Spoolofwhool

Because they're freezing now, due to the planet being further away from the sun. They spent a thousand years adapting to the heat but now they're not in their warm climate. The coppermind that Wax got from Hoid even showed it, the southern scadrians huddling in the cold, having burnt their masks for warmth.

I'm going to assume they aren't since you wouldn't be able to invest the aluminum to make it otherwise impervious to shardblades. There are also three RAFOs in regards to the direct question of whether the covers are made from aluminum. He did say that we [17thShard] was thinking along the right lines though.

Yes, that was what I was trying to point out earlier. The idea that it has to be connected to a physical location doesn't make much sense.

Isn't it just in the spiritual realm, waiting to be used?

True. Good point. However, I don't think the Basin is in danger from resource depletion, since we know that Harmony provided an ample amount.

This is an interesting thought. We don't know whether allowed the Southern Scadrians to have the technologies of the time when he moved them, but he definitely couldn't have limited them during TFE, so they would've advanced during those thousand years, using the knowledge they brought and the technology. One thing though, I'm not sure the Southern Scadrians are quite that advanced. They don't seem to have electricity for example, at least there was none on their airships. It is possible that they could have but it isn't mobile, but then they definitely wouldn't be anywhere near Earth 22nd Century tech. It seems to me that they are still fairly unadvanced, relying strongly on magic to survive. While their hardships have motivated to advance their technology, their tech relies more on magic versus the Basin, which has tech not reliant on magic, which could be in fact considered more advanced. The Southern Scadrians are reliant on metalborns to keep their technology. If for some reason they lose their metalborns, then they'd be essentially screwed.

As far as I'm aware, Adonalsium's investiture is either kind of everywhere, at basic levels forming physical, cognitive and spiritual entities while at advanced levels forming ambient magic phenomenon's such as aviar, shades, stormlight and Listener transformation. Otherwise, the investiture is under the domain of the different shards, either as a collected mass or splintered. What I don't understand is why you're hung on the idea that the investiture would've had to have been left in specific places, and why it has to be the same on all worlds. Based on what Brandon has said, it seems to me that Adonalsium's investiture is just spread over the Cosmere, at possible random. Also, Khriss didn't say that Shardworld Investiture only comes from shards, she said the Dor came from Dominion and Devotion. There can be other investiture on a major shardworld from Adonalsium, such as Roshar, as you pointed out.

Mistborn SH things

This is an interesting thought. I wonder how weird it would be as well, if a worldhopper is wandering through Shadesmar when they suddenly come upon a Nightmaw which had stumbled into Patji's Eye and someone accessed its power as a perpendicularity and moved to Shadesmar. Makes me wonder how long they wander there until they eventually come across another perpendicularity and manage to access it in order to get out, how often that happens, and how many are simply killed by the dangers of Shadesmar.

