Long Game 91: A Fresh Start in Shinovar

[Amanuensis he/him]

20 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

So Turtle, Chantara. I don't see any world where Chantara is village.

Chantara Voting now for the sake of closer votes pushing elims into action, but would love to hear the details. What did Chantara do?

ED1T:

1 minute ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

Chantara

First I got ninja'd while making a vote count by Ash, now you >:)

ED2T:

(3) Chantara: Araris, Silhouette, Aman
(2) Turtle: Elkanah, JNV
(2) Silhouette: Archer, Elkanah, 
(1) JNV: Tani,

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ookla the Remembered

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I guess I should say something about this; I know via a PM with Kas (yeah, I had the third one and know a whole bunch of other stuff) that Chantara got Illwei's blade, and also is in the 5-person group of living players that didn't start with a blade. Presumably 3/5 elims didn't start with a blade, so Bob's your uncle and Chantara's elim.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Araris Valerian

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

I guess I should say something about this; I know via a PM with Kas (yeah, I had the third one and know a whole bunch of other stuff) that Chantara got Illwei's blade, and also is in the 4-person group of living players that didn't start with a blade. Presumably 3/5 elims didn't start with a blade, so Bob's your uncle and Chantara's elim.

Who are the other living players that didn't start with one? I apparently started with Kalak's but lost it a while ago, dunno if that's already known but here you go if not. I actually know nothing about the mechanics of this game (particularly how blades move from player to player). Is understanding that essential to the Chantara case?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

5 minutes ago, Ookla the Remembered said:

Who are the other living players that didn't start with one? I apparently started with Kalak's but lost it a while ago, dunno if that's already known but here you go if not. I actually know nothing about the mechanics of this game (particularly how blades move from player to player). Is understanding that essential to the Chantara case?

Shining, Chantara, Elkanah, and one other person that I read as village and don't really want to name to avoid helping the elims figure everything out.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Araris Valerian

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Shining, Chantara, Elkanah, and one other person that I read as village and don't really want to name to avoid helping the elims figure everything out.

 I've been outed

Yeah I've been bladeless this whole game

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ookla the Debonair
spelling

[Araris Valerian he/him]

The big thing is that the elims can take a blade from someone they kill. Doing so is a bit risky because the Shaman (Alv) knew who all the blade holders were, and blades go to a random player if the elims don't nab it.

Also I forgot Turtle from my list of players that started with no blade.

[Amanuensis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

 I've been outed

Yeah I've been bladeless this whole game

Oops. Sorry if I accidently encouraged something to be revealed that shouldn't. I'm just trying to make sense of this

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

The big thing is that the elims can take a blade from someone they kill. Doing so is a bit risky because the Shaman (Alv) knew who all the blade holders were, and blades go to a random player if the elims don't nab it.

Also I forgot Turtle from my list of players that started with no blade.

Ok neat. Also not neat, given Alv is no longer alive and all  I'm guessing there's no other way to figure out who gets the blades now?

More importantly, was there anyone who tried to keep Stick alive, either directly or by proposing/supporting an opposing exe?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Remembered said:

More importantly, was there anyone who tried to keep Stick alive, either directly or by proposing/supporting an opposing exe?

Yeah, that would be JNV. And Shining had some weird interactions. D3 was pretty short, I'd suggest you give it a read if you have the chance.

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Remembered said:

Oops. Sorry if I accidently encouraged something to be revealed that shouldn't. I'm just trying to make sense of this

Yeah I actually don't really care, I was being facetious

Edit:

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Yeah, that would be JNV. And Shining had some weird interactions.

Did I have any actual interactions though? Was it just my reads?

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ookla the Debonair

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Debonair said:

Was it just my reads?

Reads are interactions, so yes to both.

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

Reads are interactions, so yes to both.

The more you know.

Edit: HYPOTHETICAL :eyes: E!Shining is a lousy teammate fwiw

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ookla the Debonair

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Debonair said:

E!Shining is a lousy teammate fwiw

Well, someone had to let Stick die to me having no reasons and Kas waffling...

[Amanuensis he/him]

35 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Yeah, that would be JNV. And Shining had some weird interactions. D3 was pretty short, I'd suggest you give it a read if you have the chance.

Hm ok. I'll try to backread before the end of the turn (am currently procrastinating an assignment due at midnight).

For now I'm going to stop refreshing this page every time someone posts and actually read page 1 lol

 

ED1T:

Okay so page 1 answered a lot of my questions (TY Archer). This is my best approximation for a tier list atm.

V: Archer, Araris, Elkanah
N+: Tani, JNV, 
N: Insanity, Silhouette
N-: Turtle, Chantara

Think it's best to clear the N- tier first and scale up. Yay smol PoEs

 

ED2T:

(3) Chantara: Araris, Silhouette, Aman
(2) Turtle: Elkanah, JNV
(2) Silhouette: Archer, Elkanah, 
(1) JNV: Tani,

@Araris Valerian Just to confirm, the main argument for Chantara is getting Illwei's blade after she was NK'd, yeah? Were there other red flags with their posting? I saw something about a Stick troll vote, so not sure how that factors in yet. Will read D3 after I get something to eat.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ookla the Remembered

[Archer he/him]

5 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure that this means JNV tried to scan someone that was protected by Illumination. Which, despite my attempt to avoid smoker fear in the last LG, seems like a potential indicator of elim-ness

Can someone please claim this. 

3 hours ago, InfiniteInsanity said:

...Day 4 when I was saying that I was trusting that Kas' village reads on y'all were right or at least close. I wasn't trying to say that Kas had been suspicious of Cash. Kas was trusting y'all for going after Stick. I was saying that I was going to trust y'all's read on Cash because everyone seemed to have the same thinking especially the people Kas had decided to trust. Which I realize was obviously a mistake.

Are you talking about specifically Sillho's vote on Turtle or everyone's?

Confirmed village isn't confirmed right, so it's an interesting approach.

Silh and JNV's confused me

3 hours ago, Elkanah said:

I'm expecting an end of day hammer. I will make sure I am on to try and counter, but we should do what we can to sure up a lynch on a good target before then. 

how about we not leave it until 2am my time to decide :D.

2 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

What is your take on Shining aggressively voting for Stick during D3? Do you think there was doc miscommunication that led to the rapid change of tactics? 

Well it wasn't aggressive was it. It was with four hours to go, which could be the point where the elims had given up and started bussing (remember, timezones mean the functional EoD is sooner than real EoD). It's a question of does Shining's progression make sense? Do we trust that elims fought longer - as hopefully evidenced by JNV's vote? 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

Tbf in all honesty I did go right to sleep right after my Stick vote. I didn't even see Kas's "don't sheep" post.

Put another way, gone to sleep because the bus had begun? Or because you aren't e-e with Stick? I'm 100% sure there's one elim in Shining and JNV and I can't tell which it is. If it's as simple as they're both evil I will scream. 

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

their antagonism this cycle

So Turtle, Chantara. I don't see any world where Chantara is village.

Is this because I haven't called you scary recently >.>

Unless the 4th is Xino. I'm not a fan of digging deep into the pile when there's theoretically more catchable elims left

59 minutes ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

So if V!Shining, who has to be on the elim team?

JNV, Turtle, Chantara. That's Team Too Little Too Late, so your D3 elims did nothing useful. Which is believable. 

57 minutes ago, Ookla the Remembered said:

I was following along early game and caught Stick myself

Welcome! No village cred for doing it before you got an alignment :P.

37 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I guess I should say something about this; I know via a PM with Kas (yeah, I had the third one and know a whole bunch of other stuff) that Chantara got Illwei's blade, and also is in the 5-person group of living players that didn't start with a blade. Presumably 3/5 elims didn't start with a blade, so Bob's your uncle and Chantara's elim.

At this point any competent elim team has caught on that you're the Coinshot/PMer guy and I'd really like confirmation of that so I can vote Turtle without thinking it's e!Araris e!Shining and v!JNV, v!Chantara. If you tell us and we get this flip right, you have a good shot with the Coinshot to bring it down to one elim who can only either NK or Coinshot anyway if they steal your blade. Also, vanilla!Araris was probably going to be the kill target anyway

If Araris dispels my paranoia I can chalk the rest of the Turtle votes up to bussing and vote there. If someone villagey says they blocked JNV, I can vote there. I don't think I can be happy with myself if I end up on Shining while holding JNV suspicions. I refuse to look at Chantara for what looks like PoE reasons. 

JNV probably

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Paragrapher said:

Do we trust that elims fought longer - as hopefully evidenced by JNV's vote? 

I'd like to make the point that E!Me is a fighter—actually I consider myself a fighter no matter my alignment (see MR61)—and that if there was a possibility to save my teammate I would have taken it or at least been present in case such a chance arose.

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Paragrapher said:

I refuse to look at Chantara for what looks like PoE reasons. 

Which reasons?

[Amanuensis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Paragrapher said:

Welcome! No village cred for doing it before you got an alignment :P.

