Long Game 95: The Fire of Ado's Light

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

Hi. About to work a 12-hour shift so expect me…after that  

Will note that Researchers will kinda have to scramble to not get crushed by the setup here >>

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Thank u for posting so I don't have to double-post

 

You know, I was wondering if there was anything game-related to actually discuss rn, but there actually is something I think:

Which shards do you want to see released first, and which ones would you rather stayed in containment for a while longer?

Shards will get released from containment, I think we should take that as inevitable, and in any case I don't particularly think it's a bad thing.

But they won't get released all at once. By my count, at the very most, only 5 shards could be released tonight.

So, do you guys think there's an order in which we should prioritize them? Regardless of which shard any one person individually wants (I specifically don't think we should discuss that in the thread for infosec reasons), are there ones we generally agree are better to get out sooner rather than later, and ones which we generally agree can or should wait? This is an issue where our group consensus does sort of matter. A given shard only breaches containment if at least 4 people target it, and we can't get all the shards out this cycle only some, so the ones people generally agree on should go first, will be much more likely to be the ones that actually go first.

I do have Opinions™ on the subject (personally I think the ***optimal*** 5 shards to release from containment this cycle would be Endowment, Dominion, Survival, Odium, and Ruin) but I am curious to hear what others think, and why.

 

To be fully honest, if I ever get a shard (and in a game with this number of players the odds are pretty high it happens eventually), I am very probably not gonna just not use it I am probably not gonna go out of my way much to avoid intent conversion, and I kind of wouldn't mind just vibing doing my own thing in the game with a neutral win con, without being anyone's enemy. I wanna have me a chill memeful game. But I am still a villager rn so for rn you'd best believe I'll act accordingly >:P.

[DeTess she/her]

@DrakeMarshall before the Odium Investiture change I'd say it is important to get Odium out to limit the amount of killing investiture, but with the nerf it is not quite that bad.

I fully expect Ruin and Odium to get broken out today, but I would be pleasantly surprised if they aren't.

I'd say honor, survival and dominion are on my shortlist for village useful shards as they give protection (and honor in particular is unlikely to go too badly rogue on its personal wincon). I'd say Ambition is also useful because its vessel could talk to dead players.

Odium and Ruin both have kills, but are also likely to go pretty badly rogue once they flip neutral, so I'd prefer them to remain in containment, even though that is unlikely.

Mercy feels like a Shard that uniquely benefits the elims, as they have more insight into valid execution targets, and opinions on who they want to live. That might be reason to jailbreak it now to reduce chances of the elims getting it through a concerted push later.

Prudence creates PM's, which is allways nice.

So my shortlist for N1 would be honor, dominion, ambition, mercy and prudence, in roughly that order from most to least important.

[Archer he/him]

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

. But I am still a villager rn so for rn you'd best believe I'll act accordingly >:P.

*doubt*

2 minutes ago, DeTess said:

@DrakeMarshall 

Prudence creates PM's, which is allways nice.

Why so low on PMs? Like, lower than the one you said is elim leaning 

General reminder that world hopping is a DAY action. Had to check that. 

GM, were the secret wincons made public? I can't find the words secret rules in the doc anywhere. 

[DeTess she/her]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

 

Why so low on PMs? Like, lower than the one you said is elim leaning 

You can get PM's from just the investiture and the world docs can partially perform the PM role as well, so I don't think it is as important as making it more difficult for the elims to get Mercy.

[Kasimir he/him]

3 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Sir do I look like a Crocodile to you >:|

Yes >:(

3 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

What kind of music do Cryptic DJs play :eyes:

Listen And Find Out :eyes:

Gotta be less Divisive than Highspren DJs.

