alder24

Oh I'm not denying that Night Brigade isn't important, but I'm talking about the potential volume of the book - I doubt it would be like Warbreaker. You can still introduce important groups and concepts in a relatively small novel - Dawnshard for example. True, I wish there was a Rashek novela or something like that. But you have to be careful with those sorts of things - I don't want to have books for every backstory, as some serve better as obscure and forgotten in history. Then we run into a problem of making a backstory for a backstory, and even writing those sorts of stories is challenging, as we all know how it ends and where it's going - it isn't as engaging as a fresh story.

Unfortunately, the most recent WoB said abilities gained through Hemalurgy aren't passed down genetically:

I don't think that's possible. The strength of Koloss comes from his spikes, which drafts pieces of souls into his soul. You can't spike out those pieces, as they're already in the spike. While spiking Koloss for strength, you would spike out his base human strength, not any attribute that is added with spikes. If that Koloss survives, he would be a weird Koloss as if he was made with 3 spikes, not 4 (because he would lose his base strength). But you wouldn't get that strength that came from his spikes, and I don't think even from physical deformations, as those are the effect of spikes. But the spike itself would be messy as rust - you're still spiking a Koloss, and if in HoA Koloss reusing spikes were somehow able to make themselves more human, then that spike would make you more Rashek-Koloss like, less human. You do not want to have such a spike.

Welcome to the Shard. While I'm not a big fan of that theory, Gavinor has a really strong urge to avenge his father, and also suffers trauma. Odium might somehow exploit those feelings and make them stronger. They might make a deal, Odium will give him Moash so he could kill him, but Gavinor has to become his champion (and talk to his uncle to make him surrender). Or something like that - that's the only way I see Gavinor agreeing. RoW ch 16:

Good to hear that. Strength before weakness! I don't really see how you reach that conclusion. What this WoB says is that Brandon doesn't have outlines for the future of Cosmere. They will sit down and do them, to know where characters are heading, how certain events will play out, they will finally do a proper timeline of Cosmere and stuff like that. They won't drop anything, especially something like Nightblood, which is a vital link between SA and Warbreaker, explaining far more complicated Awakening processes, origins of Nightblood and Vasher - and we know that Awakening will play a big role in the future of Cosmere, this book is necessary. Writing some smaller novellas like Threnody 2 will only depend if he will find time for that. We know he wants to write SA 1.5 for a while but can't really find time for that. The worse possibility will be that he will coauthor this with somebody else, but he was able to write 5 books in secret so I'm not worried about that. I highly doubt that Brandon will cut books that were already teased to us. I think they will rather realize "we're introducing a new fraction here, we need to explain their origins, we need a book for that" or something like that - more books rather than less. That's basically what Brandon did with Mistborn era 2. Dan writes horrors (as far as I know) so a book about Sleepless written by Dan can be really good. This one scene from SA with them was a quite good horror scene and presenting them like that can be really interesting.

I second @Treamayne, Mistborn Annotations contain lots of information that would clear up some confusion and explore the world more. Skaa weren't captives, they were an enslaved class of society. Like Serfs in Tsarist Russia but worse. All Skaa were the property of the Lord Ruler, used by nobles. Most of them were living on plantations, others were working in mines or factories in cities, only a lucky few were allowed to have their own workshops, like Clubs. But he was still Skaa, still a property of the Lord Ruler. He didn't need to gather them, they were all already his. It doesn't matter what was produced on plantations, it wasn't one thing, the empire needed everything, from plant-based food, animal products to plant-based fabrics etc - those would be grown in plantations. The purpose of plantations in the story is to show how badly Skaa are treated. We know how TLM was recruiting so many soldiers - paying them. Skaa who wanted to have a better quality of life could draft into the army and get paid more. That's simply. Of course most Skaa despise the army, but some would be desperate enough to join and serve. Koloss were kept on the outskirts of the empire, near its borders, far away from population centers. It was explained in TFE and WoA. Beyond the borders of the Final Empire there were people living who defiled the rule of the Lord Ruler, having their own party, threatening the region - that's why Koloss were kept close to borders to fight those people, and suppress rebellions (as that far away from the center of the empire, people were more willing to rebel). We know how Ruin affected Terris people, even before his release - inquisitors attack them and imprison all Keepers, to spike them later. While Ruin was still imprisoned at that time, we know from the example of Marsh that he had some level of control over them, and from SH we know he was constantly talking to them, influencing their actions. Terrisans escaped this and settled near the Pits of Hathsin, given to them by Elend. They mostly remained isolated from what was happening in the world until Ruin realized where Atium was. We also know what Ruin was doing in other Dominances - Udeau and Fadrex for example. Mostly earthquakes, volcano eruptions and disasters like that, with many people in power spiked like Quellion or Penrod (he tried to spike Yomen but failed). But those two things aren't really relevant to the story, we saw from different PoV that destruction is happening everywhere, but our focus was on Vin/Elend and Sazed/Spook. We know how Inquisitors were "damaging the world" under Ruin's control - they were serving as his pawns, spiking people in power (like Penrod), killing Allomancers and Feruchemist to gain more powers, commanding army of Koloss - but mostly focusing on Elend and Vin. It was presented to us in HoA from Marsh PoV. That's ok, you don't have to care about them, they serve different purposes in the story - to provide information necessary for the climax. Alendi's story foreshadows that the Lord Ruler is Rashek, while Kwaan's plate straight up tells you "not to trust anything that wasn't written in metal" and that Vin can't release the power. They aren't there so you should care about them, but draw connections between past events and present events. That's fair, Rashek is a conflicting person. He did many evil things in his life, but Sazed's claim comes from the fact that ultimately he was fighting against Ruin while being slowly driven to madness by him, and he did everything he could to ensure survival of his people, that despite abusive rule, he still cared about their survival. He created a plan that would distract Ruin and hid his Atium, he left messages in the caves for people to gain new powers/information, he created those caves to allow his people to live a few days longer. Of course that doesn't negate 1000 years of tyrannical rule and countless deaths he caused, you don’t have to agree that he was a good person, as we have solid arguments that he wasn’t. But his goals were good - to save humanity from Ruin. Give them a chance. We do know what was Rashak's personality - jealous and angry man, despising everything that is from different lands and not accepting that someone so weak like Alendi can be a Hero of Ages. We also have the message left on the last plate, while his methods or rule were definitely cruel and evil, his goals to preserve humanity were good and he was constantly under Ruin's influence. No, Preservation programmed Mists to snap people without his control and mind, they were doing what Preservation told them to do - but Ruin influenced that and made them stronger, causing more deaths. I get that, that's partially because Ruin already thought he won and he couldn't foresee his defeat. That's why he became "sloppy" and began to gloat. But in WoA Ruin was almost absent - only changes in text and one Mistspirit were a clue that something was manipulating them, not much more. HoA ch 57: The precognition part is very important. Just like with Mistborn burning Atium, he can see a clear future only when nobody is also burning Atium - Preservation had his own future vision and was disrupting Ruin's precognition, making it very hard for him to predict what will happen. He could still see certain events and outcomes, but they were more uncertain, because of Preservation's presence. That's because all of his power was thrown to oppose Preservation and vice versa. He was incomplete and that's why he couldn't act. His power was binded in an eternal struggle of balance. Just like when Vin was trying to do something as Preservation and Ruin opposed her, but she was able to use a tiny bit of her power to talk to Elend, that's what Ruin was able to do - use only a tiny bit of his power that slipped behind Preservation's power and influence the world that way. Not a lot. That's why he needed Atium so badly because then he would finally be stronger than Preservation: HoA ch 76: ch 77: Another reason why Ruin wasn't able to predict his death was because he was blinded by Shard's intent - he couldn't believe that Preservation would even be able to act against his intent - kill - just like Ruin couldn't preserve against his intent. This belief was caused by the amount of time Ati was holding Ruin - this warped his mind and aligned it closer to Ruin's intent, until Ati wasn't able to even to perceive that any Vessel would be able to act against Shard's intent. And because he didn't believe this is possible, he didn't search for that with his precognition, completely missing this outcome and road to it. No Shard is inherently good or evil. Preservation is perceived as a good guy because he sacrificed everything to protect people from Ruin. Ruin wasn't evil, they made a deal and Ruin just wanted that deal to be fulfilled. If anything, one can argue that Preservation was a bad guy here, because he had broken the deal and imprisoned Ruin, to prevent him from doing what's rightfully his. Keep in mind, in SH Preservation admired Rashek, despite the amount of death he had caused. He didn't do that, he programmed Mists to start snapping people where the Well was close to being filled. This was happening automatically, without Preservation's conscious control (look at one of the WoB above). At that point in the story Preservation was as good as dead, HoA ch 56 epigraphs: Overall I think that's a fair criticism, you raised some good points, like about exploring different places in the empire, it would be nice to see how different they were from the Central Dominance, see Vershad when he was still a man, or get some more history of the Final Empire. After all, it lasted for 1000 years, and we barely know anything about what happened during that time.

In the same way Investiture is both invested art and static/kinetic/innate investiture, so is manifestations of investiture. But in the context of abilities, Invested arts are manifestations of investiture, and those terms are synonymous in that context. Rosharan would call it just Surgebinding, as the word Surge means powers of creation. Invested arts are physical manifestations of powers of creation, the ability to touch those powers. RoW Ars Arcanum: We have no example of Lightweaving being of Virtuosity - we know of 3 different Lightweaving magics - one is filtered through Honor and Cultivation (and Odium), another is of Devotion and Dominion, and the last one is Yolenish Lightweaving of unknown source (likely Adonalsium himself). There is no Lightweaving happening on Yumi's planet. Lightweaving is not of Virtuosity. It's a power of creation and different Shards can manifest it differently. And yes, it is independent of Shard's presence because that's a power of creation - it's everywhere. Depending on which Shard's intent you're following, you get different types of Lightweaving. And yes, Shard have an intuitive understanding of their invested arts - Ruin knew about Hemalurgy, just like Preservation knew about Allomancy. We saw this with Sazed, how he immediately understood Metallic Art after Ascension. Even Rashek immediately understood Allomancy and Feruchemy when he Ascended. Honor is the same - he knew Surgebinding and granted those powers to Heralds. Ruin knowing and telling people of Hemalurgy only proves that it is his invested art - Rashek was able to understand Hemalurgy only on a basic level, only because Ruin whispered to him how to use it he was able to create Hemalurgic Constructs. Doesn't he? Harmony basically stopped compounding in Hemalurgy, and put a limit on how many spikes can be accepted by a soul. That's the same thing that Honor did with Surgebinding - he limited the most destructive powers of it. The only difference is that Harmony did it subconsciously. But Harmony can't say "from this point on, silver will replace tin as base metallic metal, and tin will be useless, while silver will grant senses" - that's outside of his powers. Tin and silver have spiritual properties that Shard can't change, as they are results of laws of Cosmere. You have to follow Endowment's intent to Awaken. You have to follow Honor's and Cultivation's intent to Surgebind. You have to follow Ruin's intent to use Hemalurgy. Because those powers of creation you're accessing through their intent which result in this particular manifestation of investiture. That's what invested art is. "The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there." It does. Abilities granted by spikes are powered by Ruin. Having a spike makes you connected to Ruin. You're taking pieces of souls of other people, that's the investiture you're using and it is likely corrupted by Ruin's investiture in the process of spiking. Helpful for what? This is not related to the topic. Here is a list of known manifestations of investiture in Cosmere: Manifestations of Investiture Sand Mastery involves no investiture on the part of the user, it's using investiture that is in the White Sand. You gain that connection when you're spiking and when you have a spike in your body - that's why Ruin can talk to you. And where did you get that from? Investiture in Feruchemy comes from your own body - you transform attributes of your body into investiture, that is stored in metalminds. That's why it's end-neutral, because investiture doesn't come from an external source, nor is it lost. This is possible because in Cosmere matter=energy=investiture, one can be transformed into others just like in our world matter can be changed into energy or energy into matter. One Shard can be connected to many invested arts. Cultivation has an invested art on Ashyn, has Old Magic, is connected to Radiant Surgebinding and her own Lifebinding. Definition of "how many invested arts are there on a planet" is fluid, it depends on the person defining those words. Yup, it's pointless. It's clear that we both won't back down and we won't reach any satisfying conclusion. We're going in circles repeating the same things over and over again and it won't change. We should end this and agree to disagree. You yourself call it a "big jump", and that’s what it is, that’s why there is such an opposition from me, as I see it as baseless speculations contradicting known canon. Edit: I've been wondering how you could get other invested powers of the same Shard using Lerasium, because you have a point about Sand Mastery and Starmarks. How to get them using Lerasium and Bavadinium. And I think the answer is simple - you need to be connected to a particular Avatar of Autonomy, and to do that you need to be in the region influenced by that Avatar. Having Trellium spikes allows you to communicate with Trell on Scadrial, not Autonomy directly. Harmony confirmed Trellium is Bavadinium, this should work with other Avatars as well. This means that the presence of Avatar redirects connection to them from Autonomy. It is also very likely that Darkside of Taldain has an Avatar of Autonomy there - Skathan: Thus having Bavadinium spike on the Darkside would redirect you to Skathan. That's why I think burning Lerasium-Bavadiunium alloy on Darkside would somehow redirect the connection from Autonomy to Skathan, at least partially, and grant you Starmarks instead of Sand Mastery (which would be granted by connection to the Sand Lord, which influences the Dayside). Of course that's a stretch and bunch of speculations, but there might be something to it.

Good point and good WoB. Now I wonder if Shades from Threnody could be shaped so easily like Nightmares. They also lack oversight from a Shard, as Autonomy is Splintered. And we see magic getting dangerous and unrestricted after its Shard was Splintered - Surgebinding - the restrictions made by Honor are now gone. Bondsmiths are really dangerous now. However in that case Honor was actively preventing them from reaching that level of powers.

Khriss uses this term in Ars Arcanum... It's canon. I've literally quoted this to you. Khriss also uses the term Investiture to refer to abilities - invested arts - which is especially visible in her classification of end-positive/neutral/negative investiture. "On Scadrial, there are three prime manifestations of Investiture. Locally, these are spoken of as the “Metallic Arts.”" Again, WoB: This perfectly aligns with this WoB which I posted you in almost every post, and with what I've been saying to you all this time. That's what invested art is. Every invested art is explained like that and works like that. Plus Brandon listed Hemalurgy next to known invested arts - Lightweaving and Elsecalling - they are equal, manifestations of powers of creation filtered through Shardic intent. And this: All invested arts are just part of physics. Yes, because every invested art is independent from its Shard and can be replicated by different Shards and their invested arts. Bondsmithing is very similar - you can steal pieces of soul and even attributes from others - WoB. What this means you're tapping into this particular power of creation but through a different Shard - Honor. You're reaching into entropy (let's call it that for the sake of simplicity) through Honor, using Honor's invested art. Hemalurgy taps into entropy using Ruin's invested art, well Hemalurgy. The effect is still the same - you've stolen a connection, but using different invested arts. Just like you see Lightweaving and Elsecalling popping in different invested arts - those are reaching into the same powers of creation but through lenses of different Shards. They are still the same invested arts but based around different Shards. Aon Dor can recreate Allomancy or Feruchemy and they still are invested arts. Hemalurgy is the same - it exists universally, just like every invested art. Because every invested art is a manifestation of powers of creation filtered through Shardic intent. Invested art is the ability to reach powers of creation filtered through Shards. And that's what Hemalurgy is, just like Allomancy or Surgebinding or AonDor. There are 7 WoB where the term "invested art" appears, only in 2 Brandon himself said "invested art". 2 times (this and that). Not a lot. Because that's an in-world term. Brandon simply calls it magic (1403 WoBs). Why? I see no point in doing so.

I'm simply saying that as long as you have Breaths, you can Awaken anywhere. You can Awaken without Breaths, one of these methods is aligning investiture with Endowment, other is to use special Awakening to fuel itself with any kind of investiture (the Father Machine). No, spren are Splinters. Manifestation of investiture is a term synonymous with Invested Arts and also confusingly Investiture is another term for that (like F-nicrosil steals Investiture, but that means ability to use investiture, not static investiture). It’s a term that refers to magic systems like Allomancy or Surgebinding. It's the ability to use investiture. I don't feel bored and we know next to nothing about Dawnshards so it's hard to say anything. This whole thing is pointless because Hemalurgy is invested art, is called manifestation of investiture, and is Metallic Art. Hemalurgy is an invested art of Ruin. There is no argument you can make to disprove this, unless you have a clear WoB where Brandon straight up said that Hemalurgy isn't an invested art. This is not the case, we have multiple WoBs where Brandon is talking about Hemalurgy in the context of being Invested Art of Ruin. Khriss calls in in Ars Arcanum "Manifestation of Investiture" alongside Allomancy and Feruchemy. Also calls it end-negative art.

This is the Stormlight Archive only forum. Please edit your post and delete spoilers from other series or put them in a spoiler box with proper warning before. Also avoid double posting - you can report threads that were accidentally posted twice: Which main character died in WoK? I see it very likely that he will die - he's always one step away from death. Dalinar made himself a deal that forces him to fight in a duel - Taravangian spotted a loophole - it's very, very likely he will die. And Lopen, Rock, Sizgil, Gaz, Shallan's brothers, Oroden, Gavinor, Szeth, Lift, Jasnah etc. There are a lot of characters to pick from. Was Teft a main character in RoW? No. Was Elhokar a main character of OB? No. Was Eshonai the main character of WoR? She had a few pov chapters but she wasn't really a main character. Her importance to Dalinar is actually an argument for her death. How would his sacrifice restore Deadeye? Maya needs him and his bond to get restored. This is already happening, they are forming a bond and without that bond Maya would return to the state of total Deadeye. She needs him. In my opinion they are forming a reverse Nahel Bond, where Adolin's soul is filling cracks in Maya's soul, restoring her mind in process and linking her back to all three Realms. Adolin gave her his strength and breath during the trial, she is getting powers from Adolin, not the other way around. Without that bond Maya can't function. Adolin dying won't bring her back to life, it would reverse all of that they've achieved. I think that if somebody will die in KoWT, that death must be impactful, not just for readers, but to the world and characters. I believe Dalinar will die or become Odium's Fused, as that presents us with the most impactful death, changing the entire conflict and affecting everyone on Roshar and even beyond. Kaladin is also very likely to die - he became almost a deity, his struggle and presence affects everybody, and everybody knows him. He is always there to fix problems, his absence would change a lot. Szeth might die but for different reasons - as a compilation of his arc. I don't really see anything in Adolin that would make me believe that his death is coming. He just started his own arc, but he isn't that important to the greater story, his death would impact few characters, mainly main characters and that's it. It would be just death, just somebody had to die. I don't feel it - but that's my opinion. Of course, everything is possible.

Oh, not that much. We know that F-brass somehow protects you from effects of low or high heat, just like Feruchemy usually does - I wonder if that includes protecting water from evaporating. It should. But all water in your body, or like saliva doesn't count and would evaporate? You need to only make sure that your mouth and upper digestive tract is dry, which can be done without death. That means you need to dehydrate yourself. Thankfully with Feruchemy you might be able to achieve that without suffering, be able to ingest Harmonium, burn it and tap metalminds to provide water. Brassminds probably aren't a way to go, as the nature of Feruchemy would protect you from harm, but Bendalloyminds probably can allow you to burn Harmonium safely. Just having Harmonium in your mouth allows you to burn it, you don't even need to swallow it. In that case you need to make sure that your mouth is dry, and the air around you is dry as well.

No, wrong again. Awakening works everywhere, without any connection needed. As long as you have Breaths you can Awaken. You can Awaken without Breaths, that's how the Father Machine from Yumi was made. You can use Awakening everywhere as long as you know how to. Breaths are keyed to your identity, that's why you can Awaken without any Connection to Endowment. More recent WoBs: Yes, it also directly contradicts your theory, proving that Hemalurgy is invested art: "Khriss has referred to manifestations of Investiture (in the context of the Metallic Arts)" That's very open to interpretation. It isn't set in stone. Not every connection invokes Honor, not every bond is of Honor. Honor isn't defined by such narrow terms. Connection, like Fortune or Identity, doesn't belong to one Shard - it's an attribute of Cosmere, it permeates everything and everyone. It's a Spiritual property of Cosmere that everyone can use and it doesn't belong to Honor. Feruchemist manipulating Connection doesn't invoke Honor. Those things don't belong to any Shard. It's like saying that a proton belongs to the Strong Force and only it. Those are separate phenomena. Hemalurgy is an invested art, is called invested art and is canonized as invested art. It's manifestation of Ruin's investiture, leakage of Shardic nature into Physical Realm.

Huh, that's interesting. That seems quite simple. You need to get inert, acid resistant metal and that's it. But you better find something that isn’t poisonous, otherwise you might kill yourself (that would still need health). On a different note, do you think tapping heat from Brassmind makes your body dry? Would storing water in a Bendalloy mind make your body dry? If yes you can use those methods to safely swallow Harmonium, as your stomach is filled with acid which will isolate Harmonium from water (mostly).

