Mistborn vs. 3rd ideal Skybreaker.

[Frustration he/him]

Who would win?

[Quantus he/him]

Assumption: Full Mistborn with understanding of 16 base metals but not unlimited atium or it's alloys). 

Misborn 9 times out of 10.  Without access to Plate or Reverse Lashings the Skybreaker has nothing to counter the ranged ballistic attacks of a Coinshot, especially if duralumin-boosted.  The Skybreaker would require luck and ambush tactics to get in a shardblade strike or other significant damage (orbital Bonbardment, etc), and Speed Bubbles plus electrum make that unlikely (but not impossible). So unless the can get lucky, the Mistborn can pour on the damage from a distance until the Skybreaker runs out of healing.  Either could use Aluminum and similar tricks for advantage so that's not going to tip the scales one way over another.  

[Frustration he/him]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Wandering said:

Without access to Plate or Reverse Lashings the Skybreaker has nothing to counter the ranged ballistic attacks of a Coinshot, especially if duralumin-boosted.

They could use division to burn the coin.

[Quantus he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They could use division to burn the coin.

That is assuming Division can be used at range rather than Touch, otherwise they'd need to be able to catch the bullet before they could dissolve it.  That may prove to be the case but I dont think it's likely.  However if we see evidence of Dustbringers being capable of burning arrows mid-flight, then that would certainly change the balance of power.  

[StanLemon]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Wandering said:

That is assuming Division can be used at range rather than Touch, otherwise they'd need to be able to catch the bullet before they could dissolve it.  That may prove to be the case but I dont think it's likely.  However if we see evidence of Dustbringers being capable of burning arrows mid-flight, then that would certainly change the balance of power.  

Hopefully SL5 will shed some light on this, all cases of Division so far in the books have been through touch. 

Personally I'm a big fan of the idea of Skybreakers being able to use Division to shoot lightning, it would give a fun new meaning to their name.

[Frustration he/him]

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Wandering said:

That is assuming Division can be used at range rather than Touch, otherwise they'd need to be able to catch the bullet before they could dissolve it.  That may prove to be the case but I dont think it's likely.  However if we see evidence of Dustbringers being capable of burning arrows mid-flight, then that would certainly change the balance of power.  

Just now, StanLemon said:

Hopefully SL5 will shed some light on this, all cases of Division so far in the books have been through touch. 

Personally I'm a big fan of the idea of Skybreakers being able to use Division to shoot lightning, it would give a fun new meaning to their name.

We've only seen it once, but what we did see it started from the point of contact but extended outward(OB 1002).

So burning them from far away might be hard, but if they keep a small burn around them they should be able to prevent the coin from breaking skin.

[StanLemon]

Just now, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

We've only seen it once, but what we did see it started from the point of contact but extended outward(OB 1002).

Don't we see it twice? Once where Taravangian's Dustbrinnger burns a symbol into wood and once where flames were trailing Amaram's arm movements?

Just now, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

So burning them from far away might be hard, but if they keep a small burn around them they should be able to prevent the coin from breaking skin.

It would have to get really hot to do this, those temperatures sound like they would be damaging the Radiant as well to me

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, StanLemon said:

Don't we see it twice? Once where Taravangian's Dustbrinnger burns a symbol into wood and once where flames were trailing Amaram's arm movements?

I mean, I guess you could count Amaram.

1 minute ago, StanLemon said:

It would have to get really hot to do this, those temperatures sound like they would be damaging the Radiant as well to me

Malata turned stone to dust, but she didn't show any negative effects.

In fact if they could do that from any point they could just cover themselves in a stormlight layer that burned away anything that wasn't them.

[Wits instant noodles he/him]

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Wandering said:

Without access to Plate or Reverse Lashings the Skybreaker has nothing to counter the ranged

or they can just heal from the hits its near impossible to kill a radiant in one hit with what is essentially a bullet.

[Primeival Chaos he/him]

As of right now, I would say 90% in favor of Mistborn. We haven't seen much of the surge of Division, but I can't see the Skybreaker competing with a Mistborn. The Mistborn is just too versatile and can counter much of what the Skybreaker can do

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, Primeval Ookla said:

As of right now, I would say 90% in favor of Mistborn. We haven't seen much of the surge of Division, but I can't see the Skybreaker competing with a Mistborn. The Mistborn is just too versatile and can counter much of what the Skybreaker can do

Versatile?

They might have strictly speaking a greater number of powers, but most of those are useless.

And how do they counter shardblades?

[Wits instant noodles he/him]

they don't strictly have a way to counter a shardblade but they can dodge and using metal on the radiant to push away.

[alder24]

In more than 50% cases, Mistborn wins. Healing is great, but without reverse lashing, Skybreaker would be flying duck for coins to rip through their body constantly from front and back. All Mistborn needs to to is to keep distance and he wins, which would be challenging. If Radiant get dangerously close, Mistborn burns bendalloy and get out of Shardblade's way. Skybreaker would run out of Stormlight eventually. And it takes one touch with chromium, and Skybreaker's Stormlight within him is gone (which could be done with bendalloy). Division won't stop projectiles from distance, especially that they start learning about it after 3rd Ideal, they don't have access to it before.

Did Szeth start learning about Division after all? He was supposed to train Division with Nale after OB, but he was placed in a cell in Urithiru, and I don't remember if there was something about him training with Division.

 

Edit:
If this is happening during night, Mistborn wins 90% of the time.

Edited December 15, 2022 by alder24

[StanLemon]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Versatile?

They might have strictly speaking a greater number of powers, but most of those are useless.

Let's look at the metals that we know give an advantage 

Pewter: stronger, faster, and more agile than a Radiant

Steel/Iron: Pushes and Pulls

Bronze: sensing when the enemy is going to use a Surge

Brass/Zinc: I highly doubt a Radiant without Plate is completely immune, and definitely would be affected by a Duralumin fueled use.

Duralumin: supercharged Allomancy

Chromium: near instant drain of Investiture 

Nicrosil: over charge a Surge, such as a Radiant Lashing which would then leave the Radiant with no Stormlight. Risky? Very, but a possibility 

Bendalloy: time bubble shenanigans 

Electrum: see if an action might harm you

Atium: this has been gone over to death

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And how do they counter shardblades?

Dodge and grab Radiant's wrists then burn Chromium. Overpower Radiant with Pewter while they have no Stormlight and can't resummon their Shardblade 

[Wits instant noodles he/him]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Division won't stop projectiles from distance

i think it was said that a constant low burn could destroy coins on impact.  Also even if they did stay at a distance the skybreaker could just create a shard shield to block coins.

6 minutes ago, alder24 said:

All Mistborn needs to to is to keep distance and he wins

The issue with this is that skybreakers have much more mobility than a mistborn not to mention more speed once they get going were I think it is plausible that a mistborn could dodge for long enough I don't think it would work most of the time I think lashings are just gonna make it real hard for a mistborn to stay clear.

[Frustration he/him]

11 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Nicrosil: over charge a Surge, such as a Radiant Lashing which would then leave the Radiant with no Stormlight. Risky? Very, but a possibility 

Dodge and grab Radiant's wrists then burn Chromium. Overpower Radiant with Pewter while they have no Stormlight and can't resummon their Shardblade 

You can't grab a wrist from seven feet away. And even if you managed to touch a radiant, their division means you lose your hand in that exchange.

[StanLemon]

15 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

You can't grab a wrist from seven feet away. And even if you managed to touch a radiant, their division means you lose your hand in that exchange.

We've seen multiple examples of people getting inside the reach of a Shardblade, not exactly a stretch to think that a Mistborn with Pewter and Steelpushes could. And hard to use Division when a Mistborn is actively draining the Investiture 

[alder24]

12 minutes ago, Wits instant noodles said:

i think it was said that a constant low burn could destroy coins on impact.  Also even if they did stay at a distance the skybreaker could just create a shard shield to block coins.

So what, they gonna burn their clothes away, and fly naked? I don't feel that using Division on everything that touches you seems right. Maybe just on things you focusing on, like a single specific coin, but everything just seems for me a bit wrong? Maybe a higher Ideal Skybreaker could do it, but still that just doesn't fit for me at all. If they can do something like this, why would they use Shardplates at all? Also division might take some time to fully destroy an object, by this time coin would penetrate the body.

Sharshield won't block coins coming from behind.

20 minutes ago, Wits instant noodles said:

The issue with this is that skybreakers have much more mobility than a mistborn not to mention more speed once they get going were I think it is plausible that a mistborn could dodge for long enough I don't think it would work most of the time I think lashings are just gonna make it real hard for a mistborn to stay clear.

Mistborn is more mobile in terms of rapid change of directions, close to the ground, Skybreaker in terms of speed and distance.

19 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

You can't grab a wrist from seven feet away.

He said dodge, that means avoid blade and approach. You can also put a coin on shardblade side and push.

[StanLemon]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

He said dodge, that means avoid blade and approach. You can also put a coin on shardblade side and push.

In all these vs threads I had never thought about this

[Immortal Platypus]

49 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Bronze: sensing when the enemy is going to use a Surge

 

not sensing when they're going to use it. As I understand it they can see if the KR has the stormlight to use said surge.

[StanLemon]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the platypus said:

not sensing when they're going to use it. As I understand it they can see if the KR has the stormlight to use said surge.

Bronze can sense different uses of Investiture. Someone skilled in Bronze can even tell which emotions are being manipulated by Zinc/Brass. While I don't expect a Mistborn to be so good at a magic system they are not wholly familiar with, it's entirely reasonable they can sense the usage of different Surges

Quote

LazarusRises

Can a Seeker burning bronze detect a Surgebinder using Stormlight? Do different Surges have different pulses?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, and yes. Good questions.

General Reddit 2017 (Dec. 13, 2017)

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by StanLemon

[Immortal Platypus]

1 minute ago, StanLemon said:

Bronze can sense different uses of Investiture. Someone skilled in Bronze can even tell which emotions are being manipulated by Zinc/Brass. While I don't expect a Mistborn to be so good at a magic system they are not wholly familiar with, it's entirely reasonable they can sense the usage of different Surges

but that is while they're using it, not directly before. for example, say a skybreaker gets a hand on the mistborn without the mistborn leeching them (remember, this is purely hypothetical) the mistborn won't know to get away because they're about to use Division, they'd have to wait to until the KR starts using the Surge. Unless I'm misunderstanding, that is.

[Wits instant noodles he/him]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

So what, they gonna burn their clothes away, and fly naked

first of all I didn't even think of that but that's hilarious but good point so that probably negates it.

 

5 minutes ago, Ookla the platypus said:

not sensing when they're going to use it. As I understand it they can see if the KR has the stormlight to use said surge.

I hadn't event thought of that but that gives a fairly decent advantage to the radiant

 

31 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Mistborn is more mobile in terms of rapid change of directions, close to the ground, Skybreaker in terms of speed and distance

this is what I was saying by once they get going there faster but also I think a Skybreaker giving chase would be able to keep a Mistborn on there toes.

[StanLemon]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the platypus said:

but that is while they're using it, not directly before. for example, say a skybreaker gets a hand on the mistborn without the mistborn leeching them (remember, this is purely hypothetical) the mistborn won't know to get away because they're about to use Division, they'd have to wait to until the KR starts using the Surge. Unless I'm misunderstanding, that is.

You are correct, let me rephrase what I mean by about to use a Surge. What I meant was that as the Radiant is starting to use the Surge the Mistborn would be able to sense it and react accordingly rather than be fully caught off guard.

[Immortal Platypus]

ok, yeah, I can agree with that.