QF 72: The Rebellion - Now or Never

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

Just now, Aeternum said:

Well then why did you use your role smh.

Because that'd be boring

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Aeternum said:

(I recently got townread for softing a PR because, and I quote, "makes awful mech posts (like about their own role) as town in every game they’ve had a pr") so me claiming Kelsier here should be like very Non gambit-y Very truthful-y LOL. Thanks for reading my self-meta paragraph. MOVING ON

ngl it would be really funny if Coffee were fakeclaiming and got the real Kelsier to claim and gaslit him into thinking he is no longer Kelsier

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

From your POV, since Aet and Stick were not swapped, what are you theorising?

Aet is claiming to have started as Kel, but I'm considering a Coffee/Aet e/e world.

I feel his actions don't line up with v! Or n!Aet

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

8 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

My role is profoundly useless for everything except causing chaos.

Useful rules note #4 - From the phrasing, it kinda looks like the Hemalurgic Troublemaker is allowed to choose not to do anything, if they think that's the best thing to do. Unless our illustrious GM has clarified elsewise?

I'm not going to call this indicative for the moment, but it does seem like an interesting topic of conversation.

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

I feel his actions don't line up with v! Or n!Aet

10 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

I find it kind of odd how you're defending Coffee so strongly here, why would either a villager or the neutral you claim to be be so invested why someone else held back information a bit longer than necessary?

Why wouldn't he be invested though? It directly affects him because he's one of the people Coffee claimed to have swapped, so there's a personal interest angle. I'm not reading it as defending Coffee so much as trying to nail down his view on the switch because it affects how he wants to proceed this cycle.

Like if he thinks Coffee is lying, then he's committed to the view he wasn't swapped, in which case he should wholeheartedly continue with his OG wincon.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Useful rules note #4 - From the phrasing, it kinda looks like the Hemalurgic Troublemaker is allowed to choose not to do anything, if they think that's the best thing to do. Unless our illustrious GM has clarified elsewise?

Yeah, I didn't ask him if I could. Doesn't really feel in spirit of ONW to me.

Also, like I told Aet, that would have been boring.

[Aeternum]

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

ngl it would be really funny if Coffee were fakeclaiming and got the real Kelsier to claim and gaslit him into thinking he is no longer Kelsier

I was actually thinking that lol.

GOOD THING KELSIER DOESN'T CARE

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

Aet is claiming to have started as Kel, but I'm considering a Coffee/Aet e/e world.

I feel his actions don't line up with v! Or n!Aet

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I got news for you

Also fwiw voting in Stick/me is a bad idea. Kelsier lives for the Rebels and not the Ministry!

1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Useful rules note #4 - From the phrasing, it kinda looks like the Hemalurgic Troublemaker is allowed to choose not to do anything, if they think that's the best thing to do. Unless our illustrious GM has clarified elsewise?

I'm not going to call this indicative for the moment, but it does seem like an interesting topic of conversation.

I assumed everyone with an opportunity to do something could also choose to just not do anything, but I wouldn't know.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

10 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

@DrakeMarshall:

This was the moment that tonally reminded me of Coffee fakeclaiming against me.

honestly I kinda saw that too

that's part of why I'm not sure

[Coffeecat she/her]

9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

This was the moment that tonally reminded me of Coffee fakeclaiming against me. 

This is me making fun of stick saying that there is no way anyone would believe Aet, or the other way around I forgot. 

 

As for that other game, it was mostly me in a losing position, I had no way to get out of you being the real Brandon. There was not much I could do but push the claim for funsies, which didn't turn out well.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

I'm not reading it as defending Coffee so much as trying to nail down his view on the switch because it affects how he wants to proceed this cycle.

Except it's kinda not either? Like, he's trying to explain why Coffee would hold back info and how that's not antivillage. 

[Aeternum]

1 minute ago, Coffeecat said:

This is me making fun of stick saying that there is no way anyone would believe Aet, or the other way around I forgot.

Yeah you made fun of me 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

2 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I got news for you

Please don't say this whole claim was reaction test. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

4 minutes ago, Coffeecat said:

This is me making fun of stick saying that there is no way anyone would believe Aet, or the other way around I forgot. 

 

As for that other game, it was mostly me in a losing position, I had no way to get out of you being the real Brandon. There was not much I could do but push the claim for funsies, which didn't turn out well.

well, if you're evil, then you're kind of in a similar situation where you need to pick a claim and push it if you're going to win, most likely

Edited July 6, 2024 by DrakeMarshall

[Aeternum]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

Please don't say this whole claim was reaction test. 

"[Aet] is insanely bad with roles I don’t think they could gambit if they tried (sorry)"

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

guys, disregard the fact that Kas confirmed my role already, I'm actually the Hemalurgic Troublemaker and I swapped TUO and Coffeecat

[Aeternum]

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

guys, disregard the fact that Kas confirmed my role already, I'm actually the Hemalurgic Troublemaker and I swapped TUO and Coffeecat

Kas/Drake e/e right here 

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

Except it's kinda not either? Like, he's trying to explain why Coffee would hold back info and how that's not antivillage. 

Yes, but that has implications for Coffee's alignment and his view of Coffee's alignment?

9 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Useful rules note #4 - From the phrasing, it kinda looks like the Hemalurgic Troublemaker is allowed to choose not to do anything, if they think that's the best thing to do. Unless our illustrious GM has clarified elsewise?

In ONW they're allowed not to do it AFAIK. I feel the smart move for HT here is actually to lie about who they switched (and sometimes not switch at all.) But at the same time, in the wise words of Pokemon:

Spoiler

 

[Aeternum]

Ignore me spinning around in circles in the corner while everyone discusses who to kill

[Aeoryi she/her]

tryharding phase tomorrow at 6 PM EDT don't miss it guys

[Aeternum]

2 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

tryharding phase tomorrow at 6 PM EDT don't miss it guys

Can't wait!

[Kasimir he/him]

Thinking aloud:

In terms of reaction tests, it makes more sense to claim/lie about who you switched in the hopes it forces the players to out themselves. Coffee suggesting she wanted to wait for them to out themselves seems to indicate she's not aware they're not told about the swap. I'd expect CadCom to have mentioned that to her though?

I'd normally consider role unfamiliarity a mark against the player's claim veracity, but also, TJ's damn QF >>

20 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

honestly I kinda saw that too

that's part of why I'm not sure

There's one other point that was giving me pause and that was wrt to Coffee claiming early for time reasons.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

There's one other point that was giving me pause and that was wrt to Coffee claiming early for time reasons.

could you spell that one out a bit more?

I actually kinda think wanting the people to commit to a claim before you reveal you swapped them is just sensible, and I sorta see a progression wrt the claiming from here to here (note that those posts are only like, 10 minutes apart though lol)

[LightRinger he/him]

20 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

Ignore me spinning around in circles in the corner while everyone discusses who to kill

Fr. I’m just like “so… at least people have backed me up”

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

could you spell that one out a bit more?

Well, two points I guess:

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

I actually kinda think wanting the people to commit to a claim before you reveal you swapped them is just sensible

First, I don't disagree but:

8 hours ago, Coffeecat said:

None of them sound very villagery right now, so I wanted to see what they would claim and possibly catch them in a lie.

If they aren't told about the swap and you aren't told about their role, what sort of lie could you possibly catch them in apart from if they claimed HT? The fact the HT doesn't know the roles switched and players don't know they were switched means that the main value of HT is forcing players to react to the prospect of a switch, no? Otherwise you just don't value-add to the claim situation. The other half of it is that claiming has one point of value, even before committing to a claim, potentially, that you don't get in a regular SE game, which is that if you made a V/E switch, the former E has more incentive to out themselves, and they wouldn't do that without knowing they got switched.

It does open a can of wyrms wrt Troublemaker lying but SE is new enough to ONW minus Coffee and Araris (IMing) that I don't feel higher level HT meta is an issue here?

3 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I sorta see a progression wrt the claiming from here to here (note that those posts are only like, 10 minutes apart though lol)

Wasn't thinking of that but this:

7 hours ago, Coffeecat said:

Well whatever, I will say I chose stick And Aet. 

I'm claiming now because I might not be able to claim later, and because last night before I went to sleep there was nowhere near enough activity 

Not wrong on the activity front, but the 'not be able to claim later' makes me raise my eyebrows a bit in terms of Coffee's current thread presence.

But also, yeah, @Coffeecat, apologies if you already answered this and I missed it but you implied you found neither Stick nor Aet Villagery, which is what prompted your claiming:

8 hours ago, Coffeecat said:

Actually I would like some more input, it's been a while since I played ONW. I am the hemalurgic troublemaker and my action was successful last night so two people are swapped. None of them sound very villagery right now, so I wanted to see what they would claim and possibly catch them in a lie.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more?

[Aeternum]

11 minutes ago, LightRinger said:

Fr. I’m just like “so… at least people have backed me up”

Come sit in the corner with me, I'll buy pizza or whatever the equivalent is in Mistborn