Wrong, you need no connection to Endowment to hold Breaths. You have Breaths, you can Awaken. Hemalurgy and Awakening are in many ways similar - everyone can do it everywhere, as long as they have Breaths (or other investiture per Yumi + WoBs) and intent - for Hemalurgy you need souls (which is the investiture you're using) and intent. This is pointless. You are simply wrong here - books and WoBs prove this. Hemalurgy is Metallic Art. Metallic Arts are manifestations of investiture on Scadrial, and these are invested arts. They are powers of creation. These terms are synonymous. Hemalurgy is simply unique, because everyone, everywhere, with proper knowledge can use it. This is because Ruin represents the force of universal entropy, he doesn't care who uses his art or where, as long as it increases entropy. Hemalurgy is the natural manifestation of Ruin - in the same way Allomancy is the natural manifestation of Preservation or Awakening is the natural manifestation of Endowment. Invested arts are mortal manifestations of the powers of creation - Shards. Hemalurgy is just that. Invested arts are just the essense of Shards leaking into the physical world, physical representations of Shardic nature. One important aspect of invested arts is that any Shard can fuel any invested art, any investiture can be used to fuel any invested art if done correctly. Allomancy still is of Preservation even if pure Dor is fueling it. Hemalurgy just uses this as its core principle - it uses investiture of others, their spirit webs, to fuel the art. Hemalurgy is the invested art of stealing, just like Awakening is the art of giving - and Awakening can be used without Breaths (the Father Machine + some WoBs), and still be of Endowment. Shards represent the powers of creation, powers of nature itself - invested arts are just manifestations of those powers. Ruin is the power of entropy, and Hemalurgy is the representation of that power, in the same way Honor is the power of bonds and Radiant Surgebinding is the partial representation of that power. Shards are omnipresent, Ruin is everywhere, and in its nature entropy is not limited - that's why everyone can use Hemalurgy, as long as they want to increase entropy. Your comparison to Honor and bonds is wrong - compare decay that's happening everywhere in Cosmere to bonds - that's the right comparison. Not every decay is caused by Hemalurgy, not every bond is made by Surgebinding (or whatever Honor's pure invested art is, because such clear distinction doesn't exist on Roshar).

So no, she did not know that plate creates anti-Tone on its own. I said she knew there is a possibility for plates working with everybody. She wasn't surprised, she knew there were two outcomes and wondered which one was correct. She knew Raboniel might be able to play and get anti-tone. And there is a huge argument for that as plates were mathematically opposite to Odium tone, they weren’t the same. Merging lights is made by humming proper tones and slowly aligning and changing them until reaching harmony. Without proper tones, you can't merge lights. Even Honor and Odium plates Raboniel gave Navani weren't pure tones of them, but slightly changed to fit this harmony better. She knew anti-tone is the key. She had very strong reasons to believe that anti-tone is that important and without it she wouldn't be able to create anit-light. No because that's my whole point.... No Raboniel would be looking at Navani's equipment and experiments looking for more clues. Which I've explained later - conceal the knowledge before Raboniel came. Burn notes, change the plate, predent no anti-tone was made - Raboniel wouldn't know Navani made a breakthrough, she would only know she was playing with plates and lights making false notes but nothing more. So simple. And I've only pointed out that this other research was her testing how to change the tone of lights. It was tied. No, nothing was compensated. She allowed Fused to gain access to this vital secret, and they lost a huge advantage in war. By burning notes and cutting the plate!!!! She was preparing for Raboniel to come, trying to find excuses for her work, and like you said, hiding her work, knowing that Raboniel might discover what she was really doing. She knew how smart Raboniel was and she already failed to deceive Raboniel several times. Trying to do it again, after so many failed attempts, was just wrong. She should assume she was unable to hide the truth and destroy all evidence of her work. Raboniel knew there was a weird sound coming from the room and nothing more - this could be easily explained by Navani trying to find other ways to merge lights by playing on plates and making new plates. Even Navani admitted that this was a mistake. That she should have known better. Yes, before you say that again, Navani needed to write things down - burn them after discovering anti-tones. She knew how important this discovery was because she tried to hide it from Raboniel. She knew Fused shouldn't get that, and yet she didn't do the most obvious things - destroy all evidence. She didn't do that because she wanted to continue her research, while she was fully aware that she couldn't hide it from Raboniel. She was proven this before. I'm not criticizing her for the loss of the second node. I was, and still am, criticizing her for not thinking about consequences of her discovery and hidden motives of Raboniel to pursue that discovery. Earlier I was disappointed that she didn't make that connection because if she thought about it, it would be obvious. But I could excuse this with Raboniel's manipulations. But now that excuse is gone - she was fully aware that what she was trying to discover is a weapon Raboniel wanted and will be used against them and still jumped madly into it. She didn't make the most obvious things that would assure Fused wouldn't get the knowledge of anti-tones. She didn't even think about how Raboniel might use anti-light, which is the very first thing Navani should have done after this realization. She failed here massively, and now I can't excuse Navani not thinking about reasons why Raboniel wants anti-light, when she knew it wasn't for Shards.

