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So, to clarify, this: Meant the same thing as this: Right? I apologize if I've misunderstood you didn't mention any of the words Investiture, Realmatic, Balat's issues or Szeth's Voices initially and I found it ambiguous that people would misunderstand what you actually meant, especially after noticing you have multiple upvotes on that specific post.

BTW, this: does not say this: In that WoB Sanderson pointed out that what's happening to Kaladin isn't infused by external Investiture, an Unmade, (like Nan Balat's case), not that depression is a 'mundane neurochemcial thing'. That is your own personal interpretation, which quite frankly isn't very astute. Anyway, I disagree that a Lightweaver is needed to 'fix' Kaladin's depression, that doesn't sound like an in-depth resolution but more of a 'patch-up' work. And since it's an aspect verified as 'non-magical', I think it would make a lot more sense if he manages to overcome it in a 'non-magical' way. At least, it would offer better closure for the readership relating to him and his situation.

Well, painspren do not appear to be a mesh of multiple hands (and they are red right?) so maybe this picture is more about the 'corruption' and not the type of spren? Personally, I was always troubled by the fact that they are exactly 9 hands in that picture. I highly doubt they are as unimportant as 'a more powerful version of windspren' otherwise Sanderson wouldn't be so cryptic about them (both in WoBs and in-book). Yes, that's a good point. Maybe we'll learn more about them if we finally see what's happening in Shadesmar during a highstorm.

Ah yes, thank you! See, the exact wording matters in WoBs. It says that the Ancient Daughter status doesn't mean anything directly different in regards to the nahel bond. This and her being unaffected by the Recreance are not connected in this line of thought. Not all Ancient Daughters would have a different nahel bond. So it is still possible that her nahel bond with Kaladin is different in comparison to other Windrunners, not because she is an Ancient Daughter, but because she was unaffected by the Recreance and an indirect result of that. Maybe the Windrunner who was bonded to her pre-Recreance is important. Even if their nahel bond was severed she didn't become a Deadeyes. I'll pay more attention to these mentioned details on my WoK re-read.

Isn't Nightwatcher a many-legged spren too? And Cusicesh has many arms too right? Edit: There is also the top of the Sja-anat page.

I definitely think it's an important detail, particularly the fact that she came out unaffected by the Recreance because of it. Can you please post this WoB?:

Ah yes, I had a hazy memory of something like that. Even if it's from proximity, it's still inconclusive in this case. Having in mind that Tien was also proto-Lightweaver it could be anyone close to both Kaladin and Tien, Lirin included.

Honestly, the idea that Lirin is a Radiant or a Herald isn't new and it's either we are grasping at straws here or we're actually picking up on various hints. Personally, I love the theory even tho it seems so unlikely with the concrete information we have so far (and not just because I love running off on tangents). 1. As @RShara said "Most of the non-Skybreaker Radiants were killed soon after the Recreance." so that doesn't guarantee that all of them are dead. On the contrary, it brings out the question of 'why' was there an attempt to kill them all off, if they were going to die from old age anyway. So maybe there was indeed a way for them to extend their lifespan (Nightwatcher maybe), the Skybreakers decided to destroy that possibility. Such a scenario would also justify why would any surviving KR hide that fact that they survived that way. 2. We see most of the Kholin descendants to be inclined to Radiancy, so if it is in some way hereditary it means that Kaladin should have a parent that carries the 'Radiant' gene. I don't know if this argument holds or not, maybe there is a WoB to support/refute it. 3. WoK prologue was about the Heralds, we have 10 books, it all begins with 'Honor is dead' and we know that some Heralds are going to be POV characters in the back five books. So, all of this would lead to the assumption that the Heralds are a lot more important in the story than they are now, possibly the most important characters from the book series (apart from the main ones of course). Comparing that importance to the amount of information we have on them (which isn't that much tbh) I think we can assume that we'll keep on having a lot of revelations about them as we go along. Frankly, we don't even know who all of them are in the present timeline, even though Sanderson has said that we've seen them all in the first two books. I understand that these are not really arguments to support this but they are indications that this thought can at least survive in the back of our mind for the time being. Either way, there is a meaningful approach to 'who Lirin is' without bringing in the divine (KR or Herald). As @Dalakaar said, it could be a mix up of cause and effect. It could just be because Lirin had such a different approach in life, becoming a pacifist surgeon and Kaladin being raised in that environment was led on the Windrunner path. It certainly justifies Kaladin's anarchic approach on society (at least at first), caring about the wounded bridge men, his success as a leading figure, but also his ability to grow beyond most of the rest of Alethi dark eyes do. Still, we are on book 3 (okay 3,5) out of 10 so it's too soon to predict these stuff but you can expect just about anything from Sanderson really.

Found this thread and going through it myself, you might like it.

Sure but the WoB says that someone went ahead and did it anyway. Cool find @Kramerfarve! I like the Hesina theory (since Kaladin was nostalgic about Aesudan's song, it could be a hint) but Redin (the bastard son of Highprince Valam of Jah Keved) also had one dark-eyed parent and that's why he had heterochromia. So even if Hesina did change her eye-color, wouldn't she risk that at least one of her three kids would somehow inherit this trait as well?

To Dalinar: "Evi is in there."

I wonder if they got gemhearts too and if that's what gives them the ability to see spren.

Maybe Odium needed the Knight Radiants to re-emerge first just in time before the arrival of the Everstorm destroyed that chance. He planned Dalinar to be his Champion so it seems like he had insight into what was going to happen. Edit: I mean there is one of the Moleach Death Rattles that presumably talks about Shallan and Kaladin emerging from the chasms. Maybe Odiun could see as far ahead as Shallan finding the Oathgate to Urithiru.

I actually like Kaladin because he's depressed. That's a POV I haven't read before. Actually, it's because he's a fictional character that makes it okay to like his depression. In real life, you'd just advise them to go to therapy and hope they get better :|

Yes indeed, it could've happened either way, I'm just theorizing one (of the many) possible scenario that fits the info we have at this moment. I meant that Honor's Intent would compel him into keeping his word truthfully (read the 2nd post of the thread) where Cultivation would've been able to 'tweak the rules' (prune), arriving in the Cognitive Realm or on one of the moons in secret, and in doing so still keeping the agreement of the Shards. As far as I know, all the Shards were supposed to stick to their word about splitting up, but as you've already mentioned, a lot of them didn't. So either their word isn't as 'sealing' (as Odium told Taravangian in OB - yes it could be a lie anyway) or it is sealing but doesn't surpass the Shard's Intention, they are compelled to follow their honour/passion/etc. I think the later is a more interesting scenario that's why I'm trying to find a justification of how a Shard would act in that certain way even though it's somehow 'bound by their word'. I remember something like that and I've pulled the WoB below. It's important to re-read them once in a while because we sometimes remember what we've interpreted out of one instead of what was actually said. Especially since Sanderson seems very reluctant to answer, I think it's important to notice the wording used here. It's talking about 'certain things' and 'in some ways' about a person that 'she knew'. It's as vague as it can get really.

Yes, I know that they were romantically involved, but becoming a Vessel changes a person, a Shard is a very powerful thing. As much as they wanted to stay together afterward, in time they would become compelled to follow the Intention of their respective Shards right? So my completely hypothetical scenario would be that Honor, willing to keep his word, left for Roshar, without noticing that Cultivation was right behind him or maybe arriving in the solar system via another route. I base this on the fact that the Heralds were made with Honor's Investiture only and, correct me if I'm wrong, Cultivation doesn't seem to be involved until the Knight Radiants were created.

Granted, but then Disney buys them. In order to maximize merchandise sales, they flood the entertainment industry with hundreds of unknown heroes with stupid powers that it doesn't matter if it's Marvel or DC. I wish to control my emotions with logic.

Correct me if I'm wrong (since I'm not a native English speaker I might be missing something here) but since the original question is about 'when' they arrived wouldn't Sanderson say 'they came together' even if he meant 'they came at the same time' and not necessarily meant they decided to go on Roshar 'together' ?

Normally, I would just read through such a thread but not have the courage to comment, since it feels like I'm in too deep since I don't understand everything (I don't want to waste people's time with my silly questions or remarks). But you did say in the referencing thread that you didn't get much activity in here and I thought 'I might as well say how far I understand this bit, at least it'll bump the thread' and voila. Your newest post will keep me occupied for tonight. Bring in all the info, maybe something will stick.

*gasp* Theory confirmed.

Maybe the mathematical projection gifs scared people away even if your main point is based on the "flattened version" WoB. I think they like their WoBs around here, so I would've started with that first in order to sell it I admit it's the first time I see that WoB and I didn't necessarily perceive 'flattened' as 2D but that 'the dimensions are differently projected from Physical to Cognitive'. So how my mind would simplify it is that Cognitive location is relevant to the 'height of thought' (processing level) existing in the corresponding location of the Physical Realm. So where nothingness exists in the Physical Realm (emptiness between planets) that location just doesn't exist in the Cognitive or is very very small (amounts to how much existence thinks on it). On the other hand, I would even assume that if you had a supercomputer it would manifest as something huge, or at least 'tall' in the Cognitive Realm. Now I wonder what that 'sun' in the Cognitive Realm is... Relative robot WoB you might like: Anyway, on topic now, the idea that Cognitive is 2d and Spiritual is 1d is very interesting (I love simplifications and the reason behind it is a discussion in itself) but I feel that there is something missing, so maybe it's an oversimplification here. Granted there is at least one WoB that says that time doesn't exist in the Spiritual Realm, so that makes it one dimension less than the Cognitive, but we still have (apart from time itself): location which needs at least 2 dimensions, and the 'amount of cognitive thought' ,height, as you've described it in the WeiryWriter inspiration bit. So that's at least 4 dimensions in the Cognitive. That doesn't mean that the Spiritual Realm isn't 1d, you could still project anything to 1d anyway, but it just means that, sadly for simplification purposes, it isn't verified as a fact yet.

Could it be that Honor didn't know that Cultivation followed him to Roshar?

Actually...

This forum holds immense amounts of information but it's very hard to go through each and every one thread looking for interesting theories (especially ones from older books). So I'm making this thread in hope of resurfacing old and lost theories and ideas. Please describe or link personal favourite theories (yours or other people's), theory-crafting posts and ideas below. Here is one I like from @hoiditthroughthegrapevine:

He's born on the top of the social food chain, but doesn't follow neither the 'Game of Houses' (as Thom Merrilin would call it) nor 'Dalinar's Code'. To me, even his pursuit for Shallan didn't seem genuine. I feel there is something else he wants to do apart from playing dress-up and I'm still looking forward to see that. I don't mind if that's Maya's resurrection, but I certainly want him to struggle for it, put the effort in for once. Not because I hate him, but I think it would make a more interesting plot. I used to be bothered by the fact that I find Adolin in a morally gray area. In my mind he doesn't fill fit the KR heroic ideals. But I've come to realise that maybe, the KRs of this timeline could all be a different sort than what was in the past, since Honor is now dead. Maybe there is something more to what's going on in regards to the general idea of 'Radiancy' especially since we know that Unmade have enlightenment abilities. But still, as a reader, I feel that Adolin needs some sort of redemptive path for shirking his responsibility for refusing the throne and for killing off Sadeas like a street thug. (BTW you should've included resurrect but not KR since your third option seems to get a lot of votes.)