alder24

Yes, but it doesn't exist bofore you do it, you don't feel it. You don't know what to convert. The ability to convert an attribute into investiture comes from your sDNA and the metal you want to use. So yes, you can try to create pewter investiture and put it into a steelmind. Intent prohibits this. You have the intent to use a steel, but your intent to use a proper attribute isn't matched with what steel Feruchemical property is. Therefore nothing would happen. But if you intend to use steel and speed - then magic will happen and the attribute will be converted into investiture and pushed into that steelmind. You need to match the attribute you want to store with the metal's feruchemical property. But storing "something" isn't a match. Yes they aren't hidden outside. The room is your body, blocks are the attributes and you (in that analogy) is a will, a mind that decides what to do. You already have a pile of 17 blocks that you know to which hole they fit in, the rest is "hidden" in the room among common objects. This is to explain that you need to think about what can be stored in a metalmind and test it - trying to fit that block into the hole (metalmind). Finding a block means knowing how it looks, what shape it has etc - thinking about what can be an attribute means guessing some part of your body or its function by the name - like guessing that height can be stored. Then you test it trying to store it. But you need to know what you try to store. Your "fixed" analogy still assumes that you know this block exists. That you touch it, you focus on it, you pick it up. But that's not what you are proposing. You propose to fit into the hole a block that doesn't exist, a block that you don't touch, you don't see, you don't know that is in your room. But this is something that you need to know, as you have to pick it up with your hands and push it into the hole. Without knowing about it, you won't pick it up. And yes, you have to physically touch them. Do you have telekinetic ability or something? Kids with telekinesis would be a nightmare. Nah, If I had a Fullmind I wouldn't waste my time trying to figure out which attribute belongs to which metal. I would just make a list of new storable attributes and pass it to scientists and let them waste their life on that, while I would just have fun playing with new toys. I think you falsely assume that Fullmind will be a focus of future scientific advancements in Metallic arts. It won't be. That's just a new fancy tool for a select few to play with - at best. Another thing against your idea. If you would need JUST the intent to store SOMETHING in metalmind, then it would be no different from Inquisitors wanting to compound - just them wanting to burn metalminds should be enough. And yet none of them figured it out under Ruin, even when Marsh knew about it, heard Sazed's explanation and knew he just needed to burn his metalmind. Easy right? No. Because more is needed. You need to know that you must "burn" that new reserve of your stored attribute, not just burn a metalmind like a metal. To add more, you need to know what is happening, and how this will change you. That's what they were missing. They didn't know it. In the same way, just knowing that it is a metalmind isn't enough, you need to know which attribute to store, how will it change you and what is happening. And you can't know all of that without knowing which attribute it is. That's the proper intent you need to have. Just storing "something" won't do it, just like Inquisitors weren't able to just "burn" metalminds. This, this explanation of intent is the last one that I will give you. This WoB explains what I've been talking to you in all those past days, confirming my idea. That's one of many possibilities of how a Fullmind might work. You might need just to know the attribute, or both attribute and metal to which it belongs to. But I think because a Fullmind is keyed to every attribute, you just need to know only that. SA SA SA: SA: Who do you think you are that we need to fight for your approval? No, they don't do that anymore. That shouldn't be the case. They shouldn't be repealed by spikes. But I had to check and it did happen with Wax in TLM! Ch 69: This is another proof that something is wrong with Harmony, that he favors Preservation over Ruin and Mist reacted to this and are now repealed by Hemalurgy. Or this is even an indication that Sazed is already Discord. That's very interesting. For me are, as I lack the proper knowledge of music and waves That's not true, after a long time, there will be only one atom of that isotope left, and it will decay, leaving you with nothing. Technically speaking. No, it's not metal. It's not a spike anymore. Fabrial on the other hand might be possible to make that way. You replace a spren with a different kind of soul. Interesting.