3 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Sir that is a remarkably anti-village thing for you to say I can get behind taking this game easy, though. I for one don't really know how to village in this game but highstorm raves sounds like a perfectly reasonable strategy to me

I've spelled my rationale out. Taking a Village game seriously simply leads to the Village letting you down. It's like project work only worse because rather than hard work ensuring everyone passes the project together, the group mates who dgaf and sign up for this game anyway will bomb your project and you all fail together  We've decided it's fine to focus on having fun in a game rather than caring about your wincon and that this reasoning applies to players who sign up and don't care, so why should I? If anyone thinks this is remotely problematic and @s me for it but hasn't remotely bothered condemning similar behaviour when it showed up previously and extremely recently, then it's clear they're hypocrites who only care if they think it might affect them. I really don't need to care. Whatchu gonna do to stop me from slacking off and chulling, kill me? K, cool, I'll go back to playing Digimon and watching Death Stranding LPs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not needing to give a damn is extremely liberating.

There's an OOG element where given the people who will be converting out and probably seeking Intent Conversion, why bother? You yourself point out you intend to change your playstyle if you get converted. It's a faction game and faction games usually end up in at least one player screwing others over and causing dRaMa because of how factions work. Even worse since Intent wincons are all secret. The implication is that even more than a regular game, my wincon isn't in my control, so I'm not going to put in time/energy chasing it.

It's not pro-Village but I've already laid out my motivations for being way less pro-Village than usual without actually blatantly naming the game responsible for this dire shift in views. I don't particularly care if anyone likes it or not. I just spell it out because converters should know that this also means I dgaf about you and will not be remotely interested in playing srs just because I got converted.

I will however join you in crypto memes and highstorm raves :eyes:

[STINK he/him]

Without PMs I stare blankly at the wall, blinds next to me slightly open so I am not fully in the darkness but still closed enough that it's suggestive and evoking of such a thing, as it should be. What does one person do when confronted with such a thing as a thread?

The rules doc looms over me, an indecipherable jabber of letters into words into sentences into perhaps paragraphs if you'll allow it. The sheer presence of it is enough to make me think about my posture, and by reading this you're thinking about your posture too. Straighten those backs everyone, and put those shoulders into it. I can tell you now that mine wasn't that good, so there won't be any judgement coming from me (unless somebody has great posture already? Maybe then you can get some approval if you want it).

Is it okay to end sentences with brackets that don't have anything after it? A mystery to ponder, question the basic rules of this language rather than the rules of this game. Both more complex than initially thought, what an apt metaphor that has been crafted before your eyes, or ears for any audio-readers out there. This next word goes out to you, antidisestablishmentarian. Bet that was fun to hear and doesn't happen often. 

I'm gonna go make lunch now, but I'll also leave what one AI thinks should be my departing words to the thread for this post:

"Farewell thread, until we meet again in another jabber of letters and words and sentences, pondering life's mysteries and straightening our postures together."

[Kasimir he/him]

@STINK yo do u want a thread PM

we can try to exceed our 3 in AG7 :eyes:

Edited to add:

@DrakeMarshall

The things I do for DAO bro -.-

• No particular wishlist. Do want Dominion and Survival out. I'm down with Endowment and probably Honour too. Omakase for the last one. Unless I'm missing something, there's no NK, but realistically, the other factions would eventually be gunning either for vote firepower or NK power in the form of Odium and Ruin. Am not so confident Village can keep those two, so almost want them secure in containment. But I just tend to dislike kills if they can be opted out of - feel that this will force people to show their hands more, publicly. This gives something to be tracked. (But then the question is: is it really practicable to opt out of them? I'm not so sure.)
   
• Same rationale for disliking Prudence being out, as much as I like PMs. I don't see function over and above thread and world docs, given this game population size and the fact it's probably only going to shrink. Mid-game yes maybe and I can't deny I'd like PMs so I don't have to tell the Village how much I'm expecting them to let me down in the thread since it's a bit rude to tell them I completely expect them to disappoint me, but there you go  Personal desires v. perceived utility...eh.
   
• Like I don't disagree that being able to PM allows certain screwy strategies, and I would know - I just don't really place that much of a premium on them in this landscape.
   
• I fully intend to go for whatever charges make me happy from a RP perspective.

