thejopen27

Storm can be used metaphorically. Both Jasnah and Wit imply that the storm is new and that it wasn't how it happened before. Jasnah with info from the Spren and Withoid with his Hoidness.

Isn't this one specifically different because there was no Everstorm before? The Everstorm is a new thing. This was not how the transformation happened in the past. As to the rest, maybe. He is known for being stubborn, and we're not exactly sure how the torture works.

Yeah, that's a possibility. How would they use their spren as a sword if it is part of them? I'm genuinely asking. Would they need to be bonded to another regular spren and have a Nahel bond? Would Eshonai need to be in dull form to accept a Nahel spren? Is that strange cometlike spren she sees circling her, pestering her, after she is in Stormform a Willshaper Spren? Dustbringer Spren?

Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia Ishar is the Herald who know the most about how it all works. All the heralds are going mad to some degree, degrading mentally. Shallash is destroying painting and statues of herself, Kelek was paranoid and jumpy in Jasnah's prologue, Nale is killing Radiants and is an empty emotionless wreck. Jesrien is possibly mad. I think, Ishar is either mad, corrupted, or willingly, intentionally working for Odium.

They already have a bond with Spren in order to function. Each form is a bond with a different type of spren. The Form bond they already have must not allow the Nahel Bond. It seems to be setting up for Eshonai to form a Nahel bond. It will be interesting to see how that happens.

Is Ishar wrong? Or was he lying?

Can you tell a sad song from a happy song? Even in Way of Kings, Dalinar and Adolin think about the mournful song the Listeners sing while they lay dying, and Kaladin recognizes the angry song they sing when he wears the bones.

I can't believe I forgot pigs! I knew pigs. The hardest one to catch was goats, Lyft describes a goat in Edgedancer but never names it.

I think Nale refounded the Skybreakers fairly recently, that's why there doesn't appear to be any full Skybreaker members. I'm curious about the Stone Shamans. Szeth thinks something while talking to Nale at the end of WoR that I made me think the Stone Shamans might descend from the Radiants. I don't have the book with me to check what it was. I'm pretty sure the Hierocracy wasn't any better or worse than a normal government. I think they were the left over bureaucracy of the Radiants that evolved into a religion worshiping the Heralds after the Radiants left. They would be the only major power left in the vacuum of the Radiants, the servants, priests, and officials that worked with the Radiants. Then the landholders/nobility/warlords decided they were tired of bowing to priests and scribes and overthrew them and wrote them into history as villains, as victors often due. One of the repeated themes in the Stormlight Archive is the distortion of history by misunderstanding or deception.

He's not just weird, he's broken, he's going mad, he is an emotionless murderer, and he has been manipulated and lied to in order to weaken the resistance to the coming desolation.

The Skybreakers just fit to me. They fit for both. They would try to destoy Shallan for bonding a Spren and they would try to assassinate members of the Sons of Honor (who appear to be idiots). That combined with the Ghostbloods associating Helaran with the Skybreakers, and Taravangian thinking Helaran was a surgebinder. Unrelated, but it's clear that Mraize knows Taravangian is up to somehtng, but has underestimated how crazy, dangerous, and powerful he is.

I don't think this one is a real death rattle. I think this one is actual, conscious last words. It was classified by the gatherers because they didn't understand it.

I think Helaran was a member of the Skybreaker organization, but not a surgebinder. I'm pretty sure he was sent to kill Amaram because Amaram was trying to start a desolation. I'm pretty sure he sought out the group his mother was a part of to get aid against his father. I'm pretty sure Helaran died "knowing" his father killed his mother. Everyone believed Lin kill his wife, no one suspected anything else. It was an open and shut case in their mind. Helaran wanted help not answers, but instead he found a cause to support.

No, I just think he's now more animated than when he was as dullform. I don't think it is anything other than them interpreting his emotions as they would a human

You're hearing hooves and think zebras

I will protect those who can't protect themselves, and I will remember those who have been forgotten fit together well. It's clear that Ym was close to drawing a Cultivation spren and successfully drew a Whatever a Truthwatcher Spren is called. (Possibly Keen spren?)

I mixed up what Taravangian and Mraize said, but as both think Helaran was in the Skybreakers I think he was. Not all the members of Nale's organization are surgebinders, The old door guard that Lift sees is in uniform as a Skybreaker, but is just a doorgaurd, The man in Azimir threatens Gawx with a knife and Lyft is able to easily run away from most of them. Why would Szeth need Nightblood if Nale expected him to get his own shardblade from a spren. I think somehting odd is happening with the Skybreakers. I think Nale is cheating somehow, or compelling Highspren to bond. It just seems off somehow. Heleran didn't know the circumstances, he blamed his father, not his mother's friend.

He wasn't there for the border dispute, he was there to assassinate Amaram, who was part of a group trying to intentionally start a desolation

From the diagram. "One is almost certainly a traitor to the others." —Paragraph 27, Book of the 2nd Desk Drawer From Edgedancer chapter 9, Edgedancer Spoiler from a post by Dantlee

That would be a cheap trick by Brandon, the implication is that Taravangian knows he sought them, because he found them.

In the Way of Kings, Shallan is told that the Dawnsingers carved the Paleneaum. Kharbranth is not symmetrical. I think similar cataclysm shattered all the places where cities follow cymatic patterns and humans (or listeners) built there cities over them. I don't think the Dawnsingers were super powerful beings, I think they were just the pre-Odium infected Listeners who aided the human refugees who fled to Roshar. The humans may think the Dawnsingers built those cities because either the Singers were already living there, or the formations were already there and the humans didn't know who could have made such magnificent structures, discounting giant, magical earthquakes or impacts.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's definitive. I was just putting together some connected ideas. It just seems like the Listeners sing. They were there at the dawn of humanity on Roshar, and if humanity saw them, they might remember them as Dawnsingers and their chant like speach might be remembered as the Dawnchant. I didn't know that humanity on Roshar predated Honor and Cultivation. Is this from a WoB? I believe humanity on Roshar are refugess from Ashyn, maybe I'll be wrong, but that's what I believe. They came and brought birds, sheep/goats, horses, minks, rats, and turtles with them (those are all the non-crustacean based animals on Roshar I could remember) but apparently not dogs or cats, but they remembered the name hound and what it was, and someone remembered lions to paint one in Urithiru.

As for the Cryptics, they seem to be watching kings. They are following Elhokar and when Shallan first sees them again there are several around Taravangian. I don't think Elhokar is a potential Radiant, I think the Cryptics are watching important people. I vehemently protest to any implication that Lin Davar is a potential Radiant. He beat his servants, wife, and sons, he ordered the assassination of his son, and most of all, he was under the influence of a shadow (Odium or one of his Unmade) that exacerbated and emboldened his madness and darkness. As far as Shallan's mother, I don't think all members of the Skybreakers are surgebinders, some like Heleran are given normal shards while others, like the man watching the door in Yeddaw are just grunts. I think Shallans mother and her friend were initiates of the Skybreakers, but not Surgebinders. One of the themes I've noticed is how time warps history to create myths and distorts important information. The Lighteyes were in charge because they were Radiants who had actual light in the eyes, the Dawnsingers were the Listeners uncorrupted by Odium, the Parshmen were the Voidbringers, the shardblades are dead spren, Humanity was from a different planet and are refugess on Roshar from Ashyn, not the Tranquiline halls, the nobility overthrew the church and servants of the lost Radiants and subjugated them and told everyone that they were lying, the Radiants didn't betray the betray the world, they just resigned, the Heralds abandoned us rather than continue to be tortured, etc.

For the greater good is generally anathema to the Knights Radiant. For all of them to abandon at once, they must have thought they were doing the right thing, that it was right to stop fighting, even if it would kill their spren. It must have been related either to what starts desolations or the death of the Almighty. Those are the only things I can think of powerful enough to lead most of the Radiants to simultaneously break there oaths. Reminder: When Dalinar sees all the Radiants arrive at Feverstone Keep they still had surges, which means they hadn't yet broken their oaths. The act of abandoning their shards must have been the thing that broke the oath.

So I was thinking about the Dawnsingers and I realized what they must have been; The Listeners before the arrival of Odium. When (the majority of) humans fled Ashyn after it was scorched and became refugees on Roshar (the origin of the Vorin myth about being driven out of the Tranquiline halls) the Listeners were already there as well as Honor and Cultivation. Odium was not yet on Roshar. When humans were struggling and scraping to survive in this new storm-blasted lands the Listeners would have helped them. Odium must have arrived and either struct a bargain with or corrupted the listeners to make them the Voidbringers. The Dawnchant was probably their language (maybe still their language) and the Dawncities may have been the cities they inhabited that the humans were welcomed into. At the dawn of humanity on Roshar, the people who sang were helpful to humans; the Dawnsingers. I couldn't find a thread on this, sorry if it's already widely known.