I think you forgot that the Highstom in the west is massively weaker than the Highstorm in the east. Read the first chapter of Edgedancer. The grass is tall and thick, trees are tall, growing up, and look like they were made out of vines, other trees are tall with wide branches tangled with other branches, and animals have little to none shell. Look at Yeddew, it is like chasms in Shattered Plains. Yet, in Yeddew, there are homes with walls, windows and doors. Only stairs separate Highstorm water from houses. In the Shattered Plains the water surge dozens of feet high (80 I think?). Even farming plants are much bigger in the east, the difference that was already very big in comparison between the Shattered Plains and Alethkar. My point is that the environment in the west is much different than in the east, Highstorms are much weaker compared to the east. Even close to the Shattered Plains, a simple wooden wagon was enough to shelter from a very strong Highstorm. In the lands close to Shinovar, it would be much easier to build a shelter - just find a forest and within a few short hours you can build a primitive housing from wood. Roman Legionaries were able to build a full camp with fortifications in 4-5 hours. Every day. Even when crossing mountain ranges in Shinovar, a simple valley with a wall on the eastern side, would provide enough protection to wait Highstorm out even without any shelter. Mountain ranges aren't formidable. Hannibal crossed 2 mountain ranges on his path to Rome with elephants. He then spent 15 years pillaging Italy, undefeated by Romans. Now let's consider Singer-Human relations. I strongly believe that there was a significant contact between Singers (at least those living close by Shinovar) and Ashynites. It was not only driven by pity and will to help, but also out of curiosity! Like you pointed out, Rosharan environment would be alien to Ashynites. Rocky, barren, with weird fauna and flora, with massive Storms coming every few days. This will encourage humans to start a friendly exploration of that unknown land, ask Singers about the nature of Roshar etc. But the same would work for Singers. For them, humans with their soft, unshelled skin, animals full of fluffy fur, chickens of all kinds and plants with tall unreactive leafs would be equally as alien as Roshar was for Ashynites. They would go to Shinovar, explore this new unknown land and its strange inhabitants. That's the one way of interactions, the second is pity and will to help. As said in The Eila Stele, Singers took them out of pity (and commanded by their gods) and provide help and succor for them. That means food, resources and advice. They were in contact with each other, they were talking, as they were "fooled by their sweet tongues". That for me means that humans had on opportunity to find out about Rosharan native food providing plants that look like rock, animals that have a hard shell, but can be hunted and eaten, and most importantly Highstorms. Even if Shinovar Highstorms are weak, they would still need a shelter and a warning - this warning would most likely be provided by Singers, who can hear in Rhythms when the storm is coming. And the clear difference of Singers hearing Rhythms of Roshar, and Ashynites not, would spark curious conversation - just like 7000 years later, when Gavilar discovered Parshendi, they were asking where are Rhythms of Parshman. The same would be here, Singers would ask about absence of human Rhythms, and they would ask about Singer's Rhythms, Ashynites would know Singers can detect incoming Highstorms. Then you just give humans months or years to realize that this simple life of farming and separation isn't for them. That they want more, they want what Singers have, they want to have all of Roshar for themself, not just a small enclave. They would already have a necessary basic knowledge of Roshar and its environment, of Highstorms and how to hide from them, of native food and animals. That's all they need for an initial strike. Are you familiar with the Napoleon Corps system? They didn't have a supply train carrying their food from France, they were living off the land they were in. Each soldier was carrying their own food. The same with Roman Legionaries, they were obligated to carry 15 days worth of food and water with them. Napoleon corps were small, independent armies, moving together with other corps, but on different roads, separately, from village to village taking peoples supply and food, but still operating closely together, that when the enemy army approached, they combined into a single army in no time. This gave Napoleon superior maneuverability and speed no enemy army could match. Do that. Carry your own food on your back. Move from village to village in between Highstorms and hide there, in homes when Highstorm approaches. Don't do "small rides" do full scale invasion with small armies acting independently, small enough to hide in Singers village and live off the land, large enough to deal with any small scale resistance, operating close to other armies to combine together when the enemy army is closing. No need for a supply train, no need to be slow and rely on resources from Shinovar. Go there, with a full army and take what they have. Do not forget, Ashynites brought horses with them! They have cavalry with them, a unit unknown to Singer, that can travel very fast between armies as messengers, provide scouting, or even shock with cavalry charges. And also carry even more supplies without any need for slow moving wagons. Also Raboniel mentioned that humans came with horribly burnt livestock, so they could use them and prepare provisions for the initial invasion. Good point, searching for more I've found this quote from Raboniel in RoW: Those words suggest that spren first left and then war began. But I think it's the opposite based on the quote, Raboniel first said that was before they understood surges (and I think we know this came in following Desolations), then before spren left, and war started. I think the Raboniel quote supports the following order: war started -> spren left -> they started to use Surges. But I don't think Dawnsinger Stoneshaping is the result of Surges, that is more similar to how Parshendi were growing plants, singing to them and playing music to increase growth rate, something not limited to a specific spren bond. I also think spren have never granted surges of any kind to Singers.

That's a good take on that. I love that one. The idea that Stonewards will struggle with accepting defeat or retreat fits them just perfectly. For Stonewards you gave me the idea, not about protection, that's too similar to Windrunners, but about working as a unit. Second ideal suggest that they will stand alone (as others fall). Third ideal might embrace that they can stand together, as a foundation, stand as a unit with others. Forth is about accepting that sometimes retreating is necessary. But I have no idea about fifth one. I think this idea fits Taln (who wasn't Stoneward however) - he was always choosing the worst positions to fight, he was winning them, but dying in the process, unwilling to retreat. And ultimately he withstood 4500 years of torture, alone, never breaking, and was happy about opportunities he have to humans. He was the embodiment of Stonewards 2nd Ideal.

That's a good observation. He does struggle with that more and more.

I gave up a long time ago and I'm pronouncing it like a weird mix of English, Polish and however Brandon is pronouncing it - "Se-ze" with "e" pronounced like "e" in "bet". Kelsier is easy for me, it's almost the same pronunciation in Polish as in Brandonish.

No Drehy and Dru (Druhy?)? Disappointed!! Navaniel - that's so toxic, they were lying to, plotting against, spying on and literally tried to kill each other, one of them even succeeded. Even Moadin isn't that toxic yet! Tbf all ships listed except Rlain and Renarin (Rlarin? Rlainarin? Reain? How to call it?) are toxic!

Check out this WoB and click the play button on the right side of it to hear Brandon's pronunciation, but go to the link: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127/#e5227 Sazed is better: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127/#e5221

Did you think about Dalinar's 3rd Ideal as a progression of his 2nd? He will unite as a leader, but he will make mistakes and he will take responsibility for them trying to fix them and learn from them to be a better leader. That's too similar to Windrunners' 3rd. And Dalinar doesn't struggle with that. He has no problems with accepting that there are those who chose the other side. He fully accepted that and he's never stopped to worry about it. There is no conflict for Dalinar to swear that Ideal. Him dealing with Ialai in RoW is enough proof.

You can still do it, Cosmere spoilers:

Not at all. You just need greed and laziness. Many would want to conquer and plunder instead of farming and building. It's easier - for them. That's human nature. We have greed in our genes. Those people would just ignore what they were given and raise their hands to grab what Singers have, because for them it's easier to take a life, than to provide for their families all year round. That's what was said in OB - humans can't be satisfied with what they were given. Easier? Did Honor create farms full of crops to accommodate them? Highly doubt it. Singers provided them with the majority of the food which for me is the most likely explanation. And humans, like humans, would quickly say "they're giving us the worst food they have, keeping the best for themself, don't we deserve to have that instead?". Farming takes time, the whole year. "During the late middle ages, around 20 acres were needed to support a family of 5 people for a year." And all farming at that time was done by hand, manually, no machinery, even usage of animals wasn't that common as many couldn't afford an ox or mule. Farming is a very labor intensive job. Add to that herding and building their own house in the meantime, with resources you need to collect yourself, and you have a lot to do, with not enough time to do all of that. That's the assumption they're making, but even Stormfather can't answer that question as he wasn't fully aware at that time yet. I think that's the wrong assumption as it is impossible to conquer a continent the size of Asia in a single generation - even Mongols didn't do that. I think that the spren betrayal was happening during the First Desolation, when Singers were needing them the most. That's why it is the betrayal. Singers likely ask spren to grant the Surges so they can fight off the invasion, spren denied because they were already attracted to very expressive humans, thus Singers turned to Odium. They needed to be really desperate to turn to Odium, who was a Void, towards the Void of which they had been warned. The only thing that confuses me are those words from the Song of Secrets: "The betrayal of spren has brought us here. They gave their Surges to human heirs" but we know spren gave Surges to humans AFTER Heralds were already established, because they were mimicking their powers, maybe even in next Desolations. That requires Fused to already exist before the betrayal had happened, as Heralds were created in response to Fused, but Singers turned to Odium who made them Fused in response to "betrayal of spren who gave their Surges to humans" which doesn't make sense. That's a close loop. I can even write about it for it to make sense. -> Fused created -> Heralds created -> "betrayal of spren, Surges were given to humans" -> Singers turned to Odium -> back to the begining Am I missing something here?

Mmmmmm, yeeees, such tasty theorizing I love it! Read and find out!

Voidbinding wasn't "fully explored in the past": Which means there were Voidbinders in the past, but they barely scratch the surface of it.

While using Well's power directly to kill a human is impossible, using its power to fuel Allomancy and kill a human with it, like with pewter or steel, would be very possible. Just like normal Allomancy kills a lot of people despite being fueled directly by Preservation. I was going to make that argument but realized we're talking about Allomancy being powered by the Well, not just using the Well.

Yeah, like cometaryorbit said, that was Vasher's response only to Kaladin's "you died" question. He just listed a set of characters that died, not all of them needed to be CS. Vasher likely just saw Szeth one day, saw his soul being dragged behind, maybe heard Nightblood's voice in his head calling him, and he freaked out that his best mistake he had ever made came to haunt him back, but drew the correct conclusions that Szeth died. For Vasher dying and coming back is a "completely normal phenomenon" while for Kaladin this is unheard of and deeply disturbing. Vasher just said "it's not weird at all, your friend Szeth died too". That's for me the most likely scenario (with 99.9% probability that this is the truth).

There are 2 confirmed planets with spaceships - Scadrial and Sel (or at least only Riina). That's all we know. It's really hard to speculate. But If Roshar considers Scadrial as an enemy, but does not engage them in open war, that means Scadrial poses a considerable threat to Roshar, and vice versa. I like to think that in Era 4 Metalic Arts would not only be publicly accessible, but also fully fueled by unkeyed investiture and would be able to manipulate fundamental forces rivaling Surgebinding on equal terms (WoB). Then we have fresh advancement on Scadrial with creating non-lethal "customizable" spikes, with a comment hinting at the possibility of creating fully synthetic spikes. But in case of Roshar, SotD2 spoilers: And just like on Scadrial we've seen only 2 alloys of Atium out of 16, on Roshar we've seen only 1 type of Voidbinding (if it is what Renarin is doing) and 1 type of Lifebending (if it is what Lift is doing) out of 10. In both cases there is a huge potential for some incredible powers. Powers that we have no clue what they can even do. And add to this Breaths and Awakened circuits, or Awakened fabrials/medallions/spikes etc. Another possibility which can result in crazy combinations of powers. We've only have hints of what awaits us in the future, that's why it is so hard to speculate what even a future war will look like, not to mention who will win. Base on the fact that Roshar and Scadrial seem to be in a state of a cold war, they both have access to weapons of mass destruction and fear mutually assured destruction (as they're focusing on colonizing the largest amount of minor worlds but backing off if the other side has already colonized a planet first), there would be no winners in an open war between those two. Only losers.

I don't really have an argument for that. I just don't think that's possible. I think limiting ways of killing sprens to just Nightblood, Anti-Investiture, Hemalurgic spikes or possibly silver is a good thing. Mostly because of this WoB (but keep in mind aluminum Allomantically works differently than Hemalurgically):

No if those "switchable" Aons in the city of Elantris were written by Elantrians themself, which is the case. This might allow other Elantrians to turn them on and off, but they need to be written by some Elantrian in the first place.

Good point, but here it is a willing decision of both spren and Heralds, just like, Mistborn spoilers:

Era 4? You're going very, very far away. The only thing we know about Era 4 is that Scadrial and Roshar are hostile towards each other but not in a state of open war yet, Scadrial has spaceships which use Metallic arts, Roshar can traverse space with their Radiant powers, and that's it. All of that is from SotD and SotD2 only.

I believe not every Aon can be reused, some will consume themself. I think there was a WoB on that, but I can't find it. But I've found the WoB that Aons need to be drawn by Elantrians to begin with, they can't outsource it to non-Elantrians:

I believe Elantrian simply touching Aons with the intent to activate it will work. Otherwise those "switchable" Aons that are already built in Elantris wouldn't make sense. With this I was referring to the Elantris book, when Raoden needed to have an intent to draw Aons for lines to appear. Without them lines wouldn't appear. But that was in the air. On the ground/paper etc, it doesn't need to work like that, as WoB stated.

How does your idea of the 3rd Ideal fits with Edgedancers you airsick lowlander? For Edgedancers it's a progression of the 2nd Ideal, from "I will remember those who have been forgotten. " to "I will listen to those who have been ignored.". For Skybreakers it is also a progression, from seaking a general justice, to dedicating themself to specific code or person: "I swear to seek justice, to let it guide me, until I find a more perfect Ideal." -> "I swear to follow the will of Dalinar Kholin. This is my oath.". For Bondsmiths it's about self realization, from uniting people, to taking responsibility for their actions (that being said, Bondsmiths might have very personalized Ideals, not fitting any pattern). With the 4th Ideal I agree, it's about contradiction. But in the case of Skybreakers it's not just about choosing their own desire, but to choose a specific purpose they should follow, not general justice of 2nd Ideal, not a wide legal code of 3rd Ideal, but a specific goal, very narrow and very precise section of the law - this prepares them for 5th Ideal, choosing their own goal depending on their own definition of justice, trusting in their own judgment. 4th Ideal for Skybreaker is about realization that they can ignore most of the law (or commands of the person they chose to follow) and focus on a specific part of it, like fighting against "false leaders of Shinovar", which will teach them that they can decide themself what is just and lawful to do on the 5th Ideal, without any need for a legal code to follow. Just like Nale decided that killing Radiants is a rightful thing to do, trusting in his own judgment. And what about 5th Ideal? Any ideas?

No no no no no. Intent matters at the beginning. You need to intend to draw an Aon to even draw it. Aons appear as a line of lights, as soon as you start drawing them. Whole Aon needs to be drawn by Elantrian, not just the end. The chasm line isn't "the switch", it's just another part of an Aon, which can be added to all Aons composing the Aon you're drawing. To be clear, I’m opposing the idea that the chasm line is like a switch. That being said, you likely could outsource drawing of Aons, whole Aons. And there is a WoB confirming that Aons can be "switched'' like you said and turned on by Elantrian. So "computers" made out of Aons already exist in Elantris with a switch for Elandtrians to turn it on and off. The question however remains, do all Aons in such drawing/circuit need to be drawn by Elantrains or anybody can do that and Elantrain needs to only touch it with intention to activate that Aon?

Szeth can't kill Ishar without breaking his 3th Ideal and killing his spren, losing the ability to draw in Stormlight and feed Nightblood with it. And Ishar is a really good fighter, better than Szeth I think, now he will know what Nightblood can do and will find a way to avoid him. Bondsmith unbounded is per WoB more dangerous than Nightblood. That's why it's good Kaladin is going with him, as he would be able to keep Szeth on a morally good path. But you also raised a good point. There would be a lot of internal conflicts for Szeth, and external conflicts with Kaladin. Szeth will want to kill corrupted leaders of Shinovar, while Kaladin will want to prevent this. We know that ancient Windrunners and Skybreakers were already heavily conflicted with each other, and I think Szeth and Kal together will be in conflict too. But I also think Kaladin would play more or less a therapist role for Szeth, helping him overcome his madness and depression. Now I just thought about something else, when it comes to healing Heralds. Do you think BAM can form a bond with them and restore their minds?

Destroying the Spren? I don't think that would work even with the power of the Well.