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Everything posted by kais
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Like someone took a draft, shredded it, then pasted it back together with Elmer's glue while drunk I don't! I'm a pantser. I just write and see where the characters go, then cut out the pointless parts after. Ends with overwriting but it's worked for me thus far.
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11,9,2020 - Snakenaps - Name of the King - D3 Chapter 24 (3953 words)
kais replied to Snakenaps's topic in Reading Excuses
100% would read this book -
11,9,2020 - Snakenaps - Name of the King - D3 Chapter 24 (3953 words)
kais replied to Snakenaps's topic in Reading Excuses
Overall A stronger chapter than most, for sure! I think it still lacks an arc. What is I's purpose in this chapter? How does this chapter move the story forward? I feel like if the bones were pulled from this it would be the front half of a chapter, the second half then containing the plot movement we need to keep going. Same. Right now I'm rooting for TBK. He's probably the strongest character in this next to I, and he has a lot more agency than she does. When he is in a chapter, the plot moves. Thirded here. I like this too, but I think we'd need more TBK POV chapters for it. As I go - I'd cut the first sentence and lead with the second. It's stronger by far - pg 3: I was fine until we got here: “See, he had already been plotting <-- when things became an infodump - pg 6: the wandering and seeing the city lacks real punch because it doesn't drive the story forward. Suggest having I see the city as she rushes to her home. Cut it down into maybe three powerful sentences, max, to keep the narrative flowing (especially after the good, but still very sedentary, first part) - pg 7: the home interlude also lacks any strong emotional punch. A few people are missing but....it's just another stop over. I feel like we are being dragged from scene to scene to get to a plot line I can't see yet, and it frustrates me. This should be a tense chapter, with I seeing all the carnage, but the emotional punch keeps getting delayed as we go to places that should resonate and then BOOM, I bounds off again to find....I don't know what. What is her goal in this chapter? - pg 12: the bribery section is good! - final scene seems superfluous -
Overall Hmm. Well I think the prologue can easily go. Chapter one is both better, and too cut down. We need the significance of the sword to give us buy in to the character as he gets set up on his hero's journey. And I think we need....just more grounding in the world. What sets this world, and this hero, apart from all the others? What is unique about this story? Why should we care about this hero? As I go - pg 1: They have destroyed themselves <-- this whole paragraph is deeply melodramatic and makes it hard for me to take this seriously. - pg 2: a Hero of the Stars <-- still melodramatic, but with a Chosen One trope added on - Prologue overview: I don't think this is necessary. It's so tropishly over the top that it almost lends itself to comedy. Nothing stands out as necessary--no characters really attach themselves to me. Aside from pointing out that the book will follow a Chosen One trope, I'm not sure what it gives the story Chapter 1 - pg 2: the opening this time is too quick, I think. Let us get a bit of the inciting incident (the sword arriving), so we have the significance of the event, before people move on - the scene with the father and the woman is better now, much quicker and to the point. I think it would work well if the first section had a bit more meat to it
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11.2.20-Sarah B-PlagueShip-(2,300 words) Chapter 2 (L)
kais replied to Sarah B's topic in Reading Excuses
Little late, sorry about that. Overall I'd say this chapter can likely be cut. It seems to be primarily backstory/exposition/info dump, and does not appear to have an arc or to progress the narrative. It's a good writing exercise for sure, as it helps you get a feel for the world, but it isn't engaging to read because there's nothing and no one to connect with. It may help to outline each chapter (either before or after writing) so you can see if your chapter has an arc to it (fitting the events to a beginning, middle, end arc). If you can't do it, or there isn't actual plot movement in a chapter, it's either not a complete chapter, or it just needs to be cut. Same As I go - pg 1: scientists is not a proper noun - pg 1 is all info dump and not a strong way to start a chapter. I'd suggest cutting and trying to find a way to work that information in organically - pg 4: four pages in and there have been a handful of dialogue lines at best. The rest is just info dumps and narration. The arc of the chapter is not clear. What is it's purpose? How is it moving the story forward? It's really hard to stay engaged because I keep being given backstory and not the actual story. I can't care about the backstory until I know what the stakes are and am invested in the characters - pg 7: even the dialogue through here is just backstory. Nothing is moving the plot forward -
It's up to you, really. Full on swears need a warning, I'd say made ups don't, neither does anything you'd hear in a grad school playground (like dang, suck, etc.).
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Overall The last section was good! I liked the section with BK too. The first section just...seemed all over the place emotionally and I think it could use trimming and streamlining. I think there are too many POVs for one chapter, all trying to tell the same story. It'd be stronger with one, maybe two, not rehashing events but propelling the arc forward. It's a good installment, and I'm glad to see plot movement and get some tension. I think there is a bit more fat to trim, however, before the chapter really sparkles. As I go - pg 2: okay, there is action happening but I feel like I missed something. I think that first page should set the stage for the action in page 2. So maybe something like, They hunkered wherever, counting pamphlets, counting fingers, counting the minutes left of their lives should they be discovered. As it is the first page is very hum-drum and then WHAM we get smacked with what is supposed to be tension, but without the setup I just feel confused and a bit cheated. Set the stage. Make me want it. - pg 4: some redundancy on this page, especially with the word 'attack' - pg 4: blocking has me very confused. Where are they? What was their goal? They wanted to distribute the pamphlets but there were guards waiting for them and they got scattered....where? Docks somewhere? And now...they are trying to rescue some who were captured? - pg 5: wait, so they aren't going after the captured people? I feel like there's an emotional vacuum here now. They got found out and people were taken but the ending is...very casual. I think the emotional beats in this section are all over the place. I need some consistency - pg 7: War's entire POV appears to be an info dump. - pg 8: three POVs in one chapter is too much for me. Is War's necessary? What is the purpose? What is the arc? - pg 10: yup, definitely think War's POV doesn't need to be there - pg 13: So wait, is there a time jump when we get to Su's POV? I'm lost again - pg 13: better emotion through here. More consistent - pg 14: strong ending, though I wonder why they are coming to this conclusion so late? This seems like a plot arc that should have come around chapter three or so.
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Overall I liked the poem a lot! I think there are some extra words to be cut, and some rearrangement of some of the stanzas, but it has some powerful imagery. The prologue is...very prologue. It doesn't appear to have an arc or to contribute to a greater story. I think the meat of it could be boiled down to maybe four sentences as an epigraph to chapter one and convey all the same information--but with much more power. As it stands it's the kind of prologue editors just cut--it appears to be more of a writing exercise (which it was, so excellent!) than relevant to the narrative. As I go starting with Seashell Creatures - depending on how you hold it. <-- suggest removing 'on' as it throws off the rhythm - for the next stanza I suggest instead: My grandmother became a shell When I was very young She'd always seemed a strange creation Lying around As shells so often do - the next stanza I think should be cut as it takes us in a very different direction and confuses the poem - For this stanza, suggest instead: I wasn’t there as she withered in her shell, becoming an eho board with ricocheting memories. - I think the ending lacks a certain punch. In many of these stanzas I like the information and tone but there are too many words for the rhythm, and it seems like the subject and object are often inverted Blue and Orange - In that first sentence I don't think we need the words after the comma. It's more powerful without them - the first paragraph is too wordy. The sentences need to be trimmed down, and there's already a tendency to show then tell. If you just stick with showing, you can cut the telling and it'll be much tighter writing. For instance: It howled and groaned and shrieked, and currents blew this way and that, trying to knock her off course and render her giant wings ineffective. At any moment, she could be sent spiraling to the ground. Nature did not want her to reach the peak of the mountain, but she would You've already shown us that nature is against her. Both shown us and told us. So we don't need to be told again with the nature did not want her to... - noting that, I think you'd have a stronger opening if the first paragraph got boiled into just one sentence: The wind groaned and batted at Z, rendering her giant wings ineffective. - same with the second paragraph. I think it could be condensed into one pretty powerful sentence - the ending is confusing.
