thejopen27

If they were Surgebinders Lift wouldn't have been able to escape by jumping out the window and climbing walls. Also Heleran was a member and it doesn't appear that he had any special abilities and his actions cutting down defenseless wounded men on the battlefield are not very honorable. Heleran also had a blade with a gem in it meaning that it was a dead blade not a live one. If Nale (and I see no convincing evidence that it isn't the herald) needed to give Szeth Nightblood for him to be effective it implies he's not giving him access to a spren (plenty of evidence saying that's not how it works) and the living shard blade granted by a spren. I just have a hard time believing a Highspren would approve of Nale's actions. As for two members of the same order. I am 99 percent sure Ym was on his way to being a Truthwatcher. His Spren doesn't seem like Wyndle at all and because it's described as looking like twisting lines of light it reminds me of pattern but a little different. He cannot be a lightweaver because of the healing but he doesn't seem like an edge dancer despite caring for the forgotten. I think it's likely the bordering orders have similar ideals. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ym chapter actually happened before the events of WoR but it is an Interlude so it needed to be placed after part 1. If not we know that Wyndle, Pattern, and Sylphrena have said they were the only Spren of their types to be sent but other orders may have sent more than one. We know too little about spren to know.

Navani tries her best but Jasnah had no use for her mother. 99 percent of people want to find romance and in a romantic (not like the section in bookstores that's always near the fantasy science fiction section but with a positive viewpoint and nostalgia for the past) novel a lot of characters will end up in love. I like the Jasnah and Vasher angle.

Water is a liquid non-oil essence which is the essence of Shalash and Lightweavers. It is theoretically one of the easiest things for Shallan to soulcast to. As for the Parshendi, in one of Eshonai's interludes it mentions that the Parshendi use stormlight to make plants grow faster. What exact process they use I don't know.

Speaking of strange lookalikes did anyone who read the Wheel of Time notice that Dalinar's scout captain was pretty much the same exact character as Matt's former horse thief scout captain. Sorry can't remember either character's name. I'm not implying that any kind of universe hopping happened here just that BS put in a little Easter Egg for Wheel of Time readers.

Yes people use a dictionary. Senescence isn't a word Brandon invented it's literal definition is the decay and eventual death from old age. It's where the word senile comes from.

Mr. T is not telling the future he was using his extreme intelligence to guess the future. Mr. T is not a prophet. I think Szeth is truthless because the Shin Shamans thought he was lying and had taken up one of the Honorblades without cause (at least the shamans thought so). Remember when Rysn and her Babsk go to Shinovar any man who picks up a weapon becomes a slave who is forced to wield a weapon as a slave. So if you pick up an Honorblade maybe they take it a step further and make you Truthless.

To Terra of Nalthis: Because she is a major single character in a ten book series and we have at least a year before the next book comes out. Also there is nothing wrong with Jasnah not having a romantic relationship but she a popular character so we like to speculate and match her with possible candidates. Its not because she is a woman either for every post about Jasnah romantic speculation there have been five for Kaladin and three for Renarin and Adolin each.

I interpreted it as the Stormfather had forbidden Syl from helping Kaladin but Syl disobeyed him to save Kaladan. I don't have the book but there was something going on there with the Stormfather and Syl defying him to come back to Kaladin to save him. It seemed like the Stormfather has forbidden Syl from helping him anymore and she expended herself to save him and the Stormfather kept her away for defying him. It recalls how at the end of the book Syl is trying to get back to Kaladin and the Stormfather is trying to stop her but she can get close because Kaladin is very close to finding the 3rd ideal. In order to keep Syl from being kept away Kaladin had to say the Ideal.

