QF 72 Aftermath: A new order

[CadCom he/him]

The Rebels had shown remarkable coordination across several underground groups. Something never before seen in all of Scadrial. Under the leadership of Kelsier, one little band of skaa was able to make remarkable change in Luthadel. They crippled a ministry that hadn't fallen in over 1000 years. 

 -----

QF 72 is over. The Rebels have won, because they have killed a member of the ministry.

Vote Count
The Unknown Order (4): Drake, Cofeecat, Kasimir, Aeoryi
Aeternum (1): Aeternum
Stick (1): RoyalBeeMage, Stick

Player list and winning status 

@The Unknown Order - Leader of the Ministry. Lost

@Aeternum - Kelsier, Oracle, Lover. Won

@LightRinger - Matchmaker, Ministry Worker. Lost

@Coffeecat - Hemalurgic Troublemaker. Won

@RoyalBeeMage - Ministry Seeker, Lover. Lost

@Kasimir - Lerasium Spiked, Spiked, Spiked. Won

@Stick. - Oracle, Kelsier. Lost

@Aeoryi - Hazekiller. Won

@DrakeMarshall - Spiked, Spiked. Won

If you want to find out how you got to where you are, please view the master doc

Links to relevant Docs:

Master spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cxCsNoT8WDFOMiR_bAnpYVh8p8r6ioNO7l6p7Ediacs/edit?usp=drivesdk

Elim doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HUvk4oFBQrq37Rtg17XRfbA4e11NLwSMKR5elkxloy0/edit?usp=drivesdk

I'll try to give initial thoughts later today, as I do have some thoughts about role mechanics and doc access I'd like to add. Then I'll be Out of coverage for a week, so additional thoughts will be later. 

Thank you all for joining me in is SE experiment of ONUW games!
 

Edited July 7, 2024 by CadCom

[Aeternum]

Wow Stick, smh. Sad I missed EoD (I slept through it, whoops)

Thanks for running the game CadCom! Thanks for IMing, Araris!

[Stick. she/her]

Since I was an oracle n0 I was told that I’d been changed to Kelsier at start of day lol

 

so I tried my hardest to look like an elim all day 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

Just now, Stick. said:

Since I was an oracle n0 I was told that I’d been changed to Kelsier at start of day lol

 

so I tried my hardest to look like an elim all day 

Should have cced someone else, works like a charm.

Thank you @CadCom and @Araris Valerian for this game, it was fun!

I was going to do one final self vote to try to scare everyone off, but I passed out without remembering. /shrug, probably wouldn't have worked anyways.

[Stick. she/her]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

Should have cced someone else, works like a charm.

I couldn’t have done that cuz coffee and aet both had information that, when combined, would out me as Kelsier so my only real option was to claim the Kelsier rand before aeternum could 

[Kasimir he/him]

Thanks for running ONW CadCom! And for IMing, Araris!

I find the most loltastic part of this game probably just Aet chilling under the assumption he's screwed and then et voila he wins just by doing nothing

Reiterating this is why you trust the murderpuppy on Lily reads

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

2 hours ago, Aeternum said:

Sad I missed EoD (I slept through it, whoops)

same hat I was gonna at least answer Kas' question but then I went to sleep

anyways glad it worked out

[LightRinger he/him]

Wow. I got switched pretty hard. Dang

[Coffeecat she/her]

Woaaa, interesting. You never know in ONUW

[CadCom he/him]

Alright, a few thoughts. 

I'm trying to decide if I liked not having the elims share their targets, and close the doc at the end of the night cycle. I think in future iterations I would either allow actions to be shared or the doc to stay open throughout the day. 

Edit: I accidentally hit submit: continuing

@LightRinger, I think this was your first game, hope it wasn't too crazy. I don't think I've ever seen a game with 12 pages in just 48 hours, so I think you can usually expect less craziness. If you've ever played Mafia at a party (or murder in the dark or one of many other names for it) I recommend trying out a future game. Normal Sanderson Elimination games are generally less claim crazy, but the intention of this game is to be a bit more crazy.

Also, I always struggle to keep up on abbreviations too, so I get that. 

Regarding role distribution, I did just do one RNG, and I was overall happy that I had 2 of the 3 elim wincon roles, so I went with it. I think I was generally happy with it but could have been fun to see a different distribution. 

One benefit of ONUW tabletop, is that a game takes like 10 minutes, so you can mix up roles several times and play around in it and learn strategies. In a forum setting, you only have one shot at it for the next 3-4 days. 

Regarding Lerasium spiked, I though about having a scan of that role come up as Lerasium spiked, but the person who had the role would still be able to complete the New action. (Basically make it as if it were a real card in front of you, as that's the tabletop mechanic)

Overall I was happy to see the discussion switching a bit from several players at different times. Don't know if the village just got lucky or if it was stacked in their favor. Would love to hear thoughts. 

Thanks again for playing. 

See you in a week. 

(PS.  My neighbors said they lovedtheir adventure hunt race I had built for them, but I thought I bombed it)

Edited July 7, 2024 by CadCom
Oops

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

7 hours ago, Stick. said:

Since I was an oracle n0 I was told that I’d been changed to Kelsier at start of day lol

 

so I tried my hardest to look like an elim all day 

I stand by not wanting to touch Stick/Aeternum, but I should've thought of the Oracle angle

Pretending like you randed Kelsier is probably the best thing you could've done in that situation yeah

---

re: game thoughts

I think this game worked decently well overall, I mean ONUW is a formula that works

If there's one bone I'd pick it's that, is conversion actually a good thing for the elims in this setup?

because the convert usually doesn't know they're a convert, and therefore usually doesn't know to try to help team evil

from the elims perspective, all it does is adds an extra player who makes them lose if they die, which is bad for them, no?

honestly, I think it's not a problem if the roles are generally more helpful to the village, because they need to be helpful to the village in order to give the village a legitimate shot at guessing right in a single day (D1 votes in ordinary games don't enjoy a very high hit rate)

but I dunno if there's one thing I'd change it's that maybe I'd make the Ministry Leader's ability inform the Ministry Worker that they're an elim now

but generally good game good setup

[Kasimir he/him]

4 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

same hat I was gonna at least answer Kas' question but then I went to sleep

yes but as long as I know you're Village and i certainly did here, I trust u on Lily and mindgames reads

i just had to lodge a protest first

i'd still have voted with u which is why u could just sleep without gaf anyway lesbe real

32 minutes ago, CadCom said:

Regarding Lerasium spiked, I though about having a scan of that role come up as Lerasium spiked, but the person who had the role would still be able to complete the New action. (Basically make it as if it were a real card in front of you, as that's the tabletop mechanic)

I think it'd add a bit more bluff territory or uncertainty there from a Village Seeker because there's then no telling what role I really copied. Barring the ersatz reality where Drake and I just happily Spiked each other, it'd be something with a lot less corroboration, which introduces gaps for Elims to exploit.

37 minutes ago, CadCom said:

Overall I was happy to see the discussion switching a bit from several players at different times. Don't know if the village just got lucky or if it was stacked in their favor. Would love to hear thoughts. 

I feel like some of this is down to the fact that massclaiming just is the best strat forward for the Village, and with Elim roles being unique, this starts them off in a position of pressure. MinSeeker has a better-minted fake excuse, as scanning an NPC role gives them a claim that's unchallenged unless the Village Seeker scans that same role. MinLeader feels like the ongoing problem here, but not in a bad way - no easy bluff, and if they convert someone easily misexed, they're in trouble. I did have the thought at the back of my head that if TUA used the conversion, it was likely to hit LightRinger, since LR has new player protection, but it didn't feel like that sort of shot in the dark was worth it when we had a lead.

(I'll note in BotC, there's a similar issue and the Demon is often told two of the roles not in the game - NPC roles here - in order to be able to bluff, but they still have to fake results. I don't know if that helps a little here if you feel there's too much Elim pressure due to this being more long-form than a 10 minute RL game.)

I think Kelsier and Kandra Spy existing do create pressure valves for the Elims to exploit, and would almost argue they're roles essential to giving the Elims space to maneuver, since the Village has to hesitate on wanting to push obviously sus people due to secondguessing. The main issue with them is (I think?) which maybe is why you asked about stacking - they create threats that mostly leave the ball in the Village court. They let Elims FUD hard but ultimately the Village has to just make the call, which means that there's a limit to the amount of control the Elims get here. I do think good FUDing is never something to underlook, but that's also a playniche demand for an Elim.

tldr; I don't think it was really stacked but I do think the main Elim tools here can be a tad reactive.

[RoyalBeeMage he/him]

thank you for running such an intresting game. 

[CadCom he/him]

4 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

If there's one bone I'd pick it's that, is conversion actually a good thing for the elims in this setup?

because the convert usually doesn't know they're a convert, and therefore usually doesn't know to try to help team evil

from the elims perspective, all it does is adds an extra player who makes them lose if they die, which is bad for them, no?

I also had this thought mid game. 

Regardless, I think it's a good base to build off of if anyone else wants to run a future ONUW game here, with their own flavor, which I would happily join as a player, even if I'm busy (as long as I'm told about it) 

[Stick. she/her]

Thanks for running this and introducing me to ONW @CadCom!!