Mid-Range Game 66: Knights of Wind and Truth

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

6 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

I mean people should probably be voting to get the free ideal by c4- note that by then, most that push for ideals will already reach 5 by C3. 

It isn't a bad thing to be not voting, but if we're all just talking and not voting our words and reads hold lower weight.

I do think voting is useful killing for killing elims and gaining ideals, I just don't think it's useful to be voting for someone just because they have (sic) votes when we're less than halfway through the cycle. Current votes should be more about suspicions and less wondering whether it's feasible to exe someone.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Devotary of Spontaneity
wrong spelling

[ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ]

4 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I do think voting is useful killing for killing elims and gaining ideals, I just don't think it's useful to be voting for someone just because they have (sic) votes when we're less than halfway through the cycle. Current votes should be more about suspicions and less wondering whether it's feasible to exe someone.

 

So who is suspicious?

[Aeoryi]

2 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I do think voting is useful killing for killing elims and gaining ideals, I just don't think it's useful to be voting for someone just because they have (sic) votes when we're less than halfway through the cycle. Current votes should be more about suspicions and less wondering whether it's feasible to exe someone.

 

 

Yeah

The thing is; no one has major suspicions

So what that means is we need to get people talking; I'm no good at asking questions but maybe this can spark discussion :

@Archer, why are you voting ashbringer? Especially when you said something about mat.

@Kasimir, would you be willing to elaborate on why you believe TJ and JNV are V?

1 minute ago, ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ said:

So who is suspicious?

Uh I don't know how to ping you, wit, but do you have any opinions on the game so far? Any gut reads? 

@Araris Valerian, what's your opinion on the roles? Are there any roles you feel are better or worse than others? Why?

@JNV, you voted for experience for saying one word and dipping. Do you think that your read on exp would've changed if he didn't say anything? Why do you think that experience said, "huh"?

@|TJ|, I don't know if you're around yet, but if you are, would you mind telling us about some thoughts you have while reading the thread.

@Ravenclawjedi42, what's your opinion on vote manip? How do you think it should be used this game, and how do you think eliminators will use it?

@STINK, how good at breakdancing are you (sorry I suck at coming up with questions)

@Devotary of Spontaneity, what would be the optimal way to use the votes to grant ideals? What would be the VC for this?

@Matrim's Dice, what's your stance on less active players?

 

[Ravenclawjedi42]

1 minute ago, Aeoryi said:

Ravenclawjedi42, what's your opinion on vote manip? How do you think it should be used this game, and how do you think eliminators will use it?

 

I think that vote manip is something that should be used sparingly by the village. The democratic function that exists in this game is usually a good one, and by village I think it should only be used in ties and/or very close votes where the person with vote manip is near certain that it is one of the people. And, of course, when they could/will be voted out. The elims will use it to defend themselves, obviously, and also sometimes to arouse suspicion on others by making it seem like they have vote manip.

[Mat]

1 hour ago, Aeoryi said:

3. The phrase "Stupid read" wasn't meant to try and attack you or the effort you've been putting into the game. I meant unnecessary read. Which it sorta isn't. I hate rp.

Not that much effort :P. But yeah, I know, I didn't take it that way-- my bad for not making that clear. I don't really think any read is unnecessary, especially on C1, if I have a thought, there's no reason not to post it /shrug

RP does make it hard to convey stuff so I understand

6 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Yeah

The thing is; no one has major suspicions

So what that means is we need to get people talking; I'm no good at asking questions but maybe this can spark discussion :

@Matrim's Dice, what's your stance on less active players?

You say "Yeah" and then leave your vote on me ._.

No one has major suspicions, but you don't typically vote on other people's suspicions. You vote on your own. Those might be the same thing, but they aren't necessarily.

They should post more :p. Ravenclaw's most recent post seems overly dictionary, if you know what I mean. You know my opinion on Exp. My opinion is essentially the same as the LG. This activity level at this stage is typical for Araris/JNV/Ash.

@Fifth Scholar what's going on with player number 12? Is that supposed to be Wit? xD

Ravenclaw

[ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ]

11 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Not that much effort :P. But yeah, I know, I didn't take it that way-- my bad for not making that clear. I don't really think any read is unnecessary, especially on C1, if I have a thought, there's no reason not to post it /shrug

RP does make it hard to convey stuff so I understand

You say "Yeah" and then leave your vote on me ._.

No one has major suspicions, but you don't typically vote on other people's suspicions. You vote on your own. Those might be the same thing, but they aren't necessarily.

They should post more :p. Ravenclaw's most recent post seems overly dictionary, if you know what I mean. You know my opinion on Exp. My opinion is essentially the same as the LG. This activity level at this stage is typical for Araris/JNV/Ash.

@Fifth Scholar what's going on with player number 12? Is that supposed to be Wit? xD

Ravenclaw

Yes I beleive that is supposed to be me.

[Aeoryi]

22 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

I think that vote manip is something that should be used sparingly by the village. The democratic function that exists in this game is usually a good one, and by village I think it should only be used in ties and/or very close votes where the person with vote manip is near certain that it is one of the people. And, of course, when they could/will be voted out. The elims will use it to defend themselves, obviously, and also sometimes to arouse suspicion on others by making it seem like they have vote manip.

Hm. In what situation would you use vote manip?

14 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Not that much effort :P. But yeah, I know, I didn't take it that way-- my bad for not making that clear. I don't really think any read is unnecessary, especially on C1, if I have a thought, there's no reason not to post it /shrug

RP does make it hard to convey stuff so I understand

You say "Yeah" and then leave your vote on me ._.

No one has major suspicions, but you don't typically vote on other people's suspicions. You vote on your own. Those might be the same thing, but they aren't necessarily.

They should post more :p. Ravenclaw's most recent post seems overly dictionary, if you know what I mean. You know my opinion on Exp. My opinion is essentially the same as the LG. This activity level at this stage is typical for Araris/JNV/Ash.

@Fifth Scholar what's going on with player number 12? Is that supposed to be Wit? xD

Ravenclaw

Mat

As Devo mentioned, it isn't actually too late to change votes. It's like, 23.5 hrs to rollover. So there you go.

Also, I forgot to ask @Ashbringer a question:

@Ashbringer, what's your opinion on archer? 

2 minutes ago, ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ said:

Yes I beleive that is supposed to be me.

Could you answer my question please? (last post on page 2)

EDIT: 

@Experience, could you explain why you said "huh" and then left? Was it IRL reasons? I saw your latest SU, but I just wanted to make sure.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Aeoryi

[Kasimir]

7 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Kas, I know they’re your bros, but you can’t v read someone who hasn’t posted  

Why not? It's a place to start. I'll add here in response to @Aeoryi's question - JNV read has actually weakened at this point, and I'm happy to leave them in a solid null territory. OG JNV read was based on the thing you guys didn't notice in Szeth's LG, which...well, JNV has acknowledged, and I think TKN might even had stated in a game prior to that. JNV goes inactive a lot more as Village. They just don't have WIM when Village, and have major WIM is Elim. Which is a rough tell to have because using it explicitly encourages inactive play. (Also polar opposite of me, but that's also a rough tell to have -.-) They even mentioned they were trying to fix it, but it wasn't happening at that point. In that sense, JNV not showing up, and especially not in response to pressure in a game with powerful Elim incentives to RP looked good to me, especially since they had the bandwidth to PM me but not threadpost. Can't really maintain that view in light of their current post, but probably washing it to null- for the moment until I check and recall whether they are this openly mercenary. Got slight LGThrenody vibes off that vote.

I noticed TJ was more grudgingly on the ball in QF66 due to the powerful RP incentive, and I also think there's a tacit Elim incentive to gun Ideals, given they get an extra life at Fifth Ideal. I saw him lurking so he saw the thread, but didn't post or do anything. Agreed he could be busy IRL, but I'll ascribe a different read if/when he shows up.

LBR, C1 V!reads ain't solid, they're more in the range of "I won't kill this guy" to "I won't help you kill this guy."

7 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

I mean you technically can't e!read them either

Theoretically you should be willing to exe or let die any player you don't V read. This includes nulls.

7 hours ago, Archer said:

Stick principle?

