Letryx13

Perhaps, but I doubt that makes too much of a difference unless he was a full Savant. And Rashek supposedly survived being decapitated and being reduced to little more than a skeleton. We don’t know that he did this for certain, but it sounds more significant than anything we’ve seen a radiant recover from. Yes, Shallan survived a crossbow bolt through the head, which seems to me to be the most significant injury we’ve seen a radiant survive, but her head was still attached and undamaged besides the bolt. I don’t think a radiant could survive decapitation.

I don't know. Miles had compounding healing and he healed so fast he didn't even feel pain. That seems to be stronger than Radiant healing. And Internal Radiant healing seems more powerful than EdgeDancers and TruthWatchers abilities to heal others, The Radiant/MistBorn matchup is complicated. Everyone argues that if the MistBorn gets ahold of the Radiant and leeches them, the Radiant is helpless. The problem with that is that most Radiants can inflict major damage as soon as they touch their opponents in turn. SkyBreakers can use Division, which could theoretically cause a MistBorn's body to decay when they touch them, which would turn it into a contest of who grabbed who first. Combine that with the fact that SkyBreakers are likely faster in the air and can change direction more easily, and you have the whole situation boiling down to skill, and that's individual. Stormlight seems to provide enhanced reflexes and reaction speed comparable to Pewter, so while MistBorn are stronger than Radiants without their plate, I'd wager speed (reaction speed, not running speed) is probably similar. And that greater physical strength doesn't matter much in this scenario. Atium of course changes everything, but I don't think it's fair to include that since we're not including Radiant plate. This seems a very close match to me, much like Radiant's with full plate against MistBorn with Atium. I'd lean toward the Radiant having the advantage in a 60/40 kind of way, with the environment being the biggest factor. A MistBorn surrounded by metal in a city can maneuver almost as well as a WindRunner or SkyBreaker, but someplace where there isn't as much, such as on Roshar or any random forest, and they are in serious trouble. The length of the fight matters too. I think a SkyBreaker would have an advantage in a drawn out fight, since they can recover from wounds, and Stormlight seems to grant equal or greater endurance than Pewter.

I actually love the idea of the deal Taravangian made with Odium being the very thing that ends up defeating him. I've had the same idea too, but there's another problem. If Dalinar is able to ease the restrictions of Odium's promise to Honor (as he represents Honor), then Taravangian would have been able to ease his restrictions on Odium. And since Taravangian is now Odium, how would that work? Is he bound by a promise that he basically made to himself? On the other hand, I think most of the Diagram organization knew about the deal, so Dalinar might find out from them. My idea was to try and provoke Todium into taking action against Karbranth to "save" it, which violates his agreement with Rayse. But your idea might be better. Rayse agreed to spare anyone born to Karbranth and their spouses. We know that Liren was trained by a Karbranth surgeon. I wonder if Kaladin himself was born there. My brother had a theory that the super smart day Taravangian was actually tricking his future self, and this feels similar. It's just so good, the characters own actions literally going against themselves. That's the rub of the theory. Dalinar's exact words were "...but you will return Alethkar and Herdaz to me, with all of their occupants in tact." The part of stopping the war is a separate sentence. Obviously, Dalinar is attempting to get Odium out of Alethkar and Herdaz, but the terms state Odium will return them to Dalinar. On top of that, Rayse was the one that said he honored contracts in spirit, not following the letter of his promises. Taravangian seems to be a little more technical in his interpretation of contracts, judging by what he did to Wit in the epilogue. So I suppose it comes down to how literal the interpretation.

Immediately after i posted, I realized why pain spren made sense. Although, I always interpreted their oaths as being about dependability more than resolve, but that's just me. Do the heralds get plate?

The Singers also accuse the spren of betraying them. This is in another one of the Listener's songs. I don't remember the exact line, but it mentions how spren can feed off of humans more easily than singer. Because of that, I'm pretty sure that after the human's arrived, they started bonding with humans more than the singers, which is what angered the singers so much that they attacked the humans and spren out of jealousy.

If I had to guess, I would say Concentration spren for TruthWatchers, since observation tends to require concentration, and those type of spren tend to be around scholars, which a lot of TruthWatchers historically were. Why Pain spren for Stonewards? WillShapers are about freedom, which is tricky. And we haven't seen a direct connection to another type of spren yet, like Wind spren to Honor spren. No real ideas for that order.

