Long Game 95: The Fire of Ado's Light

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

1 minute ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

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nobody liked my rng idea :,(

 

The RNG idea was solid, we just... Flubbed the execution a bit

Most people have a specific shard that they have their eye on, I'd expect. It may not be logical but it do be like that sometimes.

The heart wants what it wants, and the heart is an expert on vessels.

15 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

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Spoiler

 

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said:

The RNG idea was solid, we just... Flubbed the execution a bit

Most people have a specific shard that they have their eye on, I'd expect. It may not be logical but it do be like that sometimes.

The heart wants what it wants, and the heart is an expert on vessels.

and as we know personal vanity always trumps optimal village play

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Turtle said:

sorry i dont have much context is your playstyle this game like, a protest-esque thing? i agree w tun that it would be great to see more reads from you, but i understand if ur just kinda done w caring bc of the events of lg94

I'm going to put my response to you in a spoiler because I'm not really pulling it, and I'm sure everyone is sick of me expecting a minimum standard of play from fellow Villagers like actually voting, participating in a goddamned LG you signed up for, and sending in actions to help your team 

The short of it is that I'm extremely disillusioned and demoralised and don't care to soften my words on what is explicitly motivating my abrupt 180 from my usual playstyle for anyone.

Spoiler

 

It's not a protest. It's my being absolutely fed-up with giving any effort whatsoever if my team (Village that game) is just not going to bother either. I can play my heart out, die, and then watch my team hand it in because - why? TotK I guess, or other stuff that's More Important. (Note: None of this is RL stuff - it's pure dgaf.) Also Game Affecting Actions Are For N00bs!!!

So what? I can play my heart out and treat this like a serious game. And even more than in a game where no one gave a damn to play it properly, my team can get screwed over by players who Intent Convert and then decide to play in an anti-Village neutral way.

Fundamentally:

A. No one is going to condemn anti-Village actions. I am sick to the hilt of listening to players Not Want To Say Anything At All about players who don't wanna play.
B. The previous game has proven viscerally that I can give the Village my 150% to the point of playing through COVID (I don't expect people to do this, tbf, and there were extenuating circumstances) and my team will still get screwed over by people who DGAF. In other words, my doing my best will not actually have an enduring or significant impact on my wincon.
C. Even more than in a normal game, this is a faction game. Players will backstab, Intent Convert, play with Elim factions as neutrals for the lulz and because it's funny. I understand the game design decision to make neutral wincons secret, but this also means that as a Villager, I cannot work with a neutral in a way that is balanced for both of us. The neutral knows how they can influence my wincon; I don't know what I can do about theirs. This knowledge is power, and means that neutrals can in effect take actions with moderate impunity against my team. I have to fundamentally rely on their sense of decency, and let's face it, Village isn't 'cool', as much as I love it, and most players will probably want to play both sides or play the Elims for the lulz. I don't condemn that decision, to be clear. But it does have implications for how much I can influence my own wincon, and I don't judge the odds of doing so to be high. 

None of this inspires me to want to play this game seriously or to analyse. I can legitimately reverse the decision and go full throttle now.

And then what happens?

Probably I die at some point, maybe the Village takes this game seriously, maybe I get converted, maybe the neutrals screw us. Who knows? I certainly don't. There's a very high chance I am setting myself up for further disappointment and disillusionment, more so than in a regular game. So why do it?

 

So no, not gonna. Too bad. If you want to lynch me, go ahead. Y'all are taking the game seriously, that's your prerogative. I accepted this risk when I chose to just play however the hell I want and to method act everything Evgeny does. But I'm going to just RP and chill with Drake and do whatever the chulls I feel like, and right now I do not remotely feel like doing reads or analysis. Call it a case of being seriously disillusioned or demotivated.