Fancy way of saying a thing Stick and I agree on, phrased that way for her amusement - if I don't remember you exist in the game, and I am a player who is engaged on a normal level, then you are at worst Evil (deliberately flying under the radar), and at best, a player I shouldn't care to see stays alive. I didn't pick up on Exp's one word post until Mat flagged it, which fit that thought/profile for me.

7 hours ago, Archer said:

Why not vote me then :P. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cycle's young and I gotta admit to getting a bad vibe read off Mat, actually. OG vote was a joke, but then it felt like Mat was deliberately disengaging, knowing people are aware of the fact he has a greater tendency to be oversensitive to votes on him when Evil. Also didn't really like the promotion notion - felt like it was providing cover for bad votes under the guise of 'oh I want this player to swear an Ideal.'

Don't worry, I'm still open to voting you, depending on how I feel about your latest posts!  

7 hours ago, Archer said:

By the way, I believe PMs can have multiple people in them, which is probably the way to go if you're using them to feel people out

Single player only from my understanding.

4 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

I should probably not over-expect things from others. Man I feel bad.

I don't think expecting activity here is over-expecting, but that's my 2p. A number of players complained about low activity in QF68 too, and I'll be the first to agree it's off-putting and also makes it harder to work with Village-side. Agreed people are busy and have RL, but it's always the balance yeah. 

4 hours ago, Archer said:

I'd also like to ask why people think XP is elimmy for saying 'huh'. Stalling for time while they talk in the elim doc kind of look? 

So I've sort of said why wrt the Stick Principle explanation, but my meta read actually skews the other way - E!Exp IMO plays a bit on the hyperactive and reckless side. He won't keep a dead thread alive, but he doubleposted in QF68 early on (which really should've had the effect of undermining his fakeclaim) just because he impulsively thought up a plan and decided to go with it. It's defeated if Exp is just out of time here, but barring that world, I'd be a bit surprised if he deliberately chose to try to play low profile here.

And later thread mentioned the status update. That could be a defeater, yeah.

3 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I'd rather avoid focusing on the 2nd-highest vote, at least until we see how the spread of vote manip is. Everyone's got an incentive to ascend in Ideals, but Elims have more of an incentive to help each other, and can do that in a few different ways. Plus Windrunners have incentive to mess with the final vote independently. And normal D1 rush shenanigans. Would rather not have anyone up near the vote that people actually trust. What that means in the mix of trust that's D1, who knows, but... math is not my strong suit but I'm trying to do the math here and it scares me.

I need to stop tonally V!reading people just because they post smh.

1 hour ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Also if we put three people in a tie and villagers refrain from vote manip, that commits to a no-exe, which is rarely the intended goal. Surrendering the killing power of the exe makes it easier for elims to stay alive even with the likely prospect of village dividers. If there's a small group that can be confidently deduced to have an elim in it, it's better to kill them than take away their powers.

Thank you. This is what I was getting at - the biggest issue is a no exe. I'd definitely rather not exe a Villager (my philosophy on this is known), so Mat's not wrong it's good in a V/V world, but the aim here is to find Elims. Sitting back and waiting for roles to power up is no bueno because Elims have a coordination advantage on us. This does mean using the exe (main Village tool) and good old grey cells too. Village first - role second. We need information and no flip is not really useful, especially if the player is controversial. Also reduces pressure on the Elims.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Kasimir
Deleted extra space

[Ravenclawjedi42]

10 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Hm. In what situation would you use vote manip?

The situations I mentioned above, if I was very certain of it being a certain person or in a tie. And if I would otherwise be voted out, probably.

 

26 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Ravenclaw's most recent post seems overly dictionary, if you know what I mean.

I do find that I’m pretty dictionary/encyclopedia-like, at least in speech. In this case it’s just what I happened to think, though.

[Aeoryi]

5 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Why not? It's a place to start. I'll add here in response to @Aeoryi's question - JNV read has actually weakened at this point, and I'm happy to leave them in a solid null territory. OG JNV read was based on the thing you guys didn't notice in Szeth's LG, which...well, JNV has acknowledged, and I think TKN might even had stated in a game prior to that. JNV goes inactive a lot more as Village. They just don't have WIM when Village, and have major WIM is Elim. Which is a rough tell to have because using it explicitly encourages inactive play. (Also polar opposite of me, but that's also a rough tell to have -.-) They even mentioned they were trying to fix it, but it wasn't happening at that point. In that sense, JNV not showing up, and especially not in response to pressure in a game with powerful Elim incentives to RP looked good to me, especially since they had the bandwidth to PM me but not threadpost. Can't really maintain that view in light of their current post, but probably washing it to null- for the moment until I check and recall whether they are this openly mercenary. Got slight LGThrenody vibes off that vote.

