Stormlight 5 interlude reading (cosmere spoilers)

[ArchangelCaesar]

On 11/25/2023 at 1:23 PM, Oltux72 said:

And a few questions:

1. Why does an Iriali teenager know what the Cosmere is?
2. Her mother has a Blade. What oath is she on?
3. How does the exodus practically work? What about bed-ridden nonagenerians?
4. What happens to mixed people? Rira?

1. I heard it as lowercase 'c' cosmere, which has been used before as the in-world substitute for "universe"
2. No answer yet. I'm waiting on the Stormlight RPG to come out. that's when we'll get all the answers, I think 
3. Lots of walking through portals and then the cognitive realm, although it'd be thematically appropriate for it to be a next level portal that throws them straight through the Spiritual Realm and on to Land 5. Bed ridden: Magical wheelchairs will appear is my joke of a theory
4. We know that the golden Iriali hair breeds true, so I think that mixed race people who identify as Iriali will likely be allowed to come. Identity is likely important here. 

[+robardin]

Given the timing of other published Cosmere works, I would imagine the Fifth Land they are departing for is Scadrial, because in The Lost Metal,

 

we see Wayne having discovered chouta in Bilming, where there are newly arrived “golden-haired fairy creatures living on the east side of Bilming” that surely are Iriali. and the Wax and Wayne stories take place between Stormlight 5 and 6.

It’s just too bad the interlude shows Ym’s family using his former shop to sell tea. It’d have been a lot funnier if they sold chouta. Well maybe they do, to go with the tea? LOL.

Edited November 28, 2023 by robardin

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

Given the timing of other published Cosmere works, I would imagine the Fifth Land they are departing for is Scadrial, because in The Lost Metal,

  Hide contents

we see Wayne having discovered chouta in Bilming, where there are newly arrived “golden-haired fairy creatures living on the east side of Bilming” that surely are Iriali. and the Wax and Wayne stories take place between Stormlight 5 and 6.

It’s just too bad the interlude shows Ym’s family using his former shop to sell tea. It’d have been a lot funnier if they sold chouta. Well maybe they do, to go with the tea? LOL.

Great catch on the timing. I read Lost Metal and didn’t think about that connection. 
 

It’s still just a draft! He can change it to chouta during later revisions.

[Walter The Moral]

I have an important question! Dyel's mother is a radiant, and therefore can't leave Roshar because of her Connection to it. What did those Iriali do? Did they break their oaths, or did they stay on Roshar?

[+robardin]

9 hours ago, Walter The Moral said:

I have an important question! Dyel's mother is a radiant, and therefore can't leave Roshar because of her Connection to it. What did those Iriali do? Did they break their oaths, or did they stay on Roshar?

We don’t know yet. We see her mother crying and whispering to her spren, “We will try… We will see, see how far you can go.” (That was not to her daughter!)

Indeed we shall see. My guess is that either she will have to release the bond (without killing her spren?) or stay behind on Roshar.

We know it can be done, somehow, based on WoBs and glimpses from later-in-time Cosmere works with either directly in view or mention of the possibility of “oathed Radiants” being outside the Rosharan system.

Of course, that could depend on Things That Happen In Stormlight 5 After The Duel of Champions.

[NH2316]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:00 AM, Storm-It said:

Any idea what the device is that the Galladon mentions being unpredictable? Is it used to look for Hoid? More likely investiture, right? That’s how Demoux knows that intelligent spren are near, perhaps?

 

 

On 11/22/2023 at 2:46 PM, alder24 said:

And HOW Baon knew this/something was coming? Fortune like Hoid is using?

Yes, I think something Fortune related, or at least adjacent.  Maybe a sort of "atium-fabrial" (though I doubt literally powered by atium, since its' rare).

My initial reaction, reading "Are you certain this is the right time?” followed by "Of course I’m not sure....The device is always unpredictable, don’t you know?”, was holy $%&# did Brandon just introduce time-travel and that's a time travel device and this is Demoux/Galladon/Baon coming to observe an event they know about in the past from sometime in the future???  It had a "When are we?" quality to it that triggered my spidey-sense for every fantasy/sci-fi story involving time travel and the multiverse.

....After settling down for a sec and thinking about the likelihood of Brandon introducing time-travel as a real thing that happens in the cosmere, for these 3 characters we already know and whom we have already seen on Roshar presumably traveling by normal means (perpendicularity), with no prior hints to suggest that time travel is a thing in this universe, and revealed in an interlude preview reading.....well, suffice it to say that reaction was silly.