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10.26.20 ginger_reckoning - ch. 4, ch.5 (5300) (v, L)
kais replied to ginger_reckoning's topic in Reading Excuses
Sorry about being late on this. Overall Chapter 4 had some good emotion, but no real plot arc. Chapter 5 didn't seem to have any purpose and definitely did not have an arc. Chapter five could probably be cut, a bit of plot added to chapter 4 to really meat it up. The writing is just fine! I think just some greater narrative plotting is required. As I go - reasonably strong start to the chapter. I'm engaged - pg 5: I like slice of life, but I'm getting antsy. I'm not sure what the purpose of this chapter is, or what the arc is - chapter 4 - I think this could have been a lot shorter so there was the same emotional punch but with fewer words. There are good emotional beats but I don't really see an arc or how this contributes to the greater story arc. I'd like more plot movement within this family time Moving to chapter 5 - pg 1: pouting isn't the best way to start a chapter - pg 2: I'm not engaged with this chapter. It seems like a reflection/info dump which, after a slice of life chapter, really drags the narrative pacing - chapter 5 - this chapter has less of an arc than the previous one. I think it could be cut entirely without hurting the narrative, especially if you put more plot in chapter 4 -
10/12/2020- SarahB-PlagueShip-chapter1-(v)(g)(medical)-3,300
kais replied to Sarah B's topic in Reading Excuses
I think ethically is a great switch! -
10.19.20- SarahB-PlagueShip-2,000words-Chapter1again
kais replied to Sarah B's topic in Reading Excuses
Overall Better! But it's still very light on description and blocking, and the through line/plot is not established. What is our MC's goal? How will he achieve it? What is the arc of this chapter, and how does it advance the book narrative? First chapters really need to grab us and invest us in the world/characters, and give us a solid idea where both are going. That's the part that's still really missing, I'd say. A clear through line. As I go - oh much better opening paragraph. I have some stakes! - also really like the instant alien description - pg 2: How do ships fly <-- this exposition seems unnecessary and just slows the narrative - pg 3: I wanted to call these marvels of engineering <-- what thing is he talking about? Description please, and blocking. I don't know what our MC is looking at - pg 3: I'm bouncing off the main character because they seem really harsh for the circumstances. It isn't a character that makes me want to keep reading. Something to consider when editing. Also the attitude makes me feel like there isn't, in fact, and real danger, which means there is no tension, which means I don't care about the characters or setting yet, either - pg 4: more blocking on the guard and getting more emotions there would help a lot too - pg 5: like figuring out who tried to break the containment wall <--okay here is our plot, but pg 5 is too late to get it. I'd rather our MC be thinking/talking about this from the start. Irritation over that wouldn't be so alienating and would add to the tension instead of distracting from it - tense changes on pg 5 - pg 5: the speciesist behavior of our MC isn't helping my fondness for them, either - pg 6: I still have no idea where we are. Spaceship? Space station? - pg 7: Ace had been a powerful leader <-- too many names and species in a short time. I can't keep them straight and we aren't getting detailed information on any except our MC. Introduce them slowly, with details, and let us get some buy-in before you introduce another - pg 8: why are we going to talk to someone in quarantine? I thought he wanted to find the saboteur? - pg 9: is the only way we are all getting out of here alive<-- huh? Why? Where are they? What is this new stake? I thought it was more 'contain the contaminant and find the saboteur?' - pg 10: if they are searching for a plague cure and that's the plot, it needs to be on the first two-three pages -
10.19.20 ginger_reckoning - ALITC Ch 2a, Ch 3 (4200)
kais replied to ginger_reckoning's topic in Reading Excuses
Yes! So I usually assign characters a person from real life, and then copy the voice patterns. So pick someone you know well-spouse, colleague, annoying next door neighbor kid, and then superimpose their movements and way of talking over your character. When you write the dialogue, imagine it coming from the RL person's mouth. That can give a lot more depth to your characters. We all have our archetypes we put in ever book, but you have to have enough other characters to counterbalance. -
10/19/20 - SniperFrog - The Trials -Chapter One (L,S)
kais replied to sniperfrog's topic in Reading Excuses