Mr. T doesn't seem as smart as he seems to think he is. He gets it wrong a lot and some of his conclusions are based on faulty information. Even the smartest person ever would get things wrong if given incomplete or wrong information. Taravangian is right a lot of the time but, especially the further he gets from he day of transcendence, he is not perfect. Mr. T may have thought Heleran was a Surgebinder (I do not think he was saying that but instead was implying Heleran was in the secret society of Skybreakers and was a trained shardbearer) but all the evidence points to Heleran not having been a surgebinder. Also is anyone worried about the motives, no that's not right word, the sanity and ignorance of human decency of Super smart Taravangian. He himself tells us that he does not allow himself to make decisions on his smartest days and that the smarter he gets the less compassionate he is, so extrapolate that to the hundredth power to how uncompassionate he must have been on the day of the diagram. What are super smart/cold Taravagians parameters for acceptable loss to preserve the species? Will his hubris cause him to obstruct or oppose other paths devised by Kaladin, Dalinar, Shallan, Jasnah, Lift, Renarin and the other Knights Radiant in his single devotion to his own plan. Who's plan is better one super smart but amazingly uncompassionate man being interpreted by people stumbling around his gibberish. Or ten intelligent, ,tested, honorable, protective, just, confident, brave, selfless, loving, healing, learned, giving, creative, clever, wise, caring, resolute, hard-working, dependable, resourceful, pious and guiding leaders willing to work together to save everyone they possibly can?

I can think of a legitimate reason why someone would need drawings of the bridgeman tattoos and insignias; how else would you infiltrate the guard? Even if whoever Nazh is writing too can lightweav their disguises they would still need a clear image of their disguise and details like the patch and forehead glyph. If they were using more traditional methods they would definitely need clear images of the patches. Nazh seems like the advance guard who comes to the planet to find out what's going on and what whoever he's writing to should know before arriving as well as any secrets he can find.

My issue is with the motives of the stone staminate. We know nothing about them. Are they opposed to the return of the Radiants, or did they just not believe Szeth. Also, are they even a secret, it seems to me that they are the leaders of Shinovar and if an outsider were allowed in he or she would probably find out about them. We just don't know enough about them, if they were given more evidence about the return of the Radiants would they change their mind? They have been tasked for 4500 years to protect and hide the Honorblades and now one person sees evidence of the Desolation that no one else does. I would be skeptical too. Also it seems to me that Nalan is misguided or misinformed in his quest to kill surgebinders to prevent the desolation. Both Syl, Wyndle and Pattern either directly say or heavily imply that their spren sent them now because they sensed the coming desolation and came to prevent or counteract it. This would imply the Spren are reacting to the desolation and not the other way around. Also Nalan should remember that the Desolations came first and Spren started giving surgebinding to humans in response to the Heralds power and the desolations. The first desolations had no surgebinders other than the Heralds as implied by Dalinar's visions, Taln, and Jasnah's research.

I think that for Szeth to attract a Highspren he will need to stop listening to Nalan and do what is truly just. Do the stone shamans deserve to die for making a mistake? Szeth is just as responsible for his murders as the people who hired him, he could have stopped whenever he wanted.

I guess a lot of it is my opinion, but as far as Nalan not having the whole picture, both Syl and Pattern mention that they are coming back because the Spren are sensing that the true desolation, the everstorm is approaching. This would imply that the everstorm comes first and then the spren responded. Also it's implied in Dalinar's visions, Word's of Radiance (fictional), and by Taln that the cycle of desolations and Heraldic wars started before the Spren started granting humans surgebinding abilities. Nalan's reasoning that surgebinders coming back will bring about a desolation is flawed logic and Nalan should know this because he was around in the first desolations before surgebinders existed. Maybe Nalan is sincere, I'm not convinced yet, but he is definitely misguided in his killing of surgebinders and possibly in denial. Also it appears that when he killed Ym the spren that grant the abilities of a truthwatcher just picked a new person in Renarin so Nalan's efforts where, misguided and futile. Also a constant theme in literature is that revenge is not justice. Even if Szeth getting his revenge is justice the ends do not justify the means. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. How you accomplish something matters.

In Shadows for Silence in the Forests of calamity there is a bright band of stars mentioned? Is this Taln's scar from a different point of view. I interpreted the stars going out as a vision of a possible future where Odium one and stars start going out one by one as Odium destroys the universe in hatred. Ha the site edited my mention of the title of one of Brandon's works

We don't know that the Stone shaman are evil just that they made a mistake and were unwilling to believe Szeth. Do they deserve to die for that? Szeth will have to decide if he wants to kill the shamans and listen to Nalan, or if he wants to do what is truly just and right. Szeth could have stopped killing anytime he wanted to, his crimes are on his own head as much as the people who ordered the deaths.