I noticed TJ was more grudgingly on the ball in QF66 due to the powerful RP incentive, and I also think there's a tacit Elim incentive to gun Ideals, given they get an extra life at Fifth Ideal. I saw him lurking so he saw the thread, but didn't post or do anything. Agreed he could be busy IRL, but I'll ascribe a different read if/when he shows up.

LBR, C1 V!reads ain't solid, they're more in the range of "I won't kill this guy" to "I won't help you kill this guy."

Theoretically you should be willing to exe or let die any player you don't V read. This includes nulls.

Fancy way of saying a thing Stick and I agree on, phrased that way for her amusement - if I don't remember you exist in the game, and I am a player who is engaged on a normal level, then you are at worst Evil (deliberately flying under the radar), and at best, a player I shouldn't care to see stays alive. I didn't pick up on Exp's one word post until Mat flagged it, which fit that thought/profile for me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cycle's young and I gotta admit to getting a bad vibe read off Mat, actually. OG vote was a joke, but then it felt like Mat was deliberately disengaging, knowing people are aware of the fact he has a greater tendency to be oversensitive to votes on him when Evil. Also didn't really like the promotion notion - felt like it was providing cover for bad votes under the guise of 'oh I want this player to swear an Ideal.'

Don't worry, I'm still open to voting you, depending on how I feel about your latest posts!  

Single player only from my understanding.

I don't think expecting activity here is over-expecting, but that's my 2p. A number of players complained about low activity in QF68 too, and I'll be the first to agree it's off-putting and also makes it harder to work with Village-side. Agreed people are busy and have RL, but it's always the balance yeah. 

So I've sort of said why wrt the Stick Principle explanation, but my meta read actually skews the other way - E!Exp IMO plays a bit on the hyperactive and reckless side. He won't keep a dead thread alive, but he doubleposted in QF68 early on (which really should've had the effect of undermining his fakeclaim) just because he impulsively thought up a plan and decided to go with it. It's defeated if Exp is just out of time here, but barring that world, I'd be a bit surprised if he deliberately chose to try to play low profile here.

And later thread mentioned the status update. That could be a defeater, yeah.

I need to stop tonally V!reading people just because they post smh.

Thank you. This is what I was getting at - the biggest issue is a no exe. I'd definitely rather not exe a Villager (my philosophy on this is known), so Mat's not wrong it's good in a V/V world, but the aim here is to find Elims. Sitting back and waiting for roles to power up is no bueno because Elims have a coordination advantage on us. This does mean using the exe (main Village tool) and good old grey cells too. Village first - role second. We need information and no flip is not really useful, especially if the player is controversial. Also reduces pressure on the Elims.

 

what is WIM? Wifi in McDonalds? 

Although while there is an RP incentive, the cycle is barely half over. It would be easy to do 3 RPs posts in just that amount of time

Yeah C1 reads don't have a whole lot of weight. It's mainly about people's stances C1.

2 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

The situations I mentioned above, if I was very certain of it being a certain person or in a tie. And if I would otherwise be voted out, probably.

 

I do find that I’m pretty dictionary/encyclopedia-like, at least in speech. In this case it’s just what I happened to think, though.

I mean just.... 2 games ago (that you played) I had to PM you the basic tyrian roles so I'm glad you made significant progress.

Although I would like to know how certain is certain for you.

[Kasimir]

4 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

what is WIM? Wifi in McDonalds? 

Want It More - a shorthand description for players who are just noticeably more motivated and engaged with the game as one alignment or the other. I blame Aman for this one.

4 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Although while there is an RP incentive, the cycle is barely half over. It would be easy to do 3 RPs posts in just that amount of time

Have you seen how much TJ struggles with RP?  