I'll be a counter-point to this that I really enjoyed the sister's descriptions. It was the only deep characterization in the chapter and it's a good trope-subverter for this type of word and sorcery fantasy. The word 'lechery' was strong but I assumed it would be subverted later when we got more into her character. So as a lesbian who is an avid reader of lesbian SFF, I really enjoyed this. I could change my mind later if the character remains two dimensional, but right now I found it refreshing and it is the one thing that would keep me reading into the next chapter. Which is a good demonstration that queer people aren't a monolith so do your best, and get a sensitivity reader or three if you want to publish. -
10/19/20 - SniperFrog - The Trials -Chapter One (L,S)
kais replied to sniperfrog's topic in Reading Excuses
Welcome to RE! As a quick note - you're missing word count in your thread heading Overall There's some good meat here, but I think some reorganization is in order. The inciting incident seems to be getting the weapon, and our hero is going to have to go on a quest with his friends. He is clearly a Chosen One. There's just...too much muddling around with info dumps and the red haired recruiter and such, which could be tidied so we get to the heart of the chapter - boy is excited to leave, maybe something is keeping him from leaving (this is something missing - what is the challenge? The hurdle??), he meets with friends and has a dream that finds him a sword to his destiny. Everything else in the chapter isn't needed. It slows down the tension and muddles the narrative. You can build it in more naturally later, as you go. Good first sub! Looking forward to the edits. As I go - pg 1: He was Focus <-- should this be focused??? - pg 1: this isn't a strong opening line or paragraph. A boy/man doing forms does not engage me as a reader - pg 1: Va was upset <-- Show me this, don't tell me - pg 2: the form names mean nothing to me and I don't care about his focus since I don't yet care about him. Into page two here I know next to nothing about the world or our lead other than he uses a martial art and there's at least one woman in-world - pg 4: "Oh but I made sure that the daughter was before I left though. Pleased, that is. <-- dear god can we have this story, please??? +10 for in-world lesbianism - pg 7: this story has turned into an info dump and I'm skimming. I need more world buy in before I get paragraphs of narrative story - pg 9: the friends are by far what is selling me on this chapter - pg 9: usually stick to <-- tense change - So...the sword is the inciting incident, yes? He has to go on a quest with his friends now because of this sword? -
10.19.20 ginger_reckoning - ALITC Ch 2a, Ch 3 (4200)
kais replied to ginger_reckoning's topic in Reading Excuses
Overall Some issues, noted below. I'm still not engaged with the world or the characters, and I don't know what the overall plot is. These are all things I should be firmly grounded in by chapter three of a novel. I think some edits to early chapters will remedy this. I 100% agree with @Mandamon As I go - pg 1: The dialogue here doesn't seem like real dialogue. It's stiff and feels forced. Maybe try saying it out loud to give it a more natural flow? All the characters seem to talk the same - pg 2: WRS: Why are they chasing this bird? Stakes? Also I don't have any fear of them dying in the desert at all. I'm not invested in the characters and I haven't gotten a feeling at all that the desert is dangerous. The narrative keeps just saying XYZ is dangerous, but never showing any real danger - pg 3: What in all the Keepers is that thing doing?” H muttered. “I think it’s helping us, Wait, if they didn't think it was helping them, why were they following it??? I am so confused - pg 3: And no, I don’t know why it would wait for us <-- why are they only just now questioning this after following it for, what, a half a day? - pg 3: didn’t know why the dove was acting like this <-- again, this should have come much earlier, but now that it's coming its redundant. Only one character needs to bring it up. Multiple thoughts and conversations just drags the narrative down - end of the first document - I'm not sure what this adds to the narrative. Could it not be done in just one sentence: Not knowing what else to do, they followed a strange bird that flitted continually just out of reach. ?? - pg 2, new document: I have some real concerns for the health of the town covered in that much bird poop - pg 3: this has been bugging me for a while so I'll bring it up here: 'tan' isn't a skin tone. It's a notation of sun damage. Please use actual skin tone descriptors, and then you can say that they are a shade darker or so from the sun - pg 4: the orphanage/hospital matron has the same speaking pattern as all the other characters. I think this is one of the reasons I have no character buy-in. Everyone sounds like everyone else - pg 5: there's more character development and voice in this page than in anything else I've read in this book. This is hooking me - I think the invite to dinner scene goes on a bit long, and I'm not sure what the arc is for this chapter. I feel like we are missing the final beat or reveal to bring this chapter to a close. -
10/12/2020- SarahB-PlagueShip-chapter1-(v)(g)(medical)-3,300
kais replied to Sarah B's topic in Reading Excuses
Overall I... don't actually know what is going on. There are a host of beings on a ship (?) and some sort of biological control problem? Yes? What is the through-line of the book? What are the stakes? What is the issue trying to be solved? What is the arc of this chapter and why did we need two POV characters, when neither of their sections had arcs? I think this reads more like a draft scene sketch, which is fine, and necessary, but not really a chapter. When you write your chapters, think about the arc of each chapter, and how that forwards the arc of the book. In the chapter, what did you accomplish? How did it forward the plot? The writing style isn't bad at all, and appropriately sparse for space opera (which I also write), but we need more descriptions of the aliens and setting, at least at first. Usually you just do it at first introduction and then don't bother again, but here we got one bit midway through and that was it. If we are going to be thrown into space (and I love being thrown into space) with a space opera, we need to know where we sit in the well-established tropes of space opera. Space opera is, at its heart, a giant ball of tropes. Like romance books. This is useful for writing because you can lean on tropes to do a lot of the work for you, but you have to give the readers some clue as to which way you are going and which tropes you are using. Good start! Looking forward to seeing a revised version. As I go - pg 2: we've got 2(?) alien species right off the bat but I don't know what either look like and that is keeping me from getting invested because I can't picture anything - pg 4: “Well, we don’t die today.” <-- were they in danger of dying? This was not clear from the flippant attitude. If there are these kinds of stakes, they should be clear because right now I'm not invested. I don't know why we care about these characters, what the world stakes are, etc. And I still don't know what they look like. - pg 5: the pg 5 descriptions come a bit late and come along with lots of words I'm not yet familiar with so it all gets kind of lost. Also I still am not invested in the characters. I need some meat - pg 6: some tense changes through here that need to be cleaned up - pg 6: did I miss something? Are they on a ship? A planet? I feel like a ship but I'm not sure - pg 8: I feel like there are way too many named characters for page 8. I can't keep them straight - pg 9: Like hell I will. <-- Random first person switch up? - pg 10: new POV mid first chapter is not recommended. I don't yet care about our first POV, so switching it up now makes me not want to keep reading. Give me a few chapters to get situated into one POV before introducing another. - pg 10: had done nothing morally questionable as a scientist <-- I don't believe this. Science is inherently morally dubious. And scientists are pretty much morally grey across the board. We have to be. - pg 10: carbon is not a proper noun - are any of these named, talking people women or other genders than men? Does Ar use they/them pronouns? -
As an aside, if you're going to sub over 5K words you need to clear it with Silk in the submissions post. Best not to assume it's okay, even on low-sub weeks. Overall Chapter 1 was much improved, though I still have issues with the voice. Chapter 2 doesn't seem to have a purpose, and the characters read like fresh teenagers. What was the purpose of that chapter? What was the arc? Yup. And i had no interest in it because I don't yet care about the character. I was Not A Fan I disagree on this. Get it out of the way and head that white default off at the pass. this is also the way character descriptions are going in traditional publishing, so you're right on track with it. As I go - Ch 1-pg 3: a lot of technical issues have been fixed, but the voice still seems off. We're supposed to get tension from their dire circumstances, but they're cracking jokes and that makes me wonder if they are really actually in danger - Ch 1-still, the tension is better in this new chapter. I'm not sure I'd keep reading in a book store if I'd picked this up, as the stakes aren't there yet and I'm not really connecting with the joking characters, but it's much improved from the last version - Ch 2-pg1: wait, is this a POV shift? Way too early in the book for that. If it isn't, how is this related to chapter 1? - fair amount of redundancy early on with stuff we already know from chapter 1 - pg 2: I'm so confused. Why is he hunting? Weren't they trying to get out of the desert? - pg 4: I don't have any buy-in right now. I don't care about this character or the hunting. Does this chapter serve the narrative? What is the arc? Why is it here? - pg 8: “Then help me not to be,” he said <-- it's not her job to make him less dense. Dislike - pg 8: how old are these character? They read like maybe 12-14 - I remain unclear what the purpose was for this chapter
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10/5/2020 - Name of the King - D3 Chapters 21/22 (5,569 total)
kais replied to Snakenaps's topic in Reading Excuses
Overall Much like with previous chapters, BK seems to drive the narrative, while I does not. She seems like an observer, a way for the narrative to deliver information without plot movement. At this stage I really really need to see some forward momentum, and some proactivity from our MC. As I go - we definitely don't need those first two paragraphs. They're just authorial exposition - pg 2: I think you could start with the last paragraph on this page (Hurdle's day...) and be just fine. - pg 3: I take it back. Here's your start: Onser 1st, 775... that is a VERY good hook - pg 5: a strong start with the Onser line, then...nothing happens. Just more dialogue talking about things. I want action! - pg 5: then we skip to two days later and I wonder why we had the previous interlude, since nothing actually happened of note. The chapter should really start with plot movement, so you have a full arc - pg 8: the section with the flyer and the movement by the king is good! - pg 9: I giggled at 'cougar queen'. - pg 10: It was time to write a speech. <-- ugh, really? This kills all the tension for me. I don't want more talking. Go kill some people or eat some people or something! He got angry, and we had real emotion, and I want him to do something silly and violent - pg 12: they are waiting, but nothing is happening to them. I do not like this. I want them to be a part of the action. Otherwise, what is the point of the chapter? It seems like all that has progressed the plot at this stage is BK's section. If nothing is happening to the other characters, why do we keep looking in on them? - pg 15: yup, don't care for the speech. I'd rather someone uncover this information, or there be more threat, and more tension. BK just explaining everything just kills the tension - pg 17: all the introspection after his speech could be cut. It's BK's viewpoint we should be in. He is the one doing things. I is just an observer, which is why I think I keep bouncing off her character. She doesn't do anything. I don't care how she feels, or her reactions to things, because she appears to only observe. It's BK who is doing things, so right now my interest is with him. When it's his POV I am engaged. When we leave him, I wonder why can't we stay with the plot? -
10.5.20 - ginger_reckoning - ALITC - ch1 (4417)
kais replied to ginger_reckoning's topic in Reading Excuses
Overall I completely agree I don't think so. It's a mystery that will keep the reader reading for sure. As I go - pg 3: I'd really like to know what these people look like and what their surroundings look like. I'm adrift - pg 4: The man was huge <-- these are adults??? - pg 5: I have no idea what these characters look like, or where they are. I can't place anything to the names except one is a woman. Definitely need more description through here, and we need to get to the inciting incident, or the stakes, much sooner. Right now I just feel completely lost and unsure why I care about a bunch of juvenile adults mucking around a desert - pg 6: I suspect the chapter really starts on this page - pg 7: yes, definitely cut the first five pages. this is much more engaging already - pg 8: I still have no idea what anyone looks like, or what their surroundings look like - pg 8: He studied the old woman as she lay on the stone, coughing weakly. She really was old. Her skin was dark—darker, even, than A's—and laced with heavy wrinkles <-- first description at all, and it calls out dark skin. Yellow flag. - pg 9: her hair is different, and her skin isn’t really the same shade as you guys. <-- possibly insinuating more melanin='the other'. Second yellow flag - the next paragraph helps some, but not as much as I'd like it to - I do like the pg 12 scenes a lot. Good hooks here. I think the chapter then drags on too long. Ending near or just after: Except…A didn’t feel cursed. would work better and keep tension higher, I think. Finding a way out doesn't do anything for me because I don't care about the characters yet, and I can't even start to visualize their world. -
Reading Excuses—9/21/20—JWerner—The Unnamed v.2—5028 words—V, G
kais replied to JWerner's topic in Reading Excuses
This is a review of version 3 Overall It's still well written, but I still don't know what is going on at the end. There is a lot more direction now at the start so I get invested no issue, but once they reach the gate with the dragons I get really confused. What does S do? Does she save the world? Does our MC do anything to help? What was the purpose of A? Of the monster that killed D? As I go - pg 1: 'save the world' is pretty generic and I don't think works as a solid hook. Something more specific would be better I think - pg 3: It was no good to die to what lived out here. <-- this is hard to read. Suggest rewording to make it more clear - their goals are a lot more clear in this version - pg 3: I still deeply dislike the guy kicking D awake so she takes care of the kid. I'd put this down at this point if I was browsing in a bookstore - pg 4: Sometimes there were ghosts and monsters and monsters that were men <-- second time we have had this line - pg 10: the death of D is a lot better now, though I'm left to wonder why she went in the house to begin with. They didn't need anything in there. It reads more like plot convenience. I need more of a reason why she went in when our MC refused to - pg 12: They watched. Thousands of them <-- I still don't know who 'they' are and that makes me grumble - pg 15: the narrative continues to unravel here. It's more clear than before, but I'm still lost. Why did S's body disappear? - pg 16: The creature’s shadow had her. <-- I have no idea what is going on - pg 17: The Journeyman <-- so, so confused - what happened at the end? Did S save the world? -
Reading Excuses—9/21/20—JWerner—The Unnamed v.2—5028 words—V, G
kais replied to JWerner's topic in Reading Excuses
The new one would be just fine. Thank you! -
Reading Excuses—9/21/20—JWerner—The Unnamed v.2—5028 words—V, G
kais replied to JWerner's topic in Reading Excuses
@JWerner I didn't get this one for some reason. Could you send it to me again? -
9.28.20 - ginger_reckoning - ALITC - prologue v2 (5100) (V)
kais replied to ginger_reckoning's topic in Reading Excuses
Overall The changes were great and the narrative moves along at a much better pace. Now what I think could use focusing is really getting the reader invested in either the world or the characters. With a POV switch, you naturally are going to have to work harder at this, because we don't have enough time with either POV character to get invested. The stakes, the world, are also fairly generic thus far so I can't get a foothold there, either. This could be an issue, more than anything, of voice. I can't find it. The narrative reads very basic sword and sorcery fantasy, and I want that hook of uniqueness to pull me into the narrative. Still, very good edits! It's come a long way! As I go - still a good opening line - pg 2 and we have three named characters, but only skin tone on one and it's brown. Yellow flag - I like the start as a short interlude. Much cleaner! - pg 7: getting antsy now for the plot. Still too slow coming, I think, both the plot and the inciting incident - pg 8: okay we have an inciting incident, but no real stakes. I don't feel much for this fight because I am not invested in the health or safety of the characters, and I don't know enough about the world. From all the big words being thrown around our three named characters seem Very Powerful, which makes me wonder if any of this is even a threat - pg 10: I do not know enough about the current system of governance to care about the overthrow. I need something solid to latch onto here, either the world stakes or character stakes - pg 11: another skin tone mention of brown. Still don't have skin tones on our two named men, and no white skin tone has been called out. Red flag - pg 12: And being this near to it, J felt…nothing. No anger. No fear. No curiosity. He just felt…empty. <-- the problem is, if he feels nothing, neither do I. Why should I be scared if the character isn't? -
9.21.20-ginger_reckoning-a Light in the Chaos(v)(5190)
kais replied to ginger_reckoning's topic in Reading Excuses
Welcome to RE! And ooooh I love a good map! Overall I think this is a good world sketch. Like many first/early drafts, it is more of an authorial sketch than the start of a book. BUT that is easy to rectify! I think some solid trimming is in order, especially cutting those first eight pages, getting right to the inciting incident, and laying down the overarching goal for our characters. Inciting incident and goals are the critical elements to a first chapter, while also investing the reader in the characters. This has all the elements except goals, but they're buried under fluff. A strong trim should bring them out more strongly. Honestly no, because by the time I got there I was so disengaged that it was hard to focus deeply on the narrative. I kept skimming around for the goals of the characters to see who I was supposed to be connecting to. If that is the purpose of this chapter, I'd recommend cutting it entirely. You can do all those things with the characters you are introducing in the first chapter, and more fluidly. As @Mandamon said, prologues aren't very popular with agents and publishers these days, and most won't even let you submit them. The idea is that it is either a chapter that can stand alone, in which case, it is chapter 1, or it's backstory that could be better woven directly into the narrative, so should be cut. If 'father's is genderless, why not 'mothers'? My point being that inherently gendered words cannot be genderless--they insinuate male default. YES. Stakes are also missing. As I go - Those first two lines are a good hook - pg 1: People still insisted she <-- too early for infodumps like this. I'd rather get into the narrative. this slows it down - pg 2: Could she still handle all <-- yup, way too much introspection for an opening chapter. I'd cut all this and get to the action/inciting incident, whatever it may be - pg 3: it sounds like the inciting incident is going to be something that happens at the party. Hence, I would suggest starting the narrative there or just before. These first three pages provide backstory but no solid hook yet - pg 4: POV change: these are generally not recommended mid-chapter, especially for a first chapter. It is a good idea to give several chapters with one POV, especially at the start of a book, to get the reader invested before moving to another. At this stage I do not yet care about A, so moving me to J just makes it even harder to get involved in the narrative - pg 6: it's hard not to skim at this point. I don't care about the groundwork being laid around the protestors because I don't yet care about the world or the characters. Their protesting doesn't mean anything to me because I don't know whether or not I care what they are protesting about - pg 8: here is our inciting incident, definitely too late for a hook. I'd suggest maybe a page of them being at the party to give some world flavor then get right to the screaming. Give us the background info from these 8 pages in-world as we see the action unfold - pg8: there's also a trend here of a character thinking something introspectively, then saying the same thing out loud. One or the other works, but both is redundant. Generally, them speaking is preferred to extensive inner monologue - pg 11: an extended fight scene is also probably not great here. Again, I don't have enough character buy in or world understanding to know who to root for or care if one of the POV characters gets injured. Also, I don't know what the through-line is. What is the overarching goal of the POV character(s)? What are they fighting for? - the end doesn't land for me, mostly due to the previous comment about not having a clear goal -
Overall There are some good tension points in here, but once again surrounded by fluff. I think your first chapter starts around page 7 with TBK's POV. The rest can be cut. And then the following chapter has some great politics talk and family tension, but I think it's just a bit too padded still. Same here, as did the no politics at the table! Lines. These are all things that are used in our current world by white people as a form of their privilege, and so it's hard to read it in a novel and not think how nice, to get to avoid politics. How nice, to think peaceful protests ever do anything. I think with these types of instances in the book, you'll have a hard time selling it to any agent/publisher with a marginalization or who is engaged in the BLM movement. They're...just phrases and situations used by people in power, and they don't make me sympathetic towards I's family. As I go - pg 1: this is a very slow start to the chapter. At this stage I definitely do not care about I's love of rain - the first three pages, I getting ready for the concert, could be cut easily. We've already had like three chapters of concert prep. We need to get to the concert - pg 6: The drums were like an echoing peal of thunder <-- I think your chapter starts here. Everything before it can be deleted - pg 8: okay wait, now we're in TBK's POV. Maybe it should start here then. The little interlude with I doesn't give us much. At least TBK seems to be moving the plot forward - Ch 19 recap: Okay so this chapter is the concert. That's the arc. The plot movement is TBK's POV section. I think you could start the chapter there, keep the little I endcap, and it would be much tighter and have more tension. All the stuff before it was just more slice-of-life lead up and I am positively starving for plot at this point - pg 16: ah, there was almost some good tension there with the family but now it's devolving into chit-chat. I want movement and action! - pg 21: when the start up with the politics talk again, it's pretty good. I still find it hard to wade through, possibly because of the sheer number of characters and that I don't feel grounded in the politics of the world at all. I feel like I'm constantly having to mentally cut around the fluff to get to the meat, and so I've lost little bits along the way.