Fair

(3) Chantara: Araris, Silhouette, Aman
(2) Turtle: Elkanah, JNV
(2) JNV: Tani, Archer,
(1) Silhouette: Elkanah, 

@InfiniteInsanity @ookla the POKE VOTE I believe you two are the only ones who need to vote.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

29 minutes ago, Ookla the Paragrapher said:

At this point any competent elim team has caught on that you're the Coinshot/PMer guy and I'd really like confirmation of that so I can vote Turtle without thinking it's e!Araris e!Shining and v!JNV, v!Chantara. If you tell us and we get this flip right, you have a good shot with the Coinshot to bring it down to one elim who can only either NK or Coinshot anyway if they steal your blade. Also, vanilla!Araris was probably going to be the kill target anyway

I'm living in a world with 5 total elims. Which means that there will be minimum of 2 left after today. Also, I'm pretty sure they have a protect blade. So I think we don't want Chana to claim still, and I'm doing my best to avoid dumping so much info that it becomes obvious to the elims who they are.

Edit: Not to mention that they get Kalak for the Night as well.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Araris Valerian

[Chantara she/her]

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

I guess I should say something about this; I know via a PM with Kas (yeah, I had the third one and know a whole bunch of other stuff) that Chantara got Illwei's blade, and also is in the 5-person group of living players that didn't start with a blade. Presumably 3/5 elims didn't start with a blade, so Bob's your uncle and Chantara's elim.

Wait… so all you have is that I got Illwei’s blade? I was expecting something more… substantial. Blades are randomly distributed if not claimed by the killer. 

Let me help you with some reasons: 

1. I’ve been fairly inactive. I did mention I got really sick, but with the inactive elim theory going around this is a pretty good indicator. 
2. I didn’t have a blade, aand then I got Illwei’s. It is possible I killed Illwei and claimed her blade, but it’s also possible I got assigned it when the killer didn’t claim it. 
3. Stick voted for me last second, to which I responded by making sure they were exed, even if there was a vote manip. Could be distancing, but even elk said it couldn’t really be alignment indicative because it’s too much of an ikyk, nevertheless, it could still be distancing between two elims. 
4. JNV says they were roleblocked when they tried to scan me. I could have used Illwei’s blade to do that, protecting myself and a teammate.
 

Anyway, I’m very interested in Turtle. I’ve been watching them for a couple cycles and I was trying to decide if I should vote for them or JNV. JNV is reading a little more villagery to me atm because of their blade claim. Turtle on the other hand still has yet to say something that makes me less suspicious of them. Everyone is guilty until proven innocent in this game   
 

Turtle

[Amanuensis he/him]

40 minutes ago, Ookla the Remembered said:

Fair

(3) Chantara: Araris, Silhouette, Aman
(2) Turtle: Elkanah, JNV
(2) JNV: Tani, Archer,
(1) Silhouette: Elkanah, 

@InfiniteInsanity @ookla the POKE VOTE I believe you two are the only ones who need to vote.

I was so confused trying to figure out how 3 people hadn't voted but there were 8 votes here lol. Turns out I counted two of Elk's votes >>

This one should finally be correct.

(3) Chantara: Araris, Silhouette, Aman
(2) Turtle: JNV, Chantara, 
(2) JNV: Tani, Archer,
(1) Silhouette: Elkanah, 

ED1T:

Hrm. Gonna have to ISO Chantara. Very comfortable with my vote atm

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ookla the Remembered

[Araris Valerian he/him]

4 minutes ago, Chantara said:

Anyway, I’m very interested in Turtle. I’ve been watching them for a couple cycles and I was trying to decide if I should vote for them or JNV. JNV is reading a little more villagery to me atm because of their blade claim. Turtle on the other hand still has yet to say something that makes me less suspicious of them. Everyone is guilty until proven innocent in this game   
 

Turtle

On D4 Turtle made a play to save JNV. So if one of them is elim, they probably both are.

[JNV]

Ok so if Chantara has Pailiah this changes everything cause I scanned Chantara and got back action fail and I kinda assumed roleblock but thats not actually a great assumption cause Kalak was off the table and Cash had Battar so random odds has it so if Chantara has Pailiah thats a bit more watch sort of thing and like Stick had Shalash but also random but if Chantara has Pailiah and definitely has Pailiah and is using it to block things instead of protecting people like thats eyes sort of behavior thats not great and like heres the thing right heres the thing yeah they could have gotten it from random but like its strictly better to take it and force the shaman to get it cause it locks it down for a long time 

4 minutes ago, Chantara said:

2. I didn’t have a blade, aand then I got Illwei’s. It is possible I killed Illwei and claimed her blade, but it’s also possible I got assigned it when the killer didn’t claim it. 

Which turn did you get the blade the day after Illwei died or a night a bit or so after basically Im asking if you got randomed it or got Shaman tossed it

For now like tentatively for now Chantara Ill try rereading a bit and get back with more thoughts

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 minutes ago, JNV said:

Ok so if Chantara has Pailiah this changes everything cause I scanned Chantara and got back action fail and I kinda assumed roleblock but thats not actually a great assumption cause Kalak was off the table and Cash had Battar so random odds has it so if Chantara has Pailiah thats a bit more watch sort of thing and like Stick had Shalash but also random but if Chantara has Pailiah and definitely has Pailiah and is using it to block things instead of protecting people like thats eyes sort of behavior thats not great and like heres the thing right heres the thing yeah they could have gotten it from random but like its strictly better to take it and force the shaman to get it cause it locks it down for a long time 

Which turn did you get the blade the day after Illwei died or a night a bit or so after basically Im asking if you got randomed it or got Shaman tossed it

For now like tentatively for now Chantara Ill try rereading a bit and get back with more thoughts

Hi JNV Hope you've been well!

Barring an e!you world lying about this, feels like an open/shut case on Chantara.

ED1T:

(4) Chantara: Araris, Silhouette, Aman, JNV, 
(2) JNV: Tani, Archer,
(1) Turtle: Chantara, 
(1) Silhouette: Elkanah, 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ookla the Remembered

[Chantara she/her]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

On D4 Turtle made a play to save JNV. So if one of them is elim, they probably both are.

That is…. Fair. I’d forgotten about that being part of the reason I’d suspected Turtle. I can’t vote both of them this turn. 
 

3 minutes ago, JNV said:

Which turn did you get the blade the day after Illwei died or a night a bit or so after basically Im asking if you got randomed it or got Shaman tossed it

Night turn after Illwei died. I assumed it was random. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

Got ninja'd so putting this edit in a new post

ED2T:

Okay so idk if an ISO is even necessary.

15 minutes ago, Chantara said:

Wait… so all you have is that I got Illwei’s blade? I was expecting something more… substantial. Blades are randomly distributed if not claimed by the killer. 

Let me help you with some reasons: 

1. I’ve been fairly inactive. I did mention I got really sick, but with the inactive elim theory going around this is a pretty good indicator. 
2. I didn’t have a blade, aand then I got Illwei’s. It is possible I killed Illwei and claimed her blade, but it’s also possible I got assigned it when the killer didn’t claim it. 
3. Stick voted for me last second, to which I responded by making sure they were exed, even if there was a vote manip. Could be distancing, but even elk said it couldn’t really be alignment indicative because it’s too much of an ikyk, nevertheless, it could still be distancing between two elims. 
4. JNV says they were roleblocked when they tried to scan me. I could have used Illwei’s blade to do that, protecting myself and a teammate.
 

Anyway, I’m very interested in Turtle. I’ve been watching them for a couple cycles and I was trying to decide if I should vote for them or JNV. JNV is reading a little more villagery to me atm because of their blade claim. Turtle on the other hand still has yet to say something that makes me less suspicious of them. Everyone is guilty until proven innocent in this game   
 

Turtle

First off, nice to meet you! Sorry it's not under better circumstances.

Second off, this post kinda feels fabricated to me? Anyone else getting that vibe? Basically, I would expect a Villager to not say "It's possible I killed Illwei and claimed her blade, but it's also possible I got assigned it when the killer didn't claim it" and instead outright claim "RNGesus gave it to me, don't know what else to say." Why beat around the bush?

Third off, why would a villager use Illumination over Progression last night? Why didn't you try to protect your top village read?

[Chantara she/her]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Remembered said:

First off, nice to meet you! Sorry it's not under better circumstances.

Second off, this post kinda feels fabricated to me? Anyone else getting that vibe? Basically, I would expect a Villager to not say "It's possible I killed Illwei and claimed her blade, but it's also possible I got assigned it when the killer didn't claim it" and instead outright claim "RNGesus gave it to me, don't know what else to say." Why beat around the bush?

Third off, why would a villager use Illumination over Progression last night? Why didn't you try to protect your top village read?

Nice to meet you too! 
 

I was trying to look at it from an outside perspective as if I was just reading my own alignment from another player POV. 
 

tbh last night was the first night I used the blade. I wasn’t sure how it worked per se, and who’s to say I didn’t protect my top village read. I didn’t say anything about who else I protected. Just that I definitely shielded myself. It also just sounded more efficient to protect 2 people from potential scans than one person from getting killed when my chances of hitting the right person were extremely slim.