Kaymyth Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Is Miles Chaotic Good? Bleeder is completely impossible to place. Harmony is probably neutral, or Neutral Good. Miles was never Good. I think he started out Lawful Neutral, and whatever messed with his head flipped his alignment to Evil. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Miles was never Good. I think he started out Lawful Neutral, and whatever messed with his head flipped his alignment to Evil. But he is fighting a corrupt government, he obviously believes he is doing the right thing, more or less, even if he is breaking the law doing it. I really love how second era books have flipped the conflict of The Final Empire... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'd be neutral neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seonid Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm lawful good. Probably not very far across the line from neutral good, but definitely lawful. And Miles was never good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistrunner Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Just rewatched Return of the King! A few thoughts: • Sam is amazing and does not get nearly as much credit as he deserves • Eowyn is basically the definition of Strong Female Character (badly characterized YA novel authors, take note) • That soundtrack (including Edge of Night) • The bromances are strong with these ones That is all. Please continue to your regularly scheduled programming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 But he is fighting a corrupt government, he obviously believes he is doing the right thing, more or less, even if he is breaking the law doing it. I really love how second era books have flipped the conflict of The Final Empire... True, but he also has no qualms about taking the lives of innocents who get caught in the crossfire. He willingly participated in the kidnapping if a number of young women, and even back in his lawkeeper days was willing to go to lengths that Wayne found despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seonid Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) From the d20 SRD, which is the online free version of D&D 3.5: "Good characters and creatures protect innocent life. Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit. "Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others. "Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master. People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships. Being good or evil can be a conscious choice. For most people, though, being good or evil is an attitude that one recognizes but does not choose. Being neutral on the good-evil axis usually represents a lack of commitment one way or the other, but for some it represents a positive commitment to a balanced view. While acknowledging that good and evil are objective states, not just opinions, these folk maintain that a balance between the two is the proper place for people, or at least for them. Animals and other creatures incapable of moral action are neutral rather than good or evil. Even deadly vipers and tigers that eat people are neutral because they lack the capacity for morally right or wrong behavior." Edited December 30, 2015 by Seonid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I am now lawful good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Bard Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I'd probably go with Chaotic Good, leaning towards the corner in the direction of True Neutral. Just rewatched Return of the King!A few thoughts:• Sam is amazing and does not get nearly as much credit as he deserves• Eowyn is basically the definition of Strong Female Character (badly characterized YA novel authors, take note)• That soundtrack (including Edge of Night)• The bromances are strong with these onesThat is all. Please continue to your regularly scheduled programming. And I still haven't seen the extended edition. Why is it so hard to get??? Edited December 30, 2015 by The Young Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 And I still haven't seen the extended edition. Why is it so hard to get??? Because you have to BELIEVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Just rewatched Return of the King! A few thoughts: • Sam is amazing and does not get nearly as much credit as he deserves • Eowyn is basically the definition of Strong Female Character (badly characterized YA novel authors, take note) • That soundtrack (including Edge of Night) • The bromances are strong with these ones That is all. Please continue to your regularly scheduled programming. A few more things:•You need to watch the Two Towers, it has Gollum's Song during the credits. That song is so creepy cool. •Writing Excuses always says that Sam is most people's favorite character, because he is an Everyman character. What does it say about me when I go, "Gollum? Are you forgetting him? Best one!" •Tom Bombadil. How dare you, movies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) The Hide button isn't working, so ignore this accidental double post! Edited December 30, 2015 by The Honor Spren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'd probably go with Chaotic Good, leaning towards the corner in the direction of True Neutral. And I still haven't seen the extended edition. Why is it so hard to get??? [Whisper]Torrents...[/whisper] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestrel Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 When you're walking down the hotel barefoot with pjs and wet hair because you've lost control of your life and you see your band director. All the dignity I have left is gone. Also there is no water. Does Cali even have water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Anamaximder Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Aha! New thread. Which means a new joke!!! The Teacher says to the class: Who ever stands up is stupid *Nobody stands up* Teacher: I said who ever stands up is STUPID! *Little Johnny stands up* Teacher: Johnny, do you really think that you are stupid? Little Johnny: No Mrs, I just thought that maybe you are lonely being the only one standing. Edit: 1000 REP!! Edited December 30, 2015 by Venture Mistborn 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Straff and Zane would both be chaotic evil. Vasher would be chaotic good. I think I'd be chaotic good. Straff seems neutral evil for me. Perhaps lawful, since he seems to care as much for the continued power of his House as for himself.Vasher is lawful neutral with strong good leaning, not good and certainly not chaotic. If he was good, he'd think twice before assuming everybody killed by the nightblood method either had it coming or just not thinking about them, especially if he could prevent the war bloodlessy by revealing himself like he did in the end. Certainly not evil, but not qualifying as good in my opinion because of his disregard for how many lifes he takes when he has other choices. He is lawful because he estabilished the local government by making himself into a god and wants to mantain it at high costs. I think I'd be neutral good with lawful inclinations, if we have to follow this simplistic system. Edited December 30, 2015 by DreamEternal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Straff seems neutral evil for me. Perhaps