LewsTherinTelescope

True. That's what I mean. What happens if a neutral force kills the champion and a new one thus can't be picked in time?

Oh yeah, Compounding would definitely be very necessary for any of this, I think.

would rule out the possibility of keeping the other side's champion from showing up (even indirectly) or provoking someone on other side to harm the champion. He did say he'd hold to the spirit of the deal. With Taravangian, I'm less certain. Agreed, I did genuinely believe Rayse's "spirit of the deal" thing (mainly for the meta reason that it lets Brandon handwave away all the loopholes like "marry the entire world", lol). With T, he very clearly is looking for a loophole, so I don't know that that holds him. Hmm, yeah, I'd think it would. Question is, why? And what about neutral factions? Let's say for some reason Thude assassinates Dalinar or something. What happens?

I think Dalinar willingly breaking the contract is unlikely, but T tricking him into it feels possible to me (though I'm still not sure if I'd call it likely or not). For example, indirectly keeping the champion from showing up, not directly harming them but maybe trapping them, or putting someone they love at risk (for an example I don't consider particularly likely, holding Lirin hostage if Kal is the champion). Another possibility could be Odium's champion goading someone on Dalinar's side into attacking them (another example I do not believe but have seen proposed, picking Moash and then goading Gav into killing him and breaking the contract). Actually, thought on the latter: if Odium's champion goes on a murder rampage inside the Tower shortly before the duel, would someone fighting back count as harming them and breaking the agreement? These all feel too anticlimactic, though.

Been doing some thinking recently on what the difference between black and grey/white is. In the process, I ran across WoBs where Brandon says that an object being Invested is similar to a supersaturated solution. I will admit my knowledge of what this means is pretty much just from looking up what this means for ten minutes on YouTube, but to my understanding, this refers to like a sort of extra dissolved solute beyond what the solution ordinarily can hold? In that case, perhaps draining to grey and white involves draining off this excess from the spirit, while draining to black involves draining out the Investiture actually required to maintain the spiritweb of the object itself? This could also potentially be what a person having or not having "innate Investiture" means, as well as what lifesense detects. (This may also somehow tie into why extra Preservation was needed to give Scadrians sapience.) Something I didn't think about: spren cause the lichen on the Taldain sand to go white, which generally means kinetic Investiture. So perhaps the dagger mostly drains kinetic Investiture, but for a Herald, the kinetic Investiture of the CS is tied into the spiritweb, so draining it rips off some of the body's own spiritweb with it, leaving the blackened wound?

I do agree there then, yeah.

Eh, I don't think that WoB actually says anything. Brandon's a notorious troll, taking implications like that as confirmations is risky, I feel.

You could also just.... make sure it's made of a viable metal and store into it?

Brandon RAFOs crem all the time, lol, including things he has directly confirmed before in-book and out.

This is what I've thought, but it's rather odd if so that there's no Bondsmith equivalent in the Unmade.

Ah, I see. I wonder how atium and lerasium are in that department?

Oh okay, in that case I can definitely see it. What does the ettmetal do here? Edit: I see you explained it in the comment and I just didn't read carefully, my bad I'd probably suggest being a bit more specific to the magic system (ex. Awakened Blade, not just Nalthian Blade), since some planets have multiple magic systems (though admittedly I have no idea how an Allomantic Blade would work, and a Hemalurgic Blade sounds... messy... to make), but yeah.

I do think that it's somewhat complicated by the fact that Nightblood and Vivenna's Blade were presumably Awakened with a specific Command and Intent, but the fact that they drain color just like Awakening doesn't feel like a coincidence to me. Mist seems like something that would fit Scadrial, yeah. Not super sure if it'd do that or not (just because it's a lot more dramatic than the others we've seen besides Nightblood), but I can't think of anything else that ties into the planet thematically as well as the mists do.

Isn't the Iriali Oathgate in Rall Elorim, not Kasitor?

It makes sense to me that the exact effect can vary from place to place. For example, the eyes burning out is probably a mostly thematic thing due to how important eyes are on Roshar (Radiants, Regals, Fused, deadeyes, etc all have stuff going on with their eyes). Vivenna's Blade does seemingly behave similarly to Nightblood, however, just on a much less powerful level. Shameless self-promo: I have a theory on this stuff, which I'll probably do a revision of later today because I've had some thoughts on some of the parts I was super confused on in the original theory.

Otoh, Ruin somehow makes atium that grants futuresight despite having horrid futuresight himself, so I'm not sure how much I think that's related. Definitely disagree. Imo, the reason for making nine Fused is simply because he didn't want to give any Fused power over Connection that they could use to free themselves. So he makes up some crap about how Adhesion is fake news and he can't do it, the Fused somehow buy it, and suddenly the inhabitants of Braize only believe in nine Surges, so the planet becomes nine-based rather than ten-based. As for the Unmade, I'm not really sure, because somehow Mishram sounds suspiciously like a Bondsmith spren and yet there's apparently no Bondsmith equivalent for the Unmade. Maybe. Otoh, most of the other colors definitely look noticeably more purple and/or red to me, the Windrunners with their specific shade on the Surgebinding chart are just kind of hard to add much red or purple to while keeping it blue. (I mean, on the Surgebinding chart it already looks slightly purple to me, though definitely a lot more blue, and the Voidbinding chart icon is a very blue purple.) Wasn't the entire theme of RoW Honor + Odium working together, to the point it's literally named after the combined rhythm they produce? I think it's certainly possible it's O+C, with how little we know on it, but I don't buy the specific argument in this paragraph. I think it's an interesting theory. Not sure yet what I think Voidbinding actually is, tbh. It would make some sense for there to be C+O and H+O combos, though. One thing I'd note: if you look at the top and bottom of the center gem, it has blue, green, and purple light coming off of it. A theory I've liked is that it's a "cousin" because just as the Old Magic is generally just the Nightwatcher doing crem, Voidbinding is usually just the Unmade doing crem. We know Voidbinding usually originates with the Unmade, and the mention of Raboniel using the Surge of Transformation to unmake the Sibling is pretty suspicious with Sja-anat specifically comparing her "enlightening" spren to — you guessed it — the Surge of Transformation.

I think it's probably possible, but I'm not sure if it'd be automatic or not. Atium plays kind of weirdly with some of these rules. But imo, theoretically it should. Atium's oddities might tie into whatever the heck "must be refined" is referring to on the Hemalurgic table?

Tbf, he does say "...but it's gonna take a roundabout method to make it happen...", so it's possible that could refer to that. (On the other hand, there are other things it could mean, so it's not a confirmation by any stretch.) @BenduLuke Brandon's mentioned that godmetals pierce the Realms a bit. Presumably that's why. You cut the person Physically, and the sword passes through their other aspects too. (That's my theory on it, anyway.)

Edit: oops, just realized this topic is months old, lol. Was clicking through "next unread topic" and didn't really pay attention to dates. Assumptions going in: the two sides start out with an approximately equal, decent amount of "juice", good knowledge of the capabilities of the opponent, and probably an open area with a decent amount of metal embedded in the ground for whatever reason to Push off of. Changing any of these factors can tilt the fight much more towards one or the other. Edgedancer, mainly due to healing, since neither of them have active abilities likely to directly grant them the win. Abrasion could help, as well, though more minorly than the powers of some of the other orders. Probably Windrunner, healing + the ability to stick them to the ground, a wall, etc, feels very handy, as well as the ability to, say, attract a ton of nearby rocks to their forehead or something with a Reverse Lashing. It's likely to be a decent contest, though, and I could envision scenarios where the Thug wins. Windrunner, I'd say. Healing, Shardblade, and better flight are all pretty big advantages. A large city with lots of hiding places, skyscrapers to maneuver with, etc could give the Mistborn a way to get a moment and plan, and try out some emotional Allomancy. This could give them more of a chance, but I'd ultimately still give it to the Windrunner, after a very drawn-out fight. But this is by no means certain, and the Mistborn could win. Conversely, setting it in an area without much metal would force the Mistborn to use up their ammo trying to move and avoid getting Shardspeared, and I think in the long run they don't stand much of a shot. Probably the Mistborn, due to atium. The Windrunner would last for a bit if they were careful, but ultimately atium will likely give the Mistborn a needed edge. Setting this in the city environment from the previous one would send it the Mistborn's way hard, with atium. Setting this in the metaless field would give the Windrunner an okay chance, but I would still put the Mistborn at more likely to win by a decent amount. Hm. I think this would be a toss-up. If I had to say, I'd go Windrunner, due to Plate. Atium makes this a very hard one to be sure of, but ultimately, a Mistborn can't do much against Shardplate or a Shardblade (using duralumin, you can shove it away, but that's really a one-time trick in most cases, and they can simply resummon it instantly). The Mistborn could draw it out a very long time, though, and may be able to win by wearing down the Radiant's Light or with a "lucky" shot using atium, and can use time bubbles to be able to plan. City environment, probably Mistborn. Metaless field, probably Windrunner. Neither of those settings are guaranteed wins for either, however, due to the advantages of Plate for the Radiant and atium for the Mistborn, compared to scenario 3.

I definitely do not agree there. We know creating the Dawnshards would require this understanding, but I don't think using a pre-existing one would. In fact, I think this is likely their greatest weakness: they can be used to do incredible things, but at a certain point, anyone below Adonalsium simply doesn't have the capacity to understand the full ramifications of their actions (even Shards suffer from this, but they at least have an expanded mind with their power to learn and grow in skill very quickly). For example (not something I actually believe happened), let's say one wanted to add oaths to spren bonds. Oops, most Rosharan life depends on those, you just wiped them all out because you messed with the nature of bonds in the Cosmere rather than more specifically focusing on truespren, because you didn't understand yet what all bonds are involved in! Or in this case, you decide to kill God but don't realize that you're going to give rise to sixteen deities completely overwhelmed by their Intents, twisted from who they once were and fighting and wreaking havoc and generally making life a living hell for a significant amount of people.

Hmm. I really want to know the timeline of that tbh. It would have to be really recent, unless the AU essays are a lot older than we think.

Interesting theory, and that line is definitely super suspicious. Khriss does seem to at least think it's actually her: But if the planet's shut off, it might be hard to tell (and I imagine a Shard probably can imitate the appearance of someone else). There should definitely be some drawback to avatars, and I think this would make a reasonable one. Even if Bavadin has access to the same infinite amount of power as normal, her mind's still limiting what she can directly control, and if the avatars are powerful enough.... I've seen the avatars similarly, as a way to extend their power indirectly, by having other minds control parts of it. So it seems logical that those minds can decide not to do what she wants, and if so, she's kind of screwed. And it certainly makes sense for people infused with the Intent of Autonomy.

Fair point.

Isn't that like.... the exact opposite of what Kaladin just dealt with and had to work past?

Interesting, thanks!