IlstrawberrySeed

I've seen and had a few theroies. Intent matters. The secondary explosion is what produced the lerasium, and he was trying to preserve the harmonium dust for further experimentation. Hemalurgic charge matters. The fact it was a spike instead of regular trellium, as was likely used by the set, and recovered by the kandra afterword, could have had an impact. %fill or identity & power keys inside could have effected it as well. Discord instead of harmony Something with the harmonium, aka more Preservation power in that piece than most Wax's connection to harmony, and his currently stronger leaning toward preservation. Absence of a shard's attention. In tests done by the kandra, Harmony was paying attention. For the set, it was Autonomy. For wax, even though there was a kandra present, he didn't seem to communicate with harmony. Ettmetal charge. The peace of ettmetal may have had an allomantic charge, and other tests likely wouldn't have. This may have been the cause of #4. Trellium's shape. If the cut happened cleanly and smoothly, a different result may have occurred than one with a slower cut and longer connection.

They cannot move nearly as fast the mistborn with bendalloy. Sure, they cna heal, but their collective stormlight will run out before the mistborn's bendalloy, even if just used for healing, with no leakage. I don't think they need pewtar savantism, but I do think it would be pretty easy to find ones limit in era 2. Find a physician, or get a painmind, and do tests. You have to devote some amount of attention, but it isn't relative to the argument. If they moved the same speed, but the mistborn experiences between 5* to 15* the amount of time. They cannot easily do the same thing, because the mistborn can just dodge, in a way a radiant cannot. Bendalloy savantism. 5* to 15* time dialation, that moves with them, catches no one else unless you want it to, and moves with you. ANd that is without superboosting it. A bendalloy savant is usually considered faster than a fullborn without savantism, who has steel compounding and the horseshoe trick, though I don't neccessarily buy that, they are faster than radiants, baring windrunners, who can get to an infinite speed due to gravitation, but that takes infinite time, and can only go one direction. Windrunners would take several minutes to reach the speed of a bendalloy savant in a single direction, and the bendalloy savant can change direction. The bendalloy savant would die of old age before the windrunner kills them.

Same with necrobursting or emptying with aluminum. Subsumers can enjoy anything they want with a little bit of A-aluminum.

I'll read the theory, but why can't one tap/fill a metalmind your touching in the cognitive or spiritual? And it would use a perpendicularity. A fullborn is best with lots of small metalminds because of durilium unless the investiture/gram increases drastically.

OK, but why can't someone multitask? Isn't that what you were saying? I'm pretty sure he had to choose which metal to burn, invested or non-invested. I'm fairly certain you cannot get the regular effect out of a metalmind until you burn out the attribute. Right, but in about 24cc s of metal. The amount of investiture that can fit in metal doesn't change based on fuerochemical power. Also, variablity in fuerochemical power is shown in decay rate for compression and tapping at the same rate. Actually, you only need to keep a small portion of the speed that you are currently compounding. There is a WoB saying there is decay from moving an attribute from one metalmind to another, but no attribute will be expressed, and the same should happen with compounding, even with durilium. I can't find it, but Ive spent awhile looking for it. The mistborn has a large amount of survivability without using fuerochemistry, so a very viable strategy is wait for the radiant to go dun. Thing is, the bands of mourning were tiny. The compounding one can get from such small material is incredible, I estimate about 1/4 of the investiture that can be stored in metal can be gotten through compounding and storing the attribute back into the metal as you burn it. Fullborn may as well have atium even when he doesn't, nor does he have atium shadows in a tinmind. Compounding doesn't work this way. As the metal is burned, the investiture is pulled out. If the metalmind isn't full, then eventually it will revert to being non-invested, and the allomantic effect. The fullness doesn't matter, only the amount of investiture. 1 second of half strength will get you ten seconds of half strength after burning for 1 second in a metal flake and in a bead. The strikethrough is mine, as I am addressing multiple paragraphs, and don't want to delete them like most other times. I don't mean diminishing returns as in compression rates. There is a WoB that I have failed to find since I read it that says that one can move an attribute from one metalmind to another without exhibiting any of the attribute, but there is some loss. I think it works the same when you compound and immediately chuck it into a metalmind. Maybe, and Probably. It works like that in the MAG, but we don't know exactly how quality differences in allomancy work, and how those interact with fueorchemistry. Is the extra investiture based on metal or effect? It would speed them up though, because you both get more investiture and can burn faster. There is loss even at base rate, as investiture is used at some point in the process. Also, durilium bypasses it. D-burning is more efficient than D-tapping, which is more efficient than tapping. Burning itself is a different matter, because there is less finesse, but it is useful. Do note I likely meant D-burning, not regular burning, but it's been a fat minute. What about a hemalurgic F-tin spike with an associated tinmind with atium shadows? I've read TLM, but I don't know what spoilers your talking about. Would you spoiler box the sections for me? I disagree. A mistborn with C-Gold can run away and/or hide and/or survive long enough for the radiant to dun, and then fight them as someone with live plate and live blade vs a mistborn with C-G Time for the next volley of replies: Diminishing returns goes away with Durilium - it provides the investiture required for compression. That is why the upper limit is so outragous - Practically, one can a ton of attribute at once, and because of the way it only pulles from the metalmind(s) your tapping, you can use many metalminds to provide duration to your D-tapping. Durilium is one of the best allomantic metals for the combat fuerochemical metals. Benadally, Gold, and Durilium are the 3 best allomantic metals for a bloodmaker as far as speed-healing goes. The contact strengthens the Connection, I assume by several orders of magnitude, but tapping can augment it enough that you are still more connected than a fused on the ground. I personally believe you would stop seeing the part that is severed. If not, it is a lot more difficult to notice, and I would agree with the others (not to gut wounds, but yes to fingers) especially since one would make sure to have those things visible in the shadow. I'm pretty sure one can reach that with just practice, but more importantly, tin compounding. You can store steelsight and ironsight in a tinmind, and compounding it will make it much stronger. You can totally see shards with it, and probably souls and axi as well. I actually think it might be useful them, allowing them to burn/fill/tap metals that haven't been mined. I think basic is possible, but the complex way I was discussing probably requires practice. Also, TLM spoiler should be in a box, even though it has no specifics (I don't think specifics would eb allowed to be in a box. I still think those were numbers he pulled out of thin air. Also, will we ever know? This seems like something that might not be explained until after the cosmere is finished. I would actually assume it burns slower - pewter is about as fast as steel and iron, but does more than F-Pewter. And F-pewter makes matter, so it should be more than F-steel. This is how it works. As I've said earlier in this very long post, a fullborn would make it noticeable, even if it is just a negative control. Keep in mind that electrum does allow for back-talk - in sign language. I like that, haddent thought of it that way. Good point. Definitely top 3 allomantic metals for speed healing as a bloodmaker. This isn't how it works, it drains it a specific rate as the metal is consumed, and a metalmind that isn't full will revert to the allomantic effect, if the attribute isn't moved back into the metalmind per the WoB. And it is in moving it to the metalmind where the (very theoretical) loss is coming from. I don't see what the multiple metalminds means, do you mean types of metals or metalminds of a single metal? The latter doesn't do anything AFAIK, metals only burn so fast. I don't know what you would be trying to get if the former. She may not have been touching all the strands, but it's a good point. Time for the third volley: I'm not addressing these in order. When compounding, you burn the metal at a rate of Y grams per second, and taps it at rate X per Y grams. The amount of investiture is what matters when compounding, not % fill. The investiture is evenly distributed, but the investiture is being pulled out. Also, it fuels 9* the attribute, as you get 10* back after putting in 1*. Also, A-pewter provides a multitude of effects, while F-Pewter provides 2, strength and mass. We don't know the rate of conversion for investiture to mass, but I dought that 1 unit of investiture provides more A-pewter strength than F-pewter strength. The WoBs say that burn rate is based off of work, so if we think that 9* fuerochemical traits takes more investiture, than the burn rate will be faster. IF we think it's less work, then it would burn slower. Less pure metals have weekened effects, by pulling less investiture out. I suspect that one couldn't burn it at different rates, but to get the effects of a low burn, one might need a regular, or even flared.

A while ago I had sent an email to brandon via the forum on his website. In it, I had listed the 7ish books I had read, and asked for no spoilers. Some of the questions are obsolite, new ones have come that are more important to me, and I have now read many more of the books, and am fine with spoilers in a specific format (that allows me to bypass them). Is it possible to edit it, or send a new one and delete the old one, or anything else of the sort?

Also going to say what I said in the other thread - the bands had about 24cc of each metal. After diminishing returns, that is a huge amount of investiture per cc. Memories must be incredibly investiture intensive for keepers to where that much copper other than for orientation. 2 and 3 (for tapping) can be mitigated with realmatic shenanagains, by sending metalminds to the spiritual realm. 4 and 5 are issues, but Electrum should help with that. That shouldn't matter - we don't know the decay rates, so we can only calculate at 100% effeciency, and metal can only store so much no matter the strength of the fuerochemist. I want to see that.

Alder is right, It's much too slow. With diminishing returns, BoM: I don't think those are real numbers for diminishing returns, after all there is loss from tapping at regular speed. Perhaps not noticible in practice, but still there.

It could be more as a smokescreen, but it also could have to do with kandra's suceptibility. Sazed made koloss true breeding, but made kanda immune to Emo-Allomancy. Presumably, he couldn't simply remove the weakness, but had to move the hole - and naturally that would move to him, since he has no intention of using it. Meanwhile, for human constructs, he didn't change anything, so 4 spikes were needed before for absolute control, and trellium seems not to count towards that. Kandra only need 1 spike for that now.

It might have to do with intent, or with timing. If he was tapping an almost emtpy or incredibly small metalmind instead of a full/regular metalmind, then Durilium tapping wouldn't have been noticible, and after he stopped burning durilium, he could have switched to tapping a regular metalmind.

I've been trying to train it to answer the current and past shards, vessels, and intents. It isn't going so well.

True, but again, it isn't needed. Squires are a minor inconvenience, not something that is actually important. A smart mistborn learns their limitations with a physician/pain-tinmind (unkeyed or unsealed) to not kill themselves while testing. That is a realitively simple weapon, and AFAIK not terribly advanced. Would lit oil be preferable? Any liquid projectile can take out a squire. The squire can heal, but only for so long. I used acid because I fogured it would be less stormlight effecient, but plenty of others exist. And Squires can have it, but the mistborn is moving so fast the only way it is useful is if they crease a buble around themselves, which doesn't exactly help offensively, as it takes you out of the fight. It was targetting Frus, and he answered (After you). Should be obvious now. But squires are moving, in relation to the mistborn, slower than a snail moves to us IRL. They can team up agaisnt a normal speed person, but when that person is whipping about faster than you can track them, there isn't much that can be done. Intresting, But I feel like it could be like A-Emo, where directionality is still possible, but single targeting is still difficult, which is fine for general hight, but not positioning. Perhaps Savanting would change that, but it really only makes it so that the mistborn doesn't have to wait on the ground for flying squires, or run from them like flying radiants.

Thanks for making the conversation fresh for when I hop in. Also, can't you just hook up metalminds to follow (touching) in the cognitive realm, and send some to the spirit realm, in order to bypass that? They can store, and more importantly tap connection to the ground. This makes RL less powerful. Marasi was new to all of the powers - she didn't even think of durilium, (though it wouldn't have been an option, since they were all one metalmind) and she didn't use finnesse at all. Wax was much the same. A fullborn would have much more skill, and much more access to powers between D-tapping, finnesse, and stored attribute. In the physical sure, but they should be able to tap metalminds in the cognitive/spiritual realms, especially if they are spine severed. I don't think this should be used now other than just another way to ensure that the fullborn can survive a spine strike. WoB says one can transfer atribute from one metalmind to another without showing effects of increased attribute. There is some loss to this, but it should work the same for compounding. Durilium just makes it faster. Intrestingly, I think that steeljumping could still be faster, and more practical in this situation. If they reverse lash your anchors, then you use that as extra speed in getting where you want, and tapping connection to the ground allows oneself to avoid the worst of RL targeting them. It was? What did it become? Also, it's an example. Rashek isn't as poweful as the WoA, only a sliver of the power from it was used to increase his allomantic power. This WoB also came before TLM, so it isn't a valid argument in the specific scenario Mistborn Vs. Radiant there. I wouldn't put it past necrosil compounding. WoA is only an example, likely the mists were less powerful at a given instant than the WoA. I don't know that they are too large, but I agree those arguments are bogus. Also, TBoM were tiny. 16 metals in something roughly the size of a fist. 1/16 the size of the fist is only 24cc. Durilium provides the investiture required to compress the attribute, same as metals, so there is no loss of attribute from diminishing returns of tapping, (are for filling with compounding, see 3 above) so it's somewhere between our opinions. Investiture out =investiture(stored) + investiture(received) + investiture(mass) - investiture(pull) - investiture(compression), where the pull is the investiture used to pull from the spiritual realm. I do believe that if you burn through X amount at normal speed and at flaring, you will get diffrent amounts of investiture, which is what durilium messes with. Could be wrong though - it would mean durilium is the least investiture intensive of all metals. Vacuums are the windrunners best asset. Durilium fuels compression instead of stored attribute, so diminishing returns comes from the compounding, not the tapping. The burn rate increases, but the moles to investiture rating doesn't change. Because burn rate increases, more power is available in an instant. The hardest part about shattering plate is keeping from one of you moving. You would quite literally be positioned relative to him for the punch to work, which likely means reaching around to punch in your direction. Not easy at all. Breaking, sure thats easy, but not shattering or shattering and dealing damage. The other thing is it doesn't have to be an allomantic material - only partially. Take steel, fill it with speed, then purify it to iron. What's the biproduct? Invested CO2. Is it useful? Probably not. I'm splitting this quote up. It depends on what you mean by "tightly packed enough" - the metal:Investiture rate is higher if you aren't filling the metalmind while burning it, which may or may not be possible while D-Compounding. However, you don't get 10* of it back into a metalmind, there is decay in channeling the investiture from one metalmind to another, and that should hold for compounding. I don't understand the first bit - It's more effecient to compound your metalmind then to tap, unless you are going to D-Tap. I don't understand the first bit, and the latter bit can happen while compounding - You burn a partially full metalmind, and channel the attribute gained into the metalmind being burned. I don't see this as swaying it much. I agree about pewter. Prep time isn't a whole lot for a fullborn with steel, but even without it goes quick. If we are filling, to a constant amount of attribute, a metalmind in ourselves, then D-burning will cause the attribute to compound multiple times, and then give us the potentially deadly burst. If you split the filling between 2 metalminds, then there is no potentially deadly burst, and the whole burst goes into the second metalmind. This cannot be done with durilium unless you have a necroburst friend, but with an unsealed necrosilmind with A-necrosil should have that no-problem. In an instant, you can get about 1/4 the amount of attribute you'd get if it was already full from absolutely empty. The metal:attribute rate is the same as it would be for regular compounding, if not greater, but less efficient than compounding without filling. Also, where do you get that you cannot unconsciously compound? If you aren't storing it for later, it should be the same as burning any other metal. It would be interesting to see a mistborn that only had access to unkeyed metalminds unconsciously burn wakefulness and gold when going unconscious. Physical limitations as in metalmind size is an issue, I've discussed alternatives I don't think should be used here, but also, 24cc held the attributes of the bands. The size for superhuman feats aren't that large.

I still believe that it's charged, but at this point it's more a hope than something backed by evidence. All of these could be used to create hemalurgic constructs. The biggest question is what is required? Chimeras could have stolen a numeber of things, and if stolen from a non-human, then the chance of being a construct is much greater. Nrcrosil stelaing breaths is intresting since it's mostly physical, but otherwise H-N is the most clear. (I don't understand why there is a hybrid fuerochemical power for hemalurgy, since all the metals can be stolen with other spikes - I have a feeling the hemalurgy chart is not as defined as we think it is. Then again, entropy could be used to explain it away, but I wish there to be more forshadowing for that than there has been for someone of Brandon's skill. Good points about Durilium and chromium, I agree on all of them.

Wax gains speed by filling weight midair, but sazed filled, then stepped off. Kinetic energy doesn't increase if mass stays the same.

This uses false premises, specifically in alloying with shardmetals, and number of shardmetals a shard can have. @MangoBoi101, a formula using 2 variables is metals * E<n=1, metals> possible charges of the metal The problem is that this means the number of effects is either infinite, or finite because metals-charges overlap.

Ah. Bendalloy and cadmium savantism is incredibly useful. Pewter, Electrum, and Bronze less so, but better than any other option, unless savants can push/pull on trace metals. Tin is more of a hindrance, unless you have pewter savantism as well. Perhaps still a hindrance against lightweaving, but not other orders. Pewter can make one reckless, but only if they lean into it. Savantism isn't mind control - a smart mistborn would't be reckless even if they are a pewter savant. I don't think that squires are that much help - One can simply splash some acid on them from a speed bubble. It's the best tactic against non-plated foes that isn't invested. Sure, trapping them in a cadmium buble might work, but then you need to stay by them. Acid is harder to heal from, or deal with while healing, than steelpuntures, and because of time-dencity I don't believe one can brute force or puncture a human without D-bursting pewter, and I don't believe that would be effective. However, one could try to stab them as they enter the buble, then back off so their out again. Either way, the squires should be dealt with. And I don't know where your getting the no-pushing outside for flight. With savantism, I think it easily goes to mistborn. Squires can be easily dealt with via speedbubles, and speedbubbles will allow the mistborn to get into melee with one with a blade without having to worry about soul damage; though the best strategy for dealing with a radiant is still wait until their dun, then fight them; both of which are easier with bendalloy savanthood. Savanting Tin is fine with pewter, but both are uneccsary helps. Same with S/I, Cadmium, and bronze. Bendalloy savanthood is the only requirement.

The formula that made the 19thousand digit number was the culmination of months of filling zink at work and tapping it later. I will work on this, but it is unbeleavably complex for something that sounds so innocent. The problem is that the number of fuerochemical effects is based on the number of hemalurgic effects, and vice versa, so it isn't simply a formula, but multiple with a decent number of unknowns mixed in. Alomancy relies on both the number of F and H effects. Oh, and it relies on what materials each metal has, and what other metals those can be apart of, and wether charged impurities (such as .1% iron, fuerochemically charged, in otherwise pure copper) due to effects. I wouldn't expect fuerochemical charge to effect fuerochemical charge, but who knows about F for H, H for F, or H for H, and of course it has effects for Allomancy. I don't see why he couldn't be referencing shardmetals. If silver isn't confirmed, I am going to operate under the idea that the number of fabrical medals are the same as the number of metals in the metalic arts. A fabrial is a piece of magitech from the stormlight archive. It consists, in part, of a gem filled with magic and a cage made of metal. The metal is one of the 2-3 primary variables determining what the fabrial does.

That's the same way I read it, but I extrapolated out that since it's net nuetral, the investiture must be used. The only times it can be used is when it's kinetic - tapping or filling. If you disagree with these extrapolations, please let me know.

The 19 thousand digit number is the numebr of metals if the aformentioned X = 6, S=1, and is only the number of metals, not number of effects, so does not acount for fuerochemistry or hemalurgy in any way. The real formula for effects is something that I cannot even comprend, since it requires calculating the number of effects in MSA (magic system A) based on the number of effects in Magic System (B) for each metal in the alloy that it can be an alloy in, not the simple thing @Frustration put out. Silver is a fabrial metal? Is that confirmed or just implied as in the WoB? Fabrials are a form of magitech, that should probably be spoilered, but it isn't important to the story at any function until about 4 interludes after you learn what they are. I don't understand the whole formula, but if 1.7x 10^19729 is the 19 thousand digit number, then the 16 isn't needed AFAIK. Also, it doesn't account for improper charges or charged impurities. Take Durilium: It can have coppermind, Durilium mind, Pewtermind, And possibly Aluminum Mind charges in it. And the same for hemalurgy. And that's if it's a perfect alloy and Shardmetals are not availiable. If you add in a singular shardmetal, then you get more than 17 aditional charges that can effect the Allomantic effect of Durilium.

Yes, that WoB. It's describing the effects of loss through generations. The weakening of fuerochemistry is the amount of investiture used to store and tap. We don't knwo for sure where the investiture is used; tapping, filling, or both. If there is any investiture used in filling at all - I would expect it to be possible to permeate the soul, even though it is part of the soul, it's moving through other parts.

I menat unkeyed, my bad.

Support: Necrobursting & sliding allys, are the 2 main magical supports, though mundane supports can be used if one can be thought of. Unkeyed: Making unkeyed metalminds.

As far as we know, the number of allomantic effects is equivelent to fabrial effects (metal effects on a fabrial), which are rouphly double fuerochemical/hemalurgic effects, which over twice the number of metals.

That is the word I was looking for - my computer wasn't suggesting that as a viable spelling. A fuerochemist cannot tap at the same rate for the same time as they filled, though I cannot find the WoB I'm referencing. He says something along the lines of "Yeah, it's not 1 to 1. There's some loss there." I took it to mean loss in trasnfer, not/and loss in compression, but it could be just the latter. Also, I think since this argument is no longer relevant to the thread, it's ok to disagree without contenuing. I am genuinly on the fence - you one this fight, even if not absolutly.