 

That said, I think there may be something going on here about, if not traveling to/from the future, then predicting the future.  It could be that the device just pings in the presence abnormal/abnormally strong spren or other Invested phenomena and that's all it is....but personally it felt more to me like them showing up to that spot and that time had intention to it and the device was how they knew when and where to be  (i.e. it seemed like they were there to witness some specific event they expected/hoped to witness in the future).  Seeing/divining possible futures is a well-established in-canon thing, often at the Shard level, but also at the individual level under certain circumstances (Renarin, using atium, last words of dying Rosharans....etc.).  We also know that in general the number of futures you see by these means is semi-limited (hence "Of course I’m not sure....The device is always unpredictable, don’t you know?”) to a finite number of futures rather than true infinity (though for shards with strong future-divining skills maybe it gets close to "functional" infinity?).  Incidentally, there was a new WOB (#38 Nov. 21, 2023) discussing how much Brandon dislikes a truely infinite multiverse but is a bit more interested in a limited/finite approach to alternate futures/timelines......and all that seems to fit mechanistically here.  So, my theory is that the device is something that forecasts future events, but (because magic is more interesting when it has downsides/limits/costs) it will show you say 5-7 possible times of possible future events and you can't really know which is the "true" future.  Thus, the 17th shard crew is using it to predict within some margin of error where they should be to have a chance of observing possible, but not inevitable, events of Realmatic interest.

 

There's also got to be more limitations to it then that, namely I can't imagine its' an overt crystal ball that can predict any/all "interesting/important comere events" imaginable. Again, this would violate the general spirit of probability in this world where the number of alternate futures/events is potentially large but nevertheless finite....for instance when you burn atium, the possibilities you see notably do NOT ever include the person attacking you spontaneously turning into a potted plant or blue whale a la the Hitchhikers' Guide. Moreover, following the principle that doing anything impressive with an inanimate object usually takes a good amount of investiture at a high burn/decay rate (e.g. Fabrials, hemolurgic spikes, all the Breath-powered things, etc.) it would seem that you'd need a near-Shardic (i.e. actually infinite) amount of Investiture to power a device that could predict any possibility happening anywhere at any time. More likely, it's something that needs "tuned" to a specific target type of event you already suspect *could* happen (e.g. Iriali migrations, given that they've already done it 4 times before).  In that case, the device simply helps you to get a (still unpredictable) estimate of when the thing you *think* *might* happen could/might/will actually happen.  A need to target a specific type of event/future to be seen with the device would also kind of mirror how seeing the future for Shards is described, wherein they have to turn their attention (i.e. with Intent) to the parts of possible timelines they're interested in before they can see/learn those possibilities (even if they have exponentially more processing power than a mortal, the Shards clearly do not have "true" omniscience....though the ones better at telling futures seem to come close).  In that vein, a "future-fabrial" would certainly have to be even more targeted/limited than the way Shards see things, likely by several orders of magnitude.  Still, it's an interesting possible development.

 

....Or.... its' just a run of the mill Investiture-o-meter that dings when a lot of Investiture is about to be expended such as (but not exclusive to) a mass perpendicularity exodus, and the 17th shard crew's reason for knowing to be in that place and time had nothing to do with the device

 

...or its' a time machine....

 

....except no still definitely not a time machine.

[Ewery1]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:26 PM, Ookla the foolish said:

I’m wondering how whatever transported the Iriali had enough investiture to open so many perpendicularities. We are told its honor’s but we also know that there was one opened in every major Iriali city. That’s a lot of investiture to spontaneously appear.

Okay here’s a theory. You know how it used to cycle through people’s faces and looking at it made you feel tired? I think it could’ve been siphoning small bits of people’s spiritual aspect, perhaps it needed to recharge after the last jump. This may be the method by which they travel each time!