I'm sure there's probably something someone is burning to say about OOG things and gameplay but the chulls I have to give about that are in the negative and burned and withered away in the complete lack of chulls anyone had to give at all and the tepid response to seriously demoralising bad behaviour. Also hypocrisy. There's probably a nicer way to put the fact I don't care to play this game seriously, but I'm not a very nice person

4 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

The RNG idea was solid, we just... Flubbed the execution a bit

Most people have a specific shard that they have their eye on, I'd expect. It may not be logical but it do be like that sometimes.

The heart wants what it wants, and the heart is an expert on vessels.

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Spoiler

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

15 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

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Spoiler

 

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

(For reference, Drake, Kas, since your records disagree, the move-by-move thus far is 1. d4 Nf6 2. f3 g6 3. e4)

I think TJ and Wiz are putting themselves on my Khriss shortlist but I might need to see more before I jump on that

[Kasimir he/him]

25 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

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Spoiler

 

[Mat he/him]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

 LG94 demonstrated we genuinely do not care if players sign up for a game and refuse to play. No one will say anything about it and we accept and normalise this behaviour.

I care, I just happened to be in a position during LG94 where inactivity was beneficial, even if I didn't necessarily feel super good about it. I'm not very good at pushing the issue anyway, though, even though it does irk me, and I think at this point this isn't the conversation for the thread.

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Mat has zero sense of paranoia despite getting a bunch of joke votes. That's gotta count for something. I believe that red text, even with no weight behind it, does count for something in terms of ability to project impending doom

At this point I'm used to it. Obviously I felt nothing in regards to joke votes during a night turn, and I saw no indication that they would carry over to today. Dunno what the heck Wiz is doing. I could say that there's a point where it's elim indicative to vote me D1 nonchalantly but I really don't think we've reached that point yet and I see Wiz's vote as a routine poke.

I'll try to read some more of last turn and get some reads, but I don't think I'll be extremely active this game. TKN/TBB is probably my strongest elim read as I didn't like him lumping all the neutrals in one category when imo they're very very different from each other.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

I care, I just happened to be in a position during LG94 where inactivity was beneficial, even if I didn't necessarily feel super good about it. I'm not very good at pushing the issue anyway, though, even though it does irk me, and I think at this point this isn't the conversation for the thread.

This will never be the conversation. No one gave a damn after the game, despite ample opportunity to speak on this. I'm also not interested in having this conversation with you now as I think it's bloody rich that suddenly this matters when it didn't when people actually had a chance to condemn it. 

The conversation is never happening because no one wants to have it. You want to open it in meta? I guarantee you it will die and collapse within a few posts and nothing will come out of it.

No thank you.

I've said my bit. I am not analysing and I refuse to be guilted or threatened or otherwise pressured into doing analysis and I do not give a damn.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

5 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

(For reference, Drake, Kas, since your records disagree, the move-by-move thus far is 1. d4 Nf6 2. f3 g6 3. e4)

Wait they do? that sequence looks fine to me

Honestly I am mostly just giggling uncontrollably that someone else is actually tracking our game

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

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Spoiler

 

[|TJ| he/him]

[OOC: Gonna turn off Al Speak here for a second, I have spoken/mentioned by frustration about the game personally to Kas, and I do think there are definitely ways to show healthy contribution to village victory even by spending less time on the game making less than 5 posts per cycle IF players care about victory. And I do think even if they feel at times demotivated, they owe it to other other villagers who have put the effort to do so. There is a big difference between DGAF thread energy and minimal but important strong thread contribution.]

2 hours ago, The Bald Brandon said:

But (this isn't a threat) if you legitimately don't put out analysis sometime in the next couple of turns, I'm going to start thinking Ash was cruel enough to make you an elim.

If we rely on meta-analysis every time, it just means we're forcing players into playstyles and never really give them a chance to try out something new. Kas is long overdue a chill game imo, and we're good players here, we can figure out if Kas is evil without having to ask Kas to change is playstyle. And besides, if Kas is village, I'm sure he can show it without going all-in on his usual analysis style. 

---

37 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

I think TJ and Wiz are putting themselves on my Khriss shortlist but I might need to see more before I jump on that

watchya mean?

[Kasimir he/him]

21 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Wait they do? that sequence looks fine to me

Honestly I am mostly just giggling uncontrollably that someone else is actually tracking our game

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Spoiler

I won't have PC access tomorrow so just gonna not do the images at this point, RIP sorry >>

Yeah basically  And vignere is more or less the simplest inference - no point assuming anything more complicated.

Just extremely slanged/typed/drawn out 'let's see', not a chess term >>

Hoo boy Nc3 eh it's coming >>

drake - kas
1. d4 - Nf6
2. f3 - g6
3. e4 - d5
4. Nc3 - e6

Screw the book I don't need chess theory :|

To assuage my guilt about making a moderate length post that has zero game relevance - the issue I flagged with DeTess was more the way DeTess opened. Ready to accept some variance due to the fact the ruleset of this game is different but fundamentally highlights of conversion IMO or something about the way it was done pings/reminds me of E!me in MR62 emphasising that more to try to undermine Village read stability and I'm not sure I like it. Think it'll depend on context. Can probably also say more w.r.t. one other element of DeTess's post but nope. Chill game, screw that crem.

21 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Wait they do? that sequence looks fine to me

He's correct - I noticed the mistranscription of your opening when I did it, which is why I started to simply c/p the notation into my GM PM so Devo can judge me harder and to save it somewhere rather than typing up the notation from scratch each time (as I've been doing.)

You opened d4, I typed e4 at some point.

21 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Honestly I am mostly just giggling uncontrollably that someone else is actually tracking our game

It's Fifth, I'm not really surprised.

What might entertain you more is that for a while, this was a mirror of the game I played as White to Fifth's Black in AG7. You can definitely say it's not that odd, but at the same time, it's interesting that W!me and W!you seem to think similarly, and same for B!Fifth and B!me.

Edited to add:

52 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

(For reference, Drake, Kas, since your records disagree, the move-by-move thus far is 1. d4 Nf6 2. f3 g6 3. e4)

I think TJ and Wiz are putting themselves on my Khriss shortlist but I might need to see more before I jump on that

Uggggh I wanted to avoid saying anything but I failed my Will save.

I'm very surprised you're not remotely considering H!Turtle or K!Turtle. I feel like the 'Archer = Bavadin' theory comes from a Hoid or Khris perspective. The framing of the post made it seem like Turtle was going to change their mind about how to handle Archer if Archer was Bavadin, but why should this matter to a Villager? Reflexively, I think the Village response if you're doubting it is: 'This is a bad argument and you are overreading this' (fair but it doesn't stop me from thinking a perspective slip happened on Archer's part), or 'You're ignoring that Archer could be Frost.' 

The second line of counterargument was something I obviously wasn't interested in mentioning because I don't want to invite too much speculation on a Village power role and it works iff you think it's plausible Archer simply got overwhelmed by too much to do such that he forgot the most basic element of the Researcher's ability (true in a Frost world as that'd be a Lot of Info he'd be receiving.) I also wanted to see if anyone would develop that line in response. But you get what I mean. I feel a Villager is indifferent, strictly speaking, between Bavadin/Hoid/Khris. You can't win with them, so whatever, you know? 

Hoid and Khris do care because they can win with Bavadin!

And this is my usefulness quota for the day. Further things can screw off.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Kasimir

[Ashbringer he/him]

Vote Count:

• Archer (3): Fifth Scholar, DeTess, |TJ|
• Matrim's Dice (1): The Wandering Wizard
• Fifth Scholar (1): Archer

 

Also ties result in no one dying.

[Elandera she/her]

28 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

The conversation is never happening because no one wants to have it. You want to open it in meta? I guarantee you it will die and collapse within a few posts and nothing will come out of it.

Can confirm. If we wanted to have a conversation about it, I opened the door at the end of LG94 with my GM comments. Yet there's a sum total of zero responses. 

But I'm not here to talk about play styles, good, bad, or meh. 

---

"Ruin?! Who would let Ruin out of all the Shards? I don't even need to explain the havoc on Scadrial to show how bad this could be." Telan pushed her hair away from her face, but the obstinate curls refused to cooperate. It wasn't unusual, yet she always tried. Maybe one day it would work. "And what about our research? How are we supposed to study Ruin if they're off galavanting about the Cosmere in who knows what vessel? Research must be done carefully. Methodically. Not in some haphazard "I do what I want" way."

"But you don't even care about Ruin."

Telan waved her freehand dismissively. "I care about all the Shards. Learning as much as we can and not breaking their containment. These other so-called researchers... Sometimes I wonder if they're even actual researchers."

 

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

2 hours ago, The Bald Brandon said:

I believe in you Kas, you won't post a reads list.

But (this isn't a threat) if you legitimately don't put out analysis sometime in the next couple of turns, I'm going to start thinking Ash was cruel enough to make you an elim.

Just noticed this on a reread. This reads… bad to me. I don’t like it. Kas’s activity aligns exactly with his pregame meta — he made it very clear what his activity levels were going to be. TBB, you know better.

Edit: yeah I’m aware that this isn’t necessarily AI but it feels like it’s against the spirit of the game and I don’t like it so hmph

Edited June 7, 2023 by Szeth_Pancakes

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

If it matters, I'm like 94% sure Kas is village

Also my general take is that 1) you do owe it to your faction to try 2) different people aren't going to agree on how much 3) in this game specifically I am fully okay with just chilling

And that's all I have to say really

4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I won't have PC access tomorrow so just gonna not do the images at this point, RIP sorry >>

Yeah basically  And vignere is more or less the simplest inference - no point assuming anything more complicated.

Just extremely slanged/typed/drawn out 'let's see', not a chess term >>

Hoo boy Nc3 eh it's coming >>

drake - kas
1. d4 - Nf6
2. f3 - g6
3. e4 - d5
4. Nc3 - e6

Screw the book I don't need chess theory :|

To assuage my guilt about making a moderate length post that has zero game relevance - the issue I flagged with DeTess was more the way DeTess opened. Ready to accept some variance due to the fact the ruleset of this game is different but fundamentally highlights of conversion IMO or something about the way it was done pings/reminds me of E!me in MR62 emphasising that more to try to undermine Village read stability and I'm not sure I like it. Think it'll depend on context. Can probably also say more w.r.t. one other element of DeTess's post but nope. Chill game, screw that crem.

He's correct - I noticed the mistranscription of your opening when I did it, which is why I started to simply c/p the notation into my GM PM so Devo can judge me harder and to save it somewhere rather than typing up the notation from scratch each time (as I've been doing.)

You opened d4, I typed e4 at some point.

It's Fifth, I'm not really surprised.

What might entertain you more is that for a while, this was a mirror of the game I played as White to Fifth's Black in AG7. You can definitely say it's not that odd, but at the same time, it's interesting that W!me and W!you seem to think similarly, and same for B!Fifth and B!me.

That is amusing

Spoiler

 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, Fifth Scholar said:

(For reference, Drake, Kas, since your records disagree, the move-by-move thus far is 1. d4 Nf6 2. f3 g6 3. e4)

I think TJ and Wiz are putting themselves on my Khriss shortlist but I might need to see more before I jump on that

Siiigh like k I guess this requires me to explain the fundamental plausibility thing:

I think it's pretty common for players to be pretty well-versed in what they can do, as compared to basically other aspects of the rules. If you are a Researcher only (i.e. Villager), basically the only thing you are hopefully doing unless you are me because Evgeny dgaf about Shardic power was siphoning a Shard last Night. Any Shard.

It's quite rare, barring edge cases like Araris the Shade Expert or Illwei the Elantrian, for players to be unaware of their own role abilities, including the limits thereof. Largely because players like roles (in most cases, resisting the urge to make bitter snarky remark here) and have a vested interest in knowing what they can do.

Archer is well aware of this. This is why he consistently publicly asks players who speak a lot about a role if they're that role. That's a fundamental presumption of the same grain as what I'm laying out here.