Kandra experience almost no physical change from spikes, but the change is fully cognitive, HoA ch 41 Epigraphs: Also it's likely that Kandra Blessings somehow have the effect of Allomancy in them, or something like that - that's how Sazed talks about them in HoA ch 38 Epigraphs: But yeah, I agree with you, you're changing the spiritual ideal of your physical body when inserting attributes with spikes, and the body changes trying to look like its spirit tells how it should look. Deformations are inevitable. You might be able to minimize this effect with proper intent and command, but as long as you want to spike physical attributes into yourself, deformations will follow. Mental attributes might likely result in cognitive deformations - madness for example. What you are stealing isn't magical enhancement, like the effect of F-pewter, but physical stuff - strength of muscles, which comes from muscles' size and structure. Attributes are non-magical, they are the effect of your body.

What? She knew the plate creates anti-Tone, she knew there is a possibility that everyone can play it and she tested the plate herself several times already. She knew it works. Most importantly, because of her experiments with Warlight, she knew anti-Tone is the most important step in discovery of anti-light, and thus it should be prevented from falling into Fused hands by all means. RoW ch 97: They weren't hidden when she handed them over to Raboniel... You argued that Navani wanted to delay the unmaking of the Tower. Leaving notes hidden would be perfect for that, as it would take hours to find them and even more to actually create anti-Voidlight, giving the Sibling much more time. Navani knew how fixated Raboniel was on combining Voidlight with the opposite, and this would still happen - Navani would still have her assassination attempt. But even better - don't give them that knowledge at all. She would still have the knowledge to save the Sibling, while Fused would be left with nothing. She was both trying to find a way to overwrite the tone but had an plausible explanation ready for Raboniel. That wasn't a random experiment. Yes, that's the problem. If she sucessfully conseal the knowledge of anit-Tone she would still be able to push Voidlight from the Tower and stop Moash, as that was done by humming anti-Odium tone, not by anti-Voidlight. No, she was outmatched and was the reason for the second node to get destroyed. That's not perfect. Another point is that Navani actually figured out that Raboniel lied to her about wanting to kill Odium but still pursued to discover anti-light without thinking of what was the real reason Raboniel wanted to create anti-light. That's a huge red flag as now Navani knew Raboniel wanted anti-light for malicious intent but didn't think about consequences at all. Navani can't be excused by "being manipulated by Raboniel" as she knew it and did nothing. RoW ch 89:

Brandon calls it magic. It requires investiture - souls. Without souls there is no Hemalurgy. Souls are investiture. With Hemalurgy you're literally cutting off part of somebody's investiture and placing it in your soul, connecting yourself to Ruin. Allomantic tables are human constructs, not Shardic. Preservation didn't move metals around, Atium Mistings were Electrum Mistings. SA spoilers:

No, we don't know if it's purely from Odium. Yes, corrupted is the key word here. Hemalurgy literally is invested art. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And we have mountains of evidence proving that Hemalurgy is an invested art, called manifestation of investiture, or end-negative investiture. I don't really understand how you can call Hemalurgy as not an invested art. Invested art is an in-universe phrase for magic. Hemalurgy is magic, it is invested art. Feruchemy isn't of Ruin. It's the combination of Ruin and Preservation, literally said in dozens of WoBs. They do. Read them again. It isn't Ruin's invested art. You're simply wrong here. Yeah. Allomancy is purely of Preservation, Hemalurgy is of Ruin and Feruchemy is a mix of them both. We see this. Just because Honor can twist something in Surgebinding doesn't mean that Cultivation cannot do that as well. They have equal power over their combined magic system, but that doesn't mean both of them have to change it. We simply haven't seen Cultivation trying to change anything in Surgebinding. That is a misconception. It doesn't have to be any connection between the effects of invested arts and the Shard. That's not why invested art is connected to that Shard. The connection comes from how the power is obtained. Just like Surgebinding comes from oaths and growth, Allomancy comes from self-preservation, and Breaths comes form gift. WoB explains this. That's what an invested art is. Every invested art is a manifestation of a Shard and its nature. It's a representation of Shardic nature. Hemalurgy requires investiture - without souls to steal from, Hemalurgy would be useless, souls are investiture. It can be used without Connection to Ruin because Ruin is universal, and the act of spiking is making this connection to Ruin. Retcon changed this. Preservation didn't rewrite Allomancy at all. Misting can burn his metal and god metals alloyed with it - Atium Mistings were electrum Mistings, Preservation changed nothing here. Preservation only made a way for people to access power - Mist snapping, later altered by Harmony. Those are minor changes. Oaths were added by Ishar, Radiants are Ishar's invention. Honor bounded Surges to limit their destructive potential and those limitations are now gone. The examples of changes Shards can impose on their invested arts are nothing in comparison to what you are proposing. Shards can't switch magics, because those magics are created from the very nature of those Shards. They are tied to them, they are forces of creation derived from those Shards. Shards can't abandon them and choose another because Shards are forces of nature, and invested arts are manifestations of those forces filtered by those Shards. Doing something like that would be breaking the laws of nature. This idea is simply wrong.