lawful, since he seems to care as much for the continued power of his House as for himself. Vasher is lawful neutral, not good and certainly not chaotic. If he was good, he'd think twice before assuming everybody killed by the nightblood method either had it coming or just not thinking about them, especially if he could prevent the war bloodlessy by revealing himself like he did in the end. Certainly not evil, but not qualifying as good in my opinion because of his disregard for how many lifes he takes when he has other choices. He is lawful because he estabilished the local government by making himself into a god and wants to mantain it. I think I'd be neutral good with lawful inclinations, if we have to follow this simplistic system. Yes, but Straff cut loose the second the Final Empire fell and he was free to do as he pleased. This seems evidence that he was chaotic evil all along, held back by only societal convention. Vasher does what he does for what he seems to see as the ultimate good, disregarding society and other man-made rules. I can see the grounds for classification as chaotic neutral, but I think his motives make it more sensible to class him as chaotic good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Vasher does what he does for what he seems to see as the ultimate good, disregarding society and other man-made rules. I can see the grounds for classification as chaotic neutral, but I think his motives make it more sensible to class him as chaotic good.The problem is not whatever he sees his goals as good or not, but that he does not care much for how much destruction he may cause to accomplish them, and takes the more destructive of two paths because the better one is less confortable to him, even if it is proved in the end he would be willing to do it if it was the only choice.A good person is willing to question their morality and would rather take a less confortable choice than take lifes. Vasher rarely does the first when it comes to killing and did the opposite of the second. As for chaotic vs. lawful, is a king who creates up a great, ordered nation and risks himself to mantain it, but also makes himself above his own laws chaotic or lawful? Edited December 30, 2015 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 As for chaotic vs. lawful, is a king who creates up a great, ordered nation and risks himself to mantain it, but also makes himself above his own laws chaotic or lawful? Spoilered just in case. Chaotic. Very much chaotic. For comparison's sake, look at Elend, a lawful good King. He set up his government in a way he thought would be fair to everyone, and when those laws were used against him, he didn't make himself above them. He followed his own laws, even when it meant abdicating to an evil man. That is lawful. Now look at Straff. He followed the Lord Ruler's laws and regulations, but only because there was a bigger fish in the pond. Once the Lord Ruler was out of the picture, Straff set out to make himself King. The only reason he bothered making a deal with Penrod was that it was more prudent to take the city through legal means than to sacrifice the lives of his men in battle. As for the way he treated his mistresses, his motto seemed to be "I'll take what you have, but if you take what I have, I'll cry foul." That is the essence of chaotic: not just rigging the game, but picking and choosing which rules to follow while demanding everyone else follow them to the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Spoilered just in case. Chaotic. Very much chaotic. For comparison's sake, look at Elend, a lawful good King. He set up his government in a way he thought would be fair to everyone, and when those laws were used against him, he didn't make himself above them. He followed his own laws, even when it meant abdicating to an evil man. That is lawful. Now look at Straff. He followed the Lord Ruler's laws and regulations, but only because there was a bigger fish in the pond. Once the Lord Ruler was out of the picture, Straff set out to make himself King. The only reason he bothered making a deal with Penrod was that it was more prudent to take the city through legal means than to sacrifice the lives of his men in battle. As for the way he treated his mistresses, his motto seemed to be "I'll take what you have, but if you take what I have, I'll cry foul." That is the essence of chaotic: not just rigging the game, but picking and choosing which rules to follow while demanding everyone else follow them to the letter. That seems the essence of non-lawful evil, not chaotic. A non-evil chaotic fellow would probably be more about not accepting to have rules they don't need forced upon them and not forcing others to followrules they don't need. EDIT: althought I've never liked D&D alignements, due to my strange personal views of morality that allow for the existence of a non-subjective good while decrying the idea of "evil" as an illusion. And don't get me started with the law and chaos axis, since my visions of these concepts are ver far away from D&D, and I don't see these concepts as a dichotomy. Edited December 30, 2015 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I talk I had with my brother today: "Hey Jared, what do you think your boggart would be? "I'm actually not sure. I don't have a lot of deep intrinsic fears it could take the image of. Maybe something related to taxidermy, or else a deeper and more abstract fear like--" "Downvotes." "What?" "Your boggart would be a downvote." "A downvote." "A giant walking and talking downvote laughing at you." "Dear Almighty. That's horrifying." "See? That would totally be your boggart." 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 That seems the essence of non-lawful evil, not chaotic. A non-evil chaotic fellow would probably be more about not accepting to have rules they don't need forced upon them and not forcing others to follow rules they don't need. Then what is he? Neutral evil does what it wants and doesn't care if others follow the rules, which doesn't fit Straff; lawful evil doesn't fit him either; and your opposed to calling him chaotic, so what is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Then what is he? Neutral evil does what it wants and doesn't care if others follow the rules, which doesn't fit Straff; lawful evil doesn't fit him either; and your opposed to calling him chaotic, so what is he?I do not oppose calling Straff chaotic, although I'd rather call him neutral evil in the sense he just picks what benefits him the most at the moment.And you just turned the discussion away from Vasher. Edited December 30, 2015 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 *Throws red arrows at Kobold* I'd call Straff Lawful Evil, he is a nobelman, not some brute, he plays the rules in his own favor, but he still cares about rules. If he was Chaotic he wouldnt have cared about the siege, he would just have marched into Luthadel and won with his superior army. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I do not oppose calling Straff chaotic, although I'd rather call him neutral evil in the sense he just picks what benefits him the most at the moment. And you just turned the discussion away from Vasher. I'm going to bow out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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