[MerlinArcane]

The question about the Irali is less ‘where is their next desitiantion’ and more ‘where is their FINAL destination?’ 
 

there is a theory I saw where the Irali are perhaps Splinters of Virtuosity, as they’re the yellow of the cyan and pink of printer colours found in Nightmare Painter. 

if they are in fact that, why are they constantly moving? Why are they leaving? Where are they going? What is their purpose?  I think the Irali mother in the interlude will provide useful information regarding Connection & Spren for the future as well 

[Ravenclawjedi42]

44 minutes ago, MerlinArcane said:

The question about the Irali is less ‘where is their next desitiantion’ and more ‘where is their FINAL destination?’ 
 

there is a theory I saw where the Irali are perhaps Splinters of Virtuosity, as they’re the yellow of the cyan and pink of printer colours found in Nightmare Painter. 

if they are in fact that, why are they constantly moving? Why are they leaving? Where are they going? What is their purpose?  I think the Irali mother in the interlude will provide useful information regarding Connection & Spren for the future as well 

I doubt the theory about the Iriali being splinters of Virtuosity, if only because the idea of the Iriali predates the idea for YatNP.

[MerlinArcane]

I am running off a WoB where a commenter notes that the yellow is missing. Brandon says, as far as I can recall, RAFO or that we’re thinking along the right lines. Either way, I think they’re important in some way

[Inevitability]

I think there’s two scenarios that are likely with Cusicesh. 
1) We know that Brandon likes parallels in the cosmere so these theories about Cusicesh taking a little bit of investiture from people is interesting in light of sunlit man. Nomad has the jump mechanic that is based on an amount of investiture he has. To me that feels like it is skewed towards fortune whereas this Iriali mechanic feels more identity based.

2) if Cusicesh is not a passive entity, then he is either an active protector against a big enough threat OR the scion/vassal of a larger active protector, ie shard. My theory along these lines is that it’s our unknown 16th shard that Brandon is keeping close to his chest. Furthermore I think that there is a magic system in the Iriali that we just haven’t seen yet because this shard is laying low and trying to survive until “their people” arrive in the final destination where they will power up Kung Fu Panda 3 style except with glowing golden hair instead of glowing golden palms, meaning that their “magic” is based on collective identity instead of individual (again it would parallel Threnodites in that manner)

 

 

[Isilel]

I managed to miss this new tidbit back in November, but it ist very intriguing. Also, I feel vindicated, since I foretold that the reason why Iri joined the other side was that their leaders had known that it was almost the time to leave anyway and saw no reason to fight Odium. It is a bit odd that they allegedly fought Rirans, but maybe that was the price for being left alone otherwise.

It also seems that a chunk of population ist going to be left behind, since everyone living out in the country appears to be out of luck, what with the gates only opening in the cities. This would explain why Iriali seem to have been cosmere spoiler:

Spoiler

much less numerous on Lumar.

 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

Also, I feel vindicated, since I foretold that the reason why Iri joined the other side was that their leaders had known that it was almost the time to leave anyway and saw no reason to fight Odium.

Did they? They saw this as an opportunity to conquer Rira and other nations around the Pure Lake - why would they do that if they knew it's time to leave? All of their conquests are useless anyway. It was Cusicesh who decided it's time to leave and nobody seemed to expect that at all.

2 hours ago, Isilel said:

It is a bit odd that they allegedly fought Rirans, but maybe that was the price for being left alone otherwise.

Iri claimed Rira is their vassal, while Rira didn't accept that. 

2 hours ago, Isilel said:

It is a bit odd that they allegedly fought Rirans, but maybe that was the price for being left alone otherwise.

Perpendicularity appeared in every major city, we don't know how long they will stay open, it might be just long enough for everyone in the area to reach one. I don't think any Iriali will be left behind because, Cosmere spoilers:

Spoiler

everyone on Lumar just left. We don't know how many of them were there.

 

[+Oltux72]

On 1/7/2024 at 2:19 PM, alder24 said:

Perpendicularity appeared in every major city, we don't know how long they will stay open, it might be just long enough for everyone in the area to reach one. I don't think any Iriali will be left behind because, Cosmere spoilers:

  Hide contents

everyone on Lumar just left. We don't know how many of them were there.

 

(Tress of the Emerald Sea)

Spoiler

I am sorry, but this is, I am afraid, an affair that calls for pedantery. We know none are left. We do not that they left.

In fact a whole people leaving a planet is quite impractical. The Iriali include ancient people, infirm people, mothers about to go into labor bearing twins or even sailors en route to a port in Natanatan who will hear of this proclamation only months after it is made or people in an Azish prison, just to give examples.

With the methods so far described you are going to leave a considerable minority behind, even if you are ready to assume that everybody is willing to heed the call.

(Tress of the Emerald Sea)

Spoiler

If indeed nobody is left behind, we can make two speculations

• there will be a much more robust intervention to pick up the stragglers
• or even, maybe in addition, we may consider the dark option that not heeding the call is lethal