Edited to add: @Aeoryi - TJ joke aside, I agree, but that's something along the lines of 'if TJ suddenly shows up, and manages to gun RP all in one shot, that'd be grounds for me to revise my read' which is more or less what I was suggesting in the post.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Kasimir

[Aeoryi]

Just now, Kasimir said:

Want It More - a shorthand description for players who are just noticeably more motivated and engaged with the game as one alignment or the other. I blame Aman for this one.

Have you seen how much TJ struggles with RP?  

"Everyone knows Kel hates being Elim" - salmon meerkas, AN08

Yeah, neutral alignment is obviously the best.

 

Err actually no. I have only read 2 (? Maybe he was an anon) games featuring TJ, and one was MR57 were he was GMing and yeah. The other was LG92. (Yes I enjoy suffering)

[Mat]

12 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

As Devo mentioned, it isn't actually too late to change votes. It's like, 23.5 hrs to rollover. So there you go.

That… really wasn’t my point but okay

3 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Why not? It's a place to start.

I noticed TJ was more grudgingly on the ball in QF66 due to the powerful RP incentive, and I also think there's a tacit Elim incentive to gun Ideals, given they get an extra life at Fifth Ideal. I saw him lurking so he saw the thread, but didn't post or do anything. Agreed he could be busy IRL, but I'll ascribe a different read if/when he shows up.

LBR, C1 V!reads ain't solid, they're more in the range of "I won't kill this guy" to "I won't help you kill this guy."

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cycle's young and I gotta admit to getting a bad vibe read off Mat, actually. OG vote was a joke, but then it felt like Mat was deliberately disengaging, knowing people are aware of the fact he has a greater tendency to be oversensitive to votes on him when Evil. Also didn't really like the promotion notion - felt like it was providing cover for bad votes under the guise of 'oh I want this player to swear an Ideal.'

I don't think expecting activity here is over-expecting, but that's my 2p. A number of players complained about low activity in QF68 too, and I'll be the first to agree it's off-putting and also makes it harder to work with Village-side. Agreed people are busy and have RL, but it's always the balance yeah. 

I wasn’t even going to give you that it was a good place to start, but the following two paragraphs (and the rest I deleted) actually made me change my mind. At the very least I understand your POV on this even if we’re using slightly different definitions.

On the bolder section: two schools of thought here. First, I’m sad you think I’d ever deliberately disengage  Though I know that’s not exactly what you meant. But second: I didn’t exactly hold any criticism of Aeoryi’s posts back :P. If I were worried about that, I doubt I’d have been as blunt about it. And again, I’d love to hear a better explanation of why letting the second vote lie is the better option— the way I see it, it won’t ever be a good indicator of things because we all know what the second place does anyway. Votes will be motivated by it whether we talk about it or not. Might as well be on the same page about it.

Expecting activity is like the baseline and minimum expectation imo

[Ravenclawjedi42]

2 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

what is WIM? Wifi in McDonalds? 

Although while there is an RP incentive, the cycle is barely half over. It would be easy to do 3 RPs posts in just that amount of time

Yeah C1 reads don't have a whole lot of weight. It's mainly about people's stances C1.

I mean just.... 2 games ago (that you played) I had to PM you the basic tyrian roles so I'm glad you made significant progress.

Although I would like to know how certain is certain for you.

That was both of our first games, but you did your research and I…didn’t . To answer your question: Strong suspicion. If somebody is acting quite elimmy but others don’t think so, or if we had a PM interaction that could have been less suspicious on their part.

[Ashbringer]

12 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Also, I forgot to ask @Ashbringer a question:

@Ashbringer, what's your opinion on archer?

As of now? Village but watch. Archer’s stated he wants to try and find suspects, and then if he can’t go to a no/low activity player. That seems to match what he’s doing, if we take the vote on Exp as a corrected mistake. It would also indicate he set out to do something like that, as he voted me while (probably) seeing I was reading the thread without having yet posted. I don’t tend to read votes on me that suspicious. Archer as a player is good in either role, and E!Archer is… somewhat scary but not enough to fear vote. Those tend to backfire more than anything.

Although our last non-faction-time travel-game together, Elim!me did write a 500 word post on how Archer was evil and I wasn’t. So that did happen 

16 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I need to stop tonally V!reading people just because they post smh.

Since when has that ever gone wrong?

