alder24

Double post, but I've just found this quote where Dalinar said holding "Taln's" Shardblade seems somehow wrong to him, WoR ch 76: It looks like Dalinar is another example of pre-Radiant Fortune and connection interference. He even turned towards Stormfather and the Origin.

Stormspren, who came from Everstorm closing in on Roshar in CR. RoW ch 86: That wasn't Venli but Demid: Yes, because songs don't tell how Fused entered Singers' body and Ulim had lied to her. In this very chapter Venli calls Fused Listeners gods - quote is in my post above. I think the bigger detail that songs leave out is how to take a new form, like a workform. Wouldn't you say that's more important? We know songs omitted multiple details, it's not surprising that they omitted what Fused did with Singer's body but still call them terrible at every occasion. But they also talked about the origins of Fused in Songs of Secrets. Conflict isn't equal to Desolation. There was no major conflict between Singers and Humans before the False Desolation because spren weren't massively bonding with humans, like what happened in the response to the False Desolation. And Singers without forms of power stood no chance against the small force of Radiants present. Only quote from WoR? Really? OB prologue doesn't count? Where Gavilar said "your gods bring my gods" and Eshonai said "we abandon those gods, they tried to destroy you". Or OB ch 55, of Rlain saying that his people were transformed into incarnations of their gods isn't proof? And what are Fused? Incarnations in Singers body. Again, If the Last Legion was during the False Desolation, by this time Singers would simply forget about Fused and all forms that came from Voidspren, as Listeners songs were created when the Last Legion abandoned Odium. The songs clearly talked about Fused as one of Singers gods, how they command Singers and how Singers always obey, and in detail describe every form of power Singers had. We saw in OB that Fused and Voidspren command Singers, not Unmades, so this checks out, as there were no Fused nor Voidspren on Roshar during the False Desolation. I think both OB and RoW give us enough proofs that the Last Legion abandoned Odium during or before Aharietiam, not later. Even WoR said "Warriors, touched by the gods" not "the god" - only BAM was providing forms of power to Singers during the False Desolation, one god, not many, not even Odium was able to reach Roshar back then. If you both still disagree, it's better to drop it as we won't reach a conclusion that will satisfy all of us.

Medallions seem to already be limited in the way you're talking about. Iron medallion only allows you to store weight, brass one allows you to tap it (while Firemothers and Firefathers can store in them) etc. We haven't saw a medallion being both tapped and stored. TLM ch 9: Yes and yes. But "anyone" here involves only Feruchemist. A person without power won't be able to use them, even a nicrosil blanked metalmind. It isn't a medallion yet. So there is a first difference between nicrosil Ferring and nicrosil medallion. In a medallion nicrosil works like a coppermind - you tap and gain the power and it won't run out. Medallions are more limited than what Ferrings can do with their nicrosilminds, and those likely work like any other medalmind, e.g. steelmind. Creating a blanked nicrosilmind isn't a way to make anyone able to use them - only Ferruchemists or nicrosil Ferrings will be able to use them. Medallions have something more than that. Both connection and identity are involved. Medallions are a bit self-aware, have an identity of their own and this is likely what allows everyone to use them. And somehow hemalurgy makes them easier to make. But we still don't know how to make them. I don't believe that during the process of making medallions, Feruchemist permanently gives up his power - Metalborn in the Malwish are very rare, and if they just lost their powers everytime they made a medallion, there wouldn't be that many medallions in use. Whatever happens, something makes the nicrosil portion of medallion work like a coppermind, not like a steelmind (which I strongly believe that's how regular nicrosilminds work). The more I think about nicrosil medallions the more I think it works like a hemalurgic spike - it short circuits the power into your soul, it acts like it holds a piece of soul, not just kinetic investiture that would run out.

Kandra are far more resilient to a Shardblade cut than others. It's hard to kill them with one, and they can shift cut body parts to negate damage done to them. They can even heal cut parts. Edit: @Treamayne

Yeah, something like that. Sounds plausible, but I don't think it tried to become Yoki-Hijo, or that becoming Yoki-Hijo somehow drains people out of their investiture, rather than Spirits simply connect to that person or invest them. I think the machine was programmed to draw investiture from every soul connected to Virtuosity (per WoB, every Torian likely has a bit of innate investiture that came from Virtuosity, and thus is connected to her) but because nobody specified souls to be only Hijo (which are Splinters of Virtuosity, and thus have huge connection to Virtuosity), it drew from everyone connected to Virtuosity on the planet. This means that the nomad people, who were spared of this, weren't connected to Virtuosity. This ties up with your idea, as only Torio people are sufficiently connected to Virtuosity to become Yuki-Hijo.

Which were also trapped with Fused on Braize. And I've already proven with numerous quotes that Fused are their gods... Because this region of Rohar is abandoned by all after the shattering of Stormseat. Even their songs said that the Last Legion was sent to fight in the farthest plains. And we have no idea what Singers did in the meantime. When and where she was clueless? She defended her ancestorswith knowledge... You need to start providing quotes or at least chapter numbers. It's really hard to remember everything from 4 books, each 1500 pages long. RoW ch 52: RoW ch 73: Songs omitted many other things, like how to take a new form... Control doesn't have to be literal, just Fused ordering Singers around is control. The soul of ancient. Spren aren't souls of ancient, Fused are, Fused literally are the souls that were left from what used to be an ancient Singer. And I've provided you with tons of other quotes that further my claim. Another proof was at the end of the Last Desolation. This quote said "wars", the False Desolation was 2000 years after the Last Desolation, which was the last war of many wars which were one shortly after another. The False Desolation was a lonely conflict, without a chain of wars right before it. RoW ch 11:

No, you're wrong. The Last Legion had to leave Odium before or during Aharietiam. That's why they are mentioned so many times in their songs. They were familiar with both Fused, Voidspren and forms of powers, which all were included in their songs. Venli was deceived because she desired power, she desired to be a queen, despite warnings from songs. That's what I'm arguing here about. If that happened during the False Desolation, then Listeners wouldn't abandon their gods, Fused, as by this time they would have no idea who they were. They wouldn't have called Unmades as one of many gods they've abandoned. Because Vanli and others call Fused so many times as the gods they've abandoned, the Last Legion must have left Odium before Aharietiam ended, with Fused still on Roshar. WoR ch 78:

That won't work. Firstly pulling someone into a vision is different than influencing someone directly in PR. Even Odium needs to have a strong connection to bring someone into a vision. Secondly if Odium were to somehow physically manifest in the Tower, he would overwhelm the Sibling - but that would work only for him, every Fused attempting to enter the Tower would still be suppressed - just like Kaladin was able to break through Tower's defenses, while other Radiants weren't. But I highly doubt Odium would be able to do that. Shards are limited in what they can do, this is a direct intervention and would be opposed by Cultivation. Moreover he is trapped on Braize, his power is limited. The words "he could go himself to the Tower" are meaningless, he's a Shard, he's omnipresent, he already is in the Tower - but still is limited in his interactions, because he needed not only Everstorm but also an open window to talk to Taravangian. The Sibling in their weakened state was strong enough to limit Odium's influence, now it would be even harder for Odium. He is generally stronger, but also bounded. Bringing somebody into a vision is different than physically interacting with them.

I can't find that quote. Venli said something different, RoW ch 115: Unmades were already on Roshar,they couldn't return, Fused weren't, they returned. Fused are gods of Singers too. This quote, which I've already quoted in the previous post, literally said that 9 Unmades were just one of many gods of Singers. They weren't THE gods, but just AMONG the gods. Fused are counted as those gods too. OB prologue: Return of Fused is what allowed Heralds to be back on Roshar. Gavilar calls BAM a spren, not a god (she is one of their gods, among Fused). OB ch 48: Ch 51: Ch 55: I-6, most definite proof: I-11: ch 111: ch 115: ch 116: Listener gods were both Fused and Unmades. They had to have contact with Fused because they included them in their songs "Our gods were born splinters of a soul,/Of one who seeks to take control."

There isn't really any Cosmere official reading order (publication order is the best we have), but there are some books that are connected with others, reading them will help you understand other books better. I think if you already started to read Mistborn Era 2 you should continue reading it through. You can read The Eleventh Metal now as that's a really short story. After Alloy of Law (AoL) is Shadows of Self (SoS), then Bands of Mourning (BoM) but then you definitely need to read Mistborn: Secret History (SH). You could read Elantris and Emperor's Soul before reading Secret History, as those will help you greatly with understanding some concepts that will appear in SH and in the last book. Warbreaker can be read after SH but it's advisable to read it before The Lost Metal (TLM). Either you read The Stormlight Archive series (SA - which is very big) before TLM or after it's up to you. Because TLM was released last year, after 4 main books of SA it's technically advisable to know it before reading TLM but I think it really depends on many factors, like your reading speed, how much time for reading do you have, how well you remember books, your current immersion in Mistborn world etc. If you were to drop Mistborn Era 2 before the very last book to spend a year reading SA (because it's really huge) forgetting half of Mistborn stuff, I think it's better to just finish Era 2 as there isn't that much stuff from SA in TLM. You don't need to be familiar with SA to understand and enjoy TLM, but there are certainly some connections between those two, which you will notice reading either of those series. I personally would just finish Mistborn at this point and then jump into SA, because that's a very long series. Before jumping into SA it's good to read Warbreaker.

Mentioned in RoW ch 75:

I bet Brandon knows it - his assistant, Peter Ahlstrom, minored in astronomy while at the university, he does math and physics for Brandon. They certainly are aware of that, and the simplest solution is the one you've proposed. But in the book one reactor can just do that, so we have to excuse them for using some kind of unknown sci-fi tech.

That storm is a really cool concept. But if they erase everything on their path, what is happening with the ground and stone itself? Wouldn't that mean that those storms will slowly grind the entire planet down to nothing? How fast are those storms? The same with this. Wouldn't that mean that the constant storm will literally make a hole in the ground? It would constantly turn the surface layer of the rock into investiture. If that's true I think a planet with a giant hole in it (not that deep, a few km or something) and the land being scared by trench where storms came through would look really cool. Hold up a minute. I've done some very quick math, and your moon's orbit is 2.415e+6 km long, with speed being 39 thousand km/s. Wouldn't this mean that this moon orbits the planet every 60 seconds???? Am I crazy or just stupid? Earth's Moon orbital velocity is just ~1 km/s. This world looks very promising, I can't wait for you to develop it more.

Yes, Soulcaster's spren likely weren't bound to Radiant when Recreance happened. Those spren chose to manifest physically as fabrials because people asked them to. RoW ch 46: Shardplates are made out of dead spren (they were bonded to their Radiant), but those are content so they don't scream. RoW I-1:

That's wrong. You're equating Rosharan year to Earth's year, without accounting for difference in the value of a second. Rosharan second is 1,15708824 Earth's second. 500 Rosharan days isn't equal to Earth's year, but that's what your equasion means. You need to multiply the right side by 1.1 (because Rosharan year is 10% longer) to get the accurate value - for your 365.2422 days year it's still 69425,23738 seconds per day. The differences are really small depending on the value of Earth's year we used (there are some even more accurate). Just think of it; a difference in 4 place after the period won't make a change in a range of 8000 or something. My leap year is based on the Gregorian calendar - less accurate but we're basing Rosharan period on Rosharan calendar, so I think that's more comparable. Another way you could get that is to take the "Orbital Period: 34,689,600 seconds (1.1 Earth Years)" and divide it by 500, which gives 69379,2 seconds per day. But your value of orbital period isn't accurate, as that's what I was referring to while pointing out leap years. This value was calculated by using 365 days per year, not accounting for a leap years (365*24*60*60*1,1=34 689 600, while 365,2522*24*60*60*1,1= 34 712 618,69). This is easy to spot because your value ends with 0 and it lacks numbers after the period - they should be there because we both want to use an accurate year so we won't get a full number of seconds. Dramatically change? Not really. Earth's equatorial radius is just 21 km larger than polar, which is just 7 km larger than the mean radius. Even when I gave Roshar 20 km larger radius at the equator than its mean radius, it only changed its equatorial velocity by just 6.4 km/h. Not much at all. Barely noticeable and it's in the range of a good approximation. Giving it +7 km, it makes it just 2.2 km/h faster. You can just round the value to tenth digit at it will be just fine. That was a joke, sorry

Umm it is. Origins of words night and knight are totally different, google: Congrats, I wish you at least another 40! Ignoring the origins of both words, there is this theory (not only my theory), that Dalinar will lose the Contest of Champions, this will hurt Stormfather or even deadeye him, stopping the Highstorm cycle, causing endless Weeping with no Stormlight - thus "night" of some sorts. There are numerous Death Rattles that support this theory and other foreshadowings, one very important is this one:

I would say only in front of you. You could look down at the center of your mass/self and see some lines moving, thus knowing someone is there, is getting closer or stuff like that, But I don't think it was ever said it's 360 degrees vision. Marsh in WoA was sneak attacked by Ham from Marsh's back, if Marsh had 360 degrees vision, he would have easily avoided that. And I remember inquisitors turning their heads to look directly at Kel/Vin.

It was literally explained in this topic and few others. Quoting from other topic: 0 - Rashek gained detailed understanding of Allomancy when he held the power of the Well - he would simply told kings about Snapping. Snapping caused by Mists was activated when the Well was getting almost full, when the Well was used by Rasher, Mists stopped snapping people, as the danger was averted. Plus before Rashek's Ascension people didn't know they were turned into Allomancers by Mists - even Alendi who heard the pulses of the Well because he was a Seeker, didn't know that at all. Allomancy was almost fully unknown before Rashek's Ascension. It's easy to froget when poeple didn't know it in the first place. Yes. This is a Mistborn forum only, please edit your post and put everything not about Mistborn in a Spoiler box. You can do it by: SA spoilers: That was certainly an interesting opinion of yours. I've enjoyed reading it.

No, you don't. But it's hard. I'm taking perfect lifesense/pitch/color recognition, it's the best option and would make the whole world so much more awesome.

You're using a calculator? I use my own messy excel, where I barely can find anything now. I’ll check this for you. Roshar year is 500 days long, a day is 20h long, an hour is 50 minutes long, and assuming seconds are unchanging 1 min is 60 seconds, that means Rosharan year is 30 mil seconds long. Therefore Rosharan orbit is 1,021564378 AU away from its sun. If 1 min is 50 seconds, then it's 0,9046451172 AU. But going with "Rosharan year is only 10% longer than the cosmere standard" gives 34 712 647,2 seconds in a year (I've included more precise year measurement as 1 year = 365,2425 days, because of leap years, you can't ignore them, but there are even more precise values than that) - that means their callender isn't accurate with their orbital period (as Rosharan calendar year is shorter, not longer, than Earth's orbital year, which is ~31.6 mil seconds, or I did something wrong which is very, very likely (I did, going in reverse a bit later, it looks like Rosharan hour is ~57,85 Earth's minutes long and then that gives the correct value of seconds in a year (34.7 mil sec) - and this roughly checks out with this WoB (this was with a year = 365 days, not accurate enough) - so their calendar is aligned with planet's orbit, but their hour is ~57.85 Earth minutes long, and that's 50 Rosharan minutes (Rosharan second is ~ 1,157 Earth's seconds long) - I don't even want to go into how confusing that is...)). In this case Rosharn orbit is at 1,125926551 AU. And I think that's the correct number. You would get this if you accounted for leap years. I can't believe you were off by so much . In my case it was 0.004 AU less than what you've got. I wonder why as I've used your luminosity value. I still disagree I calculated it for you. Equator is 35583 km long (or at least the average circumference) and I used 3 values for a day (2 are the same but with a different method just to check as it was done before I've calculated real value for Rosharan hour in Earth's minutes) - one is 20h*50 Rosharan min (57.8 Earth's minutes)*60sec and that gave rotational velocity at the equator equal to 1845,131535 km/h. Your length of day (where did you get that number? I got 69425,2944 sec, ~0.804) and that gave me 2029,646384 km/h, and my calculated earlier length of year divided by 500 ~ 69425,2944 sec per day gave me 1845,131535 km/h (the same as the first one). You should add more info from Coppermind like radius or circumference.

My counterargument to this is that Vasher would certainly know that this is possible and would use it in his fight, particularly Audible Awakening and Mental Commands. Just because some are scalable, doesn't mean everything is. You should have quoted the full paragraph: "There are exceptions to this, like Color Distortion which is unique to the Tenth Heightening." Command Breaking is very different from Audible Awakening and Mental Commands, which someone like Susebron was able to perform without any issues once he recovered his tongue. Command Breaking even for Susebron would take some time to perform. Those aren't that comparable in my opinion. And what do you mean "Vasher doesn't really need to do those things"? When he was strangled by Denth's ropes it would be pretty handy for him to Awaken just with his voice so he could retrieve his Breaths from other objects - he was caught because he could Awaken at the distance. Warbreaker ch 51: Vasher is the most knowledgeable Awakener living, he experimented with higher Heightenings for a long time, he held 50000 Breaths himself. If it was possible to perform those abilities without higher Heightenings, Vasher would try this at least once in the book. It was establish as soon as in the prologue: ch 51: If that was anyone else than Vasher talking, I would give you a point. But Vasher knows that stuff too well to be mistaken, he would have tried this, especially knowing that Command Breaking doesn't require 8th Heightening. We won't convince each other here, it's better to drop it and accept that we have different opinions, instead of repeating the same arguments over and over again. True. I wonder how they are made. But we can stop turning this thread into a full blown discussion about Yumi. Yes, Lifeless are Lifeless, no matter the amount of Breaths used for Awakening. They have identity of their own, preventing Breaths recovery: ch 46 Also I've just noticed, the way he talks in this chapter about Awakening bones seems to indicate that he at least once Awaken them as type 3 entities, not as Lifeless. I'm not saying that Kalad's phantoms are type 3, but that's interesting.

You had to be really bored, but I appreciate the math. Rosharan's sun angular size wouldn't be noticeably smaller than our Sun's - the Moon's angular size changes by ~10% from 0,491° on its closest to 0,548° when it's the furthest away from the Earth - this isn't something that you can see with the naked eye. Sun's angular size changes by 0.02° too, from 0,52° to 0,54°. The difference between Rosharan's sun size and Earth's Sun size is the same as between Moon's sizes and that's ~0.05° - you won't see it unless you compare two really good photos with no sun flares.

Dragonsteel is so silvery that it can be mistaken with silver, Tress ch 51: Coppermind did specify its color: "It looks silvery and can appear liquid in the right light." https://coppermind.net/wiki/Dragonsteel_(metal) But Harmonium is hard to find. In BoM ch 22 it glows white but that is when the primer cube is charged In TLM ch 15 it describes how two sides of heated and pulled apart Harmonium glows like Atium/Lerasium, but nothing on Harmonium's color: I can't find anything about the normal color of Harmonium. Because Harmonium is super-cesium in terms of reactivity, I would make it look like cesium or just metallic whiteish/silvery (because it glows white in primer cubes).

Lightsong and Returned in Gods court - It's Tough to Be A God Dalinar meeting with Cultivation - Starset - My Demons

Maybe but last part of the WoB strongly suggests to me the opposite: For Vasher to make them motionless but still standing he would have to take away some of their Breaths - he can't if only bones are invested like you're saying, you can't recover Breaths from a lifeless. Vasher needed a way to recover some of his Breaths to make them motionless - that means that the stone itself needed to be Awakened as a type 3 entity. Otherwise it would make no sense that "Vasher left them not invested enough to move" and that they need "substantial influx of Breath" to move. I disagree. Breath Recognition, Greater Awakening, Audible Command, Color Distortion (arguable), Perfect Invocation, and Mental Command weren't shown to be available to some partially before reaching those high Heightenings. People like Vasher, who experimented with stone and steel a lot in his life, would certainly know if that was a possibility and he would have tried this during Warbreaker scenes at least once (Audible Command and Mental Command would be very handy when he was fighting against Denth's mercenaries). A construct like this would still have self-awareness and some degree of sentience that fabrial simply lacks. Fabrial isn't invested per say, it only holds Stormlight (which does nothing alone) and spren (which does nothing alone), only combining them together you have an effect - Awakened objects need just Breaths. We need Brandon to classify this properly for us. Answering to SP3 spoiler: