kais

I'd like to sub again this Monday pending slots

On it! Noted. She's pretty adamant on not using sign or voice, so I think she may end up using telepathy (which she's always mostly used) and also ship interfaces. I'm still figuring this out. I did want her to have really developed a lot of eyebrow and pointing language with Y, because you know he'd be fine with it. Big challenge and all. Errr. See my first response post. It's a sneaky prologue that is actually chapter one so as to not alienate my lesbian fan base. Whoops! Missing transition there I wanted it to be unrecognizable by the reader, but this seems to be tripping people up. I'll add some clarifiers. Thank you so much! Glad this has that fun vibe still Okay, looks like I need to note stakes for S earlier and cut some blabbing Ahh okay. I can clarify that for sure Check. I'll have to see if I can trim Many thanks! Some really good points in here that will help me clean.

This is a really good point and I'm making notes to make her motivation sharper in the next pass. I think just a few sentences will do it, early on. I've removed the major one, so I think that will help a lot. She's definitely a POV character. I'm hitting an issue which I detailed in my first response post. If you get a minute to comment on it I'd really appreciate it. And thank you for this feedback! It's very helpful Well, that's not horrible. I've taken out some of the infodump and clarified the main through like for S so I'm hoping that helps. there is definitely a space opera learning curve here so I'll be mindful of that in next round edits. Tramp is a class of ship in this series. Hrm. This might be something that clears itself up but I've got it on my radar Sorry yes, placeholder. I'm ignoring the timeline right now. It's complex. I need my own wiki Oh yeah, you're in for a real pronoun 'treat' in the first book... Sorry, the highlights are continuity checks for me later Thank you so much! It looks like it worked okay, especially by the end. Taking out some of that infodump should help.

Yes! She and Yor are a fan favorite, which is why I think I can get away starting the book with them. I think. Noted and edited. A chef, I am not. Ah, yup. Okay good to know. Xie is major player in book three but if you don't remember, I need to jog reader memory. yup. On it. Cutting down. yup! She's my only major character who hasn't had a proper arc so she's the most interesting, for me. My plan is that her POV will alternate with E/A It was a poor word choice on my part. Edited He's not planned at all. I do like to show a different side of him through S though. I think it will give more depth to his character, seeing him through her eyes. He's generally a bit softer around her, which I enjoy Ah good call here LOL! Okay have edited (but not the spelling. Have to keep you on your toes somehow) Yup! This is usually later edits but I plan on it. Thank you so much for these! Glad to see it's hitting a lot of those same 'trashy' space opera beats that made the original popular. Onward!

Okay, wow, thank you to everyone who came out of the woodwork to comment on this draft zero vomit! Sounds like I'm trying too hard to get readers up to speed in the first little chapter here. I can easily take out some backstory. I'm a bit stuck, and would love some thoughts on how to get through the following issue. This is clearly not a prologue. It is a chapter one. We all know this. However it's going to be called the prologue as while the books sell broadly, their primary cheerleaders are the lesfic community. I cannot have a chapter one with a heterosexual pairing and no f/f and keep my readers. Hence, the prologue designation. So in chapter one we move to our primary pairing (though S is a POV character throughout). I need enough backstory on S's relationship to the primary pairing that people aren't lost between the prologue and chapter one. Your thoughts (especially from new readers) on how much I can cut and what can stay to ease the chapter one transition would be fantastic. Thank you! Now, on to specific responses.

Always earlier for us northern folks. Alas.

My kid is SO EXCITED for 4:33pm, sundown here. Anyone else celebrating?

Overall I enjoyed the first five pages a lot, but then thought it took too long to get to the plot movement. These two chapters suffer again from the 'TBK advances the plot, I watches the plot go by' issue we've had in other chapters. I'd like to see her do more, or actually be pivotal to the plot. I was mostly upset about TBK turning into a mustache-twirling villain, instead of the sort of more lawful good he's been trending. It was very sudden and I don't know if its due to edits or something else. I think I prefer lawful good (which can be quite cruel!) over chaotic evil. As I go - I'd rearrange that first sentence so the action of the door knocking is first. It would make it more dynamic. - lot of groaning in that second paragraph - pg 3: This is all excellent emotion through here. I'm well hooked - pg 3: Okay you say species interbreeding isn't a thing but EXPLAIN THE MINOTAUR THEN - pg 5: I enjoy the sense of wonder, but am now ready to rejoin the plot - pg 7: okay, starting to skim. I enjoyed the mood and scenery for the first five pages but now I need plot advancement - pg 9: okay we have some romance plot movement but in order to hold me I need the main plot to me moving forward, too. I think often with these chapters you are just advancing one thing or another. But to be really dynamic you could advance both the main plot and any given sub plot, to always keep your readers invested - pg 10: how old are these two? Talking about kissing on the lips like they're in middle school here - chapter 30 did not have an arc and did not appear to advance any of the plot lines significantly - pg 12: how you portray TBK here just makes me continue to think he's a relatively decent guy who has a bad rap - the interlude that ends on page 14 could be cut down to just a sentence or two, easily - pg 15: Ah! The plot! - pg 16: once again, TBK advances the plot where I just experiences it - missing a 'z' on quartz on page 17 - pg 17: if it's under a tile, why does TBK think there would be a lock? No lock has been mentioned. Why do we need a key? - pg 18: this is a very sudden and abnormally evil turn for TBK. It seems very out of character and I dislike it. It clashes with my view of him from the rest of the book. I don't feel like the narrative built to this

Women can be pretty brutal. If these are interior thoughts, she'd likely just think She looked thin. Too thin. She was probably anorexic.Mostly because women are taught from early ages to compete against one another in the thin category. So even painfully thin women are often the objects of jealousy, even by otherwise well-meaning and delightful women. It's a social conditioning thing of Western society. Also the thing that caught me was the lips more than the size. I don't know if I have ever noticed a woman's lips unless that woman was Angelina Jolie. And I A) like lips and B.) like women Women talk about their breasts, and the breasts of other women, all the time. They just don't talk about them like men talk about them. You could do it in cup sizes (something like: her sister had always had those nice perky Cs, while she'd been stuck with pancake As), or if she's happy with them because they don't draw as much attention, there's (Her sister had a chest that commanded attention in a room. She, mercifully, could still go out without a bra). Or to be silly and code it more, you could do (her sister commanded a room. She was a card carrying, proud member of the Itty Bitty Titty Committee). The thing to remember is that men tend to describe breasts in terms of shape, form, handfuls, nipple direction (perky, etc.). Women do it in terms of comfort, attention other women get, sometimes nipple direction (especially if its an age thing), or in silliness. I do appreciate your dedication to avoiding male gaze!

I 100% agree with all of this

Overall As a character sketch I enjoyed it. It's a good start to getting me invested in our MC. Some issues below and I've spent some time with each of your questions. Generally I think the writing could be tightened, as well as the narrative arcs, to make this snappier. If you ever want some aggressive LBLs with cutting and reformatting to show you what I mean, let me know and I'll mark up a chapter for you. It might help you see a method to trim the fat, thereby giving you more space for your characters to interact with their world. Your questions female POV Disclosures - I am not a woman nor female, however I was socialized as one so I feel qualified to comment here. Generally, I thought this worked. There are a few slip ups like the line below, but other than that she was a fairly convincing woman, though written much younger than 35 I'd say. She read more like early twenties. At 35 women tend to not be so...flighty/caddy/noticing differences as you have your character doing. They also tend to not be so into peer pressure and what people are looking at/thinking about them. She was very slender, and had black bangs and large lips <-- you have to watch these sorts of descriptions if you're writing a woman's POV. This is not generally how women see other women. mental health I don't understand what her condition is supposed to be. She wants to hurt people...is she a straight up sociopath? Why does she want to hurt people? Is this maybe just frustration at how people do things which leads to wanting to maybe smack them because they're too slow/stupid/disorganized whatever? I need more information before I can comment on this better I think. - knew she should care about the things her sister cared about, even if it was hard. <-- this reads more like autism (which is more neurodiversity, not mental health) religion One god, sevens day--these are direct parallels to Christianity and so this reads more as a 'shove it down your throat' sort of thing than an imaginative fantasy world. I like my fantasy religions to be either purposeful allegory, or Very Different. You're sort of inbetween right now so maybe try for one or the other? In terms of offending - this is fiction. I'm deeply religious but I don't ever expect someone to cater to that in fiction. Let your imagination run wild. Build your best religion. If people get offended by a made up religion, they shouldn't be reading science fiction and fantasy chapter structure They don't really arc, which is my major complaint in terms of structure. They mostly arc so I think its just the landing you're missing, the sort of tie-up at the end of each chapter. But that's easy enough to correct in edits. info-dump I didn't feel like there was an info dump. If anything I wanted more backstory as I was missing crucial information for a lot of it. As I go - pg 1: They stood several <-- who is 'they'? - pg 1: to the “One God”. <-- this is pretty cliche while also being vague. Unless you're going for straight Christianity metaphor, I'd give the god a name - pg 3: well, flatter than her sister <-- as in she has less breast tissue, or smaller hair? - pg 3, just before the explosion: I need more worldbuilding before the explosion. She makes armor, okay excellent. Why? Why does she do it? What is the armor for? A bit more worldbuilding would help me connect better to our main character - pg 3: A reanimated automaton <-- this would have more impact if we knew these were a thing/threat in world beforehand. It just seems silly popping up right now - pg 4: I'm adrift. Backstory needed. She makes suits of armor and one is semi-sentient and attacking other suits of armor that have people in them? Yes? This is like Neon Genesis Evangelion? - pg 5: Reanimated constructs did this sometimes right? If you didn’t replace the spirit regularly, there was a chance that it would begin to redevelop its original personality <-- I am now deeply confused - pg 5: It was an enormous hand made of pure white fire. <-- is it the author??? So many random things are happening all over the place with no foreshadowing or worldbuilding. - pg 6: The Supreme Gifted are superheroes, yes? - Finances seems really small scale noting the sort of galactic problem here with souls being merged and armor coming to life - pg 11: +10 for use of singular 'they' - pg 12: because I am juvenile apparently, I keep reading 'Monad' as 'gonad' - pg 12: She friendzones him <-- I know this is just a note, but generally only men talk about 'friend zoning'. It's a very man-entitlement thing. As some meme once said, 'women are not machines that you keep putting time and kindness into until sex comes out.'

L for some swearing that is always present in these books Long time no sub! This is a draft zero prologue to book FIVE in the Ard series. It starts a new trilogy, and my goal is to make it accessible to new readers as well as entertaining for old ones. All of you will be missing some backstory, as the world continued to evolve over the last year in the Patreon, so even if you’ve read the first four books, there’s still some events you’ve missed. Since this is draft zero and I’m still working on the plot, what I most want to know is: NEW READERS: Is this engaging enough to continue to chapter one? Is it too confusing? SEASONED READERS: does the prologue have enough new information to keep you interested, even though a lot of it is recap for new readers? Are you excited about a Sal's POV? Is the tone consistent with the other books? I don’t think I’ll be regularly subbing this book for a while, but I’d like to do the first few chapters just to make sure it’s headed in the right direction, both in plot and tone. Thank you all!

Mirrors this same grumbling

I don't think it's really an issue unless your society isn't patriarchal. If it doesn't have the same male-default as our current society, then yeah, probably should change that around. If she's all scratched and stuff then her clothes are a bit torn, right? So a figure outline could be seen (hips, breasts, etc.). You could just change it to they see the outline but don't change their caution level. That would solve the whole issue. Edit: I'm of course, avoiding discussion of her actual gender. If this book will have nonbinary and such in it, it's a different can of worms. You could easily have them just ask, to normalize it. "Sorry...ma'am? I'm not sure how to refer to you, and I know that's important, even this late in life."

Overall This is another one lacking an arc and forward momentum. The little romance at the end was nice and I like the scenery of the party, but it needs another plot thread running through it to give it the power to get us to the next chapter. Same sort of overall feeling as many others - lacking forward progress, too much slice of life without purpose. Still, your writing is improving and the imagery is lovely! As I go - I'm not too enthusiastic about another chapter of preparing for performances. I'm preparation gun shy now - pg 3: I think that entire first interlude there could be boiled down to a paragraph and the rest cut. It kills the flow and tension from the previous chapter and puts us back in chitchat with no plot progression - pg 3: S had once been more than her sister. She had been her best friend. Where had ... <-- unnecessary, all of this. We know what went wrong. We witnessed it. Cut to keep the flow of the chapter and not drag us down in internal monologue - pg 5: Five pages in and I still don't know what the arc of this chapter is. What is its purpose? How is it moving the narrative forward? - I think this (farewell??) party could work if there was a second line going through it. A spy I senses, something to keep the tension through the party - pg 8: aww, a kiss

I'd like a slot for Monday I think, please

There are a few, but they'd need to be named specifically otherwise readers would o_O And @Robinski, lucky for you I was in aisle 2 already. Some oak leaves do go bright red, then brown, then hang on FOREVER until they fall in the spring.

I see my tree expertise has been called in. Will address when I get there. Also good to see you subbing! This thread has a lot of comments which I have not yet read. Overall Hmmm. Well its a reasonably well put together chapter. It has an arc, and a clear goal, and sets up the main story well enough for a first chapter. It just...lacked panache, I think. Up until they met the woman I was on board, but after that I felt like we fell intro trope and cliche with nothing unique to grip. I think maybe just a few added elements would spice it up, like if they see the glint of future zombie in the woman's eyes, or we have more stakes for the two men to draw them into the major zombie plot, etc. But generally, for a first sub this generally enjoyable. though the tree thing.... As I go - ooh I'm into the opening paragraph - pg 1: a never-ending cycle of necessary precaution <-- this is a great line - though that same paragraph gets heavy on the adjectives - some tense changes here on page 2 - pg 3: +10 for skin tone descriptions on everyone - pg 4: pls tell me this is a gay couple. I'm shipping them already - pg 4: He thought it was ... <-- as a general writing tip, you don't need the 'he thought' if the person is the current POV character. We know it's a thought because the chapter is in their voice - pg 4: go insane at the prospect of getting lost in the expansive maze of wood sentinels, ever looming above <-- this line is weirdly vague, for how specific everything else has been. Suggest more specific imagery - pg 5: His hands look lost and empty like the evergreens in winter, naked without their coats of thin needles. <-- wait what? Is he in a forest of tamaracks? Those don't usually grow with oaks. This forest does not make sense. I call forest shenanigans. - pg 5: could live without the K thinking highly of himself paragraph. Would rather see it than be told - pg 6: K closed the gap between them. <-- this tells me so much about gender roles in your society. Neither is afraid the moment they discern the person is a woman. Now I want her to like, eat them or something - pg 7: You wouldn’t believe me if I told you. <-- cliche. I was invested enough up to here, but this line makes me want to put the chapter down. It's too overused. Give us more to go on. Something juicy to keep the tension and excitement - pg 7: I lost my wife not long ago, <-- this makes me so happy. I don't know at what point this board started routinely attracting queer stories, but I ADORE it - pg 7: ZOMBIE WIFE - pg 10: I feel like the killing of the woman is taking too long. It's making the tension lag

Yes. If it doesn't advance the plot in one way or another, why is it in there? That's fine, but the reader still needs to know the reason. Otherwise why would we keep reading? These are the same problems multiple, published writers on this forum have pointed out over and over. If you don't want our help, why post at all? I can tell you straight up if you responded to an agent like this they'd drop you faster than you could blink. Same with any publisher that isn't a vanity press. Because many of us aren't willing to crit your work anymore. Your defensiveness is deeply off-putting, much like your characters. Is it credentials you need or something? Mandamon is a successful published author with reviews from major journals. I'm agented and also published in both fiction and nonfiction. My science fiction has won awards and been an Amazon bestseller multiple times. One of my books broke the top 200 of books on Amazon across their entire catalogue. We are saying the same thing. We are not hobbyists. This is not an echo chamber like the Creator's Corner. We know what we are doing in the SFF world, at least enough so to help guide new writers to help get them through the gates of publishing/agenting. There are significant problems with your writing, and you are too defensive about critiques. Now, if publication is not what you are seeking, and you are writing just for your own pleasure, this is entirely different. We would critique differently if so. If that is the case, please let us know and we can adapt accordingly. Giving helpful readability tips for personal, fun writing is very different than trying to help someone get a manuscript in shape for eventual submission.

If it’s in the public domain I say go for it. Not bad taste at all, and fairly commonly done.

Overall Some of the best movement and tension yet in the book. I really enjoyed most of this! I think it needs some cutting and streamlining, especially all the little interludes that don't seem to help the plot. The magic learning stuff was fantastic, and the little romance interlude was well placed and a nice way to break the magic interludes apart. I'm not sure if the other stuff is necessary, and I suspect it can be broken down and stuck into other interludes without losing the feeling. As I go - pg 1: The knock on the door was echoed by I dropping the broom< -- consider, especially for first sentences, more active voice. I dropped the broom, startled, by the knock on the door. - the first interlude could probably be cut. You could start the chapter with: Today was judgement day and it would be super catching and help streamline this chapter - pg 5: It's weird to me that I, who has never done much more than be pushed along by the plot, is suddenly demanding answers after BK calls her in. It's unusually passive for BK, too. I'm not saying I mind, but that it pings me as weird - pg 8: this scene with BK is the most engaged I've ever been with this book. I love it! - pg 10: Both times she had .... <-- paragraphs like this, that rehash what we already know, just slow down the tension. I'd suggest cutting it since the story is moving at a good clip. I don't need a recap on what she is thinking - pg 10: was wrong, though. It was her fault that G died. Sn was right in the fact that she had been enjoying the palace without considering the consequences for others. Not truly. She wouldn’t be so careless in the future, because next time, it might not be spy that had accepted the risks. <-- I agree with BK, and I really hoped that I would grow a bit from their talk, or at least see how to look at things differently. - pg 11: In that world, was she a chef…or something more? LOVE THIS - pg 15: could you blend the mini-romance interlude into the family interlude? I loved the romance interlude, but now going over the same things with the family, one or the other is redundant and we are losing momentum. I'm not sure what purpose the family interlude has, even - pg 22: YAYAY more magic learning - pg 21: more random interludes. Can these be smushed into others or cut? - pg 22: that last interlude doesn't appear to have a purpose

Oooh, more poetry! These were so much fun! The last one had me in tears. I feel like it needs to go on Twitter immediately! A Mariner's Heart For some reason the second stanza I don't care for. The first and third are perfect, and I see the need for the second noting the first and third. Maybe it's repetition (the sea the sea, a storm a storm)? I agree that you need something about storms there in the second to have the power of the third though. - a thousand storms she hurls at me / fiercer still than man can be <--- although likely unintentional, I like what you've done with pronouns here. The sea is a woman, fiercer than a man (using man as a single gender, not as a word to mean all people). I think it's more powerful this way, especially noting the sort of patriarchal bent of many sailors - the stanza about peace seems out of place though. What war is happening? I thought we were talking about the raging sea and yearning for home? Though the yearning for home stanza would be more powerful if we had a specific thing to yearn for. Like a lady perhaps? - 'fore death upon the land <-- oh I see. There's conflict on land so the narrator chooses the sea. I think this conflict could be brought out a bit more. You really might just need one more solid stanza to give us a bit about conflict, or even to compare land conflict to sea conflict outside of the sea being fiercer than man. Maybe the sea being fiercer than a soldier? Some kind of specific soldier? That might tie this together nicely. Jack I love the imagery in here! The pacing/rhythm seems a bit off though, or I'm not familiar with the style. Every stanza has one sentence (never the same one really) that I want to cut a syllable from (or two). It makes reading it jarring, which is in contrast to rain which I feel like is smooth and slick - you lose me with the metaphor of the distant mother. At first I thought snow but by the end I was just confused. - he comes again? He who? Weren't we just talking about a mother? - oh, so it IS snow but....mother snow and jack frost??? Hence the title Jack I assume? - wish we had the nerve.... the nerve for what? Didn't the narrator just come in out of the cold? It's almost like the narrator wants to confront mother snow/jack frost but I can't quite grasp the story - a smile to freeze upon their face....LOVE THIS - she again. I'm confused as to who the players are - I don't feel like the end fits the general narrative here. It almost seems like a personal battle, but then has a sort of moral ending to it. I'd prefer the first, as it has real spark to it (though I'm confused as to who all the players are) The Editor OMG from the first two lines I adore this already - I don't know if I care for the playin' type language in an editor. I'd expect her words to be crisp, cool, and perfect - There’ll be time enough for Tweeting / When the subbing’s done <-- I died. We weren't supposed to read The Gambler???

Yup, I'm late. I...would blame the holidays but really, I'm just behind on life. Overall Some good tension in here, and nice to see I really make a decision and start interacting with the plot! Her sister is very sister-like, and I appreciated that a lot. I think the last part isn't needed and detracts a bit from the flow, but otherwise this was a pretty solid chapter. As I go - scratching dry skin is not a particularly dynamic way to start a chapter - pg 2: ahh, here's the tension Ive been wanting most of the book! Excellent! - pg 10: I appreciate the way S is speaking to her. I want to speak to I like that a lot, too - pg 10: the revolutionaries aren't....very good, are they? They know I was being a guard. They know she knows names.Why go the day she is doing guard duty? Why ram her and not try to lie? - pg 11: You did this, I. You cost him his life <-- No, he cost himself his life by trying to kill a king through the front door. Poor planning cost him his life. And since I'm not convinced BK is all that bad, I think magic-ism / Fey-ism cost him his life - I'm not sure the last little section is needed. I think the narrative is stronger without it

Changing him would get you more critiques though. No one wants to read a book with as deeply unlikable a protagonist as Q. Why would we spend time critiquing when we don’t like the protagonist AND the fundamental issues are not being addressed? writing is HARD. And we have all been where you are, fighting against tearing our manuscript to shreds when we get our first really publish-level feedback. We understand. We deeply, deeply empathize. We want you to grow with us and be here long term. But those of us who HAVE been here long term, and do crits every week regardless of whether or not we sub, see a lot of the same issues over and over. Those who are really willing to listen and incorporate not just minor issues but large, structural issues, are the ones who stick around and who we like to really invest time in You are here. You are subbing. You have a completed manuscript that needs cleaning. We can help you, but only if you’re willing to let us.

Welcome to RE and congrats on your first sub! Sorry I'm late on this. Holidays and all. Overall I think this needs a lot of cutting and to be fitted into one chapter with a solid arc. We have what looks like an inciting incident...sort of, but no real grip on characters or world, and no greater story arc or plot progression. This reads more like a character sketch, which is just fine of course! It just needs work to turn it into the start of book that will compel a reader into the next chapter. It's a good start as you world build and character build in your head. The next step will be taking the meat out, cutting the fat, and fitting the skeleton on a narrative frame. Good luck, and I hope to read the next version! As I go - first line: If life is great and everything is perfect, why am I reading this book? Where is the tension? The plot? Opening lines should draw you in, not make you wonder why you should bother continuing - pg 2: Who am I? Where am I? What am I doing here? Why am I eating this person <-- this would be a much better opening line! - pg 2: she's looking at herself but doesn't note her skin tone. Everyone else is orange. What color is she? - pg 3: wait, is this a prologue? Ugh. Please cut unless the next chapter directly moves from this section. Especially since our character doesn't even have a name - pg 4: It was an emptiness that made lesser beings feel small and insignificant; for higher beings it was a place to call home. <-- this makes me not like our protagonist. He seems full of himself - pg 5: he's not worries so...why should we be? No tension here as there is no sense of danger - pg 6: I do not care about this battle because I do not yet care about the MC, and I have no feel for the setting or stakes. Why dos his have a....gun? Weapon? - so....two people are protecting a ship? One who doesn't seem to be in any real danger. - are we in third omniscient here or are you POV hopping mid scene? If the second, that is not advisable. It's really confusing to the reader and doesn't let us get grounded in any character - pg 8: Space Host, Coast to Coast... - pg 9: at this point I dislike Q enough to stop reading (if I were in a bookshop, etc) - ch 1: I think this could probably be cut, too. It doesn't seem to move the narrative forward (though I don't yet know what the narrative IS) and doesn't seem to have a structural arc. We get two characters, one of whom is very unlikable and a giant Gary Stu (which I don't inherently hate, but in this particular incarnation I don't see the point) and the other looks like she might just be propping him up and making him likable through her likability. - ch2: another POV? Too many too quickly. Pick one and stick with it for a few chapters so we can get grounded in the characters - ch2 is just ch1 from another POV so again, I think it can be cut. No need to rehash events that have already happened - pg 17: “Are you gonna join us on our next job?” she asked. “What is it?” “Smuggling operation. Trying <-- this is the first time I've had any idea what the plot might be about. It's also the first time I've been moderately engaged with the characters. Smuggling tropes I enjoy, but it took too long to get here. I'd have long ago put the book aside.