teknopathetic

We had these introduced in previous books but I haven’t seen any discussion of them. I think we can be pretty sure that someone has been replaced, but I wonder who we think it might be? My guess is VenDell as it would be a surpaient callback to era 1 “who is the Kandra” plot lines.

Well, the wording here is odd. Is it "couldn't" as it is not possible in any way and that it physically couldn't happen ever under any circumstance?Or Brandon might mean that a Returned couldn't use their breath for a command because the Returned would die (and that would be bad so no one would do it) I know using a divine breath for a basic command would kill a returned, but that doesn't mean someone wouldn't eventually try it despite the consequences. Since the exact exact same consequences exist for a returned using their divine breath to heal, I don't discount it based on the consequences thing.

As a similar question, what if you use a divine breath to give a regular command? First off, can you? And second off, what would happen?

To some of us the "ium" in the name is evidence Adonalsium manifested as a "metal" on Yolen. Whatever killed him/her/it seems to have splintered the metal into the shards. Some ideas I have seen are that aluminum/Ralkalest is the dead body of Adonalsium. The fact the metal has two names may be a hint that something is up there. I have seen others argument for silver.

Agreed. Most Powerful isn't the same as most versatile or most deadly. For example, stealth might be more useful that all out flare. Or longevity may be more useful than glass cannon power. How much does portability play into it? It is hard to say. But if I average these, Awakening seems to be the best.

I think a big question in Breaths. There are a lot of things to consider: We still don't really know what the God King can do. He is clearly extremely invested and there may be no "limit" to it with ample supply. What else can a divine breath do? How much art-based future-sight is possible with training and intention? Are other future-sights possible? To what extent are thing like Nightblood considered the "the strongest". Awakening can create sentient life which is very very useful. What are the non-awakening powers/uses? (memory storage and deletion for example). What other commands are there besides physical manipulation of objects? What do the Tears of Edgli do? Are there amplification effects when using them? What are the limits on shapeshifting? What about the Divine Locks? Are other things possible? Could these lineage endowments be expanded? Breath can be given to anyone and used anywhere which is very powerful Breaths can grant ageless-immortality AND has built-in ways to prevent immortality-insanity How might breaths effect other magic systems? So I feel Breaths might be the strongest IF someone gets a hold of a heck of a lot of them and has the knowledge to utilize them correctly. Unlike other magic systems, most people don't innately know what to do with their breaths and breaths seems to have only been "a thing" for 500 years.

Interesting thought. It also made me think of Vendetta (Cultivation of anger)

Well now I am confused and generally want to make sure i have this right in my brain. But maybe I’m wrong! I was always taught entropy is a measure of how much unusable energy was in a system. When I google this I get a similar result. Systems don’t tend to become more complex without energy/effort being added in directly. Systems almost always tend change from low entropy to high entropy unless there is something actively “organizing” things. That could be energy binding atoms or people building lego castles. That is, entropy is a measure of how disorganized a system is. If something is high entropy, then it’s a system that has been pulled apart and doesn’t have much organizational energy left. Over time the universe will go from Low Entropy (organized with usable energy) to High Entropy (heat death of the universe; nothing organized in mechanically useful ways) For example, a tree would have low entropy and a pile or random atoms would have high entropy. So ruin would be entropy, Cultivation would be organization, and preservation would be stasis.

I agreee Cultivation has more to do with things than just farming. It also has to do with personal cultivation (the devotaries), societal cultivation, and artistic cultivation. But to me, Cultivation is the intentional selection of elements and the intentional work one outs in to shape "what comes next" instead of it staying as it would be naturally. Cultivation is the fight against entropy and the desire to make new orders that are also well balanced. And nature is a fight against entropy. It is collecting elements and making them into high-complexity states. What is more complex than a Human Woman who paints pictures of flowers? That is as far from entropy as possible. Her society has been cultivated. Her gender expressions have been cultivated. The food she eats has ben cultivated. The art she works had to achieve has been cultivated. Everything about the woman is a fight to make the system more complex and less entropic. And the goal isn't to preserve what she has, but to take the best of herself and her world, and to sprout something new from that. Odium + Cultivation would need to be Targeted Change + Hatred/Passion. I have seen some people think "Revolution" which makes sense if the person leans more towards Odium. I prefer Conservation as that means defending what you are growing and asking out at threats to what might take your conservation off course. But who knows? "Freedom" is also something I have seen thrown around for the combination "Being able to grow yourself and not caring what others want of you"

I think we would need to go with a "nature/living-system" definition based on what Cultivation would bring to the equation.

