teknopathetic

We know the moons were there before the shards arrived, correct? So to me the moons were likely for 4 spren of Adonalsium: 1. The Night 2. The Stone 3. The Wind 4. The ??? Makes me wonder if there used to be a spren of Truth that was perhaps killed or coma-fied at some point since we get so much mention of Truth in the story. Maybe during the shattering? The horneaters mention a god of the water though, so maybe that is a candidate. The pure lake could be a hint as well that there was a water deity. The planet is mostly water, so a water deity makes a lot of sense.

If anything, it might even be good for team Jasnah. There is now a nation on Roshar that cannot be forced to fight either through draft or economic persecution. That is a great place to foment rebellion from within and might present a pivot point to work from. As well, Retribution has weakened himself by creating an oath that might one day be exploited.

We still have Lift who can make Cultivation light. Perhaps her light could be used to work some fabrials at a longer range.

Her tiny babies that are conveniently half Odium and half Honour.

It’s really unclear to me if Lift was special, or if cultivation had many agents like her. We see people with weird veins attack Karbradth, so were those Lifelight users? Are there more agents with weird veins? Did they all get used in the Karbrandth attack, or are there still more all around the story? Heck. We also know that it’s hard for a shard to leave a planet they have invested in. Maybe killing all her agents made it easier for her to leave?

Sja Anat lives her whole life on chances. She’s taken many.

I think the holdout of spren didn’t apply to voidspren. The fear was Taravangian would unmake everything and create terrible new Unmade. So think many of the voidspren and many of the unmade would still be around. If the Soren are at least a part of odium, then there is a chance they don’t get unmade. Sja Anat is a tricky one. Odium didn’t re-unmake her for some reason despite the suspected treason, and Taravangian seemed keen to keep her around too because he found her enlightening useful. There’s many reasons why Taravangian might want to keep Sja Anat around in the future as well. The honour side of the new power could even potentially see harming unmade as breaking some form of oath, making Taravangian less willing to betray his former allies.

Did pieces of Honour and Odium split off do you think? I wasn’t sure on my read.

Questions I haven’t seen 1. What was up with the Greatshells that rescued The Mink? Who sent them? Did the the greatshells do it themselves? Are the greatshells a stable nation that the Sentient Honour will want to protect for 1000 years? 2. Did Cultivation take the Nightwatcher with her? We know spren can leave because the oaths were dropped. Cultivation had tried very hard to protect her daughter from being influenced by people, and we know cultivation would prefer making a new world of her very own to create. 3. Lift can create cultivation light. Is that going to be important? Was it part of a long term plan? 4. is one of the heralds still working for Taravangian? Did she generally want to help reforge the oathpact or is she faking it? 5. Are enlightened spren going to be able to tap into the new shard better? Will the old spren begin to convert?

Also, Skybreakers could be different. The law etc is strange.

Do we know it wasn’t cultivation’s plan? She very well could have been playing a long game. She sees the future better than odium or honour after all. Cultivation wanted to leave without having her creations destroyed, and that’s exactly what she got. I think the most shocking thing we learned in the flashbacks is that Cultivation never wanted to be on Roshar in the first place. She just didn’t care and wasn’t all that invested in it. Knowing that, I think her whole plan was making a way to get out of Roshar all the while forcing other Shards to finally take up the banner against him.

Makes me wonder if Nightblood can provide any surges, just the surges he learned form the honourblades, or just the surges that Szeth was connected to on a deeper level?

Chana’s feelings on Heleran may be complex seeing as he is likely a bastard. But learning what Shallan is will be interesting. Shallan has a parent who is technically a spren, so what does that mean for her identity? And is there any truth at all to what Chana’s plan was. It didn’t work? But could it have worked with some twists? Would it have worked if Shallan died before Chana?

Overall liked the book, but the Szeth and Ishar stuff fell flat. That entire plotline felt like it was ripped out of a God of War style video game. And the reveals? It was just....none of it ever felt dangerous or meaningful. The fights were just either so easy it was silly, or so hard that you knew "the power of feelings" was going to win the day. The heralds were just too impotent, and the blade holders were just too inconsequential.

I got the impression that she had long wanted to leave the system. She actually never wanted to be there in the first place but ended up agreeing out of love for Tanner. Deals and oaths and bonds were made resulting in Cultivation finding herself in a situation where it would be very hard to extricate herself from her situation. She could have left anytime, but doing so would have been difficult, costly, and risky. If we change her plan from "Stop Odium" to "Leave this system without destroying it", Cultivation finally gets what she had been asking for for 1000s of years - to leave and make something of her own. Then Dalinar renounces the oaths which is followed byCultivation ripping out of the system. Once could say she fled, but one could also imagine that she had been set free. Not only set free mechanically, but also morally. With the other shards forced to act, the entire burdon was no longer on herself to ward against Odium.

Sorry, I was inporecise. I know they arent locking Taravangian, but they are kind of locking his ability to kill all the spren in a sense. I was using it more metaphorically.

While at first i was shocked to see Cultivation fail so hard, I then started to think of Cultivation's moves like a game of Towers. While it looks like she face planted, she actually seems to have gotten everything she could ever want out of her gambits. She owned the board and then recalled her cards without losing anything major to her: Freedom From Her Oaths and Obligations: 1. Cultivation is free to leave the world and go somewhere new and cultivate new things (she was trapped by love and then oaths) 2. Her spren can now leave, meaning Odium cant hurt them all and that the spren can cultivate new identities Duties to Morality: 3. She is not morally stuck. She can leave without letting the world/cosmere be destroyed 4. The heralds are being restored and have reforged the oathpact. 5. Have the planet slowed down so others can prepare defenses 6. Cultivation spren, the sibling, and the Nightwatcher appear to be the most safe of the spren 7. The deadeyes are being healed and are cultivating a new type of bond 8. Ba Ado Mishram is free. Cultivation broke up with Tanavast for this betrayal. That wrong is now righted Weakening Taravangian: 8. Get Taravangian to make a secret but vulnerable pocket universe he must protect at all costs (force a weak spot) 9. Maintain a chess piece on the board with Lift (her 3rd touched person) 10. Let the power of Honour continue to question and grow (maintain its secret sentience) 11. Ba Ado Mishram is free and hidden. Ba Ado Mishram can oppose Odium. 12. Taravangian does not have control of his Pool. The Listeners know where it is and can use it. 13. Appear to have no power anymore on the planet, but still have subtle plays Love: 13. Free the last remnants of Tanavast. 14. Redeem her ex lover's image. 15. Keeping the sibling alive (her child) Growth: 16. A new type of deadeye bond exists 17. Sja-Anat is cultivating new types of true spren 18. Ba Ado Mishram is free and may work with Sja Anat and Venli to design a new world. 14. New technologies must be invented with this new world. 15. New relationships are being forged with peoples and greatshells If we focus on Honour’s goals, then it looked like Cultivation failed. However, Kor was not her ex-husband. Over and over again in the visions we learn that Cultivation never wanted to move to Roshar and that her power did not like the stagnation of oaths. Cultivation always wanted to leave, and after she broke up with Tanavast for betraying Mishram, I think Cultivation started designing her exit strategy. I hope she and her daughter the Nightwatcher find somewhere good to inhabit.

Cultivation absolutely nailed her goals 100% though, right? Like, amazingly. 1. Get Taravangian to "hold Odium with honour" (literal thing she says to Taravangian) 2. Be free to leave the world and go somewhere new (she was trapped by love) 3. Convince the other shards that they actually have to help 4. Get Taravangian to make a secret but vulnerable pocket universe he must protect at all costs (force a weak spot) 5. Maintain a chess piece on the board with Lift (her 3rd touched person) 6. Keep the Heralds locking Taravangian power a bit (protecting the spren with their oathpact). 7. Keep the cultivation-based spren safe. 8. Redeem the image of her lover to the world. That's everything she wanted....

I wonder if it is semetic-like language in that it doesn't write down any of the vowels. Or perhaps they are more like cords? Maybe it is a way of writing down rhythms?

Makes me wonder if Truth was an old god that died. The three moons predate the shards, so I’d assume they were for the 3 or 4 old gods that were left there.

Cultivation didn’t even want to be there to begin with. She did it for love and then sort of got stuck holding the bad when things went wrong. This outcome means others can now try their hand at solving the problem.

One should be able to use the vacuum experiment to remove the tone from stormlight and then make voidlight, correct? As long as the de-rhythmed light heard the tone of Odium first, i should snap into voidligh? I cant fully remember how it worked, but that was the gyst?

I imagine that the 16 Shards were not fully "awake" right after the shattering. It probably took a bit for the shards to wake-up after they first bonded a vessel. Once things settled, more connection to the intent would be needed to change vessels. Or possibly, seeing as the 16 Vessels were connected to Adonalsium, that let them skip over the intent connection requirement. Or the dawnshards helped? There's a lot there to work with.

1. The Shin rally and save the day 2. Shallan kills her mother again. Possibly as a battle of champions situation where Chana has agreed to be Odium’s champion. 3. Venli’s mother brings back the Old Magic in some way 4. Tara comes back after Syl declares her love for Kal. 5. Navani dies 6. Szeth dies 7. Rlain dies 8. Pattern dies. Testament comes back and saves the day 9. Mraize dies 10. The Nightwatcher dies. A new bondspren is crowned 11. Honoir’s champion wins but cultivation wanted him to lose. 12. Rlain and Renarin co-rule a new nation. 13. Ba Ado Mishram ends up being pretty chill 14. Dalinar abdicates before the champion battle. Someone else ends up being an okay candidate. I think Shallan but not sure how. Kal has the letter of succession, so maybe he can name a champion 15. Taravangian gets defeated by a Karbrandth call back

Maybe El started off like Rlain but eventually gave up. Surely Rlain isn’t the first Parahendi to have human friends. Rabonial said peace treaties and pacts had been tried before and had failed, so who knows.