Mistborn vs. 3rd ideal Skybreaker.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

It's steel, not Edgliium.

It is steel that is as invested as Shardmetal.

[Frustration]

31 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

It is steel that is as invested as Shardmetal.

Source?

[NameIess]

5 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Source?

It acts almost exactly like Shardmetal?

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

It acts almost exactly like Shardmetal?

Raysium doesn't cut like that, so it's not an innate property of shardmetals.

[NameIess]

Just now, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Raysium doesn't cut like that, so it's not an innate property of shardmetals.

It is on the same level of Investiture as a Shardblade.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

It is on the same level of Investiture as a Shardblade.

Enough to become a shardblade, but it is not as invested as a spren shardblade, for the same reasons that Elsecallers are not as invested than a Bondsmith.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Ookla the Frustrated.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Enough to become a shardblade, but it is not as invested as a spren shardblade, for the same reasons that Elsecallers are not as invested than a Bondsmith.

Maybe not, but considering that using spheres of Stormlight would take unreasonable amounts, if awakened Blade is just a tenth as invested as a spren breaths are considerably more invested than spheres. And leeching can drain breaths well.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Maybe not, but considering that using spheres of Stormlight would take unreasonable amounts, if awakened Blade is just a tenth as invested as a spren breaths are considerably more invested than spheres. And leeching can drain breaths well.

Breaths when in a person are inactive, and thus easier to drain.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Breaths when in a person are inactive, and thus easier to drain.

No, they are strongly attached to that person. And Chromium only drains active investiture:

Quote

Questioner

Nicrosil and chromium, do those have any interaction with people using Feruchemy, or other Investiture in general? Leechers or Nicrobursts.

Brandon Sanderson

Could you use those on Feruchemists? You should be able to, yes.

Questioner

Would that only work while they're tapping it?

Brandon Sanderson

If it's active Investiture, probably yes. You'd probably need it to be kinetic Investiture in order for them to do anything about it.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

[Frustration]

57 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

No, they are strongly attached to that person. And Chromium only drains active investiture:

 

Then how do they leech away metals that aren't being burned?

[NameIess]

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Then how do they leech away metals that aren't being burned?

Do they?

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Do they?

Yes,

Spoiler

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/101/#e881

 

 

They can get the earrings, which they wouldn't be burning.

[NameIess]

13 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Yes,

  Reveal hidden contents

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/101/#e881

 

 

They can get the earrings, which they wouldn't be burning.

Why wouldn't they be burning/tapping them?

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Why wouldn't they be burning/tapping them?

Because they have shavings in their stomach. If they burned their earrings then they would fall out, causing the. To lose them. And you can't tap uninvested piercings.

[trav]

13 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Chromium struggles with invested metals, active stormlight will resist further.

Leechers work similar to Nightblood and Larkins. Larkins can suck investiture from Shardplate. I currently see no reason why it should not work. You can not get to the Stormlight gems within the plate or the already absordbed Stormlight. Unless it is fueled constantly from within the plate would disappear of lock up. Living Shardplate may be different, but in this regard I doubt it.

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, trav said:

Larkins can suck investiture from Shardplate.

Which Brandon notes as being almost impossible.

6 hours ago, trav said:

Living Shardplate may be different, but in this regard I doubt it.

Jasnah runs out of light, walks across a field, and has a conversation with Wit, but her armor doesn't lock up.

[NameIess]

13 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Because they have shavings in their stomach. If they burned their earrings then they would fall out, causing the. To lose them. And you can't tap uninvested piercings.

You are not burning all of the metal in your stomach at once, yet leeching still gets rid of all of it.

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

You are not burning all of the metal in your stomach at once, yet leeching still gets rid of all of it.

Another point towards them being able to leech metals you aren't burning.

[NameIess]

18 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Another point towards them being able to leech metals you aren't burning.

Maybe.

to get things back on topic, you claim that because division is an active use of Investiture, leeching cannot affect it. However, leeching can affect active Investiture. The WoB you cited gives a rationalization for why Szeth and Kaladin can’t suck Stormlight from Shardplate. Radiants are strongly blocked by active Investiture. However, leeches are not. They can leech Stormlight from Radiants, which no Radiant can do. Therefore, you cannot say that leechers would be unable to leech Stormlight from Division, as they are obviously able to overcome many of the barriers that normally prevent the draining of Investiture.

[trav]

18 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Which Brandon notes as being almost impossible.

Brandon said that its almost equally hard to get to the Investiture shielded by Shardplate or Aluminium. A Radiant can not suck the Stormlight out of a bag of gems that is inside the Shardplate (or shielded by Aluminium).

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/182-stormlight-three-update-5/#e3864

A Larkin can suck Investiture from plate. As stated in thw WoB. Same as Nightblood and Leechers.

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, trav said:

Brandon said that its almost equally hard to get to the Investiture shielded by Shardplate or Aluminium. A Radiant can not suck the Stormlight out of a bag of gems that is inside the Shardplate (or shielded by Aluminium).

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/182-stormlight-three-update-5/#e3864

A Larkin can suck Investiture from plate. As stated in thw WoB. Same as Nightblood and Leechers.

That's one WoB mentioning it, but he doesn't mention the difficulty, just that it's possible

Here's two saying it's much harder to drain active investiture.

Spoiler

ProfessorWC

Could a Surgebinder shut down Shardplate by cracking a piece and then consuming the Stormlight from the internal gems?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, though getting the Stormlight out of those gems while they're already powering something is not easy.

General Twitter 2015 (March 12, 2015)

Starfishpr1me

Why do Szeth and Kaladin not suck all the stormlight out of the gems that power shardplate when they fight people wearing plate, thus rendering the plate useless? Is there something different about the gems that power plate that would make this impossible?

Brandon Sanderson

So, in the magic of Stormlight (and across several of my books) there's are some underlying principles. One is that the power of the magic (which we call investiture) is difficult to manipulate when it is claimed by someone, or something, else.

You can imagine that magic in the process of being used, like the energy powering plate, works like a kind of negative charge to your own magic. Trying to lash someone in Plate will be very difficult, as the stormlight in the plate is going to resist your attempts to push through it and get at the person. Likewise, that power in the plate is actively being used--draining it is difficult.

If you can rip off a piece of the plate, disconnecting it from the system, then you can get at those gemstones and drain them much more easily. But tucked away inside, they're both shielded and being actively used by the armor. They would be virtually impossible to drain.

Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 28, 2016)

 

[rabidhexley]

A highly skilled Mistborn with all the metals (and reserves) is incredibly tough if they know what they're up against. There's a reason we don't see Mistborn in Era 2, Brandon knows they're ridiculous.

Radiants are ridiculous too, but Mistborn have access to Leaching, Duralumin, and time hacks. These are basically what make the Mistborn a true threat when combined with their other abilities.

Obviously a favorable scenario needs to work out for the Mistborn, and we're talking about a pretty high level of skill, but definitely possible even with Plate, and a potential stomp without plate. The Mistborn would have a much tougher time of it without Bendalloy and Duralumin.

Bendalloy to constantly change position at range would make it very tough for a Radiant with no instant ranged abilities to actually setup a kill or even get close. I really don't see how a purely melee Radiant could even attempt to kill a Mistborn with ample reserves who doesn't want to get caught. It's only fair at all because the Mistborn is trying to kill the Radiant too, but time bubbles give them a lot of flexibility to set things up.

Duralumin pushes and time bubbles to setup attacks provide offensive power to incapacitate Radiants or even bust Shardplate.

Problem for the Mistborn is Radiant healing and the Shardblade one-shots, as well as other potential Radiant one-shots in close range. Any instant, ranged one-shots means the Mistborn is probably boned if they don't catch the Radiant off-guard and finish it very quickly.

Problem for the Radiant is the Mistborn has time hacks and flexibility of range, and can theoretically purge their healing ability in the same moment they kill them. For a Radiant with no plate (or compromised plate) they become vulnerable to anything that exposes them, and Mistborn have multiple means of achieving this.

As far as leeching goes, I'm of the mind that would think if the Mistborn is leeching as they make contact, they wouldn't be effected by Division on that touch. Even if Leeching isn't instant, I think the purging of investiture would take precedent over investiture acting upon them, worst-case I think they'd cancel out as the Stormlight rapidly drains. The other way of looking at it would be saying "Can you apply Division to a surface that is actively purging foreign investiture?", I'd think that'd be even more difficult than using it on something like Shardplate.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

That's one WoB mentioning it, but he doesn't mention the difficulty, just that it's possible

Here's two saying it's much harder to drain active investiture.

The problem is, this WoB is only talking about lashing and using other Radiant abilities on something/someone invested like lashing shardplate, or Radiant breathing in light from shardplate. It's not the same as leeching. If it was the same for leeching, than leeching misting that activity burns iron would be very hard - however this is not the case. Nale's larkin also didn't have any trouble leeching Lift's light as she was Awesome at that moment. So leeching is clearly an exception. Leeching is able to stop summoning the Shardblade.

I would say that if Skybreaker would use division on Mistborn that is touching him, that investiture pushed into division might be the first to be leech off.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

The problem is, this WoB is only talking about lashing and using other Radiant abilities on something/someone invested like lashing shardplate, or Radiant breathing in light from shardplate. It's not the same as leeching. If it was the same for leeching, than leeching misting that activity burns iron would be very hard - however this is not the case. Nale's larkin also didn't have any trouble leeching Lift's light as she was Awesome at that moment. So leeching is clearly an exception. Leeching is able to stop summoning the Shardblade.

I would say that if Skybreaker would use division on Mistborn that is touching him, that investiture pushed into division might be the first to be leech off.

Leeching invested metal is harder to leech than univested metal.

Spoiler

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/101/#e881

 

 

And Stormlight is FAR more invested than standard flakes. Add in the fact that it's active, and I fully expect division to continue working.

[trav]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

That's one WoB mentioning it, but he doesn't mention the difficulty, just that it's possible

Here's two saying it's much harder to drain active investiture.

I already read the 2nd WoB you posted. Brandon talks about getting Stormlight from the gems. Hes not talking about getting it from the Shardplate. Radiants lack the ability to do that.

In the WoB I posted he specifically says that Aluminium is preferred to protect Stormlight from getting sucked out of gems since the Shardplate itself would be vulnerable to getting leeched which would, by remote, cause the gems to drain.

It is difficult to get the Stormlight from gems within Shardplate or Aluminium.

It is difficult to get the Stormlight from gems while they power something. In this case, constantly fueling a Sharplate.

It is not difficult to get the Stormlight from the Shardplate itself. If you want to keep the Shardplate supplied with Stormlight you need to empty the reserves you have, which would be the gems.