Meg

Veto Nitpicking is my job Back to topic: As I said above, I like the idea that Dalinar drew in Stormlight unwittingly. And it seems very possible to me that he 'used' Elhokar's gems. I try to show, why, giving some quotes in chronological order: Elhokar's (and Adolin's) Shardplates were cracked and leaked Stormlight. So if Dalinar unwittingly drew in Stormlight, he didn't have to do so from gems that were "hidden" and "secured" by Shardplate. In my opinion the idea that Dalinar drew in Stormlight unwittingly seems very likely. And given the circumstances he would never be a danger for another Shardbearer fighting near him. --------------------- edit and slightly offtopic: That's good, and I think everybody likes to know when she or he got something wrong. And there are posts in this forums that sound quite good and then it comes to light that they are only speculations or remnants of memories. ... Perhaps we all should hold in mind that also a good written/worded post — especially when it doesn't have references or quotes to hold the given ideas/speculations/theories — doesn't have to be valid, even if it carries conviction. PS: That was a general thing that itched me and isn't addressed to you, Darnam!

My thoughts are similar to Hoser's. I was under the impression that the Heralds are kind of immortal and if they die, they had to go back to Damnation. Hence we don't know if they must necessarily meet in Damnation we, too, don't know if they would return together (though I think so, because the Prelude implies that they must have met before joining the battle, otherwise they wouldn't had made up a meeting point for after the battle). That means I believe that the other nine Heralds are still alive. I don't believe they die and were reborn. If there is such a cycle on Roshar, they would stand out of it.

Bear with me, I don't understand you here. Did you make a joke? (I admit that I don't understand underlying tones in English. Not even with a given smiley. Sorry)

Shallan said that her father "proclaimed Helaran dead" (TWoK Chapter 8). This implies for my thinking that nobody -- perhaps not even Davar senior -- knows for sure if Helaran is dead or not. Somebody said it sounds to him like "He's dead for me." in a way that Davar sen. dismisses his son from the family. I like this possibility. Here's really a lot of room for speculation. About Luesh: Another possibility that he seemed to "work with" Shallan and her siblings, might be because he was given responsibility over the Soulcaster by the Ghostbloods and kind of feared punishment when they found out that the Soulcaster was broken. I think, if Helaran would have been the Shardbearer Kaladin killed, this would have been, too, kind of a failure by Luesh (who presumably was involved in giving Helaran a set of Shards by the Ghostbloods). If that would have been the case I think the Ghostbloods would have replaced Luesh earlier to ensure that their goals could be accomplished. I love speculating.

Sadeas revealed the broken gemstones: And about the broken gemstones: I think Jasnah indeed knows about the spren Shallan sees: Your idea is interesting and I'm with Gloom that Dalinar (like Kaladin in his beginnings) may have done this unwittingly (other than 'real' KR who -- I think -- exactly knew how and when and where to drain Stormlight from.

Yes, you're right: Your information is quite interesting, too. Now we're all curious about how Seons (and Skaze) were created, how the Splinters (the Aons) were "catched" inside the Seons, and who created them. Remembering Ashe for example, he seems so human. Hopefully those Seons aren't captured souls of people ... I'm babbling again. :/

not Slivers, Splinters ...

I see your point and apologize for my straggling.

I did a (very) quick search through Elantris and found nothing that Ashe tried to contact Ien. He only talked to other Seons in Kae which didn't want to talk about Ien (probably because they knew what happened to Raoden and Ien and didn't want or mustn't talk about it; otherwise the lie about Raoden's death would have been blown (or busted, don't really know which word is the right one), and the Seons are said to be very loyal so they wouldn't work against their owners wishes). If Ashe tried to contact Ien I could imagine that didn't find him (so to say, couldn't "ping" Ien because Ien's "IP" was destroyed). I don't think Ashe feels as if Ien were dead, more that he couldn't reach him as if he didn't ever exist. Raoden mentions that the Seons of Elantrians go mad and that he thinks Ien's aon isn't complete, it has cracks (that's what I mean when I said Ien's "IP" is destroyed).[*] Raoden also mentioned that sometimes the Seons die if their masters were taken by the Shaod. May be if Ien would have died, Ashe would have felt it. edit: [*] I just found that quote (not really helpful but related to my ideas):

Sorry for double posting, but it's intentional. Rereading the following part I think the wording isn't clear and I wasn't able to express what I wanted to say: I think an example for a "dead spirit" might be Tindwyl (or Vin and Elend), who know exists somewhere, where not even Harmony can reach her. Kelsier however exists where Harmony is, too. I'm under the impression that this "plane of existence" isn't Shadesmar but the Spiritual Realm and that in this "state of existence" people don't have a conscience/mind. Given that Kelsier is a Sliver, the "being a Sliver" doesn't necessarily require a living physical body, but only the mastery of ones conscience/mind. Another thought are soul stamps. Perhaps they could be used in a way that is implied in this thread. Hopefully it's better said now. I'd appreciate any answers and help.

I'm curious about that deleted chapter, so I dare play "thread necromanting" and hope it would be added to the library. Thank you in advance.

@Kadrok I vote for Bela! No, sincere, you're right. Because of those possibilities I wrote "might imply" (what I thought to be the right words). @Shardlet "This is a kind of chicken or the egg thing." That's right. As it would be helpful to get more concrete definitions for some terms we use (and sometimes mix). Edit: Another question came up in my mind: Did/do "Splinters" of Adonalsium (from when it was still whole) exist? Edit2: Hoid also has the Moon Scepter. I really don't have any idea what this scepter is for or if this is/contains the power of a Shard (which? Devotion?) too.

Hey ddleg, might I guess that you've read The Way of Kings only one time yet? There are some clues in the book: In Chapter 45, when Shallan fled to her rooms, she was terrified enough to think about weapons. There is a huge clue to be found. And there's confirmation by Brandon Sanderson: That Honor "is" the Almighty is told in TWoK, Chapter 75, the last vision Dalinar has. Honor and Cultivation are different Shards on Roshar but only Honor is the Almighty. Here helps Chapter 52, the Dalinar's vision at Feverstone Keep. You might see the difference between the descriptions of the Shardplates from the vision and the event you refer to. I intentionally didn't give all quotes and instead mostly hints because I think it's more interesting for you to find out more now than only to get some quotes. I also suggest to have a look at the Coppermind Wiki and the WoT Interview Search (where a lot of tidbits from interviews are to be found). edit: now it took me 30 minutes to post this and there are answers now, but I'll keep the post anyways.

Hey SirScott Don't feel bothered please, I'd like to point at two typos: It's not lerastrium but lerasium and it's the Tears of Edgli (not Edji). I personally prefer to refer not to the "body" of a Shard (for me this implies being an animal or a human) but as the "power" of a Shard. As you said there are three forms of power: physical, liquid and vaporous. I've emphasized the most important part. If Edgli is Endowment's name was already asked (and RAFOd): And, please, I really don't want to bother, but there's another confusion: You said, that Hoid whispered to Kaladin about the Aimians. It wasn't Kaladin, Hoid spoke to Dalinar (this was a few paragraphs after he also mentioned "Adonalsium"), to be found in TWoK Chapter 54. The idea Hoid's gathering pieces from all Shards to possibly try to rebuild Adonalsium was mentioned a few times here on the forums. Also the possible support by Hoid's words in Chapter 54. I dare to not give links because the forum search is hating me absolutely. This post is to clarify some things and is not written to insult you.

. . Here it is: The part in brackets seems to fit with you here: This quote might imply that Hoid wasn't the original holder of Adonalsium. And: Would he still live if his power was Shattered? Skai, Honor and (forgot the name) died when their power (Devotion, Dominion and Honor) were Splintered (or Shattered).

Such an interesting idea and I have to work. My first ideas: The beads are "condensed essences" of their Shard (says the wiki); I'd have them called "pieces of the physical manifestations" of their Shards, but that might be the same. The beads are neither Splinters nor Slivers. The Divine Breath is a Splinter of Endowment. No . If anything it would be the Aons inside the Seons and Skazes. Those Aons are Splinters of Devotion. Where I want to go: I don't think a mixture of essences/Splinters/Slivers will serve to form a Splinter of Adonalsium if this is even possible. Therefrom results a new question in my mind: Why had Adonalsium been Shattered in its different Intents and not in Shards of all containing a mixture of the original?

Kind of as you can read here.

TLR did not use a bead of lerasium to become an Allomancer. (Yes, I'm glad that I was right.)

You might remember that scene: Jasnah, too, spoke about them: The Voidbringers "steal hearts" respectively the "dwelled in the hearts of men." Both quotes can be read like they "could possess the body of a man." "Possessing a man's body", isn't that what Ruin does with his Inquisitors resp. everybody he put spikes in? Those descriptions given in The Hero of Ages, Chapter 42, seem to exactly tell how to place a dead soul in another body. Putting "a dead soul in another body" would be my explanation for "possessing a strange body." @ the Elantris example: empazises mine I've reread that part and also looked for where this: "he looked into Dilaf's eyes he found a Svrakiss looking back at him." comes from. That above quote is part of discussion between Hrathen and Dilaf in Elantris Chapter 6. Because I can't find anything about Hrathen looking in Dilaf's eyes and seeing a Svrakiss looking back in this part, I continued searching and was successful in Chapter 51, when Hrathen was under the impression that Dilaf wouldn't be a man but a svrakiss. I'm sorry, Isomere, but 1. your conclusion that Hrathen sees a Svrakiss looking back from Dilaf's eyes, isn't told in Elantris; the sentence is a description of Hrathen's feelings at that moment, not a statement, 2. the quote you gave isn't in the same context as the quote about Hrathen's feelings (see 1), as for your quote comes from Chapter 6 and the other scene is from Chapter 51. Hopefully I haven't overlooked something important. So my upshot is that the Svrakiss =|= the Voidbringers. Edit, because I lost track while writing the above first part (that I don't change now): I'm quite sure that "a dead spirit" is dead. A dead soul can't do anything, except gaining a power like that of a Shard (i.e.: Kelsier after Leras death in HoA). I think, Ruin's ability with spikes means too, that the souls of the victims aren't really dead, but kind of conserved in the spikes until the spike is given to its receiver. Also I think, that a dead soul wouldn't help controlling the body of a Shardholder, if anything there would have to be a power like Ruin's to stand behind that. Also it seems to me that the power of a Shard would leave the dead body of a Shardholder immediatly when the Shardholder dies and there wouldn't be a mind/conscience to control it. If I understand it right Aona and Skai (as well as Tanavast) died because of the Splintering of the Shards they held. Is this understandable? Edit 2 (again an add, no changes in the text above): @ The left hand of the woman's image: I always imagined that it's covered with a long sleeve as it's "common" for (not all, but I think a good part) of the Rosharan women.

As FireArcadia wrote: no Aside from Mr. Ahlstrom's information: I'm not really sad that I will buy the original book again . This cover seems very similar to the cover of Part two of TWoK in the UK-edition. Some small differences: The man looks older (it can't be Kaladin, he mustn't look like that). The spear has not a crystal/gem at one end (with this gem, it looks more like a shardspear would do) and the blade is a bit different. And: On the cover of Part two one don't see that the person has feet like a frog. Sorry, I couldn't withstand the itch to post this, though we already know that the cover gives no spoiler.

Ha Windy, I just wanted to add that question. I just would have asked whether TLR became Mistborn by ingesting a bead of lerasium (or by using the power of the Well of Ascension). Uhm, he "gained super Allomancy" means "he became Mistborn"?

Yes, I mean shortsighted. Dict.cc told me "myopes" when I asked. The new site, as I said before, is mostly much, much better to read than the mysterious old site (yes it had an own flair). I hadn't had the experience with flatter stuff yet (fortunately), but everywhere where is a not-uni-colored background, I have problems. As for the font: In Opera it's shown as arial, in Firefox it's something else.

ad (1) I think this is clear. ad (2) I fail to read the Epigraphs this way, eventually caused by not totally understanding them. Might you or someone else quote the exact part? ad (3) You mean, Harmony would have included this fact in his writing? Or do you mean, he would have stated that he, too, is a Mistborn now? I'm not sure whether a bath could take the same effect as ingesting but I'm with you about the problems in terminolgy. That Vin didn't get a "power up" might have some reasons: -- She already was an "unusually skilled" Mistborn as Sazed states in the Epigraph to the Epilogue of HoA. He thinks she might have drawn on the mists in her earlier live, that enhancing her abilities. -- She took the power of the Well but didn't use it; she let it go. -- The "enhancement" of Allomantic powers -- as far as I remember -- only were gained through Hemalurgic spikes (and she already had one and one enhancement). I think you don't mean the current thread, because my question is, how many beads existed. As for I tried the search before creating that thread and didn't come up with a result, I beg you to give me the link to that thread you talk about.

Thank you for your help and thoughts. I'll try to pin down some points here (and hopefully nobody feels bothered). 1. We know that it's been 1,024 years, and that "TLR befuddeled the timespan." 2. I think, yes, it seems TLR only took the power of the Well once. 3. Thanks for your quotes, Kadrok. That's interesting. Given the rest of your quote, this could mean that TLR was the first "protector" who took the power of the Well. This could mean that the imprisonment of Ruin might have happened 1,024 years before TLR's ascension. It could, too, mean that the protector prior to TLR failed in surviving the whole timespan. But my gut says that the first possibility seems more likely. So the Terris Prophecies would have been made by Preservation around 2,048 years before the Ascension of TLR (what would fit "way before Alendi's time"). But I straggle. 4. As a side note: In the meantime we know that Slowswift is an homage (I hope that's the right word) to "Grandpa Tolkien" (HoA Annotations).

Ooops, I forgot Hoid, how could I? I'm under the impression (but I don't have an evidence or quote now), that Rashek got his power through using the Well, and he didn't ingest a bead of Lerasium. That makes: 1 Hoid 1 Elend 9 the First Allomancers = 11 beads, so the number 10 seems not important here. For clarifying: I don't want to claim that there must be 16 beads. It only seems strange to me, that there would be (or would have been) no more 5 beads. @Kadrok We may have no evidence for TLR not taking a bead, but I think, he didn't. I might be wrong.