teknopathetic

In Secret History, Nazth says that there are rights and rituals that can be used to create Cognitive Shadows, so these chains might be used to do that. Maybe the chains can prevent the "soul" from leaving the realm?

It may also be the case that not every child is equal. Who knows what Chana has to do to even make a child. Maybe Shallan got a little extra for some reason? Or maybe Chana figured things out more and Shallan being the youngest is just more connected to Chana in some way. There is the theory that Chana was trying to create a replacement for herself (that being what Shallan's parents were always arguing about concerning Shallan's future)

If Dalinar did get it, I think he got it when he heard Jansah reading from TWoK on the day of Gavial's funeral. Dalinar says that he could see the words as Jasnah read them out loud. I have always suspected something really important happened there. Personal theory us that Nohadon had the Dawnshard of Unity and managed to connect to Dalinar somehow. But either way, that scene with Jasnah reading and the words almost being visible to Dalinar makes me think of Ryan and the Mural.

I guess it looks like Liren just went there as a messenger once. Hmmmm. I could have sworn differently, but looks like I was wrong.

Yes it seems like she isn’t. But she may have met her husband there. And by the wording of the deal with odium, any children born into the city would be protected. If she met Liren during his med school and stayed to have the baby there (which makes medical sense) then Khaladan would be protected from Odium per the deal.

Just wanted to point out that the Chana Davar post predates the Taln Never Broke WOB. The theory actually started as a way of explaining what the Glowing Light in the safe might be, and then everything else pulled together around that key thread. It’s the safe, not Taln, that was the key detail there. The Taln quote certainly helped grant legitimacy because the Chana theory also posited that it was nearly impossibly for Taln to have broken in the first place The theory predicted that Taln could not have broken because what could even break an insensate lunatic after 1000s of years of torture? A ticklish spot? It just didn’t make sense that suddenly the Fused found a weakness after so long. Hope the glowing light from the safe gets explained in book 5! That was the key data point of the theory and I can’t wait to see what was really placed into that safe!

Now, I don't actually believe this, but I thought I would bring it up for discussion. I am still 100% with the Shallan theory, but I wanted to try exploring another possibility: Information About Lift Her mother died x years in the past. Lift says that her mother wasted away. Possibly about 3-5 Years ago. Lift says says she is 10 for the 3rd time in TWoK (so maybe 3 years of not changing?) Who know how long it took her to find the Nightwatcher after her Mother died and Lift left her city. LIft travelled to many places as an orphaned child "After her mother died, she’d been here. She’d been here dozens of times since, in cities all across the land. Places for forgotten children". Lift felt that her wish should be that she should never have to change or grow up Lift knew about and believed in the Nightwatcher. Maybe? Or accidentally found the Nightwatcher? Lift went to the Nightwatcher Cultivation took personal interest in Lift Lift expresses abilities not seen by anyone else Lift was specifically sent a spren to bond her (a spren did not decide to bond her based on compatibility) Nightblood takes a liking to Lift immediately. Information About Lift's Mom "When you were always busy, you didn’t have to think about stuff. Like how most people didn’t run off and leave when the whim struck them. Like how your mother had been so warm, and kindly, so ready to take care of everyone. It was incredible that anyone on Roshar should be as good to people as she’d been. She shouldn’t have had to die. Least, she should have had someone half as wonderful as she was to take care of her as she wasted away. Someone other than Lift, who was selfish, stupid. And lonely." Conjecture from Other Characters: Wyndle believes that Cultivation altered her to exist partially in in the Cognitive Realm. However, Wyndle is just assuming that this occurred because he knows of no other way for that to happen. He is unware that children of Returnedlike-entities may have special abilities innate to their identity. Coppermind: "the Ring viewed Lift's youth and her experience with the Old Magic as positive traits in a candidate.[3] Wyndle found that bonding with Lift was easier than expected[6] and speculated that the Old Magic had caused her to exist partially in the Cognitive Realm" This reminds me of Vivenna having a natural connection to the magic that makes Commanding easier. Maybe Lift has a similar aptitude. Questions Why would a little girl get it in her head that Not Ageing would be a reasonable wish? Did her mother not age? How does a little girl know about the Nightwatcher? How does A little girl get to or find the Nightwatcher? Why does Cultivation agree to give a little girl such a strange boon? Is Lift's Cognitive-Realm-Slippage even the boon? Are we just assuming that? Could Lift be somewhat like a Vivenna? Why are Cultivation spren so insistent on bonding her? Why does this little girl have a foot in the cognitive realm? Is Nightblood liking Lift so much supposed to remind us of Nightblood liking Vivenna so much? What is her boon and what is her curse? Possibilities Lift's affinity for the cognitive realm sure does remind me of Vivenna and other children of Cognitive entities. We assume that Cultivation "changed" Lift, but what if Lift's powers are because she is the daughter of a Returned-like entity?

Well, Lift's timeline works almost as well as Shallan's timeline. We know Lift's mother died x years in the past, so who is to say it wasn't Lift's Herald Mother who died and the Nightwatcher and/or Cultivation took pity on the girl. I mean, how does a little girl even get to the Nightwatcher? It could also explain why Lift is so weird - maybe the daughter of a herald just operates weirdly and Cultivation wanted to experiment with that

Oh yeah, Karbradth is basically New York or London from what I can tell, so anyone could be "from" Karbrandth. Hesina doesnt seem to have any mental health issues, which makes it less likely that Hesina is a herald. I think the Checkov's Gun with Khal is that her was born in Karbrandth and that fact will cause some issues to Odium later on. There could be other Herald kids though. Lift might be one perhaps. Cultivation sure did take a special interest in some random kid.

There is a theory that Hesina's family is from Karbrandth, or that at least Khaladin was born there, and therefor Khaladin would be protected under Taravangian's deal with Odium. It would be tragic if Odium wins and Khal survives yet again. It could be that a herald gave birth in Karbrandth though - that would still work. It is the hospital city after all: --- “Kharbranth,” [Taravangian] said. “Preserve only Kharbranth. You may destroy all other nations. Just leave my city. It is what I beg of you.” (…) “Kharbranth,” Odium said. “The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses. This is whom I will spare.(…)” ---- My plan to defeat Odium is to marry every single person on the planet to the same Karbrathian person. DONE. Defeat that, Odium! Or, you start bringing woman to give birth there and then return them to their homes. If there are pact-bound people all over the planet, the planet becomes much harder to destroy. You could also start expanding the city to hilariously large boundaries. Point is, Odium left a massive opening for malicious compliance on this rule. It is too bad Dalinar will likely never know of this amazing weakness.

I guess that is the debate. Is it anger itself, or the anger one feels when they are being threatened and unable to use the law to protect yourself. Under the law, Sadaes has a year until the trial and a year to keep killing Adolin and his loved ones. That would be a justifiable rage. Shallan says "good for you" at what Adolin did, so I lean towards his action being moral to more than one radiant group. Shallan has also killed an abusive person, so their moral alignment matches well. Moral to Me: Shallan - Kills someone who is currently killing her family. Shallan has few if any other options but fatal violence. Kills to save Adolin - Kills someone who has killed his friends and promises to kill his family. Adolin has few if any other options but fatal violence. Kills to save. Grey Morals Jasnah - Kills someone who attemots to kill her and her ward. Has many options and is in no real danger. Does Jasnah have a duty to protect those who want to rape her? Shallan would likely be moral in killing them because Shallan is weaker than the men. Is an attempt on your life less immoral if you happen to be able to defend yourself? It is all super grey here. People are going to lean 1 of two ways. Jasnah sees the rapists as an enemy army against poor women, and in war killing your enemy would be seen as moral. If Dalinar went and stood in a place where he knew Listener Soldiers might attack him, would he be immoral for Dalinar to kill those who attacked him? Shallan sees the rapists as citizens, and therefor killing would be immoral. But that is more of a choice on how you view what has been happening to women, Its all - complicated. Even more so by class and ... and ...

I also think Adolin is a good person. Adolin killing Sadaes was self-defense. The Kholin's had tried everything they could to take down Sadaes legally, but nothing worked. Sadaes had made promises to kill the Kholins, and in this case, your only option is to go outside the law. There really was nothing else Adolin could do. Sadeas's death-count was already so high, and it isnt moral to expect Adolin to just wait for Sadaes to eventually pull off an assassination. Hypothetical Situation: I compare it to being in a serial killer situation. Imagine a serial killer has killed many people you loved, and now the serial killer has set their eyes on you. You know who the killer is, but you cant get anyone to stop them because they are so powerful and influential politically. The serial killer is well-connected, above the law, and the police will not help you if you seek help. You have managed to avoid getting killed so far, but eventually you will die. The serial killer has just tried to kill your father and girlfriend, but luckily the attempt was thwarted. Although, many of your friends have died to this serial killer already. There are literally dozens of widowed wives and destroyed families at this point. You have tried calling for help but no one can help you. The law cannot prosecute this person. The serial killer will just keep coming. Now, one day, the serial killer is gloating to you about their plans to murder you and your family. The serial killer is not currently holding a weapon or threatening your life at that exact moment, but they are talking about how they will kill you and your family soon. This is credible, and you are not their first victim. You notice that the serial killer has let their guard down, so you attack them while they are off guard and you manage to kill them first. This would be, to me, self defense. This would be moral. This would not be giving in to emotion. This would be stopping a credible threat to your life. There is no moral law that you can only kill an active serial killer when they are already holding the knife to your throat. This to me would be "life before death". You are chosing the lives of all those the serial killer has threated. You have exhausted every other option, so you have chosen "life" for you and those who are threated. You have protected those who cannot protect themselves.

Well, is a Herald a splinter of Honour? The heralds are "spren" so to speak, and we know Ba-Ado-Mishram was different and also the most intelligent. Maybe she is smart because she actually is/was a person?

Well, we know Taln was not supposed to even be a herald. Maybe Hoid was supposed to be the 10th, but since Hoid either did not or could not become one, Taln stepped in. I actually think the person that became Ba-Ado-Mishram was supposed to become a Herald, but Hoid as the mysterious 11th candidate also would be interesting.

I wonder if there were any Baby-Kandra mistwraiths still around. Seems like that might be easy to spike.

I think this is a popular belief. Lift is just in limbo, and she was given more connection to the Cultivation shard as a beginning step (access to Life light etc). This could be true. But maybe Lift will become a Spren? They also rarely change.

Sorry- I did a ninja edit. I do not think blood is equivalent. There is no downside to donating blood. With an organ, your health outcomes are decreased and you may be unable to live your life the same way you did before. And, your chance of dying from an infection or sickness go up quite a bit. Imagine if your priest asked for organs every week by walking down the most poor areas of town, and then children were given large sums to do so. That would be ... horrid. In Canada, it is illegal to pay people for any biomaterial like blood, organs, semen/eggs, or even surrogacy because paying the poor for their body parts is seen as a breach of medical ethics. If someone gives up a piece of their body, it should not be done because the donor is financially incentivized to do so. That is basically financial extortion.

I mean, the same could be said about organs.... The religion tells the poor that it is a great honour to be used-up by the returned, and even allows children to fulfill this task. To me, the whole thing is extremely problematic. Especially when we learn that being a drab makes you less resistant to disease and may put your health at risk for the rest of your life. Add in that you are less able to feel joy or appreciate art, and ugh....

"to Lift" also means "to steal" , so this could be a nickname she got for stealing all the time.

To me Cultivation is about destroying in order to create something new, so I believe there is an end goal to everything she does. When Honour was alive maybe she was better able to reference him in her plans in terms of what the cultivation was building towards, but it kind of seems like she has taken a new path in recent times post Honour's death (by investing in 3 people and allowing radiant to be fueled by Cultivation-light). The ultimate question I have is whether or not Cultivation was a part of Honour's death; Honour's corpse-shards would make AMAZING fertilizer for her garden, so to speak. If that was part of the plan, then I am more confident in Cultivation manipulating Todium. And since Cultivation seems cool with Odium continuing on and is willing to even help Todium, it seems like she is happy with how everything has progressed. And what does she want? A merger? Does she also believe an interstellar war is coming and she wants to use Odium's army? Does she want to merge? Cultivation + Odium = Vendetta? Does she want to free Odium and send him after Scadrial? Did she kill Honour because she foresaw the comsic war and did not think they could win if Odium were destroyed? All so strange.

I would like to know if she took a piece of Taravangian like she took a piece of Dalinar. If she truly has a piece of Taravangian, she might have an advantage there. She did say having a piece of Daliar was useful, so .... And to that, if Dalinar becomes Odium's champion but Cultivation "has" a piece of him, what does that do?

SP4 is maybe Invention Reasoning: When I first saw the world I thought of the English proverb "Necessity is the mother of invention". This is a world where necessity demands people come up with ingenious tech solutions in order to survive. People have been frantically inventing things as to outrun the sun, and in order to do so, they have invented quite a few methods to make that work. The sun is providing absolutely stunning amounts of raw power, and the people of the planet need only to find ways to harness it either through tech or magitech. The world could also be viewed as a semi-closed system laboratory. There seems to be something preventing people from leaving this planet. For example, despite all the flying ship cities, it does not appear people are actively leaving the area. I mean, maybe they are, but combined with the main-cast's belief time is almost up for them, and with the Scadrian ruins under the surface, I get the impression leaving this place is quite difficult despite the high-end tech. This makes me thing of a "lab" where the subjects are unable to leave their experiment cage, so to speak. The world is quite brutal to its inhabitants, but the quest for science and invention can be quite brutal without a counterbalancing ethical principle. As for the tech from other worlds, it could either be people stumbling upon this place and being sucked-in indefinitely, or some Invention-entity reaching out and finding new materials/magics for the experimenters to play with. MERCY: My other thought is that perhaps Mercy brought some people from Threnody here since Mercy was involved in the Ambition battle and perhaps could explain how a presumably low-tech people got to this strange place before whatever went wrong in Threnody forever changed the inhabitants there.

Still so odd to me she didnt try to splinter the shard. If no one picked it up, then the whole problem would be over. It seems she really needs Odium to "do" something with her in the future.

Cultivation seems to "take" something, and seems to think having a 'piece" of Dalinar would be useful. It would be interesting to see what having a piece of Odium's vessel might mean.

Roshar is gonzo. The Stormlight series has always been about refugee population politics, and we are going to see this cycle happen once more. Shardwise, the series is about the planet dying in order to preserve "honour" and to reap and "cultivate" something new. The hidden ending in the first books is the vision Dalinar sees of Roshar being swept by a final destruction storm that ends the planet all together. Roshar has to stand in contrast to the fates of other worlds in main-line book series, so I think Dead-Roshar is what we are going too see from both a thematic point of view (the refugee stories throughout time) and a meta-narrative point of view (it has to be different than Scadrial). We also have Hoid saying he would let the world burn if he had to do it, wherein which Roshar actually being destroyed would be an amazing pay-off to his continual threats. This might also help get Spren off-world, as the world itself went kablooey. Surely there are other ways, but the destruction of the planet Spren are connected to might also work! The destruction is also foreshadowed by the Venli vision where Odium is pulling apart the planet, and Dalinar tries to hold it together with connection. What happens in terms of Karbradth and the whole "it cant be destroyed" plotline also needs to pay off eventually, and the world actually being destroyed is certainly an interesting test of that infamous deal. What happens after Roshar is obliterated? Either a return to Braize and Ashyn in order to make those worlds re-habitable on larger scales, or another migration trail along the lines of the Iriali but where different cultural/ethnic/national populations go different ways onto different worlds. Based on something else I cant talk about here, we likely know where the Iriali end up instead of Nalthis/Ashyn/Braize. If the cast does indeed leave the system altogether, then the main cast I think heads to Nalthis since we know that world is close, Nalthis has been WOBed to have a customs office, and because we have important and powerful characters from Nalthis with key connections to Dalinar and his family. I cant decide if this happens at the end of book 5 or the end of book 10, but I am going to go with the end of book 5. The time jump to book 6 is then the cast resettling on a new planet, and the Heralds and Listeners going through yet another planet resettlement + a lot of anxiety over how this all goes this time around. The thing that makes me think it might end in book 10 is that WOB saying the series end is hidden in the first 2 books, and the series end as far as I am concerned is the World-Ending Storm seen in the final vision. I also cant decide if I prefer a Braize & Ashyn resettlement with the help of the Shards, or a crazy flight to Nalthis where the Rosharians will need to renegotiate everything they know. It would be cute if a magically protected Karbrandth-Island is floated off to some new world. Maybe Braize & Ashyn would be easier to pull off narratively, but Nalthis would just be so interesting to see adjust to this.