logicless.bt

Between the Ire Preservation-Connection machine, Scadrians using Dor as their investiture fuel, Shai Forging herself, and seons being used as communication, we see ghostbloods use a lot more Elantris magic than we ever saw in Elantris itself!

Given that time is weird in the Spiritual Realm, I think the fact that corrupted mistspren can see through time is relevant here. Also, I'm hoping we get to delve into Renarin's relationship with Dalinar as this occurs. He's repressing the fact that his dad killed his mom pretty damn hard, and I'm hoping that soul shenanigans mean he has to confront that. Especially since Dalinar will likely be shuffling offscreen in one way or another.

Said this in the main discussion thread, but if they've bonded enlightened Mistspren then I think the Ghostbloods will remain active and relevant in the second half of the series. They now have a method of subverting the future sight of any Roshar-friendly Shards. Previously I was of the opinion that Shallan would basically chase them off-world and decrease their relevance, while Roshar and Scadrial would offically have contact in the second half and we'd follow their nation dynamics that way.

Given that there was a sex scene in this book already and some alluded to in the previous, I do think we'll see a new Kholin by the second arc. The kid is going to have the hair color of a Yugioh character

The pink salt is almost definitely roseite imo. That egg couldn't be a dragon egg, could it? I thought they were born humanoid, but dragon eggs are iconic enough that Brandon might want to include them regardless. I wonder if the red leaf is naturally red or if it's corrupted Investiture. Ghostbloods becoming enlightened Truthwatchers adds credence to the idea that a sympathetic character like Kaladin or Dalinar will end up with Honor/Unity -- Brandon is laying groundwork to make the Ghostbloods immune to future sight and therefore remain threatening foes. Also them becoming Radiants is just plain cool. Edit: got sniped by Pagerunner lol

The Sibling said that they themself were a deliberate child of Cultivation and Honor, but also that they were intended as Stone's "legacy" which implies a certain level of parenthood from Stone imo. It's possible that the Storm was simply an aspect of Wind that Honor elevated into godhood. The Radiants getting Stormlight from its namesake also explains why people started worshiping it. The "traitor" thing I think comes from Honor/the Stormfather choosing humanity over the singers during Roshar's episode of God Swap.

That definitely is interesting, because the old gods are said to be different than just spren like the Stormfather. Since nighttime is the time for imagination, fear, and storytelling, maybe Night was the original god of spren?

It's absolutely possible! People theorize that Odium + Honor could create Justice, Vengeance, or War (given that Voidlight and Stormlight together are referred to as Warlight). It would justify a Cosmere-wide war, with Justice trying to destroy other Shards due to his vision of justice.

THIS part I did not know. I actually figured that his initally small role made him more likely to be the decision referenced, because he took on a new life when he was given a chance to breathe and grow.

I've taken the quiz at least five times with a few month gap between each one, and I get Windrunner every time. All I want is to be a Truthwatcher...

This is like, THE major theme of the series, and it's only going to get developed further. The point about Skybreakers not possessing Adhesion and therefore not being closest to Honor is fascinating to consider, I'll be thinking about that

I kind of remember something similar, but it doesn't quite add up tbh. Creationspren form Shallan's Plate, and she is able to use those platespren to create whatever she needs within Shadesmar (iirc it was not a Fortune effect, right?). That's a unique ability based on Plate right there.

There's that WoB about Brandon changing a character's major decision in the final book because it no longer felt right as the character grew. I'm confident that's about Adolin in one way or another -- the question is if he's now electing to become Odium's champion or electing not to.

I agree that there have been no legal consequences, but that was the first step in the downfall of Adolin and Dalinar's relationship. We have yet to see the fallout of that.

If the name of the platespren really does correlate with the manner of power the Shardplate gives, we can make educated guesses. The issue is that there's significant overlap between the type of spren and the powers that those Radiants already get. Stonewards get bind spren, so they'd probably be able to affix their Plate to surfaces -- but that's not much different than using Cohesion to morph stone around you. Skybreakers get gravitationspren. What power could they possibly give that Lashings don't already? Making yourself heavy via your plate isn't that different than lashing yourself downward. Same with flamespren for Dustbringers: they can burn things with their Platespren ... or with division, the power they already have. It gets even harder with emotion spren. Does joyspren plate just center you emotionally? Logicspren plate make you smarter? What would the difference be between logic spren and concentration spren? Talking it through makes me hesitant to believe that the kind of plate spren indicates the power of the plate.