It is. Metallic Arts are 3 invested arts, which are also called manifestations of Investiture, from Scadrial. They have limited control. Manifestations of investiture are like forces of nature - you can't control them, you can only influence them. That's what Shards are doing.

Wrong, the plate was mathematically anti-Odium tone, no intent is required to use it. RoW ch 97: I don't understand how you can't comprehend the simple fact that when Raboniel requested notes, Navani gave them to her. That's my whole point of this "hidden notes" part, which I keep repeating. If she declined then you have a point. That research was linked to her efforts of creating anti-light. She tried to find a way to dampen the tone of light to rewrite it, RoW ch 97: That's my point. This is the part where I'm making excuses for Navani explaining why she acted like she did. Some of those factors are external. I understand why she failed, but this still irritates me. I've expected better from her. I'm not answering again to your other points. This was my way of ending this discussion. There is no point of repeating the same thing over and over again, when emotions are involved. It still was fun, as always, talking with you.

The WoB is from 2020, we knew Harmonium for years back then. Brandon saying "god metals" could include Harmonium. But I do agree that Lerasium alloyed with Atium is likely a way, or part of it, to get Feruchemy. Hemalurgy is an invested art of Ruin, confirmed by many WoBs and books. Feruchemy is a balance system derived from interactions of pollary opposed Shards. What control? Little to no? Shards don't control their invested arts that much, invested arts naturally leak into Physical Realm and Shards have no control over that. Invested arts appear because of interaction between Shards and planets they inhabit.

Lerasium burnt by a non-Allomancer gives you a connection to Preservation. Lerasium forges a connection to Shard. This connection gives you powers of Allomancy. Lerasium alloyed with another god metal forges a connection to that Shard, giving you the power of their invested art. It's like in compounding, where an attribute inside the metalmind, overwrites the charge of metal when being burnt, giving you that attribute fueled by Allomancy. Alloying Lerasium with another god metal overwrites the connection to Preservation with that Shard's connection. Well, unknown? Not every Shard is based around the number of 16. Honor is based around 10, Odium around 9, Endowment around 5 and Autonomy around 7 (most likely). Most invested arts aren't connected to base metals or Metallic Arts at all - the metals themself have some universal properties, but it's because of Metallic Arts that Lerasium alloyed with base metals gives you the power of Misting. You don't get the same thing with other invested arts as base metals aren't in use there. Most invested arts aren't connected with base 16 metals. That's not likely. A magic system spawns because of interactions between Shards inhabiting the planetary system and that planet. On Scadrial Ruin and Preservation caused Metallic Arts to spawn (not directly, it just happened and they didn't create those arts). Allomancy is just one system coming from Preservation and number 16 is unique to that Shard. Is Voidbinding purely from Odium or it's a combination of all 3 Shards? After all it takes a corrupt True Spren to access Voidbining. There are also 9 Unmades, it doesn't add up to 16. You post yourself A WoB which said what an alloy of Lerasium and Trellium (which is Bavadinium, confirmed in TLM) do. It makes you into a Sand Master. This is contradicted by dozens of WoBs. As mentioned previously, invested arts manifest because of interactions between Shards and a planet. Feruchemy is a result of Ruin and Preservation's interactions with Scadrial, it's a merge of those two Shards. We don't know. We have no idea what Atium-Lerasium alloy does. We know only that it's possible to use Scadrian god metals to become Feruchemist, but Harmonium is counted in that That's not why those metallic arts are of those Shards. Allomancy is of Preservation because it's a gift which preserves your soul, it forges the connection to Preservation that makes you stronger, and you draw the power from Preservation. Hemalurgy is of Ruin because it always ruins, you steal powers from others. Feruchemy is a mix because you get the power from your own body, from yourself. That can't be the case. The magic spawns naturally, they don't have such influence over it to swap it like that. Overall this was an interesting read.

Dalinar has a strong connection to Odium, because Odium considered him to be his Champion and prepared him for this role over years. But this later changed as now Dalinar is the Champion of Honor who will fight against Odium - there is still a very strong connection between them because of that, and that's what Odium uses to create visions with Dalinar. RoW ch 111: RoW I-4: