alder24

For the same reason Taravangian is bound by the deal Rayse made with Dalinar or Taravangian can't hurt Hoid - those oaths are binding the Shard itself. A Vessel isn't separate from the Shard, they are intertwined and a Vessel is just the mind controlling the power and it's the power that is Connected to all. Taravangian is a Shard now, he is Odium and he is bound by the same oaths Odium is bound - this includes all oaths that Rayse made because Rayse was Odium too. RoW ch 114: Yes and yes. In my opinion yes. Yes, perception matters. But in this case the destruction of Kharbranth would be the result of Taravangian's action causing the death of the Stormfather. The only one who would be responsible for the city's destruction is Taravangian. If you kill an entity responsible for controlling the weather you are just asking for a catastrophe to happen. Taravangian loves and wants to preserve his city and family so badly that it's very likely he will blame himself for its destruction. He cares for those people even if he used them to achieve his goals. Yes, but this wasn't a binding oath but an agreement, which even allowed Shards to agree to settle together. Honor and Cultivation agreed to settle together and later they even allowed Odium to settle on Roshar too. But Odium was Splintering Shards using the fact that they had settled together, thus breaking the agreement as the justification - which gave him an edge. This also means that even if Taravangin won't consider himself responsible for the destruction of Kharbranth, others can argue that he is and that will give them an edge in fighting - a very dangerous edge. Yes they are - to some degree.

Yes, 100% agree. F-zinc is my favorite Feruchemical metal, and personally one of the best. It combines very well with many other abilities, for example an A-electrum F-zinc Twinborn would be able to fully utilize all electrum shadows to the scale of A-Atium, which would be extremely dangerous. We need more of it, we need to see it in action.

Yes.

Not entirely. Yes, he will win against Dalinar but I believe by doing that Taravangian will deadeye the Stormfather, which will cause endless Weeping, causing flooding that will destroy Kharbranth, thus Odium will break the deal with Taravangian and that will either be exploited by the Coalition, or it will force Odium to withdraw for a time being. Future Cosmere spoilers, SotD2:

Then he should have stayed quiet and not tried to change Gavilar's mind and convinced him of the value of being tortured for eternity. We know who the Stormfather is, Gavilar didn't, Gavilar had no idea how to impress the Stormfather and he thought being pious will work - it didn't. Gavilar didn't even know that the recovery of the Tranquiline Halls isn't real. Odium could have just said “oh I see your point, maybe that will work,” or something like that and Gavilar would have believed in that. The fact that the Stormfather reacted this way proves that it wasn't Odium who impersonated him. But Gavilar wasn't the target of the Thrill, he wasn't shaped by the Thrill, he wasn't bloodthirsty like Dalinar was and he wasn't broken by his own actions. Just being under Thrill's influence isn't enough. Disagree, he thought he knew. He failed to realize that Restares is Kalak, that Nale is a Herald as well, despite them not hiding it from him. He was blinded by religion. He thought that the Oathpact wasn't broken and that Taln would be the reason for it being broken in the future. Gavilar was just wrong. True and that's another problem for Odium-the-Stormfaker. If that was really Odium then Odium would know how to create anti-light and wouldn't need Raboniel to do that. Of course he Raysed considered the contest in his plans but his chosen champions slipped out of his hands twice - Dalinar and Kaladin. Then he had to agree to terms that weren't favorable no matter the outcome, because his Shard was pushing strongly against him. Rayse was in conflict with his own power and couldn't deley it any longer, he wasn't as smart as Taravangian and was blined by the power so he simply couldn't figure any better solution. Taravangian could and did. Not entirely true. Odium is now fully invested and committed to Roshar. He can't just leave. What he wants is to be freed of Honor's restraints, which don't just bind him to Roshar, but also prevents him from using his powers at full potential. He wants to use Roshar as his training camp for his army that is meant to conquer Cosmere in his name. He needs Roshar. OB ch 57: RoW ch 112: If Rayse was planning to use Gavilar as his champion (which we know isn't true because Dalinar was meant to be his champion) then Taravangian wouldn't consider his loophole to be "a possibility Rayse had missed." Therefore Rayse didn't want to use Gavilar, so he didn't make him into Fused, nor did he hold onto his soul and that simply means that Gavilar's soul slipped into the Beyond and now is beyond anyone's reach. Taravangian can't make Gavilar into his champion if Rayse hadn't planned for this to happen - he didn't. Yes, I agree, Dalinar seeing Gavilar as Odium's champion would mess everything up and he might want to refuse to fight him or kill him. But he's not the only person that would have such an effect on Dalinar. Spoilers from other series are not allowed on this sub-forum. Please edit your post (top-right of your post, 3 dot menu -> edit) and put this in a spoiler box with a proper warning before it. Cosmere spoilers:

That's a popular theory. You may be interested to look at this topic: https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/93388-discuss-windrunner-5th-ideal/ No, the 5th Ideal is the natural progression of all Radiants. Nale is as mad as any other Herald. He no longer even has any feelings and he admits he's getting worse on multiple occasions. Only Nale from all Heralds joined the Radiants. In OB Skybreakers said it has been centuries since someone said the 5th Ideal - this can't be Nale because Nale joined Radiants before the Last Desolation, more than 4500 years ago. Nale also did abandon his duty and the Oathpact and instead of protecting Roshar he was killing Radiants and then switched sides joining Odium. Edgedancer ch 19:

Disagree 100%. Spren can change and Stormfather in the Gavilar prologue isn't that different from the Dalinar's Stormfather. And SF told Gavilar that "If I try again, I will do it differently.," which explains differences. Gavilar saw the Stormfather as the shimmering, the SF felt Herald dying and that was very shocking and agonizing, even lightning appeared. SF tried to hide the fact that the Herald had died and wasn't prepared for this. SF even said to Gavilar that "he can't order him around" when he was asked to watch the door but did that anyway - something very similar to how Dalinar's Stormfather did on multiple occasions. Dalinar opened Honor's perpendicularity while being a Bondsmith and opening perpendicularity is a Bondsmith power. Gavilar was no Bondsmith. So why would the Stormfaker Odium be so surprised and devastated by Gavilar, when he said that he would just immediately break and let Fused back onto Roshar instead of holding them back in Damnation? That's not what Odium would do. It's not the words that matter, it's the intent. You must mean and believe in the words you're saying and this was Gavilar's first time when he said words which he truly meant, that weren't just a random guess. The biggest problem with this is for Odium to do stuff like we see in the prologue, Odium needs a really, really strong Connection to that person and Gavilar had no way of gaining that Connection. It took Odium decades to establish this proper Connection to Dalinar. Odium can't just show himself to anyone, he needs that Connection - that's why he couldn't directly influence Kaladin in RoW, he did this using Moash's Connection. How would Gavilar gain that Connection to Odium in the first place? Moreover before the True Desolation started, Odium would be locked away from Roshar, stuck on Braize - it would be even harder for him to show himself on Roshar and interact with Gavilar in any way. RoW I-4: That was about Rayse's plans for the whole Cosmere, Taravangian's loophole relies on something that Rayse had missed - Gavilar is then unlikely to be the answer, RoW ch 114: I personally think that the very last words of the prologue seal the idea of Gavilar as the champion of Odium:

No. You can become a Mistborn with a Soulstamp, but you can't draw power from Preservation. You need to have some external source of investiture, like a jar of Dor, to power your Forged Allomancy. As far as we know, you can't change your Spirit Web with just raw investiture. You need to have some ability that will allow you to use it to make changes in your Spirit Web, like Bondsmithing, Forgery, Elantrian powers or Hemalurgy.

That kind of shaving won't kill a person, it would make the cut area dead and kill cells responsible for the hair growth. Loss of sense in this area would also happen most likely as receptors in your skin would be killed too. Thus it would be the last shave you will ever need and if you cut shallow enough it would damage only skin cells, not muscles beneath, thus your face would function normally but you won't feel any touch in that area. That is what I think about this scenario.