This is as many chulls as I expect to give tonight. That's it. I'm done here. Back to Death Stranding.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Kasimir

[Turtle]

ok im here time to reread the rules and cry at the rollover time bc i cannot feasibly be awake at 1am and make my life work and yet the urge is strong

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

Hullo people

Just got one thing to say

Let the Lord of Chaos rule! >:P

And also who needs rules? >:P

[Turtle]

7 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Hullo people

Just got one thing to say

Let the Lord of Chaos rule! >:P

And also who needs rules? >:P

-yes Chaos is lord ruler of the forums

-you wrote 'here' rather than 'hear' in one of our past PMs and it's been bugging me so I'm gonna mention it now

-we may need rules to functionally play a game. maybe. i'm sure someone out there has studied this.

 

[The Unknown Order he/him]

8 hours ago, DeTess said:

After last game, I fully agree. Matrim.

I'll be doing a bunch of travelling today, so I won't be able to start RPing (or any other major activity) until tomorrow.

I was going to sus doubling up on Mat so early. Then I remembered. 

8 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Good question, which shard do you think most embodies crypto :eyes:

My quest is shardic power, my favorite color is this, and the world doc is my oyster. We need to pick which planet to consume with memes though

I'm kind of tempted to say Threnody, just bc it's out of the way and I doubt anyone really cares if we're just vibing there.

Roshar is also very tempting though since we can mine crypto random charges of investiture there. If nothing else, this gives us a sustainable source of betting chips for use in the epic gambling I am totally gonna start.

I have a strong urge to follow you guys wherever you go, but otherwise I'm leaning Roshar, Nalthis, or maybe Sel. I don't really want the stuff going on in Nalthis to go unchecked (doubled vote is pretty nice), and Roshar is going to be packed. And Sel is nice.

6 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Sir do I look like a Crocodile to you >:|

If anything I currently have more of a Toucan vibe

What kind of music do Cryptic DJs play :eyes:

Sir that is a remarkably anti-village thing for you to say I can get behind taking this game easy, though. I for one don't really know how to village in this game but highstorm raves sounds like a perfectly reasonable strategy to me

Cryptic DJs play synth music (that's a genre, right? I only know four genres, Rap, for degenerates, Pop, for feminine degenerates, Classical, for weider fancy people, and Country, for real people. And there's rock, but we don't talk about that)

4 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Thank u for posting so I don't have to double-post

 

You know, I was wondering if there was anything game-related to actually discuss rn, but there actually is something I think:

Which shards do you want to see released first, and which ones would you rather stayed in containment for a while longer?

Shards will get released from containment, I think we should take that as inevitable, and in any case I don't particularly think it's a bad thing.

But they won't get released all at once. By my count, at the very most, only 5 shards could be released tonight.

So, do you guys think there's an order in which we should prioritize them? Regardless of which shard any one person individually wants (I specifically don't think we should discuss that in the thread for infosec reasons), are there ones we generally agree are better to get out sooner rather than later, and ones which we generally agree can or should wait? This is an issue where our group consensus does sort of matter. A given shard only breaches containment if at least 4 people target it, and we can't get all the shards out this cycle only some, so the ones people generally agree on should go first, will be much more likely to be the ones that actually go first.

I do have Opinions™ on the subject (personally I think the ***optimal*** 5 shards to release from containment this cycle would be Endowment, Dominion, Survival, Odium, and Ruin) but I am curious to hear what others think, and why.

 

To be fully honest, if I ever get a shard (and in a game with this number of players the odds are pretty high it happens eventually), I am very probably not gonna just not use it I am probably not gonna go out of my way much to avoid intent conversion, and I kind of wouldn't mind just vibing doing my own thing in the game with a neutral win con, without being anyone's enemy. I wanna have me a chill memeful game. But I am still a villager rn so for rn you'd best believe I'll act accordingly >:P.

I'll get back to this, might just rank the shards like five different ways.

20 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Hullo people

Just got one thing to say

Let the Lord of Chaos rule! >:P

And also who needs rules? >:P

For the Dragon!