Storing dried shelf stable foods and setting up in caverns? This whole things feels like the Set are building storage caches to survive a new cataclysm. Even going to Bilming in the final book feels like headed to Fadrex City in the Era 1 final book, which gives me "deepness" or "Ruin Endgame" vibes. In a previous chapter the Set grunt says: "Your end,” the voice whispered. “Your end comes. Either in ash, or at the hands of the men of gold and red. Gold and—”, so ... is a new Ash coming? Is that their plan to end the threat on Scadrial?

So it looks like the Set are making new survival caches to wait out another doomsday? They are hording preservable foods as if they expect to wait out a deepness-like cataclysm. We have that "the ash will get you" line making these even more supported by the text. My guess, they are going to rev up the Ruin engine This is so much like the end of Era 1 Book 3.

I guess the blade is Bright White, which is being highlighted in this artwork too. But not much to go on, I agree.

The sword reminds me of Pattern for some reason. As for Dalinar, do any paper copy people have a description of when the Stormfather was turned into a blade in Oathbringer? Would be interesting to compare. I’m an audiobook person so can’t be too helpful.

Yup, I do haha

I guess sort of. Can a human cognitive shadow enter a Singer body to become a fused? Also, Shardplate could hide a lot.

My money is on Evil Dalinar's new name much like how Moash got the new name Vasher Vyre None of this will be a spoiler. The kickstarter wont give details on who Zellion is, and then we wont learn about Dalinar's new name until the end of SP5. Or as a slight variation, Adolin will take Dalinar's place as the new Zellion (which has been vaguely forshadowed maybe) Edit: Wrote Vasher instead of Vyre

Don't read into the SP5 thing. It is not evidence at all for what we are talking about. My vagueness spoils nothing and no talk of light or whatever occurs and I was just referencing something only tangentially related =) And I see your point but still lean my way. It is interesting that it can be read so differently. Tricksy tricky Brandon.

Thank you for finding the direct quote, but I still take that as Dalinar seeing some form of radiance in the words that are being spoken. To me, the phrase “could words give off light” to me is showing that Dalinar is experiencing something visual and out of the ordinary. A person would only think that if they were experiencing something like seeing a bit of light. And while it could be a connection to the Stormfather or honour or anything, everything is just conjecture. I would say SA5 Prologue gives us a hint that the words in that book could be more than they appear, but that’s far from being a sure thing.

Dalinar sees a bright visible word-light when he hears Jasnah reading The Way of Kings at Gavial's funeral. I have suspected for a while that the glowing light he heard/saw was something important. Perhaps the words were a dawnshard held in Nohadon's words.

The without consent thing bothers me. Wax worshipped Harmony as a god, so I think there was a bit of deitific consent there. Wax just misunderstood what his religion might ask of him. As an atheist, to me it seems fair that if someone worships and prays to a deity, that the deity might utilize you for the greater good.

It also makes me wonder why Hoid is a carriage driver. Is he looking to overhear information? Is he waiting for the right person to be in his carriage at the right moment? Could it be Steris he is looking for or waiting for her to have the right moment? Wax often can fly away home and wont need a carriage, so maybe Wit and Steris are having conversations or are going to have important talks in the future? I for one would love it if it were Steris that saves the planet in the end through the forbidden art of contingency planning.

Well the Trellium spike seems to give you autonomy from Harmony's control, so to speak. It is unclear if the spike actually adds anything extra beyond blocking or changing the rules normally put into a magic system (such as the Kandra spike rule).

The choosing people to become immortal does sound a little like Odium. Plus the Set seem to really "hate" Scadrial which reminds me of odium as well. To be fair, we don't know how Autonomy makes Avatars. Perhaps Avatars are people originally. However, the "get what you deserve" is strange. Who would have a grudge? Odium seems to target the shards who broke the semi-promise and decided to dual-shard a world. And then I guess the Ire could have a grudge for what happened in Secret history. Besides that, who would say "get what you deserve?". Did Laras or Ati do something to another shard in the past? Was Trell mistreated by those shards before and now he is taking his revenge?

I guess to me I took Cultivation as loving growth and then Odium as "general or widespread hatred or disgust directed toward someone as a result of their actions". Cultivation would shape "who" Odium hates. Without another aspect to direct Odiums hatred, Odium just hates pretty much everyone. Adding in another shard would tune where that hatred goes. So I almost see Odium+Cultivation as being a radicalized hatred to towards those who do not Cultivate nature, humanity, or personal growth. The two direct enemies of Cultivation would be Ruin and Preservation, so a grudge forming towards Scadrial seems likely. Odium + Cultivation: Conservation? --- Total 90* shift, but it would be cool for Cultivation to flip entirely and begin hating its own intent when Odium+Cultivation merge. Wouldn't it be funny to have the shard of "neglect" and turn the Odium inward.