Furamirionind

This exact logic can be made against: Randuir, MrDoctor, SteelDancer, and Young Bard. In addition to anyone else who has been around as long as them, which I think STINK and Mark also qualify? and probably some others. Another reason (which I think Randuir pointed out) why they could be targeting semi-actives is to hide the active elims that are among us. They are not targeting inactives, so it isn't necessarily playing on hard mode, as they are still depriving us of of knowledge, roles, and votes each turn. As I learned earlier today that Bard is always an elim: Young Bard ...However, as I suspect Sart MUCH more than Bard: Young Bard, Sart Beyond Sart, I am still apprehensive of MrDoctor. Still not done with my final... Almost though...

I want Azorius!! (Yes, I am that player, and proud to be so) : P

It is a open book test at home. Don't worry, I can't get in trouble. Lol. I appreciate you caring though : ) ********* Done now. (Hopefully) Quick question that I think is relevent to the Gov (I am totally not obsessed about this topic...), how many active guilds do we have, and how many active homeless do we have (regardless of (lack of) guild alligiance? Not counting the DA as a relevent guild to the gov, we estimate 4 great guilds off the bat right? (TUBA, GBs, Theives, and a fourth I can't remember) I am currently trying to get an idea of specifically how this could work, using Mac's 2 branches idea. I think how the guilds pick their Reps should be an internal affair. Ideally, we want a system where there is still some work you have to do to get the gov position so that it is still rewarding, however a role of some sort will hopefully be common enough that everyone interested will get a chance to participate in one way or another.

Heh, That's the first thing we are doing when I become Chancellor. (just kidding, pls don't use this in a campaign against me... O.o) I like how I have infiltrated all the planning docs with talk of the republic-government. Actually, I probably shouldn't be as it makes it more difficult to talk about... so on and so forth. I think the correct doc to talk about it is the Dawn of a New Era thread, so I will be trying to contain my thoughts on the republic to there... for now... : )

I like the idea, but I don't want to say we should enact it until we actually clarify some things with it and make sure we all know what we are enacting. (also with a "republic" being tied for 3-4th place as far as systems go, we should really redo that vote before deciding. Perhaps people really do want "Democracy - Rule by the mob". I don't, put perhaps most do.) I am in the middle of taking a final right now... But afterwards, I will be available to talk more. : )

Oh, yeah. I stated in an earlier post that if the Precursors were to work with the Gov, it should be expected that the Gov would have some restrictions on them to make sure they didn't make the wrong judgements (according to what the Gov considers wrong). I still stand by that idea.

I was suggesting not allowing it to become a great guild, not that it should be on the side... anyway, I think that would be really rude of me to say particularly in a FFRP. So I am still not dead to you, right? : ) I don't think anyone has an issue with you making rules for your own city, I just think most people are focusing primarily on what the gov is going to look/work like. Partially because it is a new/cool/fun thing to play with. : )

I don't think anyone is ignoring you, but I don't expect the Precursors to be the government, as that would be an opportunity for RP squandered. They would either be a subset of it or be contracted by it. Therefore to truly address your guild, we must first understand what the government is. Remember that Law enforcers are useless if we don't have laws, and you NEVER entrust law enforcers to make laws as it would be a conflict of interest. (this is not a thing about law enforcers, just pointing out it would be a conflict of interest) That's why I suggested we limit that guild to permanently be a minor one.

I apologize, it seems we were thinking along the same lines most of this time, I just failed to understand that.

I volunteer to sever all ties and be a benevolent dictator monarch. Philosophers agree that a benevolent dictator Monarch is the best system for government. : )

The Elims name the creatures, so we have one with a sense of humor. There is my analysis for now. : P I have homework to do.

You are both right in your amendments to my proposal, however, I admit I am really ticked off right now. So I may be being a little (a lot) too harsh on DA members right now. I am going to take a break from this, and come back when I am calmer.

You are a genius... I wish I thought of that.

Fair enough. : / Ok, then my proposal is this: The DA gets no say in the gov, like what Karn said. Any RPer who identifies primarily with the DA (their vote would be be with the DA), doesn't get to participate in the gov with a role of any kind. It isn't fair though that an entire group of people can just ignore laws because "they can". That should never be a good reason in... anything ever. Individual DA members should still be held accountable for their actions if they are ever caught. The gov can't go after the DA as a whole because they are too powerful, but individuals are still held accountable. Just like TUBA and the GBs will be. Laws may be occasionally targeted against the DA, but as they apparently have so much power, I don't see why they would care anyway. There will of course be a faction of the gov who don't want to take action against the DA though as they are scared.

Umm well... Oops : / I think what classifies a great guild/normal guild/and guild allowed in the legislature would need to be tuned OOC after a couple tests, but I like this idea. It still puts most of the power behind the great guilds as they get their own section, but still grant pretty significant power to the minor guilds. Perhaps the great guilds could even have 2 reps, one for each branch while the minor ones only get to be in one branch. This may be too much power to the major guilds though. I need to diagram this... : ) (I love lists too : ) ) I would LOVE for us to develop a bunch of special roles, rules, and commitees... However I am just a bit concerned there aren't enough active players to do all this. I hear there are 28 active at the moment? but most of them are probably spaced between the great guilds...

This is what I thought the DA was... With the GBs being like a middle ground between the DA and TUBA... ... Well... I don't know how to respond to this. This sounds to me like a problem with the allyverse that this was allowed to happen. If we are saying that the DA has basically unlimited power, what is the point of RPing against them? What is even the point of having a non-DA opinion about anything? why try? this removes a LOT of RP possibilities... And fun in general. It is one thing to try to have an over powered group that will be hard to control, but could take a lot of unlikely events happening (like the entire allyverse uniting against them), but it is completely another to say they are practically unstoppable. This seriously discourages me with the potential future of the Allyverse. If you have a group that can only gain power, they may as well already rule world. I appreciate you trying to work in the overpowered DA AND have a gov and compromise, this could potentially work... but why are we leaving a 100% abuse-able system in this world? Will it anger that many people that we can't just say after the time skip they are now equal power to the rest of the world or something. This seriously ticks me off, as I don't see much point of RPing if an entire group of people have infinite power, and being ok with using it. 1-2 people maybe. If the DA has infinite power, there should be NO PCs in it. It should be 100% NPCs. This just... This just... i don't know.

What about me? I am not in the DA, yet am a lawyer! (source: LawyersRUs inc.) The my proposal for gov isn't flushed out, but according to what I have (the 3 rep idea), only the Chancellor can draft laws, so if a member of the DA is Chancellor, then they have no risk of a law like that being passed, because it will never be created. Assuming TUBA's rep is Chancellor, a law like that will likely be drafted, but the DA just needs to convince the BG to vote against it. How do they convince GB of that? Diplomacy, sacrifices, trade-offs and compromises. Remember to look at what each guild gains from this in addition to what they lose: TUBA - gains a non-combative way to try to restrain the DA DA - gains significant additional power over other guilds, due to currently having (I think) the most might. This allows them complete their goals with greater ease.

Umm, I think the gov may have some issues with people willingly accepting DA baked goods... : P

You feel like your view is outnumbered? I also feel like my view is outnumbered. lol : ). Perhaps that means we both have around the same support for each of our opinions? (partly I don't value my own opinion much because I am not active in this community yet, the more active people are, generally the more valued their opinion probably will be) I also 100% agree with the exceptions part. Points also cannot factor in most weaknesses either (we could create some generic ones, but it will be different for each character...). So if I made an OP character, but then said they run around in circles screaming at the slightest hint of a challenge... that is a pretty severe weakness, and might balance out pretty well. : )

By moving away from the PM, do you mean trying to use the thread more for guild discussion? I like the idea, but i think that with guilds possibly wanting to keep some stuff secret, we are going to be still doing mostly discussion in PMs. Definitely making it clear that guilds have PMs and threads could be nice. It would also help if we could keep the OP in a guild thread updated... but I understand this can be really difficult with roles changing, people taking breaks from the shard, etc. and I don't have an alternative for this...

Lol, that sounds fun. xD

I personally believe this accounts for the issues @Ookla the NotVoidus @Ark1002 and @Darth Woodrack propose, as the numbers still only matter if they become a problem. I personally am less fond of this because I like my analysis tools. (please give me all the things to analyse!!! ...) But perhaps I could just ask for the things... : ) This would also mean that this is probably not discussed in the new player thread, but perhaps I should stop pushing for that, as the disconnect between myself and the rest of people on this matter seems to be pretty significant.

I like that idea too. If we do go down the path of a republic, I would be willing to do a TON of research and development of a few different gov ideas with differing amounts of power split between individuals and guilds. The one I have mentioned so far is just a starting point. I want to do all that now, but I am still slightly concerned that people don't want a republic, and in that case all my time would be wasted... However I will be adamant about the fact that each RPer should only have 1 spot maximum in the government. That should be a hard and fast rule not subject to change by the government. This is just to prevent people from taking over and becoming dictator. That doesn't sound like fun to me, unless we intentionally set it up that way.

@Ookla the NotVoidus I agree with your point, having a point buy in system encourages min-maxing which we don't want. Instead, I would suggest we use points as a way to understand the power levels of our charecters. That way we can see our power level compared to everyone else. This would not be a buy system at all then, but an analysis tool. We could then also use this tool in duels to help decide a victor. The reason I suggest this, is because my current charecter (a zinc compiumder) should NEVER be able to defeat... say... helbent. Or probably most of anyone elses charecters. This system would just allow us to see this effect, rather than semi-guessing.

I really like this idea, but even if these people don't want to join a guild at all (even a neutral one), they can still try to reason with the government officials to try to get their opinions through court.