We've seen scenes like this, particularly in WoR Kaladin vs Szeth fight. I don't know if it's about severing nerves, there is nothing on this, but it is confirmed to be about severing the soul fully. Partial cuts to the body parts seem to do no big damage and leave the limb/body part functioning but the soul in that place has now a hole in it. It still hurts. In my opinion if you cut a limb only partially, the soul isn't severed and the limb would be still alive but its functionality might be decreased, depending which part was damaged - like a muscle cut right in the middle probably won't be functioning well, but if it passes through the vital nerve it might partially paralyze your limb. WoR ch 86: RoW ch 6: Here we see Leshwi was wounded in the shoulder and it was painful to the point of tears. It didn't immobilize her entire arm, but she kept her hand on the wound afterwards. I think that this particular body part, where the spear was, is now gray and dead. There probably are other examples in books but I can remember only these two. Where a Shardblade strikes, it will kill the body on its way - a small cut done by a sword won't do much damage, some muscles with a dead part in the middle for example. A spear that twists will kill basically a cone-shaped region of a body. Only a full and clean cut through the limb will fully kill a limb. I'm not entirely sure what would happen if you cut an arm to the main nerve only but not fully through it. Would it be fully paralyzed without killing it and making it gray? Would it not be paralyzed and be somewhat functional because your soul is still connected? From the examples we’ve seen it seems that cutting through a nerve would kill it and lead to paralyzation, especially considering what a cut to the spine does but connected soul is important enough to change the outcome. A cut through the spine seems to cut your soul's Connection to the body entirely rather than fully paralyzing you. You need to sever the spine specifically. If you won't cut the spine, it won't kill you.

Other spores do something similar but on a smaller scale, they form Connection and Tress could feel them, ch 41:

Cosmere mythology is open for interpretation on purpose. Religion is very important to many characters ans Brandon gives us all arguments we need to make our own conclusions - that there is the omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent God, or that Adonalsium or Shards are true gods who doesn't need to be like Abrahamic God to be gods, or that there is no god at all in Cosmere, all of those entities came naturally because laws of physics in Cosmere allow them to exists and just like ants would see us humans as gods from their perspective, so humans can view Shards as gods from their perspective. There is really no one true answer as far as readers are concerned, we decide what works best for us. It was proposed recently a few time, here for example: https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/174123-crackpot-theory-about-the-iriali-and-the-one/ or here https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/135183-iriali-and-the-16th-shard/ Here are SA letters for you: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Letters?&oldid=180609 Frost letter to Hoid: Their interference caused only harm - the Shattering - so he decided not to interfere to not cause any more pain. Frost believes things have been set up for a reason - either it means by Adonalsium or the Bod Beyond remains a question.

Depends on your definition of "being alive" Splintered, not killed - power can't be killed, energy can't be destroyed. The Vessel is dead however. But can the person that Adonalsium was be restored or would it be just combining all the 16 powers back together? We actually don't know if Adonalsium can be restored at all or if putting all 16 Shards together will bring back the same force/entity that Adonalsium was or create something entirely new and unique. Well, Jesus is the Son of God, part of the Holy Trinity - one God in three persons. I didn't respond to you to force my opinion on you, just to ask you questions that you should ask yourself. I provided you with various possibilities and it's for you to decide what works for you the best. As you and I both know, the definition of the God, especially in the fantasy world, is fully subjective. You decide what works for you, and if for you Adonalsium is the God then it's decided. But keep in mind others might have different opinion and claim that for example the God Beyond is the God. They aren't just personalities, they are pieces of the power of creation. They represent fundamental concepts and ideas of Cosmere - like entropy, stasis or change. Those aren't Shards. Gravity doesn't belong to Honor. Gravity is a fundamental force that people can access through the filter of Honor and Cultivation, or some other Shard elsewhere. Honor is about bonds, Ruin is about entropy, Preservation is about stasis - there is no fundamental force of stasis, this concept is greater than fundamental forces. Exactly. And those 4 fundamental forces in our universe eventually created a sentient life. In the same way, fundamental forces in Cosmere allowed for investiture to gain sentience and be Adonalsium. At least in this particular theory. A Shard left without any Vessel can gain sentience on its own, so why not Adonalsium? Obviously because in our universe there is no investiture. In Cosmere investiture is energy and it can gain sentience on its own if left alone long enough. Stars are just a bunch of matter and energy bound gravitationally, being one of the biggest and most energetic objects in the universe. Adonalsium and Shards are just a collection of investiture in the same way stars are made out of matter. By the laws of Cosmere, this kind of thing can just develop a mind. That's why I specifically compared the sun from our Earthly universe to Cosmere Adonalsium. Not Cosmere stars. Just to say that natural laws allow stars to exist without them being gods, in the same way Shards/Adonalsium can exist without them being gods. And once again I want to highlight that it is just one option of many and everyone can choose what works for them. I don't even argue in support of one specific idea, I argue for all of them just to encourage discussion and so you can make your own decision based on wider argumentation. Then a definitive power scaling doesn't have to include the God, just the most powerful beings on the top who happened to be Adonalsium, who happened to be killed but doesn't need to be the God but is a god. If that's all you need. It's a fantasy world, it doesn't have to have the God that is just like the Abrahamic God. That was just a poor methaphor, Jesus is a better one. Because the story is focused on that one? Or maybe there is nothing beyond Cosmere in terms of beings like Adonalsium? Maybe there is no investiture beyond Cosmere at all? I don't really understand what you mean and what you're searching for right now. The God Beyond is becoming a more and more important piece of Cosmere. Dalinar is now worshiping him, we don't know what his role will be in the future, but Dalinar just came up with his name out of nowhere, we can expect more people to believe in him across Cosmere in the future, we can expect him to be a more important figure in the future. He doesn't have to play a vital role in the story, he doesn't have to smack people in the face, he can be just an important figure in religion, giving people hope and guidance in times of trouble - just like God here. Or just like God here he can throw a lightning or cure a disease once in a while. Not just wrong, wrong in terms of religion and religious beliefs. Honor isn't dead as long as he lives in the hearts of man! Honor isn't dead, he is Splintered - the power can't be killed. Is Honor real - yes. Is Trell real - yes. Is Adonalsium real - yes. Everyone who believes in them is justified. They all can be called gods. And if Brandon suddenly announces if there is or isn't the God in Cosmere, that kind of ruins the story for people like Dalianar, Jasnah or Sazed, for whom this question is an essential part of them. Preservation was basically dead and yet he put plans in motion and people were justified in believing in him. Honor might be dead but we don't know if there aren't any plans prepared by him before his death. Accepting that Honor is dead doesn't mean that Honor isn't/wasn't their god. That's their journey to make. And you said it yourself "If Ado can be reformed, I wouldn't say he is dead - just temporarily separated." So by your own words, ardents aren't wrong. He can be the power of creation because he created Cosmere, but isn't powers of divinity (and I don't think it was claimed that he is powers of divinity whatever that means). Just like Ruin is the power of entropy, which is one power of creation, Adonalsium is all powers combined, including entropy. And it can be that because of perception Adonalsium became the embodiment of the powers of creation, rather than the powers of creation were made from Adonalsium - just like spren are embodiment of emotions and forces of nature, but those things exists even without them - perception shaped them that way. It can also mean that he knows the answer, which is there is no answer. Again, I didn't write this to force my opinion on you, not even to share my opinion, but to provide different points of view, even contradictory to each other. When we discuss the notion of the capital G God in Cosmere it's really hard to separate our personal beliefs from the topic, because we tend to search for and thus defend our personal beliefs. There is no answer to this question and I personally think that's fine. God can mean different things to different people, even in our world. I can see why people want to worship Heralds, Aethers, Shards, Ado or the God Beyond and I'm fine with no definite answer to this topic - especially when it is so important to so many characters and their story is just so much better if I don't know the answer to this question. This is a fantasy world with fantasy religions and deities - I don't need to place my God or no God in it to enjoy the story as presented, I will accept whatever the book presents to me. The fact that there are so many different and contradictory belief systems in Cosmere makes it just more immersive. There is a larger universe outside of the Cosmere star cluster, with the same structure as our universe - more galaxies, superclusters etc:

The Cosmere as the star cluster named Cosmere? If Adonalsium was just investiture existing in the star cluster that gained sentience, then Adonalsium can be all investiture in Cosmere, with Aethers and Dawnshards originating outside of Cosmere, or maybe they were just small chunks of investiture within Cosmere that gained sentience in the same time as Adonalsium did. And the first WoB is incomplete, we clearly know not all investiture in Cosmere was assigned to 16 Shards - Aethers and Dawnshards weren't a part of it. The follow-up WoB:

Maybe they are already bound to the Midnight Aethers and thus controlled by them to protect and can't do anything on their own, nor can be persuaded to form another bond? Just because they have some basic intelligence doesn't mean they are self-aware.

He was killed, wasn't he? That's not really qualifying him for the status of the capital G God. But we don't know and we will never know if there is the God in Cosmere. Some argue there is God Beyond, others think it's Adonalsium, others claim there is no God in Cosmere. But we the readers will never know the truth. About Adonalsium being the creator of everything, Some claim he did that, others say he created only Cosmere - the star cluster of around 100 stars - but there are Aethers who claimed to predate Adonalsium. So again, who is right? We don't know. But if Aethers are truly equal to Adonalsium, independent from his power and co-date him, then can Adonalsium really be named the God? TLM ch 42: That's only if you treat Adonalsium as a god at all, not as a natural phenomena happening in Cosmere. Investiture is energy in the same way that matter is energy - you don't call the Sun a god, so maybe Adonalsium was never a god to begin with, just a bunch of Investiture that came alive and started to create things. But that's a more scientific approach, maybe there is God Beyond, who is the capital G God. But then there are other religions in the world in which gods can be killed. I simply want to point out that this is a fantasy story in a fantasy world, it can be inspired by non-Abrahamic religions and it doesn't have to represent the real world, real religions and real God. Adonalsium can be a god and he can have beings equal to him like Aethers and this doesn't diminish the main story or the gravity of the Shattering. Not every story needs a capital G God in it. Then it's not Adonalsium who you should treat as the God, but the God Beyond who is like Abrahamic God. He is the ultimate Creator of everything and Adonalsium is simply below him, like Angels are below God - or Jesus, because just like Him Adonalsium was killed and just like Him Adonalsium might return. Brandon knows if there is a capital G God in Cosmere so there is an answer to this question, but we will never know this.

I don't think so. Crow can't control vines or make them grow in one direction, I doubt you would have that kind of control over Midnight Essence. Maybe once they pop out to defend you, you might be able to establish Luhel Bond, but you probably can't just summon them on command. Spore Eaters have a parasite in them, it's not a beneficial power, it is feeding on them until they die and the bare minimum they get in return is saving their lives from direct harm - just to keep them alive and feed on their water longer. They are not like Aetherbound, they can't control it.

I don't think Brandon is planning to write any Mistborn Era 2 nevella himself in the near future, but Isaac Stewart, who wrote the broadsheets, is writing a story about Nicki Savage. The first draft is already completed. Brandon future release and writing schedule for the next 6 years:

Probably a bad idea because their mental state is stunned and they can't really follow the Fortune feeling that well. It might make them deal better with drunkenness, but it would be a real waste of the attribute. Their Fortune would be focused on getting them to the store for more booze, rather than conquering the world when they're sober. They would get to the store really well and avoid tripping on the way but they could have been ruling the world instead.

No, because they are not Koloss. If they use the perception trick that Vasher uses they might be able to get the Koloss body, but it would be as strong as the Returned body, because they still aren't a Koloss (for the same reasons Vasher or Denth are still faster and stronger than a normal human in their suppressed form). Investiture resists investiture. A Koloss is made out of a person's soul, which appears as a person, not a Koloss, in CR after their death. So a Returned Koloss would be a normal Returned stuck in Koloss body - it would be like taking a Returned and making him into a Koloss with spikes. HOWEVER during the Return process the body is healed and I think spikes might be pushed out of the body to match the Spiritual Ideal of a person who's Returning, and because those are people, they would perceive themselves as people. But investiture resists investiture so I don't know what would happen, but I find it highly unlikely for a Koloss to be chosen to Return in the first place.

Investiture resists investiture. Everything that is invested would be hard to push with Allomancy. The more invested something is, the harder it is to push it. Shardblades, living or dead, are highly invested and they would be really, really hard to push. You would need to wield the full power of the Well of Ascension or use duralumin with a really strong steelpush - both options aren't possible for your average Mistborn. They are however metals - god metals - and a dead blade would be a little easier to be pushed than a living one, but still too invested to make any difference. WoBs:

That's actually a good question. Would Abrasion cancel out the force of lift? I think not, lift is generated by the pressure difference between the upper and lower surfaces of the wings, not by friction itself. This pressure difference is created by the shape of the wings and the angle of attack. Thus the plane would not drop out of the sky, because Abrasion doesn't change the pressure distribution. You would have a perfect glider, it would speed up, but as mentioned by Quantus, the inertial drag force would eventually stop it from accelerating too much.

What do you have with all those wires? XD No, the wire would not be perceived as a part of a weapon, it would be a separate thing. Everyone recognizes a spear, but if you add a weird wire to it everyone would treat it as a odd attachment rather than a part of a spear. Maybe, Xiahida has already provided the WoB. What I will point out it's possible that the blade would still physically cut, just like in contact with an aluminum foil: I am still opposed to the idea of the Hemalurgic wires and I also think that the larger the charge in a spike, the bigger the changes to the Spirit Web, the bigger the "hole" in the Spirit Web. It's not as big as with the use of multiple spikes, but it's still bigger than if you use one spike with a single, normal charge. For example one spike with 4 powers would be comparable with the changes made to the soul and openings it produces to 2 spikes with 1 power each or something like that. That's my opinion on that. We've never seen any spike being full and you can steal a Divine Breath with one and that's worth 2000 Breaths. I don't think you need to worry about "space" in a spike. At worst you're gonna have something like Nightblood that is so invested that it's basically a god metal leaking investiture physically. Sure you can. If a Divine Breath can be fit then Rashek's power can fit too. And he didn't use Lerasium, he used the power of the Well to make himself even stronger than Lerasium would have made him. Physical solid form of investiture is generally more resilient to those types of things. Breaths in the Susebron aren't solid. Being invested and being made out of solid investiture are to vastly different things.

Yeah, he didn't use most of the Bands powers, there are 32 of them, they should still be functional in TLM. They seem to not work like medallions. The nicrosil part of metallions work like a coppermind, but there are no medallions with Allomantic powers. It seems to me that normal Feruchemical nicrosil works like any other metalmind - you store your Allomancy for an hour, you can tap it for an hour and be twice as strong. So the Bands have 16 metalminds and those powers might work like medallions - off and on switch - but all Allomantic powers stored in the nicrosilmind are on a timer, like in normal Feruchemy, just how ironminds work. You can recharge that nicrosilmind with compounding, but if the power of A-steel (for example) is completely used up, you need to give it to a Coinshot, so they can store their power in them for some time. So they were drained not only of all Allomantic powers stored in the nicrosilmind, but also of every other Feruchemical attribute stored in any other metalminds. The Bands probably still make you a Feruchemist, but they are empty, they have no use unless you recharge them. Brandon currently has no plans to write SH2 in the nearest 6-8 years. He will write the full Era 3 during that time. Just 8 more years and we will start getting some answers.

Yes. They are Fabrials, they have spren like Soulcasters attached to them and Brandon confirmed it's an implementation of the Surge of Transportation. I think they use the light you provide to form a temporary perpendicularity and activate both Oathgaths at the same time. You have two perpendicularities open now and the gate just pulls you through them through the SR. The people of Ashyn arrived on Roshar with the use of the Elsecalling, not Rosharan one but the same power, Oathgates do just that. However they are manifestations of two sprens, not one as other Fabrials we know. We don't even know which spren are they - they don't look like Radiant spren. They don't know the way to do that, but iirc it was suggested in RoW that the Oathgates can be used to travel between 10 cities without the need to go to the Tower first. I think it's unlikely that you can use the Urithiru gates and travel to CS in Kholinar for example. For the same reason a dead Shardblade also doesn't make that trip - it's already there in CR. The plate and a Shardblade is just a physical manifestation of spren. A Shardblade can be dismissed and a deadeye will appear in CR, but a dead plate can't. I assume you won't be able to take any fabrial with you for the same reasons - they already are in Shadesmar. Obviously the transfer between gates doesn't go through the CR, it goes through the SR because it's spaceless and the distance there simply doesn't matter. Edit: The white Oathgate spren doesn't look like an Lightspren and both Oathgate spren calls the Sibling their parent. I don't think they are the Radiant spren. Coppermind: