Meg

This is exactly what I wanted to say, I'm sorry for my bad wording. This is the theory I mentioned (it's from CheeseNinja). This is interesting but totally contrary to what I, too, wanted to say. Lift's Interlude takes place in Azir, not in Emul. IIRC Azir and Emul have the same roots (they both were Makabakam). My idea -- I apparently couldn't clarify -- is that Yaezir == Jezrien. If I would be right, then why is Jezrien once the "king of Heralds" and then the "Herald of kings"? Spinning this idea further, I thought that every Herald might be a "Herald of ???". But what would "???" be? I hope this is a bit less confusing than the OP.

I might be nitpicking again, but that thought just came up in my brain and I wanted to throw it out because I don't wanted it to be forgotten. So this is quick and shortcut, sorry. From the Prelude to The Way of Kings: In Baxil's Interlude he thinks: It's been theorized that the "Prime Kadasix" is the Emuli description for Jezrien, which -- compared to the first quote -- seems logical (Prime of the Kadasix aka King of the Heralds). But then: Jezrien (king of the Heralds) seems to be seen as the "Herald of kings". Is this only another wording due to a presumably other language (than Alethi) or another religion? Or does this imply that all Heralds have their part of people they are "Heralds of ..."?

Thanks Gloom, for providing that quote. I'm still curious to get that comment. I couldn't find it myself.

If there is nothing I've missed earlier there's one confirmation from BS about "spren" and "Splinters": So Mr. Sanderson more or less outright says that Honorspren are Splinters. The question was about Honorspren and not about all spren. It was said lately that there are different kinds of spren -- not only from which Shard they might derive. It seems clear that not any and every spren lurking around on Roshar is a "bondable" spren. There are spren that are of Honor, some of Cultivation and some of both (and there at least a long time ago there were some of Adonalsium). Though I normally try to give references, I'm much too tired to search around now. A last short note: I don't know how Seons were made. And I don't know whether the one part of them (the Aons) or the other (there must be something) does their "work" voluntary. Wyndle, too, got a task. He himself didn't choose Lift. Syl, I think, instinctively searched for a new bond-partner and I don't think she took the first she found. She followed Kaladin and I'm quite sure, if he would have behaved in another way, she would have left again. Sorry, I don't think so as for the above mentioned reasons.

As I said already, I'm sure she doesn't "make Stormlight from food". There is a step between "food" and "Stormlight".

Such a short theory, Kurk. I'm with you here (as far as I understand the forms/ideas/concepts-thing).

I'm sorry to be a nitpicker. 1. Not the Seons are Splinters, the Aons inside the Seons are the Splinters. 2. Can you give the reference where he said that the Heralds "were created by Honor in a similar way to spren"? 3. As long as we don't have any evidence for this speculation I'd say: I don't believe this. Sure, something happened to the ten people who became the Heralds. Part of their deal with Honor was that they were granted Immortality (for the purpose of not dying by age; they can be killed, and if that happens they must return to Damnation). In my understanding it's more likely that Honor provided his ten Heralds with kind of a "Tanavast"-bead, that rewrote their sDNA. Apparently the Honorblades are not the reason for their immortality (otherwise they wouldn't be around in TWoK). BS outright said: Then there's that about Splinters and Slivers: WoB is that the Divine Breath is a Splinter of Endowment. So: Not the Returned is a Splinter.

Where has BS stated that Hemalurgy is evil? In relation to the Mistborn Adventure Game (I only found one such quote on tvtropes.org, and that doesn't seem earnest nor canonical to me)? The Ars Arcanum of AoL is contradicting this "Hemalurgy is evil"-sentence:

If Darkness is Nalan, why shouldn't he wield his Honorblade? The Heralds themselves know where they left their Honorblades and -- feeling the advent of a Desolation (oh, not "a" Desolation, the True Desolation, the Everstorm) -- they (or some of them) might have felt the need (to try) to avert the world's ending.

Kaladin whispered. Why should those Words be spoken loud? To be heard by ... whom? I'm quite sure the source of the voice Kaladin "heard" in his mind, would have "heard" him saying the Second Ideal only in mind, too. Again, I'm sure it's about realizing the Ideals, not speaking them. After he found the Second Ideal for himself his access to Stormlight increased, which was visible, yes. So there is a visible "result" when she heals Gwax. Not that sensational as Kaladin's, but ...

I don't know how Mr. Sanderson thinks about making a movie (or series) of TWoK, but I totally hope it's not gonna be an animated cartoon or an anime or something like this. I cannot give a objective reasoning, it just feels absolutely wrong.

I wondered about this possibility, too. Over those thousands of years there could have been lots of Surgebinders. Ones that didn't realize what happened to them (or went crazy -- thinking of the cryptics), others that did realize there was something special about them, but not, what, ones that remembered and used their newly found powers, others who instinctively used their newly found powers. Some of them might have been hunted (at least after the Hierocracy), some of them could have been able to use their powers but hide it. Some might have founded organizations like the Envisagers, the Ghostblood or others. What do you all think? Agreed. Nohadon's sentence seems to imply that if other spren would be as discerning as honorspren, there wouldn't have been such a chaos, because Surgebinders not worthy of a spren-bond wouldn't get one.

I think there's no such parallel to Allomancers/Mistborn and their metals. First, as Argent said, her sDNA isn't right and she lacks the innate Investiture from Preservation (and Ruin) that all Scadrians possess. Then there's what Wyndle said about her using the excess and being left "underfed" and with "low body fat", what means that she needs to eat to recover "fat" to metabolize into Stormlight. There might be kind of a similarity or connection, though. The metals on Scadrial are the focus people need to use to access the Three Metallic Arts. In the Ars Arcanum of AoL is written, that If there's a connection, then the body fat would the focus, the catalyst, to access the Investiture (Stormlight???). Other then ingested metals, that only run out, she seems to be in danger to use herself "up".

I apologize, but I'm not with you here. Reading the Interlude I got the impression that Lift was on her way to discover the Second Ideal. There is Lift's discussion with Wyndle when he asked her, why she came with Tigzikk to the palace. I think she would have answered in another way than she did, when she already had discovered the Second Ideal. Also I think that the situation with Gwax was the first critical situation (Gwax was dying) since Wyndle joined her. I'd almost say the "coming Radiant" has to undergo a "traumatic" situation to come up with the Second Ideal (this kind of reminds me of the Scadrian Snapping). The talk when Lift and Wyndle found Gwax dying reinforces my impression, that she had not said the Second Ideal before. Thus I'm sure Lift "said" the Second Ideal before, which in turn lets me stay with me believing that the Immortal Words don't have to be spoken loud. Oh, it's confirmed that the Edgedancers are the Fourth Order? (You edited your post while I wrote this.) And another thought that only just came up: I think, Lift isn't (only) metabolizing food, not directly, she seems to metabolize her own reserves (which have to be restored by eating). Thus, I think, she has to learn to pace herself.

Uhm, please don't feel insulted, but when I read "Wyndel" my mind instantly changes it to "Windel". (Sorry, I couldn't withstand.) More seriously now: The First Ideal is the same for every (each?) Order (see Immortal Words). And apparently it's not necessary that the upcoming KR discovers the First Ideal themselves (Kaladin was told by Teft). As about the First Ideal see above. But yes, I'm sure she said the Second Ideal of the Edgedancers. Ooops (Second Ideal) Do we already have evidence that Darkness == Nalan? I, too, think if Darkness is a Herald, he's Nalan, but it might be that Darkness is someone from Nalan's Order (or somebody who himself or his "organization" (try to) live the life and Ideals of Nalan's Order). Anyways, he knows enough to determine that Lift is an Edgedancer. Ideals - Stormlight: I'm not sure more Ideals make the "Stormlight more effecient". I think, "leveling up" (for the lack of a better term) by discovering and saying the Second (Third ...) Ideal gives the coming Knights Radiant more possibilities to use the Stormlight and/or to use the Stormlight more efficient. Last said: I've been distracted for a longer time while writing this post, but I'll hit the send-button now; hopefully it's not totally obsolet.

Syl was around on Roshar for thousands of years, lost, unbound, stuck in the Physical Realm as a mere windspren, cut off her consciousness (which is in the Cognitive Realm), floating around, always (unconsciously) searching for someone to again bind with. (That sounds quite theatrically, bear with me. ) We only have information about Syl regarding this question: I see that the question was not exactly the one you, Deddinty, were throwing in, but the quote seems interesting anyways. So if the (bonded) spren recovered their personality, they still have wholes in their memories but they still can learn. I think there are more spren like Syl that (which?) got “lost” in the Physical Realm when the KR gave up their “KR-y-ness”. I also think that the bit of consciousness left in Syl forced her to look for a new bond-partner. Or may be it's kind of an instinct. Other than Syl there might be spren that never totally lost their connection to the Cognitive Realm. Like the truthspren (which BS lately called cryptics). Those spren seem to mostly stay (exist) in the Cognitive Realm and are able to “touch” the Physical Realm wittingly. (edit: This is contrary to your post, Shardlet.) And then there is Wyndle who was sent by 'the Ring'. He must have been (existed) totally in the Cognitive Realm, otherwise there wouldn't have been the need for a “transition”. Also I'm not sure if every ever bonded spren is to be bound again. Perhaps Wyndle (for example) is one that is "new to this job". Sorry for the messed posting, I've written it offline and even plain-text-pasting didn't heal all issues.

I'm to lazy to look through the stalking-forum, but here you find transcriptions of all not-steelhunt-readings.

I think Wyndle is a cultivationspren (deriving mostly from Cultivation) as for his 'alignement' to the Shards. Aside from that, I think, I'd say he's a growthspren (as was said before) or a "raising" spren (he wanted to be bound to an elderly gardener, and a gardener "raises" plants). If that word (raising) is wrong, please help me. Reading the above quote I remembered this: I don't know if that helps in any way here, but I wanted to throw it in. That line "So there has bin dissension among them ..." now seems to imply that there are kinds of 'ruling bodies' for others than only those spren like Wyndle. But this is another topic.

Might I ask: 1. "their physical form": "Form" within the meaning of ...? Aspect? Shape? Idea? Version? Body (flesh, blood, bones ...)? I think, you meant the latter. 2. Why should one -- a 'Shardholder' -- try to get rid of their physical bodies? If this was the perfect recipe for becoming a god, why didn't all those 'Shardholders' act this way? Thinking of Tanavast, Skai and Aona it doesn't seem to be the right way. I think that holding cosmerian ( ) power needs fully capable people and those exist of all three "aspects" and would be imbalanced and thus not able to hold that power (like, when Leras and Ati both were dead).

A little bit. And I'm not sure you're right, given that Shallan only sees her spren in her pictures and Elhokar in the mirror, I think there might be kind of an "imaging" for blind, but susceptible people.

I like your first three points, which make my brain work and speculate further (better not to write this down now ). BS said: I'm not sure if Honorblades act like Shardblades when taken up. I'd think they stay in their physical shape when taken by someone who is not himself or herself a Herald. "Use" doesn't necessarily imply that one can do more (thus summoning or releasing it) than bear or fight with it. And given that the Honorblades are not rusted away because of them being something very special, they would be similar deadly weapons like Shardblades. And there is a fundamental difference between Shardblades and Honorblades (at least in the days of TWoK): When a Shardbearer dies the Blade materializes, when a Herald dies, the Blade vanishes. Where I want to go: I see no evidence -- neither negating nor confirming -- regarding the question whether Honorblades and Heralds have another kind of bond than (modern) Shardbearers and their Shardblades, same for the question if someone "using" an Honorblade is granted the possibility to summon and release it. If I missed something about this questions I'd appreciate to get those information. I'm quite sure the Shattered Plains could be described as unnatural. edit: added spoiler tag, thanks for the reminder, Shardlet

Regarding Lyss: In the scene described in the reading it's obvious that Lyss is a woman: And if she reveals herself to Jasnah perhaps she also does to others hiring her. Or she passes herself off as a twixt when dealing with her orderer. I'm not sure if I believe she's still with Elhokar's wife. Anyways, she seems to be educated, she possesses a Shardblade and -- if she's still in Kholinar -- I think she must be able to use a spanreed (for giving information to Jasnah). Lyss is surely an interesting person.

For completeness: Here's the quote Argent meant:

I'd like to remind that there isn't a Cognitive Realm for each planet/Shardworld. I added the brackets because focusing on the word Shadesmar is ambiguous. Thanks for the WoB but I really, really would appreciate if sources were given, too. ---- When Vin entered the Well of Ascension, she didn't only remove her earring but her vials, too. If this was needed to be done, I don't know, but I wanted this point not to be overseen. The Well of Ascension, Chapter 58 Hopefully nobody is bothered about my remarks (hence they are not really ontopic with the theory discussed).

When I read that paragraph something felt wrong to me. So I've reread it a few times, and then I saw it: You compare Sazed with TLR and say that "both make you a Shard." I didn't understand Mistborn that way. In my understanding picking up the power at the Well of Ascension makes one a Sliver (not a Shard). When Sazed took up the powers of Preservation and Ruin both of them were mostly free, it were more or less the raw powers of both, that Sazed took up. The Well of Ascension however holds only a piece of Preservation (therefor it didn't grant becoming a Shard). If I'm wrong I'd appreciate a short explanation.