The Official Thread of Relationships

[marsoupial they/them]

41 minutes ago, Delightful said:

I'm just impressed at the wearing a suit jacket to high school thing. That's a wee bit crazy. 

Some advice that works well in moderation: it's not your business what anyone else thinks of you. Do your own thing. Hang out with the people you want to, be polite and respectful to everyone else, if they're all secretly crushing on you that's not your problem. 

I stopped wearing a suit coat, but I couldn't bring myself to part with my vests...

And yeah, that's basically how I live nowadays. Doing my own thing, and just chilling is my way of life. Thanks, Del.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Current relationship status: Had a buy-one-get-one Chipotle coupon left in my apartment door. The back said "Bring this card and a friend into any Chipotle location, and we'll hook you up with buy-one-get-one burritos, bowls, tacos or salads." I googled the coupon to see if I really had to bring someone in with me. 

[Assassin in Burgundy he/him]

Ok people. I kind of have a problem. Last year, this girl and I liked each other, but over the summer I found out that she was homophobic. I have several gay friends, and I really don't know what to do. She is pretty cool, but I don't want to really associate with her any more. I don't think that she knows that I know, and so it's kind of awkward at times. What should I do?

[Mestiv he/him]

22 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Current relationship status: Had a buy-one-get-one Chipotle coupon left in my apartment door. The back said "Bring this card and a friend into any Chipotle location, and we'll hook you up with buy-one-get-one burritos, bowls, tacos or salads." I googled the coupon to see if I really had to bring someone in with me. 

Take Bruce with you?

[Orlion Blight he/him]

2 minutes ago, Mestiv said:

Take Bruce with you?

And risk him getting some terrible E coli disease from there? Heaven forfend!

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

4 minutes ago, Mestiv said:

Take Bruce with you?

I would if I could, but dogs aren't allowed in most restaurants here in the States. 

[Delightful]

33 minutes ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

Ok people. I kind of have a problem. Last year, this girl and I liked each other, but over the summer I found out that she was homophobic. I have several gay friends, and I really don't know what to do. She is pretty cool, but I don't want to really associate with her any more. I don't think that she knows that I know, and so it's kind of awkward at times. What should I do?

Talk to her about it? I'm assuming you're a teen too? Peoples opinions arent set in stone, I know my opinions morph as I learn more. See if you can understand where she's coming from, if she's decent enough that you like her it's probably not blind hate. And it's OK to disagree on things, you just have to decide if this issue is worth losing the relationship over, only you can made make that decision. A

1 hour ago, bleeder said:

I stopped wearing a suit coat, but I couldn't bring myself to part with my vests...

And yeah, that's basically how I live nowadays. Doing my own thing, and just chilling is my way of life. Thanks, Del.

I've been nicknamed! This is an historic day! 

[little wilson she/her]

32 minutes ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

Ok people. I kind of have a problem. Last year, this girl and I liked each other, but over the summer I found out that she was homophobic. I have several gay friends, and I really don't know what to do. She is pretty cool, but I don't want to really associate with her any more. I don't think that she knows that I know, and so it's kind of awkward at times. What should I do?

Question: Does she hate gays or does she just not agree with homosexuality? The word homophobe is often used to describe both groups of people, but only the first group is actually homophobic.

I would concur with Delightful. According to your profile, you're pretty young, and she's probably around your age. A 12-13 year old's opinions and thoughts are still forming. Even if she is a homophobe, that's highly likely to be something she picked up from a parent or a grandparent. Cutting ties with her won't teach her tolerance or love. It will just teach her more hate, because she'll be receiving the same kind of intolerance for her beliefs that she's giving to the gays.

If you're willing to give it a shot and still be her friend, I'd suggest having some kind of game night with a bunch of your friends, and make sure that she and your gay friends are there--but don't announce that they're gay: their sexual orientation isn't relevant to playing games. Eventually she'll find out that they're gay, yes, but it will be after she knows them. It's much harder to hate someone you know and like to be around than it is to hate the mysterious group of people you've never associated with.

Note that you shouldn't be continuing to be her friend solely to change her beliefs or prove to her how wrong she is. Be her friend to be her friend. The thing is that you also have these other friends who you care about as well, and you'd like all of you to be friends together.

Lastly, I want to really emphasize that intolerance should never be responded to in kind. All that does is set people against each other and foster hate. Which is exactly why things in America with race, politics, religion, sexual orientation, gender issues, etc etc etc are as volatile as they are. People want nothing to do with someone who thinks differently than they do, and that doesn't exactly lead to tolerance, love, or kindness and you kind of need all three to compromise. >>

 

[marsoupial they/them]

1 hour ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

Ok people. I kind of have a problem. Last year, this girl and I liked each other, but over the summer I found out that she was homophobic. I have several gay friends, and I really don't know what to do. She is pretty cool, but I don't want to really associate with her any more. I don't think that she knows that I know, and so it's kind of awkward at times. What should I do?

If she can't handle your friends that you hang out with, and if you have conflicting ideologies, then I would talk to her about it, and if she persists, the best thing to do would be to break it off.

I once had to break up with a girl cause she was homophobic and "didn't agree with my lifestyle" as though I could change who I am. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by bleeder

[Assassin in Burgundy he/him]

7 minutes ago, little wilson said:

Question: Does she hate gays or does she just not agree with homosexuality? The word homophobe is often used to describe both groups of people, but only the first group is actually homophobic.

I would concur with Delightful. According to your profile, you're pretty young, and she's probably around your age. A 12-13 year old's opinions and thoughts are still forming. Even if she is a homophobe, that's highly likely to be something she picked up from a parent or a grandparent. Cutting ties with her won't teach her tolerance or love. It will just teach her more hate, because she'll be receiving the same kind of intolerance for her beliefs that she's giving to the gays.

If you're willing to give it a shot and still be her friend, I'd suggest having some kind of game night with a bunch of your friends, and make sure that she and your gay friends are there--but don't announce that they're gay: their sexual orientation isn't relevant to playing games. Eventually she'll find out that they're gay, yes, but it will be after she knows them. It's much harder to hate someone you know and like to be around than it is to hate the mysterious group of people you've never associated with.

Note that you shouldn't be continuing to be her friend solely to change her beliefs or prove to her how wrong she is. Be her friend to be her friend. The thing is that you also have these other friends who you care about as well, and you'd like all of you to be friends together.

Lastly, I want to really emphasize that intolerance should never be responded to in kind. All that does is set people against each other and foster hate. Which is exactly why things in America with race, politics, religion, sexual orientation, gender issues, etc etc etc are as volatile as they are. People want nothing to do with someone who thinks differently than they do, and that doesn't exactly lead to tolerance, love, or kindness and you kind of need all three to compromise. >>

 

Thanks. This definitely changed my plans. 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

5 minutes ago, bleeder said:

If she can't handle your friends that you hang out with, and if you have conflicting ideologies, then I would talk to her about it, and if she persists, the best thing to do would be to break it off.

I once had to break up with a girl cause she was homophobic and "didn't agree with my lifestyle" as though I could change who I am. 

Sorry, bleeder, but little wilson is right on this one. I say this as someone who used to be very much like the girl Assassin in Burgundy described. 

You're newer to this site, so you haven't had the dubious pleasure of following the Twimom and Twidad Saga in real time, so I don't know how much you know, but suffice it to say that they are very prejudiced people. They believe that homosexuality is a choice (and a sinful one at that), that the earth was created in six literal days and that anyone who says otherwise is a heretic destined for hell, and other things that I won't go into here because summing up all of their twisted theology and dogma would take more words than I care to spend on them.

Because I was raised by these people, I was raised with these beliefs. I wasn't taught that I could believe whatever I wanted; I was taught that if I disagreed with my parents, I was a heretic. One of my sharpest memories was made when I was eleven, and I brought up evolution to my mom. She gave me a few pat answers, and when I challenged them (I don't remember how; I think it was something simple like "but how do you know for sure?") her eyes grew sad, and she said "That's heresy, but I still love you." 

It would be years before I questioned her beliefs again. 

For years I took all of my parents' beliefs as truth. Homosexuality is a sin? Absolutely. Argue it with anyone who says otherwise, because if you don't, you are denying God by your silence. Argue creationism, and ignore anything vaguely reminiscent of evolution, because any teaching that isn't a literal six-day creation story is heresy. But more than that, I was taught that I could essentially do no wrong when it came to arguing my beliefs. If I changed someone's mind, then they were receptive to what God had to say through me. If I made them angry, then it was because they had "hardened their hearts" toward God, not because of anything I had to say or how I said it. When people were disgusted with what I had to say, I believed it was because I was truly doing the right thing. 

So what broke me out of that? The answer is simple: Kindness. 

It started on this site, in one of the Question threads. The topic of evolution came up, and I stated my beliefs in creationism. These people were my friends, and things had been extremely civil, so I was as non-confrontational as I could possibly be. I expected hate, but I received civility. It was the first creation-evolution debate I'd seen that hadn't ended in virtual bloodshed. 

And it got me thinking. How did I know creationism was true? Kobold believed that God used evolution to create the universe, and he was the most Christlike person I'd met. Voidus believed the universe evolved independent of a deity, and he was kinder and more accepting of me than my own parents. Kaymyth showed me more forgiveness and protectiveness than anyone I'd met in my parents' denomination. Every single one of those people held a belief system that my parents would call heretical. Every single one of those people should have, by my parents' dogma, hated me simply for my beliefs, and yet they took me in and sheltered me from parents I had thought were my closest allies. 

And you know what happened to all of those poisonous beliefs that I had clung to so bitterly? 

I left them behind. 

This would not have happened without the kindness I was shown. If Kobold and Voidus and Kaymyth had coldly rejected me, if they had laughed at my beliefs and pushed me aside, I would still believe that evolution was heresy and homosexuality was a choice. I'd still be in denial about my own orientation. I'd be unable to enjoy Welcome to Night Vale for its pro-LGBT themes. I'd be trapped in stasis, so to speak, and I wouldn't be a pleasant person. 

Rejection might shield you from beliefs you find unsavory, but it won't change the people who hold them. And the people who hold those beliefs are not your enemy. Those poisonous ideas are your enemy—not only because they pose a threat to you, but because they are killing the people who hold them from the inside out. 

[marsoupial they/them]

12 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Sorry, bleeder, but little wilson is right on this one. I say this as someone who used to be very much like the girl Assassin in Burgundy described. 

...

Rejection might shield you from beliefs you find unsavory, but it won't change the people who hold them. And the people who hold those beliefs are not your enemy. Those poisonous ideas are your enemy—not only because they pose a threat to you, but because they are killing the people who hold them from the inside out. 

I had no idea of that. I'm... confused. That story made me sad, because you were in such a bad place for such a long time... but happy, because you had people to tell you how they believed, and you were kind enough to extend the favor to me. Thank you, Twi. Thank you sincerely.

Edited September 22, 2016 by bleeder

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

3 minutes ago, bleeder said:

I had no idea of that. I'm... confused. That story made me sad, because you were in such a bad place for such a long time... but happy, because you had people to tell you how they believed, and you were kind enough to extend the favor to me. Thank you, Twi. Thank you sincerely.

My point was, cutting someone off for holding a belief you find repugnant will probably do more harm than good. She might think, "Oh, this person I respect doesn't want to associate with me because of my beliefs, so maybe there's something wrong with my beliefs;" but it's far more likely that she'll go home and tell her parents, and her parents will pat her on the shoulder and say something rude about "those people." (On the other hand, if she goes home and says "Mom, Dad, I'm beginning to think that maybe homosexuality isn't morally wrong," there's going to be a long "discussion," and she's going to get her chull handed to her.) And all of the intolerance she has is going to be reinforced. The way to drive out intolerance is not by being intolerant toward intolerance. It's by proving intolerance wrong. 

[marsoupial they/them]

58 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

My point was, cutting someone off for holding a belief you find repugnant will probably do more harm than good. She might think, "Oh, this person I respect doesn't want to associate with me because of my beliefs, so maybe there's something wrong with my beliefs;" but it's far more likely that she'll go home and tell her parents, and her parents will pat her on the shoulder and say something rude about "those people." (On the other hand, if she goes home and says "Mom, Dad, I'm beginning to think that maybe homosexuality isn't morally wrong," there's going to be a long "discussion," and she's going to get her chull handed to her.) And all of the intolerance she has is going to be reinforced. The way to drive out intolerance is not by being intolerant toward intolerance. It's by proving intolerance wrong. 

I'm not sure how to appropriately respond in a way that will not seem dismissive, or rude, or cold, so... you are correct, and I will take your advice to heart (and I mean that genuinely). Thanks, Twi.  

[Arraenae]

@TwiLyghtSansSparkles, @little wilson, well said. We need more people like you two.

[Kaymyth she/her]

Heh.  I think "heretical" is a bit mild for what Twi's parents would call my belief system. 

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

@TwiLyghtSansSparkles, you are a beautiful example of the miracles that occur in this world. I admire you as a person, and an example of the good that can be accomplished in this world.

@little wilson, you are an example of impressive wisdom. I thank, and respect, you for sharing said wisdom. 

I wish I had discovered this site, and you guys, earlier in my life. You've helped me and so many others in more ways than I can verbally express. Thank you.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

11 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

Heh.  I think "heretical" is a bit mild for what Twi's parents would call my belief system. 

It is.  

[marsoupial they/them]

3 minutes ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

@TwiLyghtSansSparkles, you are a beautiful example of the miracles that occur in this world. I admire you as a person, and an example of the good that can be accomplished in this world.

@little wilson, you are an example of impressive wisdom. I thank, and respect, you for sharing said wisdom. 

I wish I had discovered this site, and you guys, earlier in my life. You've helped me and so many others in more ways than I can verbally express. Thank you.

Trust me: it only gets better. These people will invade your life and  your heart like you couldn't imagine. I was a different person when I joined the Shard, and I am a different person than who I was 2 hours ago thanks to the Shard. Thanks to these people, these internet strangers, your life will be changed for the better, and for good.

 

And, @Kaymyth, me too. Me too.

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

I have no doubts nor feelings of disbelief towards the absolute validity of your statement.

Thank you, by the way, bleeder. You've helped me avoid some of the mistakes that people have made with you. I don't think I've accidentally ( or purposefully for that matter) insulted someone based on their sexuality or religion since I heard you guys complain about the injustices done to you. Thank you so much for that.

Edited September 22, 2016 by ShadowLord_Lith

[Kaymyth she/her]

For the record, there are threads about both religion and gender identity/gender roles kicking around the General board.  There are enough newish folks kicking around that perhaps some of you haven't discovered them yet.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I feel I should offer a counterpoint: I abandoned many toxic beliefs in large part because they were ridiculed. This should not distract from Twi's point, I merely note that no method of illuminating the dark minds of our time is universal, though there are some common characteristics. The paramount characteristic: a willingness to share ideas and improve on them. Twi was open to sharing her ideas and allowing others to share theirs, as was I. I do not see Twimom doing the same, and any discussion with her or like individuals would be a tedious, irritating exercise in futility.

And that is where you need to evaluate your friend. It's not so much, "Does she have an open mind" but "Does she allow other viewpoints to exist around her?"

[marsoupial they/them]

41 minutes ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

I have no doubts nor feelings of disbelief towards the absolute validity of your statement.

Thank you, by the way, bleeder. You've helped me avoid some of the mistakes that people have made with you. I don't think I've accidentally ( or purposefully for that matter) insulted someone based on their sexuality or religion since I heard you guys complain about the injustices done to you. Thank you so much for that.

The Shard is a learning experience for everyone. *thumbs up* 

Edited September 22, 2016 by bleeder

[Orlion Blight he/him]

To give a more practical approach to relationships, my latest text to my girlfriend:

Spoiler

The cat whispers to me of a sunken city... Iä! Eä! The Goat with a Thousand Young! To bypass her is to prove myself worthy to sign my name in blood upon the pages of the Dark Man's Book in the Courts of Chaos where demon sultans pipe away on eldritch instruments to keep the Blind Idiot God aslumbered...

 

[Oversleep]

2 hours ago, Kaymyth said:

Heh.  I think "heretical" is a bit mild for what Twi's parents would call my belief system. 

2 hours ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

It is.  

Right, isn't heresy going against the teachings? I mean, a Christian could call heretic a Christian who went against some dogma, but a person who follows another religion would be a dissenter, right?

Then pagan beliefs... I think Twiparents would choose the word "infidel" or "heathen".

(And now please tell me whether any of the words I used is offensive as dictionaries usually don't include that kind of information )

Offtopic: anytime I hear the word "infidel" I immediately start hearing this in my head:

Spoiler

Quote

" Curse him! Curse the Christian King and his army of infidels! They go against the will of God, and must be made to pay! Everywhere they ride, they leave only suffering in their wake. They say it is a crusade. A crusade for what? Ignorance? Violence? Madness? We must resist! We must fight them in any way we can! "

It's from Assassin's Creed (the first one). Those street preachers had too little variety of dialogue so I will continue to remember it for years.

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Oversleep