logicless.bt

I think that with her madness healed, she earnestly believes in the Pact once more. Unfortunately, she made a binding deal with a Shard, so eventually he is going to be able to lean on her and force her to break. The Heralds' minds are in the Spiritual Realm, right? The same place that Odium was able to reach Shallan, Renarin, and Rlain?

I'm psyched for all things Urithiru. Surviving in a perfect and self-sustaining, yet necessarily cramped, island is one of my favorite tropes. I think some ashspren will have started bonding listeners in the gap.

Put Autonomy under Exist as well. Hard to get Exist-ier than that, since having your own agency is basically your proof of existence. I also agree with Ambition under change unequivocally.

I mean the new Oathpact. Taln will be subjected to pressure and break, and it will be completely impossible to blame him. A major theme of SLA is breaking and healing. He is THE unbreakable character, so subverting that would be interesting for his flashback novel.

The boldest thing to do would be to co-opt the Thaylen Passions. Yes it's derived from Odium, but following your own heart is very autonomous.

Night would have to shroud. It's an extremely night-themed word. Since the Stone gave of itself so that people could have tools, and like you mentioned the Sibling gives to their people, Stone fits nurture. Honestly, the strangest part to me is Wind protecting. How ... does that fit at all? It should scatter, or explore, or freaking frolic or something. I suppose that Kaladin has used wind to protect from highstorms before. Maybe the Wind used to protect creatures from the storm -- but in that case, why did things evolve to survive highstorms?

I think a Moash redemption is still in the cards. Idk why he'd still be alive otherwise. Preferably it will take all 5 books for him to stone. Renarin and Rlain haven't acted out their Bridger of Minds stuff yet. Not sure how Renarin could end up leading the singers but I do think it'll happen. Maybe via BAM. Valor influence feels like a given, and I'm still on the moon theory. Yawnagawn and Lift get together. Gawx gets a huge leap in relevance compared to books 1-4. Jasnah doesn't get to fifth ideal before book ten. Elsegating ends up being a huge deal because it makes the cold war go hot by providing access to Scadrial from anywhere on Roshar. Taln doesn't get same before his book. I also think that Taln breaking is going to be a critical plot point in his book, and that it will be welcomed. He's done enough, no one blames him for breaking. Cultivation is more in control than she seems.

Most looking forward to? Lowering the stakes and the scope of the series. I love how much the world expanded, but a lot of my favorite moments are weaker people in smaller conflicts -- like Kaladin and Shallan in the chasms. By the end of WaT those obstacles would be non-issues.

Someone pointed out that she was able to recruit Szeth's wife into either the Elsecallers or the Veristitalians. Since that woman was all the way across the world and unable to pass into Shadesmar, it definitely seems like people are either able to communicate or travel to and from Urithiru.

Jasnah is one of my favorites, and yeah that scene was awful and awesome. Since Elsecallers oaths are based around self-improvement, I wouldn't be surprised if this shattering of her beliefs locks her in the 4th until book 10

Appreciate the nuance on this. Very reassuring

I actually think the metal would be more about the key, the way it is for Allomancy. In that case the the pole stone used might have an impact. Steel spike = see metal, like burning steel. Heliodor spike = see connection? Although, there might be six other polestones we don't know about. Since duralumin is the connection metal, maybe there's a nicrosil (investiture) equivalent.

I have extremely mixed feelings about Shards changing, and I wanted to open a space for people to talk about it. For as long as we've known about Shards, they've been immutable. Mistborn makes it clear that both absolute Ruin and absolute Preservation are awful outcomes for humanity -- Ruin ends in destruction and death, and Preservation results in a society unable to change, like the Lord Ruler's. Stormlight Archive expands on that with the exploration of oaths: it builds up the idea that holding yourself to your oaths is the pinnacle of nobility, then slowly deconstructs that idea. Any creature driven by Intent, whether it is Shard, spren, or Herald, is warped by their very unchanging nature and becomes a mindless thing. Stormlight Archive posits very effectively that change is necessary for growth. Why, then, is it a problem that we see Honor begin to change? Because the nature of the Cosmere is conflict between Shards of a monotheistic god, and the way that the Shattering is resolved is THE message of the series. If all Shards must be Splintered, the message is that humans need to take responsibility for themselves and act as autonomous beings free of godly intervention. If Adonalsium is reconstructed and perfect, the message is that God (and by extension humanity) needs diversity of experience and emotional capacity in order to rule or live perfectly, respectively. There's room for middle grounds, but those two directions are the way that the Cosmere seems to be heading. I don't Adonalsium to be reconstructed, or at least reconstructed into a perfect being, because both Mistborn and Stormlight imply that infinite power held by a fallible person is terrible for the world. Shardic Intent is exaggerated, yes, but it's also an inevitability. Whatever personality traits or rules of morality a mortal brings to godhood will inevitably -- given infinite power and infinite time -- become exaggerated infinitely. But if the gods themselves can learn to grow and change... well, yes, that's the theme of Stormlight, but it undermines the message of Shards. The message shifts away from "We as people need to embrace all experiences of life" or "We as people need to take responsibility for our lives" into "Our gods need to be better." I don't want the ultimate theme of the Cosmere to involve perfect gods. I understand that this is my own personal desire, and that as a Mormon, Sanderson is likely to have a much more kindly view of godhood than me. But if the final theme of the Cosmere is a message about godhood rather than a message about humanity, it prevents readers from taking inspiration from it into their own lives. I can read a novel about personal change on an individual level or accepting all emotions within myself and enact those lessons in my own life. A message about how GODS should change is ... inaccessible both to people like me outside of religious institutions AND to those within them, in my opinion. Few religions incorporate deity shifting as part as their core beliefs. The message "your god should be able to think and develop like a person" is either alternately ridiculous or dismissible, depending on whether the religion the reader holds has a Jesus-like figure. I might feel differently if the message becomes "you should demand basic humanity from your god," but I don't want to put words in Sanderson's mouth. How do you guys feel about it?

If Dai-Gonarthis is the Black Fisher/Piper, it might involve giving up emotions -- either of the Fused, or of Odium. A few Death Rattles hint at this, and they haven't been used yet. Also, Taravangian has been balancing on a thin wire with his emotions, so that price could be very expensive for him.

Best as I know: 3. The Shin retrieved it, likely at Ishar's bidding. Another Herald may have been involved. 1, 5, 10, 18, 20. We don't know yet. 17. We don't know yet, except that she can Elsecall. Since all Unmade are aligned with Radiant orders, she's aligned with Elsecallers. No clue what her price is, or what other powers she has. 6, 13. Yes.

I finished the book on Sunday, but I just had time to write it up now. It had it's ups and downs. WaT The good was good: 1. Atmosphere. Specifically, the apocalypse. This is something that made MB era 1 for me, and propelled my interest in the Cosmere as a whole. It's done again here extremely well -- Adolin and Sigzil's part especially. Adolin's slow loss of agency, culminating in losing his leg, really emphasized the overwhelming odds; especially given that there were next to no Fused for the most part and they were still struggling. Sigzil's side emphasized the perpetual darkness and lack of Stormlight, which both harkens back to MB and really hammers home the wide-scale oppression. It also has the added benefit of showing us what nature will be like for the majority of the world post-WaT. 2. Changing the scope of the story. This is my favorite part of Stormlight as a whole -- book one opens with several characters following mostly separate, remarkably small-scale conflicts (save Dalinar) and delves into the Alethi thoroughly. Book two brings those characters together, then a dramatic shift in ecology and politics occurs with the Everstorm. Book three explores the world and global politics in a much broader sense, and ends with a confrontation with a god. Book four involves a war with that god's magical minions, and ends with an all-or-nothing contest being declared. Book five launches off the intergalactic Cosmere! No more little hints and teases; now we get to actually fully explore what a fully connected Cosmere will be, and get more into Shardic politics. 3. Character endings. We knew characters had to shuffle out of the story, it was only a matter of how. Kaladin and Adolin did not die! Adolin's ending especially was great -- we saw him create a new form of power in the Cosmere (that persists through TSM) AND maintain a shining light in the permanent gloom, which is one of my favorite tropes. Kaladin becoming a Herald was unexpected for me, but I really like how it elevates him to mythic status without becoming a Shard. I wanted Shallan to become a worldhopping anti-Ghostblood, but I'm fairly satisfied with her lowkey taking over their role and communicating with (not working for!) Kelsier directly. Dalinar's death was necessary, and according to some people apparently overdue. Jasnah's one of my favorites, and she got a crippling loss that she desperately needed. Lift, Renarin, and Rlain are poised to take positions of huge importance in the back half, which I'm grateful for. Navani (another of my favs) has completed her arc, but she got put on ice which is better than death. I never cared much for Szeth or Venli, so I'm unmoved on their roles going forward. The bad was really bad: 1. A lot of plot convenience/developments that felt unearned. This is my smallest complaint, but it still irks me. Ishar learning how to create visions rather than going to Braize (I never want to hear about visions again) came in a single sentence and resolved a problem that caused the entire plot of SA in the first place! Dalinar getting a happy ending (or close enough) while Odium still gets his perfect little Blackthorn cheapens both aspects -- not to mention, I don't care about the new Blackthorn! The reason the idea of a Blackthorn going from world to world starting war was so striking is because it involved the degradation and suffering of a character who was working to atone, NOT because Dalinar was a realllllly scary fighter. The introduction of the Old Gods who had simply never been relevant before and also are very loosely defined isn't incredibly impressive either -- the Stones singing to Venli is fine but the Wind bothered me. It was designed to "protect" -- what? How? From what? And how could Odium suppress it but not wholly destroy it? It was both too important and too unimportant at the same time. Not to mention Nightblood LEARNING THE SURGES just by chatting with Honorblades, and drawing from people not holding it... (learning restraint was appropriate imo). 2. For a series that prides itself on journey before destination, much of Wind and Truth depends entire on the destination. Especially the Spiritual Realm. Dalinar and Navani explore ancient lore, which is interesting in the short term but provides very little engaging action for their characters. They mostly observe and comment rather than acting with much agency. Same goes for Shallan -- the only thing that matters with her happens at the very end of the book. We cover a lot of emotional ground with everyone in the Spiritual Realm, but it has mostly been thoroughly trod except for Renarin and Rlain. It was interesting to read the first time through, but I expect to skip most of it on rereads unlike anything in WoK, WoR, or Oathbringer. Similarly, I felt like Kaladin and Szeth's journey was recycling the same four sentences over and over again, and the Honorbearers were not a particularly dynamic plot. Sigzil's part of the story had a distractingly thin plot, especially since El and Moash were underutilized. He had next to no internal conflict, since the scientist "conflict" had no antagonist and was quickly resolved. 3. I really dislike the idea of Shards growing and learning, but I'll reserve that for a full separate post. 4. A lot of things that happened will only matter in the future. We spent the entire book searching for BAM, but she vanishes the second she's released. Venli's whole plot leads up to the perpendicularity, but nothing comes of it (though the listeners remaining neutral is certainly some amount of payoff). 5. THE PROSE. I know this is often discussed and dismissed, and I've never weighed in on it before, but I could not ignore the subpar writing in this book. Almost all characters' voices sounded the same, and it was frustratingly modern. Even the Heralds were nearly undifferentiated from other characters. The first thing that an editor should have done was cut out every qualification -- SO MANY characters undermine their own words by saying "I'm *kind of* in charge", "I *sort of* learned how to do this", "I *literally* cannot answer that" etc. It came to a head when Ishar undermined his own dialogue with the word "basically." A supremely confident and ancient being should not qualify his language, and it's just bad writing in general. This is one specific trend I disliked, but the writing universally struggled. Non-dialogue writing was not better -- everything was described as simply and directly as possible, with uninteresting vocabulary and syntax. This was the real kicker for me, and it's been growing worse over time. The only secret project I halfway enjoyed was Tress, because the fairy-tale vibes covered the simplistic prose. But Yumi/TSM/Frugal Wizard fell entirely flat. I honestly would have preferred no secret projects and a well-written and edited WaT. At this point I'm reading the Cosmere for the cosmere, not for the quality of the novels themselves. If WoK had the same quality problems, I would not have continued with the series. I'm hoping that SOMETHING changes in the decade before SA6.

Navani and the Sibling trapped Urithiru in a glass bubble, so there's legitimately no way to get out

Trellism has been around since era 1, and that whole religion was Autonomy getting ready to hijack. Canticle might not have been built yet, but Invention has built at least some grand structures by this point.

I see! We were both half right, since I didn't realize honorspren had some Cultivation in them. This makes Lift even MORE interesting in the back half. Not only is she the only Radiant who can power Surges by herself, but she's also connected to the only spren that has no Honor in it and therefore no Retribution.

I'm hoping Vorinism transforms into worship of Odium simply because I want it to maintain a significant role in the novels going forward. It was such a core part of the early books and felt uniquely Rosharan in a way that really immersed me.

I only read a chapter or two of DSP and thought Jerick was Hoid. Very surprised to find out he wasn't.

I definitely noticed that Tanavast said Cultivation's Intent wanted to get offworld, and that she was offworld by the end of the book. Similarly, she's only played two out of three cards -- and that third card is now immune to the world-shaking changes that just happened AND being trained by one of the oldest and most intelligent non-shard.

Isn't there a line in the Tanavast chapters that says "after creating seven, we each created one by ourselves"? And then the last one was like highspren

In an epigraph, Endowment writes (to Honor?) that she and Valor are the only two who still do not have dealing with other shards. What we know: 1. Ruin and preservation merged. 2. Autonomy has tried hijacking Harmony at this point, and maybe Aona/Skai earlier. 3. Devotion and Dominion were provoked to fight one another (did NOT expect this!) before dying. 4. Cultivation and Honor obviously got together p much immediately. 5. Ambition is dead, and Mercy seemingly helped Odium kill her. 6. Virtuosity does eventually, and seems to have died by this point already given that Wit did not contact her. This leaves the only living shards with no known Shard-to-Shard interactions as Whimsy, Reason, and Invention. I'm not sure who Whimsy has dealt with, but their Intent seems directly opposed to both the other remaining shards. And since Reason and Invention are Intents incredibly closely intertwined, I find it difficult to imagine that these two haven't interacted with one another. The only wrinkle is that Invention seems to be traveling the Cosmere building enormous magical structures like Canticle (but not Braize), while Reason has hidden. This would mean that their interactions were either before Reason hiding, or else Reason has hidden from Harmony and Odium but not Endowment and Invention.

Since the moons each signify a god, definitely seems implied that there's a fourth god present in the system. I'm suspicious that Taravangian looked up, away from Roshar, to search out Valor. She's clearly able to hide well as per Tanavasts PoV, but I also feel that this is a clever metaphor and that searching the skies was the wrong direction -- that she's on Roshar already, beneath his feet, maybe in that fourth moon or something