during the Night Action Turn”) that maybe he figured out what she truly wanted knowing with the context of her alignment. Of course it can easily be argued that if she truly were a Traitor she would just keep her questions to the doc, but I think she asked in thread to gain a subconscious trust, as (I don’t know if others react the same) I tend to overlook players that ask the GM helpful questions.

If I actually meant to ask about Traitors communicating in a doc, I would have asked about Traitors communicating in a doc. Why would you even think that’s what I secretly meant when the question I actually asked was a legitimate question that wasn’t addressed in the opening rules? Why would the GM openly hint at someone’s alignment like that or “answer” an unasked question in a way that doesn’t clearly give the answer? When I ask a GM a question, I ask them the question I mean, and I take that answer for the question I asked. I do not secretly mean something else--if there is another aspect to the question, I ask about that part as well because the GM cannot read my mind. As you can infer from my followup question, if I had been thinking about the eliminator doc, I would have asked about that as well. I also do not assume the GM’s answer refers to a situation they may not have been thinking about when looking only at the question at hand.

Now, it is possible I also asked him about the doc in private. I do not ask questions that pertain to my role or alignment in the thread (unless they are part of a long list of other questions). I ask them in my PM with the GM. However, I did not ask about this one. In fact, it didn’t even cross my mind. I think everyone has been assuming the eliminators have perfect communication, even while on missions, and can therefore plan how many fails there are if there is more than one of them along. I agree with Lopen that clarification on that would be nice.

You say you tend to overlook players who ask the GM questions, but now I think you are swinging way too far in the other direction. So someone who is openly trying to figure out how the game works is just trying to gain trust? Honestly, I have usually asked questions via PM in the past. I am making an attempt at asking questions that are useful for everyone in the thread instead of only in private because I think asking the questions openly is better for the village, not because I sneakily want to gain trust. I want to make sure those answers make it to the thread (because they don’t always) and I want to make it clear how I am spending my time (so people don’t think I’m going inactive and so they have an idea of what is on my mind). Please don’t make me regret trying to make the rule clarifications I ask for more transparent.

Also, if I’m your top suspect why didn’t you vote for me?

 

I will vote, just haven't decided on who yet. I was going to base it on luckat / Anamax / your / Mailliw / Luna / HS' response to my post but a few still haven't addressed it, so =[ I would also like to point out that both Shallan and phattemer have been MIA. Not sure if they've been on or not, though that doesn't necessarily excuse them from being evil. I feel most strongly about luckat though that's only because I tend to expect her to give a lot better advice to the village. Usually I agree with everything she says and learn something valuable from it, but so far her posts in this game don't seem very helpful (to me) nor feel genuine, as if she's just filling the expectation rather than being genuine.

Shallan was last on during Day 1--regardless of her alignment, she couldn't have sent in orders during the night. Phatt was on earlier today, but he was off during the entire night except for the first few minutes of the planning phase. He technically could have sent in an order if it didn't require info from the night. Both Ripple and Anamax have been about as quiet as Phatt, but they were on the Shard at least enough to send in orders. (I doubt I'll actually have time to check activity levels every cycle like that.)

 

Sorry I can't come up with brilliant ideas at the start of every game. What do you want me to do, go through and give suggestions to every role? I don't think I have the time or energy for anything intelligent right now.

[Wyrmhero]

Wyrm, does that mean No-vote is an actual potential for a vote? I mean, if there are a majority of no votes, does that mean there's no votes?

 

Good point, and no. I merely meant that 'no vote' can be changed by someone Well-Connected.

 

To answer Lopen's question, the Eliminators are allowed to talk on their doc when they are on a mission.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Wyrmhero

[Amanuensis]

It only highlights who the eliminators need to target if people only use it in situations where the eliminators would want to target them. The Vigenère cipher is a tool that can be used well or poorly. I hope it will expand communication beyond what is possible with PMs. PMs are generally considered useful for the village, and I think this can be useful too. Nearly everyone using it (or faking it) is exactly how I want this to be used. I know there are drawbacks and people might not want to use it or might think it takes too much time. But I wanted to give it a try sometime.

I agree that systems that appear as ordinary posts are better for sharing sensitive information. However they are extremely limited in that the information that can be shared must be established beforehand. They take a fair amount of setup, and I can’t think of a way to make one for everyone. I hope people who have very important information to share will try using a more subtle code that is better hidden and possibly easier to decode and harder to break. However, what I am proposing can be used by anyone to share any information with little to no prior setup.

This is just an idea I had. I think it will be more helpful for us than for the Traitors. I am hopeful the players will be able to use it well. I could be wrong. I think it is worth it to give it a test run, and this is a good game to test it in since everyone can PM at night and there are no PMs during the day.

I don’t get why you are suspicious of me for trying to expand communication options. People can use it or not use it as they see fit, and they don’t have to use it for information the eliminators would kill for. It you think it is a bad idea, say so, and perhaps give other ideas. But why on earth Scadrial are you suspicious of me for suggesting using a cipher that I originally brought up in a game when I was good?

 

Ah, okay. So this boils down to me misunderstanding your intent. I thought you were suggesting it be used for sensitive information, not general communication. That being said, I don't really understand what it could be used other than for something like a Hacker informing a proxy that a player they scanned is a Traitor (which would defeat the purpose of a proxy in the first place), which is why I don't think its very wise. In regards for me being suspicious for it, I'll go ahead and acknowledge that in a second.

 

If I actually meant to ask about Traitors communicating in a doc, I would have asked about Traitors communicating in a doc. Why would you even think that’s what I secretly meant when the question I actually asked was a legitimate question that wasn’t addressed in the opening rules? Why would the GM openly hint at someone’s alignment like that or “answer” an unasked question in a way that doesn’t clearly give the answer? When I ask a GM a question, I ask them the question I mean, and I take that answer for the question I asked. I do not secretly mean something else--if there is another aspect to the question, I ask about that part as well because the GM cannot read my mind. As you can infer from my followup question, if I had been thinking about the eliminator doc, I would have asked about that as well. I also do not assume the GM’s answer refers to a situation they may not have been thinking about when looking only at the question at hand.

Now, it is possible I also asked him about the doc in private. I do not ask questions that pertain to my role or alignment in the thread (unless they are part of a long list of other questions). I ask them in my PM with the GM. However, I did not ask about this one. In fact, it didn’t even cross my mind. I think everyone has been assuming the eliminators have perfect communication, even while on missions, and can therefore plan how many fails there are if there is more than one of them along. I agree with Lopen that clarification on that would be nice.

You say you tend to overlook players who ask the GM questions, but now I think you are swinging way too far in the other direction. So someone who is openly trying to figure out how the game works is just trying to gain trust? Honestly, I have usually asked questions via PM in the past. I am making an attempt at asking questions that are useful for everyone in the thread instead of only in private because I think asking the questions openly is better for the village, not because I sneakily want to gain trust. I want to make sure those answers make it to the thread (because they don’t always) and I want to make it clear how I am spending my time (so people don’t think I’m going inactive and so they have an idea of what is on my mind). Please don’t make me regret trying to make the rule clarifications I ask for more transparent.

 

That statement was more of a product of paranoia than anything else. Issue is that I could see an eliminator doing something like that and wanted to point out the possibility while at the same time addressing a thought that crossed my mind while reading Wyrm's answer. I guess I should apologize if I insulted you; that post wasn't meant to be an attack on your character, I just saw things differently and wanted to see how you'd respond to the challenge.

 

Also, if I’m your top suspect why didn’t you vote for me?

 

It's not that you're necessarily my top "suspect." You just said things that I did not agree with because I could see how they could benefit the Traitors more than the village. If I had voted for you that would be me saying something along the lines of "you're wrong and I'm right" which I don't agree with. I just expressed my opinion on the matter and my concern that you might be an eliminator trying to disguise a suggestion that would harm us as something that would help. Considering it's only D2 and there was no lynch last cycle I don't have many leads to pursue, and certainly none that I feel strongly enough about to vote.

 

Shallan was last on during Day 1--regardless of her alignment, she couldn't have sent in orders during the night. Phatt was on earlier today, but he was off during the entire night except for the first few minutes of the planning phase. He technically could have sent in an order if it didn't require info from the night. Both Ripple and Anamax have been about as quiet as Phatt, but they were on the Shard at least enough to send in orders. (I doubt I'll actually have time to check activity levels every cycle like that.)

 

Assuming that information is accurate, that is very useful to know. Thank you. Besides LUNA, everyone here should know how I feel about lurkers. Of course, in the case of the players mentioned in this paragraph, the only one who is not habitually inactive is Ripple.

 

Sorry I can't come up with brilliant ideas at the start of every game. What do you want me to do, go through and give suggestions to every role? I don't think I have the time or energy for anything intelligent right now.

 

Once again I want to apologize if I insulted you. That was not my intent. I will admit it was wrong of me to expect anything of you. Though in a way I believe it was a necessary evil. I learn a lot more from players when I generate friction against them. Personally I don't find poke votes as useful as challenging them to see how they react. I also don't like voting for a player in a post where I address multiple people as it might make the others think they don't need to respond.

 

Might as well include a disclaimer with this: if I confront you for something it's never meant to be personal. I'm just trying to gather info the only way I can and in an environment where others can bear witness to the results.

 

Good point, and no. I merely meant that 'no vote' can be changed by someone Well-Connected.

 

To answer Lopen's question, the Eliminators are allowed to talk on their doc when they are on a mission.

 

My bad luckat =\ at the time I thought I was being clever catching something that other people might have overlooked. Knowing that I did not interpret Wyrm's answer correctly, I retract my suspicion of you. My opinion on the cipher still stands, though. Maybe it'd help me if you could suggest some things it could be used for besides passing sensitive information.