I think this is certainly possible, if Sja-Anat's relationship with Odium changes from RoW. Todium might not want her to secede from the singer side of the war just like how Rayse didn't, but he could be replaced, traveling the Cosmere, or fundamentally changed by Honor by the end of WaT. Or maybe she acts as the patron of the Fused/singer deserters like Leshwi, and somehow manages to break free from Odium's full control over her. Either way, I think that Sja-Anat occupies a fascinating narrative place regarding SLA's themes. We constantly get reminded about oaths and how spren can't change while humans can, and the idea of the letter of oaths vs the spirit of oaths. It's a whole thing with Honor, our side's main god: is complete intransigence the REAL meaning of Honor? Is it more honorable to be able to change your mind and, say, end a war once you realize that the nation you're fighting against was the original inhabitants of the planet you reside on? First it seems to be the former, but as time goes on we shift more toward the latter -- but the thing is, Sja-Anat allows spren to CHANGE, and therefore participate in this discourse. This power is similarly portrayed as twisted and harmful, but opinions on that are slowly shifting. I expect Sja-Anat to become more and more relevant -- there are some truly crazy twists she could do, like offering the Stormfather Enlightenment rather than becoming a deadeye if Dalinar breaks his bond during the contest. [That would be the ultimate expression of letter vs spirit of oaths, but this is a tangent.] But what type of power would she grant via a bond? Fundamental shifts of Odium non-withstanding, I don't think she'll open Odium's Perpendicularity. Perhaps Dalinar-Honor or Kaladin-Honor save her from Odium when she defects, and then she becomes a child of Odium and Honor like the Sibling? Generating Warlight would be really cool because it would power regular Radiants, defected Fused and Regals, and enlightened Radiants.

I came back to this post because I had the same thought. Night was invested enough to be worshiped by the people, how could she just up and leave? The two options are that the Five Scholars figured something out, or that people forgot her enough to let her depart. I struggle with either interpretation tbqh.

Could be that one of the Unmade ruling Shinovar is referred to by the people as "Truth." I don't put much stock in this, but there is a world in which Kaladin bonds Wind to become a Bondsmith and rule Urithiru after Dalinar's Ascension and subsequent enslavement by Odium. I can see a crack theory about WaT being about the Knight who bonded Wind versus the Knight who bonded Truth, although I can't imagine why Szeth would bond Chemoarish or Dai-Gonarthis

In another thread someone pointed out that when I'm Honor's final vision where he talks about the end of the world, a huge dust storm consumes Dalinar. Seems relevant too, and seems to support your point. The new epigraph being purely about dust also is a major point in your favor. I'm curious about DG, though. The two bits we have about it are that it consumes sorrow and maybe caused the destruction of Aimia. These are VASTLY different things. Sorrow consumption puts it on the same scale as the emotion-manipulating Unmade like Nergaoul, even if it's more intelligent than them. They're able to affect large groups of people but their effects are very abstracted (and we have a possible preview of what DG stripping emotion would look like in Moash). Destroying an entire island is sooo different, though; it's power on a scale we haven't seen before. A "natural disaster" Unmade is more direct than anything we've seen the other Unmade do -- BAM affected the whole continent but only through Connection manipulation not direct destruction, and Yelig-Nar super powered one person but it was only ONE. It would strange if DG and chemoarish were the most physically destructive Unmade and they both hid out until they were found in book five. Idk

Kaladin could become Honor -- it would neatly parallel Dalinar naming him his heir, assuming Dalinar falls in battle / loses the contest. Especially if Dalinar reforges Honor prior to or during the contest and manages to drop the Shard off with Kaladin somehow as a final storm-you to Odium after losing. I'd prefer his character arc end with him becoming king but I believe Wit when he says Kaladin might not return (+ the Fleet story is too closely foreshadowing the mission). This would shuffle some first-arc main characters out of the story as promised, with Dalinar dead/serving, Navani as the Tower's Bondsmith and possibly the only source of Light, and Kaladin as a Shard. I think that Dalinar ascending but being bound to serve fits the direction of the Cosmere more neatly, though. If we want a true space war, either the Ghostbloods have to do something irrevocably evil to spawn a planet-wide revenge mission or Honor/Odium/War goes to war.

There was a very similar post on Reddit, was that you? They also brought up that the seat of the Hierocracy (where people were claiming to see the future) could have originally hosted Moelach -- I think it was in Jah Keved but I don't quite recall.

More about the oathpact, because it will either be reformed or fully obsolete by the end of the book. More about the death of Honor, because the Shard will be reformed or combined by the end of the book.

It almost sounds like he's constantly storing Connection! He slides out of people's sight if they aren't specifically looking for him. Doesn't explain the bandages -- that definitely seems like a Cognitive Shadow or air savant thing.

[This is my first post here, but I trawled these forums during the year of Secret Projects.] So, a certain line has stuck with me since last week's chapters, 14 and 15, and I haven't seen any discussion about it here or on Reddit (though admittedly I could have missed it). During Jasnah's section, she thinks to herself: Now, it's phrased rather obliquely. It could feasibly be describing her years of being a secret Elsecaller, but that seems unlikely. The problem at hand is contemporary enough that it makes no sense to beat herself up over the past; additionally, the next paragraph talks about how Jasnah has been hounded for her honesty and compares it to Dalinar, but it does not stop to imagine how she could/would have done things differently if she had gone public. Also, going public would have in no way affected her ability to be chosen as champion or her ability to win the champion's contest. I believe that this is using her Elsecalling powers as a red herring to foreshadow something greater. So the question is: what powers does Jasnah hide? Here is what we know about these purported hidden powers: 1. Jasnah has a reason to not reveal them during an era when Radiants are not only accepted but highly needed. 2. They cannot be confused with regular Elsecaller powers, or else they are esoteric like substantiation -- that is to say, no one has come up to Jasnah and said "Why aren't you doing X?" even though several people, including various rulers, should be in-the-know about the different Radiant types. 3. They have some kind of ominous information attached to them that would upset the public -- this could be cosmere-aware information, Recreance-related information, or they are just flat-out so dangerous it makes her afraid to publicize them. 4. She had a "fit of madness" as a child, which is referenced directly after the above quote. This is part of my main reasoning that she does possess a hidden power as it draws attention to a facet of her past that has thus far only been given a sentence or two. I have run through a list of most reasonable possibilities: 1. Off-world powers: unlikely to impossible. She cannot be Returned, and any Breaths she has would not give her strange powers (and she didn't recognize Wit's Awakening). We have never had a reference to her drinking too much water or a hint from Ivory that she has a second bond, so a Luhel bond is off the table. Feruchemist is impossible; Hemalurgist is ludicrously unlikely; Allomancer is impossible due to lack of lerasium. Elantrian is impossible. It also would feel fairly cheap: there's so much going on on Roshar anyway, it doesn't need to poach from other systems. 2. Corrupted bond: unlikely to impossible. The Oathgate spren look like inkspren, and Shallan can tell when those are being corrupted. 3. Double bond: slightly more likely but still not going to happen. That's been Shallan's whole thing, and narratively we don't need a repeat. Technically being a hidden Dustbringer would match several of these points of information, but not the madness part since Ivory was her introduction to Radiant spren. 4. Elsecallers are just that dangerous, possibly because of microkinesis: medium possibility. We keep bumping up into the fact that messing with Surges and spren can destroy the world. Someone blew up Ashyn. Ishar almost stole the Stormfather's bond. Binding BAM eradicated an entire species' culture and knocked a hole in all intelligent spren. Elsecallers aren't one of the ~4 orders that manipulate axi, but it's possible that Transformation or Transportation offers a similar level of danger. Given that Elsecallers form a miniature Perpendicularity according to WoB, this seems possible. Or else it could be that -- thanks to her talks with Wit -- she realized that teleportation being widely accessible via Radiants or fabrial could cause large-scale interactions between different worlds, even leading to war. 4. Unmade influence: most likely imo. There are several Unmade we know nothing about. We also know that Shallan's family -- which has been plagued by mental illness -- was under the influence of an Unmade thanks to WoB. Brandon does like to separate regular mental illness like Kaladin's from magical mental illness, but Elhokar's paranoia was caused by Cryptics and the Heralds' madness is caused by magic, so it remains possible. What if Jasnah had contact with that Unmade in her childhood? Renarin has access to Fortune from Sja-Anat, and Yelig-nar offers all the Surges; it's possible that her "fit of madness" was some manner of Unmade influence that granted her powers. This would also provided a shift in dynamic for Shallan and Jasnah in the second arc, going from mentor and student to equals at the hands of an unkind creature (and potentially fellow worldhoppers). Anyway, this might just be me reading too deeply into a vaguely-phrased line. But I wanted to say this regardless!