I've said it before and I'll argue it again. I think that this contest is the opportunity to bind Odium permanently. If Odium loses the contest, he has to return Alethkar and Herdaz. But if he doesn't have both of those to return to Dalinar, then he can't return them, which would force him to break his oath. That puts him in Dalinar's power, and Dalinar could then order him to return to Braize, never interacting, influecning, or empowering anyone ever again. It's hard to imagine how either country could fall out of Odium's hands in less than ten days, but I think it's a mistake to call it impossible. The main possibilities that jumps out to me is the GhostBloods or some other third party to the Desolation coming into play, or the singers of Herdaz rebelling (since Kholinar seems to be the singers capital for now, Herdaz seems more likely to slip free of Odium) and breaking apart from the others that way. I also have not ruled out Kaladin as the champion. Most readers were assuming he would be, despite Sanderson's attempts to convince us he wouldn't be. Dalinar makes it plain he was planning on being his own champion since at least Oathbringer. Then Dalinar's conversation with Rayse setting terms for the contest and then his conversation at the end with Kaladin. It just seems like Sanderson is trying really hard to convince us. And I'm not convinced. Kaladin is headed to Shinovar with Szeth in book five, and the Shin have an Oathgate, which means, it is entirely possible that he could be back at Uritheru in time for the contest, possibly failing at retrieving Ishar in time to train Dalinar in BondSmithing. Adolin as Odium's champion is a possibility that ties frighteningly well into my theory. Aside from one brief sparring match, we've never seen Adolin and Khaladin actually fight. It's stated that Adolin has trained Khaladin in using a sword, but we've never seen it. As much as I don't want to think that Adolin would support Odium, Tarravangian is crafty enough that he could probably find a way to manipulate or coerce Adolin into complying. Taking Shallan as a hostage, for instance. I actually think that it's a likely scenario. Tarravangian kidnaps Shallan to control Adolin, who lets himself be used as a champion with the idea that Dalinar won't be able to kill his own son. But as the twist, Kaladin steps in to do the job. I hope it doesn't happen, but I think it's all too likely.

It literally says he's not sorry for what he did.

Yes, but how the people of Scadrial choose to fight is important. Relying on Harmony alone goes against the very ideas that Harmony has encouraged for centuries. The kind of explosive created by splitting Harmonium seems comparable to the kind of explosive power of nuclear weapons. Combine that with the rocket technology Scadrial is close to developing, and something comparable to nuclear war is terrifyingly likely. But there's a big difference between facing one powerful enemy and two or more. To use a military maxim from Roshar, Shardbearers can't hold ground. Besides, allying with worlds like Roshar or Sel could give Scadrial access to things that Autonomy doesn't have access to. Technology alone is less likely to achieve that. Kelsier's judgement is more than a little suspect. The actions of his agents on Roshar prove he doesn't pick people based on their character as much as he once did, or at least doesn't keep careful track of them. His goal might be to protect Scadrial but his methods are concerning. The Lord Ruler went through similar brutality to keep Scadrial safe, and look at the kind of villain he became, despite having honorable intentions by Sazed's admission. Sazed even confront's Kelsier with that idea, by using the breeding programs as an example.

If invested people aren’t able to easily leave their world through shadeSmar, I doubt traveling by spaceship would work much better. But Autonomy is able to send her forces through shadesmar, which probably isn’t technological. That’s what Scadrial needs to focus on, so they can develop alliances with other worlds. And while it’s true that Harmony’s power makes him a target, Autonomy also has to be careful dealing with him for that same reason. He is, by one measurement at least, the most powerful being in the cosmere. That’s not an opponent to be taken lightly. Besides, autonomy’s real threat seems to come from her greater understanding of magic systems, like with the Trellium spikes. If the Set had more advanced weapons, they didn’t show them much beyond more advanced metallic arts. Most importantly, and my original point with this poll, if Harmony just gives them the knowledge, he actually weakens their growth. He talks about this in his conversation with Wax in Shadow of Law. He made the basin too perfect, which prevented people from advancing. Helping to encourage growth is fine, but just handing out things like that makes people reliant on it. And that prevents growth, since they believe they can just count on whoever handed out the resources to do so again.

And yet it’s that very advancement that turned them into a target of Autonomy the first place. Besides, if Autonomy is sharing information about technology, and Sazed does the same, then it turns into an arms race, and that never ends well. Personally, I think he needs to encourage the advancement, perhaps a little more than he has, and try to reach out to other worlds to make allies. I’m fairly confident that Mistborn Era two happens before Stormlight Archives, so maybe try reaching out to Roashar or Sel. Prove to Autonomy that unity is superior.

I think the extra bit of Ruin's power is building up inside Harmony. That's why he's starting to become unbalanced and turning into Discord. I just hope it can be stopped or reversed.

I’m sorry, but that’s not what the quote means. What Moash is saying is the same as someone being sorry they were caught doing something wrong, not sorry they did something wrong in the first place. If he was truly sorry, he’d be able to say it. And he’d try to do something, anything to make up for it. And while Sanderson doesn’t force feed character development, he does show when characters are conflicted. When Kaladin considers assassinating Sadeas and Amaram in WoR, it shows him specifically thinking that something doesn’t sit right with that. And again, in RoW, Kaladin struggles with his father’s logic about passivity. Moash is not showing this conflict; he’s acknowledging that he doesn’t regret his actions.

It's less that Szeth has been forgiven and more that he's been given a chance to atone. I don't believe that he should be instantly forgiven, considering how foolish he was, but what he did is still different than someone who doesn't regret his choices. Again, even on the day of the fire at the Rift, Dalinar acknowledged that they'd gone to far, and was haunted by the screams he heard of people dying. Has Moash shown anything like that in terms of remorse or regret? When Moash was presented with the chance to confront what he'd done, he blamed the entire world, saying it wasn't his fault. And later he admitted that he wasn't sorry about what he'd done, just sorry about how it made him feel. If killing someone who'd been like family to him wasn't enough to make him consider that he might be wrong, bring him to the contemplation stage as you call it, then what will?

Hard agree. The whole point of the third BondSmith ideal is about owning up to mistakes. And Dalinar’s redemption portrays this perfectly. How can someone be redeemed or forgiven if they don’t admit they’ve done something wrong in the first place?

Dalinar’s years of alcoholism prove that he regretted what happened at the rift. He was horrified at the death that he caused, and even on that day he acknowledged that they’d gone too far. If and when Moash manages to say something similar, his deserving of redemption might change. Yes, Gavilar’s death is what shocked Dalinar into pursuing the Night Watcher, but he still made that choice of his own volition. He wanted to change. Does Moash? I don’t consider Szeth honorable for adhering to the rules of a Truthless. I posted a poll a while back about that very topic. But at the same, he was doing what he believed was right as he perceived it based on his culture. And different cultures have different values. And as far as Dalinar’s motivations go, he was influenced as much by the Thrill as anything else, and much of what he did was for uniting a kingdom. He can’t bear sole blame for what he did. Or if you’re talking about the Rift in particular, they had rebelled, betrayed, and tried to kill him first. Terrible as it was, they were a city in rebellion. Some sort of response was warranted. Moash, on the other hand, cares about no one but himself. He killed Elhokar and Rashone for revenge, which served no one but himself. He tried to use duty to the kingdom to justify it to Kaladin, but it was all about revenge. And to get it, he threw away the people that had accepted him as a brother, one of whom gave him treasures worth kingdoms. And after his first attempt to kill Elhokar (which he said he had a right to do) instead of acknowledging how terrible his actions were, he blamed everyone else. Beyond that, he’s killed people, on mere whim, thinking they were better off dead. Dalinar’s and Szeth both regret their actions. Redemption requires remorse and atonement. Moash is demonized because he is a traitor twice over (by his own admission) and never been sorry. The circumstances of someone’s actions matter, or every soldier on a battlefield that’s ever killed an enemy would be a murderer. You can’t use a cookie cutter approach that every act can be judged the same way. That’s addressed in one of the conversations between Dalinar’s and Tarravangian. Again, Szeth believed he had no choice. I agree with Kaladin that he always had a choice, but Szeth makes it clear many times that he has no desire to hurt anyone. Moash killed for revenge, abandoning people who considered him to be family. He killed for stupid and selfish reasons. Besides, what’s more terrible killing strangers or killing family? Kaladin’s oath is about protecting people whether he likes them or not. As he himself notes, if he only protects people he likes, he only cares about what’s convenient for him. That’s not protecting, it’s selfish. Moash’s reasons have nothing to do with what is right. It’s about doing what he wants, making himself feel better, no matter who gets in his way. Even that person is a brother who helped pull him out of Damnation and gave him priceless treasures. Killing for revenge is always wrong. It’s selfish and shortsighted. It twists a person until they’re something they’re not. As it almost does to Kaladin. Beyond that, for all we know, Moash’s grandparents died of natural causes in prison. We have no proof that they would have lived if they hadn’t been thrown in prison. We also don’t know that they were innocent of the crime they were accused of. They shouldn’t have been thrown in jail before anything was proven, but there’s no proof that they were innocent.

Szeth did all of that hating himself, and wanting to stop, but kept going because he believed he was honor bound to continue. I think he was wrong either way, but there’s a big difference between that and someone throwing everyone away and killing people for revenge or on a whim. Dalinar was a terrible person earlier on his life, but even at his absolute worse at the Rift, even justified while fighting against a rebelling city, he never intended to wipe out Rathalass completely. He tried to stop Sadeas from burning it all to the ground, but lost control of the situation. He comes right up to the edge of being unforgivable, but I don’t think he crosses it. And while Dalinar acknowledges what he did and is trying to do better, Moash refuses to do so, no matter what happens. When he arrived in Revalar, after fleeing the warcamps, all he did was rationalize his previous choices.

That’s the point. If Preservation and Ruin truly balanced each other perfectly, their intents cancel each other out. The problem is maintaining that balance, which Sazed has struggled with from the start. And he is starting to lose control over. I only hope it can be stopped before things go too far, or can be fixed afterward. Besides, what about Honor?

I agree with that. I don't think breaking the deadlock is such a good idea, unless they can be sure it's done in a positive way. Having a stable, neutral Shard could be a very positive thing in the cosmere. Autonomy took action because she perceived Harmony and Scadrial as a threat, not because she thought Sazed would turn into something that would be a threat. I hope Sazed doesn't become Discord, but it's the threat of it happening and finding a solution that ends up being the next major plot in MistBorn era 3.

In Kelsier's epilogue, he and Sazed discuss whether or not Sazed should lead the people of Scadrial to a technological revolution. Sazed states that it's better for the people to discover things on their own. Kelsier counters the conflict wouldn't have happened if the people of Scadrial had been more advanced. Sazed has admitted previously that he thinks he's made things to easy for the people of the Basin, and that's why they haven't advanced as much as he'd expected. But if he'd given them the technology, they wouldn't need to discover it. Who's beliefs are more valid? Personally, I think Sazed's opinion is more valid. This resonates with several other fictional sources I'm fond of, and I think it's true. In Stormlight Archives, Dalinar discusses with one of his ardents the value of growing stronger through adversity, both as an individual and as a people. And the two discussions resonate, I think. Beyond that, the concept of people valuing things they've earned over what they've been given is something that's often explored in literature and other media. And that appreciation affects how they treat whatever it is. Be it technology, peace, or even financial wealth. Right now, Sazed says he puts people where they need to be, but allows them to make their own decisions. That's not a bad approach, all things considered. Perhaps Sazed could help nudge people in the right direction a little, but just giving the secrets away seems unwise. Hand outs are dangerous, because people can start to rely on them very easily, and because once it happens a first time, it's much harder to argue against doing it a second time. Teach a man to fish, and all that.

Agreed. Kelsier would either use it to build an army of Mistborn or just turn everyone on Scadrial into Mistborn. Either way, that much power is dangerous. I think he was correct to conceal that information.

Sazed's changes are definitely the most unsettling thing in my opinion. Considering what it took to balance out Preservation and Ruin in the first place, I thought/hoped that the conflict there was done. But on the other hand, it makes sense that an imbalance is starting to happen, if the people of Scadrial are still slightly more Preservation than of Ruin. Honestly, I was kind of ok with at least one Shard playing something of a neutral force, or one that can only act in extreme cases. I wanted the conflict between Preservation and Ruin (externally or internally within Harmony) to be over. Given the exchange of letters between Harmony and Wit/Hoid, I was hoping Sazed would be the stable rallying point against Odium or other threatening Shards in the future. Maybe he still can be, if he manages to overcome his pending predicament.

I'm mostly unsettled by Todium by the fact that he managed to get the better of Hoid. I don't much like Hoid's character, in fact I think he'll be an enemy in the future, but the fact remains that he has always been a step ahead of everyone else. Kelsier, Rayse, Harmony, other shards, it doesn't matter. He's managed to get around all of them. This is really the first time anyone beat him. People have surprised him before, like when Shallan hugged him, but no one ever really got the better of him before this. Clearly, that's Sanderson's way of showing exactly how dangerous the combination of Tarravangian with the Shard of Odium is, which is what makes the combination so unsettling. Odium never felt as frightening as Ruin did, for example, but that was largely because we didn't understand what Ruin was, and the Radiant's existed on Roshar. Now, we're in completely unfamiliar territory with an even more crafty Father of Hatred. I think Odium will be permanently bound after book 5, and I have my own theory as to how it will happen, so I think it was a good plot twist overall, making for an interesting cliff hanger. I've see this sort of thing done before, switching up the expected final boss just before the big ending. And if the final confrontation is done well, it can be great. Considering the buildup of Tarravangian and Dalinar as parallels to each other, with their differing response to the looming threat of Odium, I think the book 5 will be good with Todium as the big bad of the first half of the series.

I don't think that's a combination power, I think that's part of the surge of Adhesion.

Then why is it that no dead-eyes existed before the Recreance? Considering what Shallan did to Testament when she was a child and what Kaladin almost did to Syl, it makes no logical sense to assume that no radiant, not one, across thousands of years broke their oaths. Even if only by accident. True, there is no known case of this happening. But to consider that it never happened once before the Recreance when we've seen it happen after the Recreance happened makes no sense. The point I'm trying to make is that it's the combination of the wound to Roshar from Bah-Ado-Mishram's imprisonment and the ending of the orders that damaged the Spren enough to turn them into dead-eyes. It's conjecture, true, but logical, based on when we know dead-eyes first existed.