Yet identity is stolen in some part through hemalurgy, indicating that it has ties to innate investiture. Also, I would argue that connection is part of the innate investiture. After all, if it weren't, then you wouldn't actually be able to steal allomantic powers, since what allomancy is is an increased connection to Preservation. Also, consider the fact that shardblades can be stolen using hemalurgy. That is likely a direct transfer of connection to the blade. Therefore, it would appear by all accounts that connection is part of the innate investiture. AU spoiler Possibly. It definitely derives the investiture from innate investiture, but that doesn't mean it remains that way while it is transient in the spike. As I said earlier, this wouldn't make any sense. What you're describing is basically "any hemalurgic attribute is a storable attribute for nicrosil". Considering hemalurgy is already a wildcard magic, to create another magic in close proximity which could easily become just as wildcard as a result of the hemalurgy would make for both lazy and dull writing, not to mention reduce the impact of hemalurgy. Yes, I'm arguing from a writing point, not just a mechanics point, but I think it is valid. We know that Brandon has a plan for hemalurgy to spread throughout the Cosmere and have vast impacts. Overall, I think you're wrong about part of the spiritual not being investiture. It seems to me that the spiritual realm is just investiture, with its different connections to the physical and cognitive realm of different entities and powers. Therefore, the spiritual aspect and spiritweb is investiture with the varying connections to form identity and the other spiritual attributes, along with the spiritual connections to other entities such as shards. The reason I think this is because, in effect, everything is made out of investiture, but in different forms. In the physical realm, investiture takes on physical characteristics of solids, gases and liquids, coming together to form objects and physical entities, with a specific case being the world Scadrial, but with everything originating due to some force or another. In the same vein, the cognitive aspect of everything is more investiture, caught in a more mutable shape than the physical, but less mutable and more localized form than the spiritual. This can explain how Nightblood works, returning the physically and cognitive bound investiture to the spiritual realm and undoing all connections of the spiritual aspect, thereby annihilating the entity, with the side effect of preventing the investiture from forming other connections. This creates the phenomenon of "corrupted investiture", which by current WoB, is fairly unusable. PS: This went on a bit longer than expected, and is very off-the-cuff. I may come back in the near future to fix some details or add some more when I actually have time to think about it.

Possibly. I'm not very good at coming up with theories however, just discussing them.

I meant youth, yes. I forgot the actual term they used for atium feruchemy.

That makes sense to some degree. When you say "naturally part of a person", you are referring to original template of humans from Yolen? Not natural-born, like natural-born allomancers or feruchemists, because then they couldn't store their powers in nicrosil. The question then is whether you could store a tapped attribute from another metalmind into nicrosil. That extra amount of attribute gained wouldn't be "natural" anymore than gaining extra attribute from hemalurgy. You could say that the tapped attribute having the same identity could keep it natural, but what if you're tapping a charge keyed to someone else's identity? Could you then store that attribute in nicrosil while tapping it since it wouldn't be natural to the person? I agree that this is a pretty solid theory, but I still disagree with it. It makes nicrosil feruchemy too open-ended. As far as I can tell, feruchemy and allomancy are designed to fit within structure rules governing their use, with hemalurgy being the wildcard which messes with everything. From a standpoint of what we know from the story, it fits, from a standpoint of what we know of how Brandon has designed the other parts of feruchemy and how he designs magical systems, as well as his goals for Cosmere it doesn't make sense. Using hemalurgy as a method to make any attribute storable for nicrosil feruchemy is odd. I don't think I'm going to say anything in this thread unless someone else weighs in.

That's a fair interpretation. I had a thought though. If having breath just suspends your aging, then once you drop below the threshold for the required heightening, wouldn't your age catch up to you and you would immediately die if you're too old?

I think you mixed up topics where we're discussing. This is the one we we're talking about innate investiture, not nicrosil feruchemy.

Okay. I did misunderstand you. However, that still doesn't counter my argument that it doesn't explain how being removed from shards are sapient with innate investiture. Even if you expanded it to "containing Adonalsium's investiture", that still wouldn't work since everything is basically Adonalsium's investiture. Therefore, your definition of it doesn't work.

The problem with that is that if nicrosil can store any part of the spiritweb, then it is probably encompassing aluminium feruchemy as well, since identity is likely part of a spiritweb investiture due to be stealable by hemalurgy, along with connection. Since it doesn't make sense for nicrosil infringe on other feruchemical domains, since no other does, that over-generalization strikes me as extremely false. That's why I'm saying it can only store spiritweb components related to using a manifestation of investiture. Therefore, since becoming a koloss isn't related to using a manifestation of investiture, it doesn't make sense for you to be able to somehow store that into nicrosil. Also, since physical strength is stealable through hemalurgy, and is therefore a part of the spiritweb, it would seem to be that all feruchemical enacts changes by changing the spiritweb, therefore, by your description of it, making nicrosil feruchemy able to store any attribute another metal could store. That's unlikely considering how well Sanderson plans and defines the limits of magical systems.

He's basing it off of the character viewpoint structure of the book which Brandon provided. In it, tertiary characters, which Adolin is, have limited sectioning. Also, yes, you're right that Adolin will appear in other people's PoV. However, he's arguing that it won't be the same, and there won't be the same development, if it's not from his PoV, which is a valid concern, though I think oversold.

I'm not saying that the hemalurgically granted power is kinetic. I'm saying that the hemalurgic charge, the piece of investiture contained within the metal, is kinetic investiture. Once the spike is embedded in someone, that charge causes the change in their innate investiture, leading to the addition of attributes, such as allomancy or physical strength. I see what you're saying there, but what's changing them into a koloss isn't the capacity to use a power. As far as I'm aware, what is changing them into Koloss is the excess physical strength causing instabilities in their spiritual aspect. Hemalurgy isn't directly causing the change, it's allowing the changes in innate investiture to happen, which cause that. If you could gain those same changes in innate investiture some other way, then I think someone would effectively be a koloss as well. For instance, using lerasium in the correct manner could cause that. It seems to me that you're misinterpreting how hemalugy works. It doesn't cause changes in people past removing and adding pieces of their spiritweb. Whatever changes as a result of those changes are realmatics. Therefore, what you're describing, the "force" that is driving them to become a koloss, is the laws of realmatics, not a manifestation of investiture. Note: Yes, I am aware that there is a flaw in my point of hemalurgy only about grafting investiture when we know it does provoke physical changes, such in the case of inquisitors and Zane. I think it can cause changes, but only enough changes to keep the spiked person alive. Stuff past that like chimeras and koloss aren't due to hemalurgy.

I think you're misinterpreting this. I think what he is meaning is that "any power that Adonalsium left behind appears as ambient magic on shardworlds". After all, I don't think Mistborn Era 1 things

I'm assuming this WoB, in which case it seems to be fairly clearly referring to him being alive in the period after the Catacendre.

The second part is not true for certain since the power of allomancy originates from a shard and is kinetic investiture. Also, that would then put into question how beings predated the Splintering if they couldn't have innate investiture then. The first part I'll admit is a gray area, but it comes down to how you define "part of someone". If you can give it away, is it part of you? If you can internalize it, is it part of you? If you're born with it, is it part of you? The way I see it, innate investiture is what makes up your spiritweb, your spiritual aspect. All things are created or born with a certain amount, but that amount can change.

Right, and I'm saying that you cannot store physical strength in a nicrosilmind at all, since that isn't what you store in nicrosil. I don't think you understood what I'm saying. I'm well aware that hemalurgy changes the innate investiture of the spiked person. What I was saying about kinetic investiture was that the hemalurgic charge stored in the metal is kinetic investiture. In any case, you haven't actually responded to my reasoning as to why hemalurgically-gained attributes can't be stored any more than regular ones, for attributes which are not related to the ability to use a manifestation of investiture.

Yes, but as I have been saying, I don't think nicrosil stores any type of innate investiture, just that related to using a manifestation of investiture. Good WoBs. I'll think on my response. My only comment is I would suggest discounting the "drabs have no innate investiture" in that, since it is extremely suspect and flies in the face of how we understand realmatics. Innate investiture is what gives the identity, connection, sapience, etc of entities. Since drabs are clearly sapient, and possibly have identity and connection, they have innate investiture.

Probably. Age is a feruchemical attribute, which indicates it is a part of the spiritweb which can be accessed. As such, I wouldn't be surprised if it can be stolen with hemalurgy, with atium at least, and probably at least another metal. I wonder whether it would somehow add life to yours, or maybe overwrites what the spiritual thinks your age is. Both would require continuously gathering age to keep going, but the latter would probably be easier since you wouldn't need to keep spiking yourself, you would just need to empty the charge of a spike and swap your current one. Personally, I think the latter is more likely too.