Is it knock-down? No. But I think it's a fair D1 question to ask why there's no awareness of the most crucial limit to the Researcher's ability: the charge siphon and the fact you can only do so while on Silverlight. And I think a plausible answer is: "Because you're not actually a Researcher, or you have many other things to do/track."

Not saying that this is the full case on Archer (I do have other thoughts I'm not sharing because I'm not invested and interested in playing this game seriously/full-throttle) and I'm not going to bother to summarising DeTess's and TJ's cases. I explain it where it relates to my issue with you not remotely considering Turtle.

Tbf I don't think it matters too much to the Turtle question - if you simply accept that multiple players, including Turtle, think Archer is sus, then the fact that Turtle actively speculates on Bavadin!Archer like it matters and you're not putting them on your Hoid or Khriss suspect list is ???

Edited to add: Like you can flag players like Fae and point out they make mistakes, which, fair, and I'd argue is less rare than our edge cases. But in general I think if you've been around in SE for a while, the odds of you doing that are pretty low.

Edited to add PM:

7 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

If it matters, I'm like 94% sure Kas is village

Also my general take is that 1) you do owe it to your faction to try 2) different people aren't going to agree on how much 3) in this game specifically I am fully okay with just chilling

And that's all I have to say really

That is amusing

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Spoiler

sir what did my cow ever do to u >:(

lol ur just ignoring the notation aren't u >:P

tbh i feel like fifth is just going wtf is this game bros smh >:P

drake - kas
1. d4 - Nf6
2. f3 - g6
3. e4 - d5
4. Nc3 - e6
5. e5 - Nfd7

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Kasimir
Unfortunate spelling

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

This game is terrifying me! Wish I had a good guess about anything ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ 

[STINK he/him]

What I'm getting from this is that to vibe check anyone I apparently need to read some of LG94 huh

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, STINK said:

What I'm getting from this is that to vibe check anyone I apparently need to read some of LG94 huh

TL;DR is that the elims were me, Alpha, Archer, and Aman; Archer and Aman immediately got found and killed leaving an extremely uphill climb for Alpha and I. We won the game, mainly due to a complete village collapse but also aided by multiple bouts of insanely lucky RNG.

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

3 minutes ago, STINK said:

What I'm getting from this is that to vibe check anyone I apparently need to read some of LG94 huh

YOU WILL FEAR ME

Spoiler

Jk mat carried me so hard lol I just had good RNG and stayed quiet 

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by TheAlpha929

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

2 hours ago, Archer said:

You know what they say about assumptions! They're an anagram of 'I, sus pants, am 0'

maybe I misremembered because I thought Ruin was the coinshot. I'm not going to bother looking that up again 

 Mat has zero sense of paranoia despite getting a bunch of joke votes. That's gotta count for something. I believe that red text, even with no weight behind it, does count for something in terms of ability to project impending doom

Care to join me on my Fifth train instead? It's very reasonable and well thought out

They are both coinshots, but Ruin is the Destroyer of Worlds.

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I care, I just happened to be in a position during LG94 where inactivity was beneficial, even if I didn't necessarily feel super good about it. I'm not very good at pushing the issue anyway, though, even though it does irk me, and I think at this point this isn't the conversation for the thread.

At this point I'm used to it. Obviously I felt nothing in regards to joke votes during a night turn, and I saw no indication that they would carry over to today. Dunno what the heck Wiz is doing. I could say that there's a point where it's elim indicative to vote me D1 nonchalantly but I really don't think we've reached that point yet and I see Wiz's vote as a routine poke.

I'll try to read some more of last turn and get some reads, but I don't think I'll be extremely active this game. TKN/TBB is probably my strongest elim read as I didn't like him lumping all the neutrals in one category when imo they're very very different from each other.

Ignoring sudden death, they all win the same way (Autonomous is kinda weird, but still the same). Their strategies are all going to be vaguely similar, kill everyone else. Hoid and Khriss are basically the same sudden death wise, they both want all the shards. Autonomy's sudden death is prerty hard, so they just want to make a bunch of Avatars. Where's the big difference, especially between Hoid and Khriss?

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

[OOC: Gonna turn off Al Speak here for a second, I have spoken/mentioned by frustration about the game personally to Kas, and I do think there are definitely ways to show healthy contribution to village victory even by spending less time on the game making less than 5 posts per cycle IF players care about victory. And I do think even if they feel at times demotivated, they owe it to other other villagers who have put the effort to do so. There is a big difference between DGAF thread energy and minimal but important strong thread contribution.]

If we rely on meta-analysis every time, it just means we're forcing players into playstyles and never really give them a chance to try out something new. Kas is long overdue a chill game imo, and we're good players here, we can figure out if Kas is evil without having to ask Kas to change is playstyle. And besides, if Kas is village, I'm sure he can show it without going all-in on his usual analysis style. 

---

watchya mean?

This \/ post shows exactly why I said that. No matter how chill Kas tries to be, this stuff will still leak out. And this alone is enough to make me pretty confident in Kas'  alignment. 

54 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

  Hide contents

I won't have PC access tomorrow so just gonna not do the images at this point, RIP sorry >>

Yeah basically  And vignere is more or less the simplest inference - no point assuming anything more complicated.

Just extremely slanged/typed/drawn out 'let's see', not a chess term >>

Hoo boy Nc3 eh it's coming >>

drake - kas
1. d4 - Nf6
2. f3 - g6
3. e4 - d5
4. Nc3 - e6

Screw the book I don't need chess theory :|

To assuage my guilt about making a moderate length post that has zero game relevance - the issue I flagged with DeTess was more the way DeTess opened. Ready to accept some variance due to the fact the ruleset of this game is different but fundamentally highlights of conversion IMO or something about the way it was done pings/reminds me of E!me in MR62 emphasising that more to try to undermine Village read stability and I'm not sure I like it. Think it'll depend on context. Can probably also say more w.r.t. one other element of DeTess's post but nope. Chill game, screw that crem.

He's correct - I noticed the mistranscription of your opening when I did it, which is why I started to simply c/p the notation into my GM PM so Devo can judge me harder and to save it somewhere rather than typing up the notation from scratch each time (as I've been doing.)

You opened d4, I typed e4 at some point.

It's Fifth, I'm not really surprised.

What might entertain you more is that for a while, this was a mirror of the game I played as White to Fifth's Black in AG7. You can definitely say it's not that odd, but at the same time, it's interesting that W!me and W!you seem to think similarly, and same for B!Fifth and B!me.

Edited to add:

Uggggh I wanted to avoid saying anything but I failed my Will save.

I'm very surprised you're not remotely considering H!Turtle or K!Turtle. I feel like the 'Archer = Bavadin' theory comes from a Hoid or Khris perspective. The framing of the post made it seem like Turtle was going to change their mind about how to handle Archer if Archer was Bavadin, but why should this matter to a Villager? Reflexively, I think the Village response if you're doubting it is: 'This is a bad argument and you are overreading this' (fair but it doesn't stop me from thinking a perspective slip happened on Archer's part), or 'You're ignoring that Archer could be Frost.' 

The second line of counterargument was something I obviously wasn't interested in mentioning because I don't want to invite too much speculation on a Village power role and it works iff you think it's plausible Archer simply got overwhelmed by too much to do such that he forgot the most basic element of the Researcher's ability (true in a Frost world as that'd be a Lot of Info he'd be receiving.) I also wanted to see if anyone would develop that line in response. But you get what I mean. I feel a Villager is indifferent, strictly speaking, between Bavadin/Hoid/Khris. You can't win with them, so whatever, you know? 

Hoid and Khris do care because they can win with Bavadin!

And this is my usefulness quota for the day. Further things can screw off.

 

31 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Just noticed this on a reread. This reads… bad to me. I don’t like it. Kas’s activity aligns exactly with his pregame meta — he made it very clear what his activity levels were going to be. TBB, you know better.

Edit: yeah I’m aware that this isn’t necessarily AI but it feels like it’s against the spirit of the game and I don’t like it so hmph

As I explicitly said, that wasn't a threat. Kas is gonna do what Kas is gonna do, but I genuinely think Kas is incapable of truly chilling as a villager, and the above post has proved me right.

3 minutes ago, STINK said:

What I'm getting from this is that to vibe check anyone I apparently need to read some of LG94 huh

Yeah, just read Kas' posts until like the last three cycles, then read the entirety of those and stuff will start to make sense.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, The Bald Brandon said:

Ignoring sudden death, they all win the same way (Autonomous is kinda weird, but still the same). Their strategies are all going to be vaguely similar, kill everyone else. Hoid and Khriss are basically the same sudden death wise, they both want all the shards. Autonomy's sudden death is prerty hard, so they just want to make a bunch of Avatars. Where's the big difference, especially between Hoid and Khriss?

I think the difference lies more in that they want to kill each other as much as us. Like I've seen most people treating this as a village/elims game when it's actually a faction game.

But fair enough.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

7 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I think the difference lies more in that they want to kill each other as much as us. Like I've seen most people treating this as a village/elims game when it's actually a faction game.

But fair enough.

See, the thing for me is, to us, the 17th Shard, they are all the same. Sure, there can be some friendly fire, but we want them dead all the same. For them, they should probably just treat themselves as converting elims and everyone else as the village. 

Also, your initial point about me lumping them in together, there was no point in separating them for that particular list. For general play, yes, we should at least remember that they are distinct entities, but for the purpose of that list, which was asking what Shards do they want, they want the same thing and as such can be treated as the same.

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

37 minutes ago, The Bald Brandon said:

See, the thing for me is, to us, the 17th Shard, they are all the same. Sure, there can be some friendly fire, but we want them dead all the same. For them, they should probably just treat themselves as converting elims and everyone else as the village. 

Also, your initial point about me lumping them in together, there was no point in separating them for that particular list. For general play, yes, we should at least remember that they are distinct entities, but for the purpose of that list, which was asking what Shards do they want, they want the same thing and as such can be treated as the same.

I agree. It’s also good to remember, though, that as we get further in the game, the factions become the majority and the alt wincons become more prominent, so treating them as elims become less and less helpful.

Edit: 

Quote

As I explicitly said, that wasn't a threat. Kas is gonna do what Kas is gonna do, but I genuinely think Kas is incapable of truly chilling as a villager, and the above post has proved me right.

See, that’s not what I was saying. This is the kind of meta-analysis that I hate, because it’s forcing people into one style of play. Sure, we can joke about how Kas isn’t “capable” of playing dgaf/doing the method acting thing that he’d committed to before the game, but there’s a difference between that and basing your reads around the fact that Kas isn’t playing like usual.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Szeth_Pancakes

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

48 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

I agree. It’s also good to remember, though, that as we get further in the game, the factions become the majority and the alt wincons become more prominent, so treating them as elims become less and less helpful.

Edit: 

See, that’s not what I was saying. This is the kind of meta-analysis that I hate, because it’s forcing people into one style of play. Sure, we can joke about how Kas isn’t “capable” of playing dgaf/doing the method acting thing that he’d committed to before the game, but there’s a difference between that and basing your reads around the fact that Kas isn’t playing like usual.

True.

Except, it's not. It's like me saying I'm going to post 10,000 words of roleplay a turn. I can try, I might even get close, there's even a chance I complete that goal once or twice. But eventually I'm going to miss that mark.

I have no problem with Kas playing a quiet, roleplayful game, but no matter how much v!Kas commits to chilling, he's going to analyze if he posts enough. I view this less as a playstyle, and more as a village tell. You can change your playstyle, but tells are very difficult to modify.

At this point, whatever Kas does from here on out, I think he's v, because I've seen his tell.