… ignore the game I just referenced above 

[Aeoryi]

2 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

That was both of our first games, but you did your research and I…didn’t . To answer your question: Strong suspicion. If somebody is acting quite elimmy but others don’t think so, or if we had a PM interaction that could have been less suspicious on their part.

I did my research:)

But yeah. Okay, now in what situation would you protect someone? What would the requirements be for you?

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

As of now? Village but watch. Archer’s stated he wants to try and find suspects, and then if he can’t go to a no/low activity player. That seems to match what he’s doing, if we take the vote on Exp as a corrected mistake. It would also indicate he set out to do something like that, as he voted me while (probably) seeing I was reading the thread without having yet posted. I don’t tend to read votes on me that suspicious. Archer as a player is good in either role, and E!Archer is… somewhat scary but not enough to fear vote. Those tend to backfire more than anything.

Although our last non-faction-time travel-game together, Elim!me did write a 500 word post on how Archer was evil and I wasn’t. So that did happen 

Since when has that ever gone wrong?

… ignore the game I just referenced above 

E!Araris is more backfire-y than e! archer, which I totally believed in back in MR65

5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

That… really wasn’t my point but okay

I wasn’t even going to give you that it was a good place to start, but the following two paragraphs (and the rest I deleted) actually made me change my mind. At the very least I understand your POV on this even if we’re using slightly different definitions.

On the bolder section: two schools of thought here. First, I’m sad you think I’d ever deliberately disengage  Though I know that’s not exactly what you meant. But second: I didn’t exactly hold any criticism of Aeoryi’s posts back :P. If I were worried about that, I doubt I’d have been as blunt about it. And again, I’d love to hear a better explanation of why letting the second vote lie is the better option— the way I see it, it won’t ever be a good indicator of things because we all know what the second place does anyway. Votes will be motivated by it whether we talk about it or not. Might as well be on the same page about it.

Expecting activity is like the baseline and minimum expectation imo

Yeah but kas does have a point you sorta did lurk... 

But then again that could've been an argument. I rank that an NAI (whatver that means) rather than a e!read.

[Ravenclawjedi42]

3 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Okay, now in what situation would you protect someone? What would the requirements be for you?

I’d protect someone only if I could change the vote to a more plausible elim suspect. I don’t have vote manip, though, so I can’t actually protect someone. I’ll reveal that much about myself….

[Aeoryi]

Just now, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

I’d protect someone only if I could change the vote to a more plausible elim suspect. I don’t have vote manip, though, so I can’t actually protect someone. I’ll reveal that much about myself….

Nononono I mean use progression to save someone, not vote-manip

[Kasimir]

5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I wasn’t even going to give you that it was a good place to start, but the following two paragraphs (and the rest I deleted) actually made me change my mind. At the very least I understand your POV on this even if we’re using slightly different definitions.

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I think in general I am more willing to be wrong on C1, since I trust myself to either correct enough as things go on, or to be dead  

4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Since when has that ever gone wrong?

… ignore the game I just referenced above 

YOU SAID YOU'D NEVER MENTION THAT AGAIN

7 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

On the bolder section: two schools of thought here. First, I’m sad you think I’d ever deliberately disengage  Though I know that’s not exactly what you meant. But second: I didn’t exactly hold any criticism of Aeoryi’s posts back :P. If I were worried about that, I doubt I’d have been as blunt about it. And again, I’d love to hear a better explanation of why letting the second vote lie is the better option— the way I see it, it won’t ever be a good indicator of things because we all know what the second place does anyway. Votes will be motivated by it whether we talk about it or not. Might as well be on the same page about it.

 

Sorry - didn't mean deliberately disengage in the inactivity sense. What I meant was that you were deliberately ignoring that vote on you and engaging with just Aeoryi's posts because you're aware E!you often gets flak for tone in how you respond to votes on you. Agreed it was clearly a joke vote on you, but even so. I have been wondering if it's overcompensation, as E!you has definitely deliberately tried to hide your known issues before.

I'm...not sure getting bogged down with Aeoryi is necessarily as V!indicative though, because Aeoryi's pushes can be a bit odd at times. But don't fully disagree here.

People will do what they want with it. For all that focus on strategising and ties in the thread, I haven't been too bothered to engage because I really think it's not going to pan out. Village coordination hasn't been good historically, and a number of the voting/tie strats require broad consensus. So my whole point isn't about whether people are going to use the second vote or not. It's about making that the Thing To Do/We Should Do, which is what the whole discussion was about. And here, I think the issue is whether we're going to accept, in general, "I wanted X to swear an ideal because I V!read them" as an alright reason or not, and my concern is that it's an easy way to allow people to wash really bad votes but at the same time, cast cheap fear votes.

You can argue it's a matter of contextual reading and I won't disagree but I also won't agree to just accepting it as generally a good strat because of dilution concerns.

[Ravenclawjedi42]

3 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Nononono I mean use progression to save someone, not vote-manip

Oh! In that case, if I had it, I’d probably use it to save whoever I currently think is the most villagery if my other surge did not seem helpful that cycle.

[Aeoryi]

5 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I think in general I am more willing to be wrong on C1, since I trust myself to either correct enough as things go on, or to be dead  

YOU SAID YOU'D NEVER MENTION THAT AGAIN

Sorry - didn't mean deliberately disengage in the inactivity sense. What I meant was that you were deliberately ignoring that vote on you and engaging with just Aeoryi's posts because you're aware E!you often gets flak for tone in how you respond to votes on you. Agreed it was clearly a joke vote on you, but even so. I have been wondering if it's overcompensation, as E!you has definitely deliberately tried to hide your known issues before.

I'm...not sure getting bogged down with Aeoryi is necessarily as V!indicative though, because Aeoryi's pushes can be a bit odd at times. But don't fully disagree here.

People will do what they want with it. For all that focus on strategising and ties in the thread, I haven't been too bothered to engage because I really think it's not going to pan out. Village coordination hasn't been good historically, and a number of the voting/tie strats require broad consensus. So my whole point isn't about whether people are going to use the second vote or not. It's about making that the Thing To Do/We Should Do, which is what the whole discussion was about. And here, I think the issue is whether we're going to accept, in general, "I wanted X to swear an ideal because I V!read them" as an alright reason or not, and my concern is that it's an easy way to allow people to wash really bad votes but at the same time, cast cheap fear votes.

You can argue it's a matter of contextual reading and I won't disagree but I also won't agree to just accepting it as generally a good strat because of dilution concerns.

Man you should definitely read MR65 or LG97- (those were the two games I played) I do this kind of thing [weird pushes] a lot. 

Also, just to echo what was said there, trying to articulate a suspific VC to get the 2nd ideal is going to be extremely hard. 

It's already hard enough to get one person lynched without difficulty, two will be even more difficult, nearly impossible.

 

12 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

Oh! In that case, if I had it, I’d probably use it to save whoever I currently think is the most villagery if my other surge did not seem helpful that cycle.

What's your stance on ideals?

[Ravenclawjedi42]

8 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

What's your stance on ideals?

Ideals are important and should probably be sworn, as they would be quite helpful. I myself am looking forward to getting my second surge (if I don’t die soon) and the other features seem good. The main thing that worries me is how the elims get an extra life on their fourth? ideal.

[Aeoryi]

6 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

Ideals are important and should probably be sworn, as they would be quite helpful. I myself am looking forward to getting my second surge (if I don’t die soon) and the other features seem good. The main thing that worries me is how the elims get an extra life on their fourth? ideal.

I think it was their fifth (lol because it's fifth running this game)- at 4 they gain a new action unique to their role.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Aeoryi
Added lol

[Kasimir]

9 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Man you should definitely read MR65 or LG97- (those were the two games I played) I do this kind of thing [weird pushes] a lot. 

Why? I V!read you for now. It's definitely possible you could be deepwolfing, but I'm cool with a V!read for the moment.

No strong read on Ravenclaw just yet, FWIW, and Maaaaat is making me doubt again. So not cool bro. Unless you're Village in which case it is Very Cool  

---

"Callar said there are traitors here," Ellu said, slouching on Keleran's knee. Tiny flakes of rock dust drifted through the air as she moved. Not for the first time, Keleran found himself wondering where they came from.

"Probably," said Keleran. He tried to imagine what could make Radiants turn; what could make them decide to betray the rest of the Coalition. He almost laughed at himself. He wanted to run away from the front lines, wanted to be anything other than a Knight Radiant. No, he corrected himself. He wanted his old life back, throwing up at the sight of a bleeding soldier on the surgery table. Because Keleran hadn't been much of a surgeon either, but someone had to do it.

"Well, we're going to find them, right?" she said, confidently.

"I guess," Keleran let out his breath in a long sigh. "It's just..."

"Just what?"

"How do we find them?" Keleran asked, quietly. "And what do we do when we find them?"

Ellu wrinkled her nose. "That's a Skybreaker question," she informed him. "Or a Windrunner question. We just need to work together to find them, and have some faith in our hearts, or we'll worry ourselves sick!"

Keleran shook his head. He didn't think faith alone was going to cut it. But he saw what Ellu meant. The squad was going to have to work together, and that meant—doing all the things Callar seemed to expect them to do. Talking with others (and he hadn't the faintest idea why Phil Swift of all people expected him to be spending a great deal of time talking to the others when he had sword drill to word on) and trying to identify the traitors.

Callar seemed resigned to the search. Keleran felt the same sense of resignation, and of obligation. He had to do something. They had to do something but the only person Keleran could start with was himself.

He got to his feet. "We're going to find some traitors?" Ellu asked, and Stormfather, Keleran did not understand why the idea excited her so much.

"That's Skybreaker levels of enthusiasm here, Ellu," he said, straight-faced.

Silence.

Ellu giggled. "You just cracked a joke! I didn't think you had it in you! Callar totally owes me snacks now!"

Keleran pinched the bridge of his nose with the fingers of his free hand. "Are you...are you gambling with Callar? Why are you gambling with the Captain, please stop."

"Why not?"

"You're a menace." A determined menace, at that.

"Yup, I am!"

[Araris Valerian]

Life before death. Any field of lavis polyps would inevitably become infested with worms, and by the time you went through the lot, some of the crop would be dead, or beyond salvaging. But, well, dwell on that instead of getting on saving the ones that could be saved, that was a way to starve the whole town. Aradon scratched his head. The Knight's Radiant weren't quite lavis polyps, and none of them here were dead yet, so maybe he didn't know what he was talking about. He called out to his spren.

"Spark, what do we do?"

A ribbon of blue light whirled around Aradon's head before resolving into the form of a boy, dressed for playing, standing midair. Spark, infuriatingly, began scratching his own head in imitation of Aradon. Honorspren never seemed to entirely distance themselves from the habits of their cousins, the windspren.

"Why ask me?"

"You're an honorspren. I'd like to act with honor, but all I've ever known is farming. Not much honor to be found there"

The boy crossed his arms and frowned more seriously. "Sure there is. What would happen if you dallied in your work. Said you wormed the whole field but really had passed on a row or two."

Aradon scowled. "No farmer worth his crem would do that."

Spark twirled in the air, a triumphant grin on his face. "And that's why I know you'll act with honor here. Folk are going to die. And no Knight worth his oaths is going to sit back and just let it happen. Life before death."

With that, the spren flew into the sky, dancing on the currents of air. Aradon sighed, and headed for the field. Time to get talking to folks.

-Transition to non-RP-

Alright, some game thoughts. I don't think we should mess with the exe to manipulate who gets the extra ideal, especially C1. The exe is our tool for finding elims, first and foremost. If some folks get a bit stronger on the side, we can worry about them later. And a vote for "giving someone an ideal" is a vote that doesn't help determine that player's alignment. No sense giving the elims somewhere to hide. Points to Archer for expressing something similar.

Gonna park my vote on Wit for now, as someone who claims to have played mafia a bunch but also is asking who is suspicious. Seems a little incongruous and maybe like he's been focusing energy outside the thread.

Honestly thinking about voting Mat as well, despite my earlier statement about RP. Mostly in regards to the second vote and his engagement with Aeoryi.

In response to Aeoryi, I'm not sure that it's meaningful to compare the power levels of the roles, due to redirects and roleblocks, which simultaneously have a power level determined by the strongest other roles and diminish the power of said roles. But since I'm a bit biased, I'll say the Windrunner is the most powerful. Vote manip+roleblock is very versatile.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Araris Valerian