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  1. 40 points
    I’m going to be contrary and push back against the idea that “Shallan” is a persona in the same way that Veil and Radiant are. Before OB, where Shallan starts having her current problems with disassociation, we see her already asserting that her current self is “lie” because she believes she should instead be the broken and utterly despondent image she shows Pattern. The thing is, I think this is her being an unreliable narrator: Shallan thinks it’s impossible that she can be the not-broken, sassy person we see her as in most of her POVs. But this is not necessarily true. Granted, she undergoes changes (dare I say, character development) through WoK to WoR, but there’s a consistent through line with her character arc and her personality. But because she believes that she is fundamentally broken, she attributes her newfound self-confidence and competence to just another layer of lies. At this point, this seemed pretty clearly to just be part of her pathological inability to see herself in a positive light. This reaches critical mass in Oathbringer, where, because she assumes that “Shallan” is broken and incompetent, she developed alternate personas, each of whom are allowed to be competent and functional in their spheres. In my arm-chair opinion, the only reason Veil and Radiant exist is because Shallan will not acknowledge to herself that she is capable of everything that her personas are. And while Investiture certainly complicates this assessment; I don’t think her personas have external validity other than as an expression of Shallan’s pathology. It’s all Shallan; just an extreme form of psychological dissociation reinforced by her surgebinding. Some people seem to be taking Shallan’s word for everything when it comes to her personas. The thing is, we can say with absolute certainty that she is far from a reliable narrator. In particular, we know that she considered “Shallan” to be fake long before the personas developed. Until Oathbringer, we had no reason to assume that her personality was literally a magical construct with ontological distinctness from whoever she originally was, which is what some are treating Veil and Radiant as. As I’ve alluded to previously, I don’t think the key to her character development is going to be based on remembering more dark buried secrets that reveal what a horrible person she is. Though there very well could be more dark terrible things in her past that we haven’t discovered yet, she already thinks of herself as a monster without having remembered them. Her development isn’t going to be based around her somehow being worse than she already thinks (she already assumes the worst about herself). Her entire arc up till this point is based around her inability let herself move past the things she’s done (Radiant was created as an almost direct consequence of her being unable to face having killed her mother). The personas aren’t the solution, they are just another way of her dodging her need to let herself be herself. Dalinar’s whole arc in Oathbringer was about taking responsibility for who he used to be, while still moving forward. Shallan doesn’t need to accept that “Shallan” is just a lie and find who she really is; she needs to accept that she is Shallan, flaws and all, but, more importantly, that she is worth fixing. The lie that she has to overcome is that she is not worthy of redemption. And oops I’ve written an essay instead of a forum post. Feel free to disagree, but I’m going to go find some food. Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying that it's "all in her head" or that she should just "get over it". I'm saying she suffers severe emotional trauma and what constitutes a psychiatric disorder, which should be handled with all the steadfastness and empathy such things warrant.
  2. 33 points
    Oh I see what u did there.
  3. 32 points
    Moash was definitely trying to convince Kaladin to kill himself. First, he references the time in WoK when Kaladin nearly did decide to kill himself. He says that Kaladin had the right idea at that time. He then says that the only way for Kaladin to stop hurting is for him to stop existing. He then tries to force Kaladin to say out loud that he agrees with Moash that the only way is to go back to the cliff and jump. Moash says that he found a better way for himself - surrendering to Odium. But he says the only way for Kaladin is suicide. Having been close to someone that was suicidal as I'm sure many of us have, this is exactly the way they think. It's dangerous to even talk like this, to reinforce those kinds of thoughts in their heads. These ideas are wrong. But they can't see it, they can't think about anything else or put their life in perspective because they are in a bad place. So if anyone struggling is reading this, my message to you is remember who is saying these things in the book - an evil villain. A person who lies, who doesn't have your best interest in mind. Who has lost the ability to see the good, not by damage but by choice. Remember that things aren't as bad as they seem, that it's not all bad and that even if things are bad now, things can and will be good again. Break the cycle of bad thoughts in your mind. Remember the good times, remember that you have choice in your life to remove the bad. And seek help from a loved one and/or a professional.
  4. 30 points
    haha wherein the Windrunners discover lift and dismiss it as an inconvenience to their gravity negating powers.
  5. 30 points
  6. 29 points
    As amusing as Kaladin being ambassador to the Azish would be, I think there's an assignment that plays directly into his arc, and in fact he is probably the best equipped of any character for: ... Ambassador to the Singers.
  7. 29 points
    Reading Chapter 8 made me wonder why Kaladin suddenly seemed to react so strongly to what Moash was saying and I think there's a factor outside his depression. I think it's significantly linked to him running out of Stormlight just at that moment. Ever since the beginning Kaladin described the intense feeling of taking in Stormlight, and I think he's been self-medicating his depression by using Stormlight excessively. The feeling of that takes his negative thoughts away and so he's now become accustomed to having it when he's in stressful situations (i.e. fights). I think his reaction to Moash makes a lot more sense when looking at it as Kaladin having a 'come-down' from this 'drug' as he's now not used to dealing with these thoughts on his own anymore, which is why Moash's words affect him so much in this more vulnerable state. Edit: This might be a precursor to Stormlight Savantism where you struggle to function normally without it? Edit 2: Upon rereading the chapter, there's a marked difference between Kaladin's attitude to Moash before vs after he's run out of Stormlight. Compare the last thing he says to Moash before he runs out of Stormlight to the first thing he says after
  8. 29 points
    Perhaps less of a meme, and more of a joke:
  9. 28 points
    This chapter forced a (for me) new idea of the fourth ideal into my mind: "I will protect myself - so I can continue to protect others" And now...back to work.
  10. 28 points
  11. 26 points
    Name drops, time passes agonisingly slowly, information lacking, information slowing agony, passing time dropping names
  12. 26 points
    For some reason, brain went directly to the spheres Lirin stole from Wistiow when I read the description of Renarin's light as diamond-like. Just spent a while flipping through Way of Kings to find this. Chapter 31 Kaladin flashback: (the townfolk confront Lirin asking for Wistiow's spheres) Note: the goblet is full of diamond broams. And from today's chapter: While there's a few parallels in how the light is described in these scenes, what I find most interesting is the contrast between the cold light of Lirin and the warm light of Renarin. I think this is at least partially intentional, especially since they both take place in Hearthstone. Brandon is making a literary comparison between how Lirin and Renarin ward away Kaladin's fears. Lirin's light is the cold confidence of the surgeon. He sees the truth with brutal objectivity, and it is his voice that tells Kaladin "Move on to someone you can help, his father seemed to say. This one is dead." There's nothing wrong with this worldview, but it's not what Kaladin needs. He's been hearing these words his whole life, but he's never been able to accept things the way that Lirin does. And that is because of how cold Lirin is, bordering on dispassionate—something that the parshwoman running Hearthstone notes as well. Lirin's cool composure is a turn-off for Kaladin, who sees his philosophy as uncaring. Lirin's light shines on the people of Hearthstone and makes them look foolish. It scolds them. What Kaladin needs is warmth and comfort. Where Lirin would chastise Kaladin for failing to "let go" and move on from failure, Kaladin needs somebody to hug him and tell him that it's okay to mess up. Renarin's light shines on Moash and Kaladin and reveals their stronger selves. It uplifts them.
  13. 23 points
    Right, on the subject of crediting memes and avoiding posting duplicates - while also not expecting people to reading 170+ pages before sharing a thing, I will say (mostly unofficially; this is coming from me, I don't know how many of the other mods or admins agree): If you made it, you can post it If you found it, at least link to where you found it. You don't need to go on a reverse image search quest, but a lot of the images you find on Google will come from either Reddit, or this thread; either way, it's easy to credit the creator (and a real one)
  14. 22 points
    WIPs (jastzui | Artstation) if you are learning like me or just curious of the process - tips and feedback welcome.
  15. 22 points
    Personally, I don't think that Shallan's last truth needs to be one single event that happened in her past. I think it's her whole childhood. I think Wit has already told her her final Truth and she just hasn't realized it or faced it yet. Look at the first truth we see her speak on screen. "I'm terrified." I don't think that's a truth of just that moment. She's a totally fear driven character. Everything about her is run, or hide. I think this last truth will be the same idea. It's bigger than just one thing. Every time her childhood comes up it's always this image of the perfect family in her head. A fairy tale of what she wishes her family could have been, placing all the blame for the trauma squarely on her shoulders for killing her mother. And it doesn't add up at all. Her father let everyone believe that he'd killed his wife in a jealous rage, and everyone was perfectly willing to believe it. Her mother tried to kill her. These are things that don't come out of nowhere. But she blames herself for all of it. In the same way a small child blames themselves for their parents getting divorced. I think the lie that attracted Pattern in the first place relates to this. I think Shallan was a frightened and confused little girl in a chaotic household filled with violence, and she just wanted to pretend that everything was alright. And we know where that led. Her mother trying to kill her because she was "one of them." I think her final Truth is going to be what Wit already told her. She doesn't deserve any of the the pain she's been through. She is not responsible for the pain and suffering of her family. No matter how much it hurts her to say it, no matter how much she loved them, her family was not perfect and none of what happened was her fault.
  16. 22 points
    Renarin continues to be awesome.
  17. 22 points
    I did it anyway.
  18. 21 points
    It seems to be the consensus that Kaladin cares too much. That he needs to forgive himself for his failures. That he needs to learn the advice his father always tried to teach him to "choose when to care" and to grow calluses... I disagree. Caring is fine. Grieving is fine. Kaladin's issue, in my mind, has never been about caring too much. And it's not about forgiving himself either. His biggest issue, to me, is summed up by Syl when Kal finds Eth's body shortly after Szeth's first attack in Dalinar. I underlined that last bit because that's it. Kaladin doesn't just want to protect people from harm. He wants to protect them from their own choices. He blames himself for the things other people choose to do. It's why he was scared of Bridge Four forming romantic relationships because it would be harder to protect them. Whether it's the slaves that died in revolts he lead. Or Sah and the other singers he knew, or Moash... He has to respect other people's choices. Whether that means that they go into battle for the same reasons as him and die doing what they believe is right, or that puts them at odds with him and results in them fighting, and even dying by his hand... They made their own choices and that isn't his fault. Kaladin doesn't need to let go of the past, or learn when to care. He doesn't need to forgive himself for his failures. Kaladin needs to recognize that doing his best and failing requires no forgiveness, and that he can't protect people from themselves. He needs to recognize that there's nothing to forgive himself for.
  19. 21 points
    No, silly Navani, we call that the Internal Physical Pushing metal. And then Navani promptly assumes that the mysterious person writing to her must either be a woman or an ardent. *does a spit take* Current theory: Formless is the embodiment of Shallan's negative self-image. I.e. a cold-hearted, lying, psychotic killer. Also, I wonder if maybe Shallan's final secret is that there is no final secret? That she's been suppressing things to herself for so long that her psyche hasn't adapted to not having anything major to repress any more, and so she's subconsciously creating this idea that there's this last thing that will finally break her and make her completely unlovable. Just spitballing here.
  20. 21 points
    Mistborn spoiler That is all. Good day.
  21. 20 points
    To me I see this as a necessary shock to Kaladin's character, he's overdue for soul searching. Mostly, I don't think Kaladin was ever really cut out to be a soldier. He's talented at fighting, but that alone doesn't a soldier make. He mostly just latched onto the role of soldier and bodyguard to Dalinar as a role to give his life focus. Now he can actually start asking himself the important questions about what he really wants to do with his life, and how he can best help himself and others. Kaladin's real purpose is to be a leader. He gives hope to the hopeless, a sense of meaning to the lost, and looks out for the most vulnerable in the group. He helps others shine. It's important to remember what drew Sylphrena to Kaladin in the first place was how he protected his squad in Amaram's army. Not just physically protected, but gave them a sense of purpose and belonging. And that's what he's done to so many other hopeless souls along the way. Various Alethi slaves, all the original Bridge 4, Rlain, Renarin, the parshmen group at the start of Oathbringer etc. Kal is at his best when he's guiding and leading others, so in a way it's a blessing that Dalinar is forcing him to leave the front line fighting.
  22. 20 points
    Well everyone – we got there! Last night, Tay and I finished Words of Radiance together! This book was a much quicker read than the Way of Kings and I think that in spite of Tay’s insistence that she’s only reading these books for me, she really seems interested and committed to the series. It’s super cool to see! Since I haven’t posted since the end of part 3, this is going to be a longish post. However, I assume if you’ve been sticking around and reading these posts since I started this topic all the way back in March, you’re fine with a big dump of reactions. Before I go into the reactions to everything, this general reaction happened yesterday: TAY: Have there been other reactions to your thread on Mind Readers? ME: No not for a while. TAY: You’re not writing my reactions funnily enough. Anyways, here goes! -- *Lift interlude* TAY: This is it? This is the character that everyone loves? Does she have any other scenes in this book? ME: No, but she has a novella between this book and the next? TAY: I’m not sure I get the hype. ME: She’s just too awesome for you. TAY: I’m also unsure that Brandon Sanderson has ever met a 13-year-old girl. ME: Again – she’s too awesome to be a regular 13-year-old. -- *Lhan interlude* TAY: I don’t like interludes. ME: We can skip this one if you like. Not much happens. TAY: What happens? ME: A priest angers the queen of Alethkar, gets executed, and starts city-wide riots. TAY: *sighs* Yeah that sounds pretty metal. Let’s do it. -- There was a stretch of time where Tay and I just literally sat there, zoned out, and listened to the book for like four hours. When I quizzed her the next day, she had two new nicknames: SHADOWFIENDS – Formerly Rock Lobsters, this is what Tay called Chasmfiends. I kind of like Shadowfiends as a name for, like, chasmfiends that have been inhabited by Voidspren like Thunderclasts. How frickin badass does that sound? SHADOWBLOODS – This is the Ghostbloods. I think that Tay’s inherent love for Wheel of Time was seeping through in her retelling here, as there is a pretty prevalent use of “shadow” as a prefix for anything that is bad in Randland. -- I just wanted to comment on her lack of reaction to a particular scene. I, like many of you I’m sure also, cringe horribly when Kaladin says “AND FOR MY BOON…”. Tay, weirdly, didn’t react at all. When I asked her about it, she literally just said “It’s what I would have done. Screw Amaram.” Further evidence that Tay is Kaladin. -- *various reactions to Pattern* “Heh. What a guy.” “I could listen to Pattern explaining sex jokes all day.” “This dude is the real MVP.” -- *Shalladin happening in the chasms* TAY: They’re perfect for each other. They’re both colossal pains in the butt. ME: Yes! Finally someone agrees with me with Shalladin! -- *Kaladin is in the mouth of the Rock Lobster and says “I’m eternally grateful”* TAY: *laughs uproariously* -- *Shallan is strangling her father while singing him to sleep with the lullaby* TAY: Okay, I like how badass she is – but the singing is a little melodramatic for me. -- *Context: we both have asthma* TAY: Whenever I need to use my inhaler I’m referring to it as sucking in Stormlight. ME: I’m absolutely here for this. -- *Dalinar confronting Amaram* TAY: Yes! Go Dadinar! Protect your adopted son! -- In full disclosure, I have had to try to explain where the honorblades fit into the magic system like three times to Tay. By her own admission, she fully doesn’t understand it. However, she definitely understands the Orders of KR and gets that with each Ideal they speak, they kind of power up. At this point in the book, she was kind of getting that Kaladin had to say his next Ideal, but was confused when I referred to it as the Third Ideal. TAY: Third Ideal? Hasn’t he just said one? ME: No, he’s said two – remember “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves” is the second Ideal for the Windrunners. The First Ideal is the same for all Radiants – “Life before death. Strength before weakness- TAY: “Crem before cremlings.” Yep. Got it. -- *Szeth lashes Dalinar into the air* TAY: “I’m Kaladin! Come to save you on my chariot of winds! *air horn noises* -- *Dalinar is floating down thanks to Radiant Kaladin* TAY: I can show you the wooooorld! -- *Kaladin says “The winds are mine!”* TAY: I hate that. So cringey. ME: Cringey!? Okay let’s imagine you’re Kaladin – you’ve been depressed, torn up by your conflicting emotions, beat up, and finally got your powers back. You’ve been thinking about some badass line all the way to Narak to fight Szeth – what would you come up with? TAY: Well I cover up my depression with being funny. Maybe I’d let Dalinar float down and say “did you drop this?” ME: I think you’d just show up and do a dab, say "YEET" and then fight Szeth. TAY: That’s probably exactly what I’d do. -- We then discussed the nature of cringeyness in books like this – we realized that I really appreciate over-the-top badass lines, but Tay loves cutting tension with sarcastic comments. She said that if she had Radiant powers, she’d probably be more like Deadpool in her interactions than Batman. -- *Szeth constantly repeats his name* TAY: “I am Szeth-son-son-son-Dadanndo!” Ungh. I hate Szeth. He’s my least favourite character now. *Tay then spends the next few hours referring to one of our cats as “Flam-son-son-son-Dadanndo”* -- *Szeth and Kaladin fight each other in the air* TAY: Pew pew pew pew! -- *Syl changes from a Blade to a Shardspear* TAY: OOOOOH! So cool! SYL YOU THE REAL MVP! -- *Shallan tells the scholars to bind and gag Renarin to shut him up as she’s trying to work the Oathgate* TAY: Mood. *pauses* Alright… I think I’m starting to like Shallan more now. -- Just a little poetic synchronicity happening at this point – because we live in South Africa, our seasons are inverted from the northern hemisphere. We have summer in December and January and winter in July and August, etc. In Johannesburg, we’re a landlocked city at altitude and thus we have incredibly dry winters in comparison to summer where we have big storms every few days. Point is – since it’s the end of summer we haven’t had a proper rainstorm since, like, May. The day that we finished Words of Radiance we had the first proper thunderstorm in Johannesburg for months. It was so cool and fitting. -- *Shallan says she hates Pattern since she used him to kill her mother* TAY: You take that back! -- Not really a fun reaction, but Tay loved that Lopen could suck in Stormlight. I found it weird because I really didn't like Lopen all that much, but I immediately liked Lift. Tay seems to have the inverse reaction to mine. -- Tay’s reaction to Sadeas’ murder at the hands of Adolin deserves its own paragraph. When it happened, Tay audibly gasped, then clapped like the opening theme song from Friends, then proceeded to get me to pause the audiobook. She then became Adolin’s hype-man for like twenty minutes as she digested the scene. She absolutely loved that Adolin did it – she was sure that when he was saying “Unfortunately for you, I’m not as good a man as my father”, he was going to slide the knife away and say something like “Stay away from my family” and had an eye-roll primed and ready. When Adolin actually killed him, she was so surprised and happy. She then asked me to rewind the scene and play it again so that she could savour the death scene again. Sometimes I worry that my wife enjoys these murder scenes so much, but then again, I listen compulsively to podcasts about serial killers and unsolved murders, so I guess we’re evenly macabre. Long story short – she likes Adolin now, or at least has a hell of a lot more respect for him. -- As the last scene involved Dalinar, Shallan, Kaladin, and Renarin talking about which Order they belonged to, Tay decided to take a shot at naming them all. I’m going to try to recreate her thought process completely: TAY: Yeah, I can name them. I’ve been listening to two of these books now. I’m sure I can do it. WINDBREAKERS SKYDANCERS DUSTSLINGERS Wait. Wait… Oath…. Is there something with oaths? ME: Nope. TAY: I thought Oathbreakers was one. WATERWEAVERS. I don’t know, what other things are there? Oh oh oh! Farmers! They can grow things! Let’s call them… SOIL ENCOURAGERS! You’re not helping me by telling me what the other elements are. ME: None of these are correct. TAY: Um. FIRE? I’m thinking about Earth Wind and Fire. You know? Like September? *sings September by Earth Wind and Fire.* Okay so FIREMAKERS. Oooh ohh! LIGHTSPINNERS. Then the DARKDOERS. STORM…. Ssssssssssssss *making a hissing noise*. I’m thinking of another word! Something that arbitrarily seems to do with motion. STORMSNAPPERS. ME: That’s nine. What’s number ten? TAY: JAZZ HANDS. *Laughter ensues* ME: “I’m Dalinar Kholin! Order of the Jazz Hands! Give Odium the ol’ Razzle Dazzle!” -- There you have it, Radiants. Your ten orders of knights: Windbreakers, Skydancers, Dustslingers, Waterweavers, Soilencouragers, Firemakers, Lightspinners, Darkdoers, Stormsnappers, and Jazz Hands. Not sure when we’ll pick back up and do Edgedancer or Oathbringer, but we’ll give you an update when that happens! Until then – Crem before cremlings.
  23. 20 points
    Hello everyone! We’re back for another instalment of Guardboi – we’ve gotten up to the middle of Part 3: Deadly. The last chapter we listened to is Shallan getting ready to go on her “How do you poop?” date with Adolin. Here are some new names we learned in the past couple chapters: Eshonai – Captain Parshendi Venli – Captain Parshendi’s Sister Rysn – Crippled Khaleesi (this came after I told her that Larkins are referred to as “Dragon Bugs” by Isaac and Brandon) Here are some fun reactions: *Adolin’s first duel, he’s sitting there talking to his Shardblade (like a good Radiant should!)* TAY: Ungh. Of course Adolin talks to his Shardblade. He’s like a guy who kisses his knuckles before a fight. This was just the beginning of Tay’s full-on Adolin hate that’s been going on in the past few chapters. I think it’s cause she likes Kaladin so much and Adolin is bullying her homeboy throughout most of Part 2. Tay insists that it isn’t because she loves Kaladin (which I still think she does), but rather because “Adolin reminds me of every pretty boy, rich, jock idiot I went to high school with!” I just smile because Adolin and Kaladin become such homies and their friendship is one of the most delightful parts of the books for me. -- *After falling asleep through Ym’s interlude* TAY: So some geezer made a kid some shoes? ME: Yeah and then he gets shanked by a guy with a Shardblade. TAY: Should I care about this? ME: Only if you want to know that some guy is going around serial killing budding Surgebinders. TAY: I hope he kills Shallan next. -- *Tay noticed all the weird stuff that Kaladin was noticing about Zahel and started asking me who he was* TAY: Is he a bad guy? He sounds like a bad guy. ME: No! He’s a good guy. One of the best guys, I think. TAY: Oh, is this the one everyone keeps wanting me to meet? ME: Who? TAY: Lift? Is Zahel Lift? ME: *laughter* -- Shallan is crying in one scene: I look over at Tay and there’s a big, over-the-top eye roll. -- *Shallan and Adolin meet* TAY: They’re perfect for each other. I hate it. -- Speaking of Shallan: Tay LOVES PATTERN. She thinks he’s easily the best character and will avidly listen and laugh whenever Pattern has some dialogue. This is real, you guys. Pattern may be the thing that actually makes Tay commit to the whole ten-book series. She has started co-opting “LIES” into her everyday conversation, and appreciates when Pattern attempts to deconstruct metaphors, as she does it frequently with her students. For example, last night Tay learned a new slang word from her students: drip. Apparently, drip, means having a nice, expensive, impressive thing. To have a Ferrari is to have a drip… or be drip? Or be drippin? Not quite sure. However, this realisation happened around the time where Shallan is explaining to Pattern how Nohadon is a ‘symmetrical’ name… TAY: What!? No! I agree with Pattern! You can’t just say that a name is symmetrical when it’s not! Just like you can’t just say that ‘drip’ is cool now! A drip is a lame person! I’m so frustrated with language! Tay now believes that Pattern is too good for Shallan and wants him to find a cooler Radiant to bond with. She put forward Lopen or Rock as suitable candidates to bond with Pattern. -- TAY: Why is Shallan trying to help her brothers at this fair? ME: She’s a good person! TAY: No she’s not. -- *Wit showed up at Middlefest and is asking if spren speak to Shallan* TAY: So, this guy has come up to Shallan and has basically said “Yer a wizard, Harry.” Is that about right? -- Then, the other night we had some Horneater Lager and decided to watch Inception. At one point (you know the scene I’m talking about), Tay turns to me and very quietly whispers, “Surgebinding, Chris!” -- At one point, Tay pauses the reading and has a big old realisation – she is very much like Kaladin. I think she was a little annoyed with her quiz results (see above) that placed her in the Order of the Windrunners, but I think she’s very aptly placed. It was a scene where Kaladin is realising that he’s set a bit apart from Bridge Four and is feeling the weight of responsibility for all of these men who follow him. Yes, he’s set them free from their bondage under Sadeas, but he wants so badly to protect them, even though he knows that he’s not going to be able to protect all of them. Tay has this same thing, from time to time. She often makes a joke that she must have a tattoo on her forehead (that’s some big Bridge Four energy there) that says “TELL ME ALL YOUR PROBLEMS” since most of her students choose to confide in her and ask for her help with their various personal problems and issues. She wants so badly to keep them safe and make sure nothing in this horrible world is going to hurt them, even though she knows that they’re all going to have to go out there, make their mistakes, and be hurt by them on their own. That’s why I love these books so much – they’re not just full of awesome cinematic moments of mind-blowing fantasy, but they also provide characters that we can relate to on a host of different levels. Anyways, even though these posts are mostly happy-go-lucky laughing at reactions to characters and events, this one has ended on a somewhat sentimental note. Kind of reminds me, once again, that the journey is the most important part, and I’m having the time of my life listening to these books again with someone I love. Keep safe, Cosmerenauts! Only 85 days to go! -- PS: This interaction just happened before posting: TAY: Hey are we going to find out all of the bad stuff Elhokar did or are we just going to take Rayse at his word? ME: Rayse? TAY: Yeah… that Lighteyes with the Shardblade who Moash introduced to Kaladin? ME: Oh… Graves! That’s weird because Rayse is actually the real name of Odium. TAY: … ME: … TAY: Spooky-spook.
  24. 19 points

    From the album Other Cosmere Art

    Hoid in Scadrian modern/near future AU (sort of) This is actually for recent art style bend challenge, though I always want to try this look with Hoid still being a bard in modern times XD
  25. 18 points
    Anyone who's taken a foreign language class or watched the youtube channel Translator Fails will know that the online tool Google Translate is not reliable. However, it tends to produce humorous results depending on what languages you choose. So I made this. A place where we can put the translated editions of our favorite passages from Sanderson's works! I've started us off with the most famous and beautiful passage of all time:
  26. 18 points
    I feel like people are overreading the Shallan formless comment. The simplest explanation is the answer she gave back in Words of Radiance shortly before drawing Veil the first time.
  27. 18 points
    Poor Kaladin. I'm also worried about what Navani has gotten herself into with Fabrials. Then, of course, there is Ialai's notebook.
  28. 18 points
  29. 18 points
  30. 18 points
    @FriarFritz @Spren of Kindness @Matrim's Dice @The_Truthwatcher @Mist @The Last Post @Truthless of Shinovar @Eluvianii @AonEne @Rosharan A.C. @Ghanderflaffle @Jaywalk @The Awakened Salad, and anyone I missed, You asked, I delivered, here is 100 Brandon Sanderson / Cosmere Memes! Disclaimer: sorry Ene but I can't 100% guarantee that none of these have been done before, but I did make all of them Spoiler free memes: 8 Elantris memes: 14 Warbreaker memes: 10 Mistborn Era 1 memes: 18 Mistborn Era 2 memes: 12 Stormlight memes: 26 White Sand memes: 2 Shadows for silence memes: 1 First of the Dusk memes: 1 Cosmere memes: 8 Enjoy. (hope I don't crash the sever)
  31. 17 points
    Chapter 10 hit me like I a storming boulder. I know how Kaladin feels, being told he can't serve anymore. Being lied to that his work will be just as important. Most of all I have the same fear as Kaladin, what if he never swears the next oath?
  32. 17 points
  33. 17 points
    From a literary-tropes perspective, I think Kaladin saying out loud (or thinking out loud, to the reader) "I think I'll never swear the fourth oath" makes it much more likely that, later in this same book, he'll find a way to swear the fourth oath. ...for me, this chapter was more of a "phew, that wasn't as bad as it could have been" chapter. Because I can see how horrible Kaladin feels... ...but I was scared that he'd be benched after freezing and watching someone from Bridge 4 die because of it. So if Dalinar catches his issues in time to take him off the field before that, well, it sucks but it's better than the alternative.
  34. 17 points
  35. 16 points
  36. 16 points
    I don't see, personally, how the story has become his depression outside of the story. It's literally the reason he can't progress and get more powers--which spirals into further distance and growth he has to traverse to get there. I also take issue with the idea that we care about Kaladin because he's a mythical Knight Radiant--I think we care about Kal long before he's a Knight Radiant because he's a well written, complex character on a path to personal growth. It so happens, as @ftl mentions above, that in this fantasy context, personal growth = powers, so we are definitely spending more time tryng to figure oout how Kal will grow next. But I think, as I said on another thread, that much of the hand wringing about Kal's depression is really just because we're over analyzing 1 chapter a week, when really, Brandon got Kal to a new pivot point in his character at a relatively quick 10 chapter pace (it's just taken us a month to read). But maybe that's just me.
  37. 16 points
    Whenever anyone asks if they're the only one who has [insert opinion here], no, you're not... you just have to check the main chapter discussion thread to see that a few people complained as well lmao. There's usually a few people who will agree, unless your opinion's really out there... Anyways, Kaladin never actually dealt with his core issues. He just managed to succeed at what he wanted in the first book, finally saving everyone he cares about, which allowed him to feel better for a while - but that never actually dealt with the fact that he can't always save everyone and his inability to come to terms with that. Kaladin has multiple issues that he's successfully distracted himself from and repressed, but as I see it, in book 4, they're all coming to a head; his lack of self-worth outside of being a soldier, not knowing when to let go and stop taking responsibility for the wellbeing of other people, et cetera... and his depression is always gonna be there at times and be an issue, not always for a specific reason, as it's a matter of brain chemistry that can't be controlled, but this time, the other unresolved conflicts Kaladin has within himself are compounding the depression. (I also have to add, there will always be the possibility that Kaladin might become suicidal because of his depression. Like... that's just how it works. It's not going to go away, it's something Kaladin will always have to deal with. It's not a simple matter of just feeling "mopey" from time to time, and I really dislike how that word keeps being used in relation to Kaladin.) IMO, Brandon had Kaladin mentally hit rock bottom and be taken off duty for the purpose of taking his character in a different arc. If it was still looking like Kaladin would remain a depressed soldier, still unable to deal with fighting the Singers/handle losing people, and that would just continue for the entire book, then yeah, maybe I'd call the arc repetitive. But the author clearly intends to actually do something with Kaladin's issues and take him in a different direction that will likely finally allow him to self-reflect and heal in a way that may allow him to say the 4th Oath, so... That said! I think it's fair if people feel emotionally drained or upset, because it is upsetting to see Kaladin like this. If it's not something you want to read, fair enough, and you're not insensitive for feeling that way. But I really do digress with the idea that Brandon still intends to follow the same story beats for Kaladin.
  38. 16 points
    Well guys – we’ve just kept on rolling in our house. To be completely honest, I think that we’ve kept listening to the books together mainly because Tay slipped a disc in her back and so walking upstairs to our TV has been a bit of a mission, so staying downstairs and listening to Oathbringer has been a much less painful experience for her. SO! We decided to skip Soilencourager for the time being, just because Tay wanted more Kaladin/Dalinar/Shallan action – but mainly she found out that Pattern wasn’t in the novella and wasn’t super interested in it. So! Without further ado, I present to you Tay’s reactions to Oath…breaker! -- One of the first reactions she had was to question – “Why did the Parshendi use Szeth to kill Gavilar? They just happened to have a super-skilled assassin who could be a Surgebinder tagging along with them to the treaty meetings?” I was similarly perplexed. In Eshonai’s prologue perspective, she mentions Klade or another one of the Listener leaders being drawn to Szeth by a voice – are we all in agreement that this is Odium influencing the Listeners to Szeth to make sure that this budding future Bondsmith is killed? Or are there other theories as to why Szeth just happened to be around to be used by the Listeners to kill Gavilar? -- To test Tay’s understanding of the books the farther along we go, I asked her to describe what spren are. TAY: Okay Chris. I’m pretty connected to the matrix. I can tell you what spren are. A spren is a cute magical thing that appears out of nowhere and helps you. Like a stray puppy. It’s important to recognize, however, that when they’re cute magical beings they are sometimes gods. Or storms. Or lamps. ME: Lamps? TAY: Yeah, lamps. Like Navani traps them in things and makes them do stuff. Like be lamps. They also come from the magical bead place. ME: What’s that place called? TAY: Sssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh…adesmar? ME: Yes! TAY: Oh good. I really wanted to say “Shallandavar”. -- *After I mentioned some of the Radiant orders* TAY: Willshapers? Is that what they call a conveyancing attorney? Help you dissolve your estate? Ha! -- *Kaladin is on his way to Hearthstone* TAY: Press pause. There’s something I have to do. ME: *presses pause* TAY: *sings the entire song of “My Hometown” off of Bruce Springsteen’s classic 1984 album Born in the U.S.A. while imitating Bruce’s singing voice* -- Not really a specific quote, but when the “No Mating” scene showed up, Tay lost it. She is starting to feel feelings for Pattern usually only reserved for our cats and is now referring to Pattern as ‘my baby’. She loved when Shallan says something along the lines of “Well if you love Adolin so much why don’t you marry him?” and Pattern asks if that’s possible. I think she now likes Adolin enough that she’s fine if Pattern ditches Shallan to bond with Adolin. -- Just a point that we both loved: the scene where Adolin and Shallan practice with their Blades and Shallan just loves doing a thing that Adolin is obviously thrilled about. We realized that being with a person while they’re in their element (even if you don’t necessarily like it) is an important part of love, and something that just makes the relationship that much more special. For me, apparently, it’s whenever I get into some deep rugby analysis or I’m explaining an exciting historical event in great detail. Tay realized that this is why so many of her students love her while her colleagues think she’s just decent – her students are seeing her get animated and gushing about The Great Gatsby or Ulysses or A Thousand Splendid Suns while her colleagues are only getting to know her through faculty meetings and such. Really fun realization through this scene! -- She also kind of wants to use Dalinar’s takama belt anecdote in her classes now, but can’t quite figure out where to fit it. -- TAY: Elhokar? Aladar? Gavilar? Dalinar? Kalanor? Revolar? Mrazie, Graves, and Rayse? Why are all these names so similar?! Can’t the leader of the Ghostbloods just be named “Steve”? -- She got actual chills down her spine when Dalinar realized he heard Evi’s name. -- *Hears Urithiru named* TAY: Kind of sounds like ‘urethra’ and I can’t unhear it. -- *Taravangian and Dalinar talking about Nohadon’s dilemma in The Way of Kings* TAY: Taravangian, you’re heavy metal and I am here for it. Kill them all. -- *I point out that many names in Vorin society are palindromic* TAY: Hahaha. Brightlord Tacocat. -- *Tay is upset that Re-Shephir is not killed by Shallan* ME: Well she fled further into the mountain so she’s not a problem any more. TAY: Not a problem!? She’s still a problem! I’d be even more paranoid living in this place now. It’s like if we had confirmation that there were deadly toxic mushrooms in our house but we don’t know where they are. Would you call that ‘not a problem’? -- To finish things off: I’m quizzing Tay before each post to name the Orders of Radiants. Here’s how she did: TAY: Lightweavers. Windrunners. Bondsmiths. Oathbringers. Edgedancers. Skywalkers. Waterdancers. Oathbreakers. Windrunners. Light… weavers. Have I done that already? Dammit. -- That’s all for now folks! Crem before cremlings.
  39. 16 points
  40. 15 points
  41. 15 points
    So for the longest time everyone has said they think that Kaladins 4th Oath is “I will forgive myself for those I cannot save” and I have disagreed. Not because I don’t think that’s his Oath. But because I think from a Literary perspective that it makes more sense for that to be his 5th Oath. At his core Kaladin’s biggest issue has been his inability to accept failure. And so for his character to come full circle it only makes sense for him to resolve that as his 5th Oath. So, into his 4th. I have always believed that this Oath will be about accepting that to protect you may have to kill. My reasoning for this is in the first book Kaladin goes and kills a lot of Listeners. At the end and through Words of Radiance he questions Syl why it was ok for him to kill them but not Elhokar. For the final battle of book 2 Kaladin finds himself out of action against the Listeners and we get what I think is our first glimpse into Kaladins issue. He only fights Szeth and he doesn’t kill him. He wounds him and the storm kills Szeth. then in Oathbringer in Kholinar Kaladin fights against the Fused and Singers. But he’s conflicted. He’s made friends with a lot of the Singers from earlier and now has to watch his friends fight against each other. Then he fails Elhokar. Now in chapter 8 Kaladin reasons with himself that he should finish off Moash and finds himself unable to do so. if we query the gemstone archive epigraph from Oathbringer, a Windrunner says he will soon swear the 4th Oath. But he’s not sure he can. Shouldn’t he want to help people? The wording has always made me question. How does being ok with not saving people directly go against wanting to help people. It doesn’t. You can be ok with failure because you’re still trying to help. But directly killing people who will cause harm does seem to be against helping people. anyway that’s my reasoning, mostly I think Kaladin being ok with his failings leaves him nowhere to grow in the 5th Oath. And his 5th Oath should really be the climax growth of his character.
  42. 15 points
    I'm just here to gloat. Navani, creator of great suffering? Of course, I called it based on the flavor text on Amazon! She's creating weapons of war using spren, and they don't like it. Who sent the message? I'm thinking someone in Silverlight, possibly one of the spren themselves. If not them, then I'd guess Malata, who besides being attached to the Diagram hasn't revealed her loyalties. Also, who would want to distrust the Honorspren? Who are their rivals? I know the cryptics are set up as their opposite, but I'm not certain that makes sense for the actions we're seeing now. As for the other.... I've been saying this since WoR, so it's nice to get some confirmation in black and white.
  43. 15 points
    I really think Formless is the "original" Shallan. Shallan was created to deal with whatever trauma brought Pattern to her. That is why Pattern is wanting her to tell her last secrets. She isn't who she thinks she is. I can't even imagine what it is that caused it.
  44. 15 points
  45. 14 points
  46. 14 points
    As someone with recurrent depression I actually find Kaladin's sections strangely encouraging. He has the same type of defective brain that I do, suffers through similar annoying and recurrent symptoms, and endures. Despite it all he's still a hero, still helping people, still (mostly) doing his job. I 100% understand why many would find his chapters draining or repetitive though. And I don't think you're being insensitive at all! Oddly enough I think there is a deeper depression empathy projection occurring than people reading these POVs may realize. A lot of the things that readers don't enjoy about Kaladin's POVs mirror the very thoughts that depressed people feel towards themselves. Am I never going to get better? Am I stuck in place while everyone around me moves forward? etc.
  47. 14 points
    I think Brandon is doing a great job with the Kaladin character. To me the way Kaladin is written makes him seem more like a real person and not just a bland fantasy archetype protoagonist. Your sentiment seems to be a common one on the forum, but there are also a lot of people who have written Brandon who struggle with depression that have expressed to him how much it means to them that he wrote a character like Kaladin. So it is definately a mixed bag from the readers. At the end of the day you don't have to like every character to enjoy the series.
  48. 14 points
  49. 14 points
    I finished "Warbreaker" a couple weeks ago. It took some time to find the right references and such but finally managed to get one of the ideas onto paper. Hope you like it.
  50. 14 points
    Moash, the Anti Dalinar? I.e. vs Hmmm....
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