Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, DeTess said:

Alvron knows what he did. And If you take a thorough look at his posts this cycle, you'll know as well, and understand why he needs to be brought to justice, irrespective of his actual alignment. I'll probably swap to Archer at some point, but right now I need to vent my indignation.

Humour me? I did take a look at it, but I'm also recovering from the plague and thinking of asking for a pinch-hitter because I am struggling to carry on. My view is that there's nothing substantive but I've never really expected that from Alv - our constructive V!side cooperations always happened in PMs so I'm not terribly surprised.

I guess I'd put it this way: he's still in nulls for me so I have no objection, though I'm more suspicious of Araris for reasons that have to do with the plausibility of certain actions. But I'm struggling to understand a mindset that goes - I think X is more likely to be Elim than Y, but I'm going to lynch Y for the crime of posting pretty much nothing. I'm here to kill Elims, not Villagers, so things that make a player more likely to be Evil gets my attention.

[---]

23 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Yes. @Illwei IDK I'm not fluent in MU I think you describe him as a power wolf sometimes? When he's less busy with hockey?

terminology is pretty irrelevant and I have not seen Aman wolf recently so I'm probably the least qualified to weigh in on this lol. The idea of what Aman's elim game looks like that lives in my head is that he's trying to control the game but i assume it would change based on teammates and opponents, since I don't know if kas is village if Aman wouldn't try to challenge him for control

my ideas of the words

powerwolfing is that you're the leader of the village- working through/leading the PM tunnels, Posting a lot in thread, analysis-wise, additionally trying to grab people to vote with him against whoever he's trying to push. He'd most likely village read his partners, perhaps very strongly- and encourage others to do so. Powerwolves don't typically like to bus unless neccesary. Archer is the first person I'd think of when i think powerwolf. Depending on the context powerwolfing can be said as one form of openwolfing- being blatantly a wolf and pushing villagers, defending teammates, idk i wanted a third thing but i can't think of anything besides like. "lying" but that's kinda silly to say lol.

Deepwolfing you're not as active in the decisions and you're more focused on being village read. CAN be mostly similar to powerwolves except for the fact that you may not care to keep teammates alive and don't neccesarily try to control the narrative so much as keep it off you (and potentially teammates). Bussing is very common with people who try to get deep (in the village core) because its the easiest way to get cred. If you're not trying/able to control the narrative then there's not going to be anyone most likely speaking up for you when you're voting villagers unless one of your teammates does and somehow gets themselves killed because of it

Edited May 1, 2023 by Illwei

[Kasimir he/him]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

terminology is pretty irrelevant and I have not seen Aman wolf recently so I'm probably the least qualified to weigh in on this lol. The idea of what Aman's elim game looks like that lives in my head is that he's trying to control the game but i assume it would change based on teammates and opponents, since I don't know if kas is village if Aman wouldn't try to challenge him for control

my ideas of the words

powerwolfing is that you're the leader of the village- working through/leading the PM tunnels, Posting a lot in thread, analysis-wise, additionally trying to grab people to vote with him against whoever he's trying to push. He'd most likely village read his partners, perhaps very strongly- and encourage others to do so. Powerwolves don't typically like to bus unless neccesary. Archer is the first person I'd think of when i think powerwolf. Depending on the context powerwolfing can be said as one form of openwolfing- being blatantly a wolf and pushing villagers, defending teammates, idk i wanted a third thing but i can't think of anything besides like. "lying" but that's kinda silly to say lol.

Deepwolfing you're not as active in the decisions and you're more focused on being village read. CAN be mostly similar to powerwolves except for the fact that you may not care to keep teammates alive and don't neccesarily try to control the narrative so much as keep it off you (and potentially teammates). Bussing is very common with people who try to get deep (in the village core) because its the easiest way to get cred. If you're not trying/able to control the narrative then there's not going to be anyone most likely speaking up for you when you're voting villagers unless one of your teammates does and somehow gets themselves killed because of it

Just to confirm,  this is about Archer yeah? Because DeTess was asking about Archer, Aman be dead already

@DeTess

The one thing I will say is E!Archer builds up over time. His goal isn't to be Village leader, it's to be there in late midgame to endgame to take over as control kills paralyse the Village. 

Anyway sidething but yes, sorry, know I'm phoning it in with little analysis/work but I'd overextended C1 trying to bait them to kill me and I never planned on surviving to beyond C3. I just need to rest for a few more hours then I will try something. Can't carry on rn.

[DeTess she/her]

@Kasimir It's about this bit from his analysis post, specifically the profile of Aman Alvron linked to:

Quote

Overall Player Thoughts:
Aman:
Aman - Mat team possible.  Aman knowing about Silver Boned Mat would be willing to leave tie. Likelihood >45%
Aman - Devotary team possible but unlikely. Devotary had no reason to claim roleblock and throw teammate under bus when other reasons for lack of Night Kill easily available  Likelihood <10%
Aman - Mat - Devotary team possible.  Incredibly unlikely but possible. (Magnificent play if true. Deserve to win) Likelihood <5%
Aman - Kas team possible. Obvious collab in thread.  Possible cover.  Likelihood <15%

Only votes on Aman before reveal are Kas and Aman.  No conclusions to draw.
Aman votes on Alv, Alpha, Aman and Mat Day 1
No votes of worth Day 2
Possible distancing Day 1?  (Refer to Profile: Aman for likely odds)

Possible no elims voting on Aman as it would be expected for them to do so?  Smart play not to?

 

[---]

Just now, Kasimir said:

Just to confirm,  this is about Archer yeah? Because DeTess was asking about Archer, Aman be dead already

@DeTess

The one thing I will say is E!Archer builds up over time. His goal isn't to be Village leader, it's to be there in late midgame to endgame to take over as control kills paralyse the Village. 

Anyway sidething but yes, sorry, know I'm phoning it in with little analysis/work but I'd overextended C1 trying to bait them to kill me and I never planned on surviving to beyond C3. I just need to rest for a few more hours then I will try something. Can't carry on rn.

its late i cant read its made scrabble pretty hard recently

You can just take my words and apply them to archer though because its a generality that i think quite a few here are like. If you can't take control immediately then kill those who can and get it there, if that doesn't work bc they assume you'd die next which is therefore the point of powerwolfing in the first case i don't know where i'm going here but my words still apply Archer likes to talk

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, DeTess said:

@Kasimir It's about this bit from his analysis post, specifically the profile of Aman Alvron linked to:

 

Oh that one.

I actually forgot it existed.

Carry on?

[---]

Why is he only theorizing two people there and why are they the least likely to actually be evil

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Why is he only theorizing two people there and why are they the least likely to actually be evil

Omg who

[---]

Just now, Kasimir said:

Omg who

uhm

alv

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Illwei said:

uhm

alv

Ah got it. Three player SB team with additional member is plus ca change no?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Seems to me that one of {Alvron, Archer} is likely to be an elim based on the writeup, and I find Archer to be the more suspicious of the two.

[Tea Leaf]

8 hours ago, Alvron said:

Fae votes for themself (New player nerves?)

Fun and to confuzzle everyone which it did.

Also this is my second game. LG92 was my first one.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

8 minutes ago, The Last Fæ said:

Fun and to confuzzle everyone which it did.

Also this is my second game. LG92 was my first one.

For Alvron, “new player” probably means anyone that’s joined in the last couple of years .

[Tea Leaf]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

For Alvron, “new player” probably means anyone that’s joined in the last couple of years .

Oh...

[Archer he/him]

Welp. That wasn't supposed to happen. I am indeed a Shade Expert and I self protected. Sorry, Sart

1 hour ago, The Last Fæ said:

Fun and to confuzzle everyone which it did.

Also this is my second game. LG92 was my first one.

Why would you want to confuzzle us, Fae? You've been flying under the radar so I have half a mind to just park my vote on you until I see a good reason to do otherwise. Fae

[Tea Leaf]

Just now, Archer said:

Why would you want to confuzzle us, Fae? You've been flying under the radar so I have half a mind to just park my vote on you until I see a good reason to do otherwise. Fae

Entertainment. A little bit of confusion, ya know. Be secretive, be confusing, when they look at you they don't know what they see and they have no reason in the first place. Then again this may be what I wanted all along with this: Fae. But I would advise some wiser, less time wasting move. 

[DeTess she/her]

20 minutes ago, Archer said:

Welp. That wasn't supposed to happen. I am indeed a Shade Expert and I self protected. Sorry, Sart

Who did you protect on night 1?

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Welp. That wasn't supposed to happen. I am indeed a Shade Expert and I self protected. Sorry, Sart

Interesting.

That makes two of us.

42 minutes ago, DeTess said:

Who did you protect on night 1?

I'm a Shade Expert. I still have protection. And I self-protected on Night One. Probably implied by what I was saying earlier, but I want to make this clear.

It's not impossible (?) depending on distro and crossbow numbers (?)

But:

Archer's claim makes two Shade Expert claims and two Silver Bones claims, all ostensibly Village.

Edited to add:

Have to confess that I feel there's a question about why one self-protects when you have - as a Shade Expert - Silver Bones, so a guarantee you would not die anyway, and could protect someone else. Even if he'd claimed to have protected me N1, going for Devo or another clear Village read seems a logical choice.

Edited to add 2:

2 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

For Alvron, “new player” probably means anyone that’s joined in the last couple of years .

Shame on you, being this way to dai-senpai :eyes:

For Alvron, "new player" probably means whippersnappers who joined in LG7 and LG5 like you and me  

Edited May 1, 2023 by Kasimir

[JNV]

@Elandera does silver bones dont trigger broken survivors if attacked apply to attacks that arent survived by silver bones cause like the wording seems to imply it 

Quote

Silver Bones - Players with silver bones won’t go out without a fight. They will survive one sacrifice, shade attack, or execution. Getting attacked will not trigger broken survivors.

Cause like given Devotary roleblocked Amanuensis Kasimir broken survivors makes sense they werent attacked but were saved still but like does silver bones apply generally to all attacks survived by protection too or just to the silver bones extra life

Edited May 1, 2023 by JNV
Trying to get out the weird spoiler box

[|TJ| he/him]

Archer

Sorry, the optimum village mindset here should be to keep Devo and Kas alive as long as possible, which was my thinking when I sent in the order to give Pallid Mask to Kas (the funny part is I was debating between giving it to Kas or Devo, so if I had gone for the latter, Devo would have removed an item that was coming to her). I don't know why any villager would protect any one other than Kas/Devo. 

And I read the Alvron's post quoted by deTess but I don't think I understand what was the suspicious thing that deTess caught...

[Araris Valerian he/him]

5 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Archer

Sorry, the optimum village mindset here should be to keep Devo and Kas alive as long as possible, which was my thinking when I sent in the order to give Pallid Mask to Kas (the funny part is I was debating between giving it to Kas or Devo, so if I had gone for the latter, Devo would have removed an item that was coming to her). I don't know why any villager would protect any one other than Kas/Devo.

That’s kinda what I’m thinking. The only person that would hit Archer last night is a villager with a crossbow, and I’d argue that v!Archer should be fine taking a kill to clear his slot.

Not to mention the distro concerns, I have a hard time seeing all this protection with a 4-elim team. Might explain why Archer proposed a 5-man team during C1.

[Kasimir he/him]

14 minutes ago, JNV said:

@Elandera does silver bones dont trigger broken survivors if attacked apply to attacks that arent survived by silver bones cause like the wording seems to imply it 

It doesn't. That's the clarification I received from @Elandera , because imagine my personal confusion when I'm told:

-You protected yourself successfully. Also, you're now insane.

Me: Whut. Do I know why?

Elan: Nope.

Me: What happens if another SE protected me? 

Elan: I flip for it.

Me: ...So what happens if another SE protected me and that SE's protection deflects an attack, do I go insane?

Elan: I'm going to rule you only stay sane if it triggers Silver Bones. Any interaction with any other layer will still cause Broken Survivors.

Obviously left out in the thread discussion because I was only going to claim when I was dead but Devo happened and things changed.

14 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

I don't know why any villager would protect any one other than Kas/Devo. 

I mean... I sure did...

14 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

And I read the Alvron's post quoted by deTess but I don't think I understand what was the suspicious thing that deTess caught...

It's not suspicious. Merely a crime against humanity.

Edited to add:

8 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

That’s kinda what I’m thinking. The only person that would hit Archer last night is a villager with a crossbow, and I’d argue that v!Archer should be fine taking a kill to clear his slot.

Tbf, if he's SE as well, he has Silver Bones. In a way, you could argue he should be even more okay with it - because he wasn't going to die from a crossbow shot.

Edited to add 2:

Tbh it's even more kayana because why the hell would you want to retaliatory kill a Village vig so you could live. That's the one scenario you should not be protecting against, especially if you haven't burned Silver Bones. The point is that you want to trigger your protect against the NK so that there's a dead Elim or the Elims burn through their protection.

I'll note that was my reasoning behind protecting abroad, by the way. Reasoned the Elims were not likely to go for Devo since she was the consensus protection choice, I couldn't self-protect, and anyway I had an extra life so whatever, so I went elsewhere. Not gonna name the player since again, that's a guaranteed kill.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Kasimir

[Tea Leaf]

Fae Archer

[Kasimir he/him]

Don't let me stop y'all from joining the Archer-da-fé and I for one greatly support it, but - it's not even near Rollovet yet and y'all want to mega-train? Seriously? What we gonna do with half the Day?

[Tea Leaf]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Don't let me stop y'all from joining the Archer-da-fé and I for one greatly support it, but - it's not even near Rollovet yet and y'all want to mega-train? Seriously? What we gonna do with half the Day?

Work?

Start a buisness?

Sell your soul?

Give your soul to me?

Arson?

Other Crime?

Make a crossbow?

Write a book?