Correction: Who needs to pay attention to the rules? >B(

9 minutes ago, Turtle said:

-yes Chaos is lord ruler of the forums

-you wrote 'here' rather than 'hear' in one of our past PMs and it's been bugging me so I'm gonna mention it now

-we may need rules to functionally play a game. maybe. i'm sure someone out there has studied this.

 

This is the only logical place to reveal this information, I agree.

It depends. Is 'there are no rules,' a rule?

@Ashbringer, if it helps, my character is a Mistborn that is half pretending to be crazy, half actually crazy due to some shannonigansTM.

I'm going to go crazy with this mechanics, so bye while I sift through them.

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

20 minutes ago, Turtle said:

you wrote 'here' rather than 'hear' in one of our past PMs and it's been bugging me so I'm gonna mention it now

Wait, really?

Sorry 'bout that.

22 minutes ago, Turtle said:

-we may need rules to functionally play a game. maybe. i'm sure someone out there has studied this.

Nah. I say just chuck investiture at people and see what happens :eyes:

[Turtle]

found a study on the definition of a game and rules! have not read it!

Suits, Bernard. “What Is a Game?” Philosophy of Science 34, no. 2 (1967): 148–56. http://www.jstor.org/stable/186102.

 

fight me i like chicago

 

edit: i will endeavor to make my 1000th post genuinely substantial. we shall see.

edit 2: I found one specifically on children's games! this is more of what i was looking for.

Linaza, José. “Piaget’s Marbles: The Study of Children’s Games and Their Knowledge of Rules.” Oxford Review of Education 10, no. 3 (1984): 271–74. http://www.jstor.org/stable/1050429.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Turtle

[Mat he/him]

It was then when he realized he had no actual concept of how the rules work

...I'll try to get that sorted out :P. It does mean I don't have any thoughts on the mech discussion right now, but I am here. I don't know how present I'll be as I have a chem final today but it's N0 so that's fine I think.

Love to see I'm as popular as ever though <3

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

6 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

 

It was then when he realized he had no actual concept of how the rules work

 

 

Same 

EDIT: Odium Reigns…

Edited June 6, 2023 by TheAlpha929

[Turtle]

14 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

It was then when he realized he had no actual concept of how the rules work

...I'll try to get that sorted out :P. It does mean I don't have any thoughts on the mech discussion right now, but I am here. I don't know how present I'll be as I have a chem final today but it's N0 so that's fine I think.

Love to see I'm as popular as ever though <3

-conversion

-steal charges of investiture, gives abilities

-four charges stolen in one night from the same shard releases them from containment, one random (?) person who takes a charge becomes the vessel of that shard

-village wins when all 3rd parties are dead or if all shards are in containment and leaders of 3rd parties are ded

i think?

this is what i've figured out so far

Edit: also 3rd parties win by outnumbering and shards have Super Secret wincons

there are also different shardworlds that u can hop to during day that give a shardworld doc to chat in and special abilities

silverlight (which is where we all are) does not have a doc

actions can either target someone on the same shardworld as u or someone on silverlight, unless you are on silverlight in which case you girlboss your way into being able to target Everyone

I think

Edited June 6, 2023 by Turtle

[Araris Valerian he/him]

You win if everyone else is dead, I believe. That tends to hold true in most SE games.

[Turtle]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

You win if everyone else is dead, I believe. That tends to hold true in most SE games.

so is the game plan to kill everyone? i've made that work before.

[The Unknown Order he/him]

Just now, Turtle said:

so is the game plan to kill everyone? i've made that work before.

This is why I don't want Odium or Ruin, one of their secret wincons is going to be serial killer.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

There is a balance, between releasing shards we want the village to have, and loosing ones we don't want the elims to have.

As a reminder, the elim factions are small right now. Furthermore, if they want to grow, they have to spend their night action on converting people, which means not spending it on siphoning Investiture. As a member of elim docs in two previous shard games, this is a tradeoff I'm pretty familiar with In other words: if we take it as a given that all shards will breach containment eventually, tonight is arguably the best night for releasing some of the problematic shards, because it is the night when those shards are significantly less likely to fall into elim hands. Keeping them in containment for longer means you can put off dealing with them, but you are also greatly increasing the odds that when they do get out the elims will have a shot at getting them.

Respectfully, if you don't want a certain shard to be in play because you are worried about other people abusing it, then I'd argue you would be best served by taking it yourself, instead of just kind of vaguely hoping that nobody takes it. If you're worried about people abusing a shard, then that furnishes pretty strong evidence that you believe it won't stay in containment regardless of your wishes.

That is all.

 

3 hours ago, Archer said:

*doubt*

no u >:(

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Yes >:(

Sir I am a Drake not a crocodile smh

Quote

Listen And Find Out :eyes:

Gotta be less Divisive than Highspren DJs.

shudders we don't talk about Highspren DJs

the D in Highspren DJs stands for Division

Well I'll subscribe to cryptic music if its the hot new thing :eyes:

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

@STINK yo do u want a thread PM

we can try to exceed our 3 in AG7 :eyes:

Edited to add:

@DrakeMarshall

The things I do for DAO bro -.-

• No particular wishlist. Do want Dominion and Survival out. I'm down with Endowment and probably Honour too. Omakase for the last one. Unless I'm missing something, there's no NK, but realistically, the other factions would eventually be gunning either for vote firepower or NK power in the form of Odium and Ruin. Am not so confident Village can keep those two, so almost want them secure in containment. But I just tend to dislike kills if they can be opted out of - feel that this will force people to show their hands more, publicly. This gives something to be tracked. (But then the question is: is it really practicable to opt out of them? I'm not so sure.)
   
• Same rationale for disliking Prudence being out, as much as I like PMs. I don't see function over and above thread and world docs, given this game population size and the fact it's probably only going to shrink. Mid-game yes maybe and I can't deny I'd like PMs so I don't have to tell the Village how much I'm expecting them to let me down in the thread since it's a bit rude to tell them I completely expect them to disappoint me, but there you go  Personal desires v. perceived utility...eh.
   
• Like I don't disagree that being able to PM allows certain screwy strategies, and I would know - I just don't really place that much of a premium on them in this landscape.
   
• I fully intend to go for whatever charges make me happy from a RP perspective.

This is as many chulls as I expect to give tonight. That's it. I'm done here. Back to Death Stranding.

Sorry DAO bro

Honestly I'm trying to have a more chill non-serious game but I guess I'm just not very good at it lol

Maybe vacationing to Roshar for the entire rest of the game will help >:P that's the plan

FWIW I think you've actually convinced me about Prudence

[Turtle]

2 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

This is why I don't want Odium or Ruin, one of their secret wincons is going to be serial killer.

Hm. This is true. I'm making a spreadsheet.

1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Respectfully, if you don't want a certain shard to be in play because you are worried about other people abusing it, then I'd argue you would be best served by taking it yourself, instead of just kind of vaguely hoping that nobody takes it.

This is also very true. If you become a vessel but don't use your powers, you don't end up with the Secret Wincon, right?

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

So I discovered that there is a conversion 

someone convert me now

[Turtle]

3 minutes ago, TheAlpha929 said:

So I discovered that there is a conversion 

someone convert me now

Join the dark side, and we can rule the world together!! With cookies!!

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

hello fellow villagers >:)

I have my awoken

5 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Which shards do you want to see released first, and which ones would you rather stayed in containment for a while longer?

Honestly, I haven’t really done the math but I don’t think Shards being released is as good for the 17th Shard as this seems to imply. Intent conversion is very and should be avoided at all costs. That being said, I do think some of the more elim-leaning (or smaller-faction-leaning, I guess) Shards, like Mercy and Endowment, should be priorities, since as we get further into the game, the elims essentially get free Shards if they have enough people working together.

In other news, I’m not going to be very helpful the next ~4 days. I went on vacation, then got COVID, and when I got back to school I found that nothing had gotten done on this big group project that’s due on Friday. So now I’m scrambling to get everyone organized so we can get done on time >:(