I don't think Eshonai will be a surgebinder. I think if book four is her book than we will learn about the ideals and experiences of an order through Eshonai's experiences. It seemed to me in WoR that Listeners cannot form a Nahel bond. Instead of bonding in a symbiotic relationship with a spren like a human does a Parshendi incorporates the Spren into him or herself and gains a new form through this bond. I'm not saying Eshonai can't be redeemed and can't help defeat her gods and Odium but I don't think she can be a knight Radiant. I also have serious doubts that Szeth will ever show the traits necessary to attract a highspren to become a true skybreaker but in seeing Szeths failings as a Skybreaker we may see what would make a good skybreaker.

I don't have the book with me (I lent it to my kid sister) but my opinion is Brandon gives a lot a knowing winks and cryptic answers about things because he doesn't like to just say RAFO and saying that someone is on the right track is not the same as saying they are right. I have no solid evidence other than common sense. If Brandon thinks that justice is the same as the law he needs a real life history lesson. Nalan has twisted justice to mean the absolute letter of the law no matter what. A law that allows the execution of a child for stealing food is unjust and any order founded by Spren of Honor would know this. Nalan does not rule the High Spren just as Syl is not ruled by Jesrien and Pattern is not ruled by Shallash. The surgebinders were not originally even associated with the Heralds other than similar powers given for similar traits in a person. It wasn't until Ishar (who has no power over the Stormfather) forced all of the surgebinders to submit to rules and laws and oaths that they became the knights Radiant. Syl came to Kaladin because the Honorspren decided that it was in it's best interest to send a piece of itself to bond with a human. Pattern says something similar that despite the risk the Cryptics decided to send a spren. Wyndle says that he can't believe that his spren picked lift and not someone else. None of these spren mention anything about a Herald. If Szeth was a true skybreaker he would not need Nightblood because he would have a spren to form his sword. I don't have WoB but I have common sense and logic to back up my claim. There is something wrong with Nalan, not only does he not have the whole picture (if he did he would not be killing surgebinders) but he has twisted and subverted his virtue of Justice. Justice, true justice, is doing what is right not absolute blind devotion to the law. Plus if Nalan thinks Surgebinders are bringing back the Desolation he would not be granting surgebinding even if he had the power, which I'm 99 percent sure he doesn't. Also where does it say what the second ideal of the skybreakers is? "An unjust law is no law at all." -Augustine of Hippo

Nalan does not have power to grant surgebing power to Szeth except possibly as a squire to his honorblade. Nalan has created an order of vigilantes and named them the Skybreakers but they are not true skybreakers. In order to become a Knight Radiant Skybreaker one must form a Nahel Bond with a High spren and Szeth definitely doesn't have that. In order for Szeth to become a true Skybreaker he will have to reject the corrupted Nale and become more confident and do true justice which is doing what is right not what is the strictest possible interpretation of the law. Nalan uses his vigilantes to pursue his twisted agenda of destroying surgebinders and the stoneshamans apparently. Heleran (and probably Shallan's mother) was a part of Nalan's group of Skybreaker vigilantes who blindly follow Nalan's orders regardless of whether or not they are just. Heleran's conduct was that of a misguided believer and his random slaughter in battle would be frowned upon by a Spren of Honor like a Highspren. Nalan is more concerned with the Law than with justice.

My guess for Willshaper is Rysn. Figure it our on your own but I think her personality matches and spren seem to like her. When a Parshendi bonds with a Spren they incorporate the Spren and change form. They may have similar powers but they do not form a Nahel bond which is why the Spren "betrayed" the Listeners. I believe that before Humans arrived on Roshar there were only Listeners and the Listeners were not corrupted by Odium because Odium followed Honor to Roshar. I may have my order backward there.

Where are you getting the information that Eshonai is the focus of book four (and Szeth as book three for that matter) the only thing a remember Brandon saying is that book five would be Dalinar. In a video from U books in Seattle for the Steelheart tour Brandon said something about how each book will be dedicated to a different order. Well he didn't say that the flashback character would definitely be a knight radiant of a different order but it fits the confirmed books that I've seen. Kaladin and the Windrunners were book one, Shallan and the Lightweavers were book two and Dalinar and the Bondsmiths will be book five. Also there have been near confirmations that Lift and the Edgedancers will have a book and the Renarin and the Truthwatchers will have a book. As far as Rsyn goes I think she will end up being a Willshaper. She doesn't appear to have been broken but she may be hiding a dark past and there is plenty of story in the future for her Babsk to be killed or for her to be abandoned and for her to be broken. Rsyn does fit a lot of the personality traits of the Willshapers and she was gifted a Larkin (one of the symbols of the KR) by a giant greatshell demigod.

In one of the videos up for the WoR tour BS said that one book would be dedicated to each of the ten orders. I don't know if that means that the flashback character in that book is definitely of that order. Szeth would have to make some great changes in his life to fit into the Skybreakers because killing the stone shamans and blindly following orders doesn't seem very just to me and Szeth definitely doesn't seem confident. Nalen made Szeth part of his vigilantes that Nalen has named the Skybreakers (Shallans mother and her brother Heleran also appear to have been part of this group) but a Highspren must choose Szeth in order for him to become a true Skybreaker. I'd bet money that the Willshaper will be Rysn the Thaylen merchant apprentice. She fits the personality characteristics of the Willshapers and spren seem to like her. I have no idea what a Stoneward or a Releaser would be like so I don't know who would be a good candidate. Are we sure book four will be Eshonai, because we have confirmation that Listeners cannot form a Nahel bond with a spren. When a parshendi bonds with a spren it incorporates the spren into its body which is different then how a Nahel bond works.

I think that it was the sunmaker who edited the histories as well. I think that the Hierocracy wasn't what we've been led to believe it was. It's possible that the lighteyes subjugated the church and then vilified them in their histories.

Ym is a truthwatcher, order five just like Renarin. He has access to growth and Lightweaving in his chapter he only uses growth but his Spren was very different from Wyndle who is vines with crystals, while Ym's spren is like light refracted through a crystal or reflected off water that changes size. This light characteristic implies that his other ability is lightweaving with would make him a truthwatcher. I don't know why he wasn't showing any of the same foresight as Renarin but he is the same order.

My theory is somehow Kal's mother is dead and Lirin has become the town drunk.

I think Adolin is on a dark path, his hatred and ultimate murder of Sadeas has a very Odious tone to it. I think that during the storm Kaladin and Shallan formed a bond and when she describes him she senses something special. With Adolin it seems more superficial (the only thing she ever says about him is that he's handsome). I think Kaladin's story now will be about leadership, his first two books and the 2nd and 3rd ideal were about protecting my guess is the next two are about leading. Kaladin will see bad leadership first in Hearthstone and next in Kholinar and might get tangled up in some kind of lighteyed rebellion and will have to learn to be a great leader, leading through inspiration and trust instead of fear and hate like Roshone and the Queen. His conflict will be between the darkeyed cause and bringing peace. He will have all kinds of issues reuniting with his family too his father might be dead or an alcoholic, or refuse to talk to him and his mother might also be dead. Leral has probably become very bitter married to Roshone and there will dfinately be conflict there. It would be really cool if Jasnah ended up in Hearthstone and met Kaladin. They could have some interesting interactions and then go save Kholinar together with Hoid. Otherwise I have no idea what she will do. Shallan will become more tangled between the Radiants, proper Vorinism and Alethi standards, and the Ghostbloods. We may also get an interesting viewpoint of the potential corruption of Adolin. Dalinar and Renarin who probably never saw eye to eye will grow closer and Renarin will probably become more important as he will have to have a book (either book four, but it will probably be Jasnah, or in the second five) because BS has said that there will be a book dedicated to each of the ten orders and if book three is Szeth and the Skybreakers then that makes it impossible to get all five main character radiants in the first five (Kaladin 1, Shallan 2, Szeth 3?. Jasnah or Renarin 4?, Dalinar confirmed 5). Dalinar will probably but out a call for Radiants to come to the broken plains. If it really is Szeth's book, Wit will show up somewhere to talk to Szeth and tell him what he needs to hear when he needs to hear it to help him realize he must stop Nalan from whatever it is that is his ultimate end goal. Or Szeth will become an agent of Odium and become even more hateful and broken.