Who might become the third bondsmith?

[Use the Falchion]

I'm thinking Rock, as it feels appropriate for his character's actions, past (both the parts we've seen and parts that are hinted at), and current known objectives. But I do like the theory @Blackwarder proposed about Lirin. 

[Could Be Fire]

4 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

I'm thinking Rock, as it feels appropriate for his character's actions, past (both the parts we've seen and parts that are hinted at), and current known objectives. But I do like the theory @Blackwarder proposed about Lirin. 

I like this...Rock's arc does seem to lead to him taking power in his own community, and he certainly has the personality for it acting as the heart of Bridge 4.

Honestly, I'm hoping it will be more of an outside character than him or Lirin though. Currently, the Bondsmith power is insanely concentrated in the Kholins, and I would like to see someone who can, not oppose them necessarily, but provide more balance. Navani and Dalinar are good people, but they still have major faults and their history as the paragon of Alethi supremacy can't be ignored. From a narrative perspective, since Navani and Dalinar are so connected I'd expect the last Bondsmith to be an outsider.

I think there are some really interesting wild card candidates, especially considering we may not see the Nighwatcher bond until the back half. I looked for minor characters, but ones who have had enough presence or hints of an arc that it wouldn't be odd to see them come to greater prominence. Also ones with either leadership potential or placed into a leadership role, since that seems to be a foundation of Bondsmith-ness. Finally, I tried to see who seemed to be 'Cultivation-y' for lack of a better word, with an arc focused on growth and change.

The best wild card candidates in rough order of likelihood imo:

• Jaxlim (Venli's mother) --> Had a leadership role in her community but has deteriorated and has a major need for growth. I think the Listerner's fit well in Cultivation's vibe in general, Jaxlim is just the most obvious candidate since the other named character's in Venli and Leshwi's group have a likely order (Willshaper/Windrunner). Also, more Singers with Nahal bonds seems to be the direction we're heading and what more obvious way to herald the formation of a new Roshar than with a Singer Bondsmith.
• Yanagawn/Gawx (Lift's friend the leader of Azir) --> So far arc is already about learning to be a good leader. Young, but should be an ideal age after timeskip. In the sweet spot of character relevance. Already had some impactful conversations about leadership/power.
• Redin (the heterochromatic Veden dude) --> Even more of a background character, but has shown up twice in noticeable ways with no real payoff yet and has a 'major character' sort of backstory. Had a claim to the Veden throne at one point and a personal hatred of Taravangian. Could fit in the narrative space for a leader of the anti-Odium/anti-Taravangian Veden's who have been pushed out of power. Can also see him becoming more prominent initially as part of the reveals about what the hell was going on in the Davar household.
• Savrahalidem (Taravangians daughter, Karbaranth's Queen). Has leadership position. Only just mentioned by name, but the drama of Odium's daughter would be interesting. Cultivation also seems to be very personality invested in the Nighwatcher, and I can see her hand-picking Savri to bond with them as part of the larger plot to manipulate Tar-Odium's actions.
• Dieno enne Calah/The Mink (the Herdazian general) --> Major minor character in a leadership position. Has a quirky vibe that reads as sort of 'cultivation-y' to me. Herdazian's in general seem to vibe well with the Cultivation, similar to the Listeners. This far down because he doesn't have the 'potential for growth' vibes as much, and is already a central part of Dalinar and Navani's hierarchy (and is specifically Dalinar's subordinate) which I wanted to avoid.
• Some Shin character we'll meet in Book 5 --> Shinovar is a black hole right now but clearly will become more important. Also, Szeth is unlikely to be the only person to doubt the Shamanate, and there is potential for an interesting narrative foil if you have Shin Bondsmith learning how to be a military leader vs Dalinar (Alethi Warlord) learning how to promote peace.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Could Be Fire

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Could Be Fire said:

 

• Jaxlim (Venli's mother) --> Had a leadership role in her community but has deteriorated and has a major need for growth. I think the Listerner's fit well in Cultivation's vibe in general, Jaxlim is just the most obvious candidate since the other named character's in Venli and Leshwi's group have a likely order (Willshaper/Windrunner). Also, more Singers with Nahal bonds seems to be the direction we're heading and what more obvious way to herald the formation of a new Roshar than with a Singer Bondsmith.

I think she already Bonded a spren to become a Willshaper at the end of RoW.  I dont see her double bonding or switching to a Godspren, unless something tragic happens to her new spren first.

[Could Be Fire]

35 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I think she already Bonded a spren to become a Willshaper at the end of RoW.  I dont see her double bonding or switching to a Godspren, unless something tragic happens to her new spren first.

Good point! That slipped my mind, for some reason I remembered Venli connecting with her but forgot the spren entering her gemheart (－‸ლ). I guess Yanagwan is best wild-card pick then, or possibly still another Singer from Venli/Leshwi's group.

[teknopathetic]

For equity, it better be a Singer. Lighteyed Humans arent the only people worthy. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by teknopathetic

[Vin(Diesel)]

3 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

For equity, it better be a Singer. Lighteyed Humans arent the only people worthy. 

The reason the first two were humans may have been that spren weren't bonding singers yet (correct my timeline if I'm wrong). We'll see about the third.

[Could Be Fire]

16 minutes ago, Vin(Diesel) said:

The reason the first two were humans may have been that spren weren't bonding singers yet (correct my timeline if I'm wrong). We'll see about the third.

Also, Sibling was explicitly going to bond Rlain. Navani was an 'otherwise we'll both die' choice.

[LuckyJim]

So far only Reachers and enlightened spren have been willing to bond singers. Blended entertained the possibility, but it seemed more of a "devil's advocate" type thing. I think the only singer Radiants we're going to see for a while are going to be Willshapers with Rlain being an exception. It'd be great for more spren to bond singers, but unfortunately, they are very racist.

That being said, Khen and Thude are two of my choices for Nightwatcher Bondsmtih, even if I feel like it's very slim odds that they would actually happen.

[Quantus]

6 hours ago, LuckyJim said:

So far only Reachers and enlightened spren have been willing to bond singers. Blended entertained the possibility, but it seemed more of a "devil's advocate" type thing. I think the only singer Radiants we're going to see for a while are going to be Willshapers with Rlain being an exception. It'd be great for more spren to bond singers, but unfortunately, they are very racist.

That being said, Khen and Thude are two of my choices for Nightwatcher Bondsmtih, even if I feel like it's very slim odds that they would actually happen.

The Cryptics are very pragmatic, I honestly would not be surprised to find they've bonded a few obscure Lightweavers just for the varied experience (even if they thought it would end badly, as with Shallan and Pattern). 

The Skybreakers could very easily start getting some Singer members, given Nale's logic for joining the Void. 

Several of the other Spren cultures seem more against Bonding at all than specifically lingering anger towards the Singers.  Now that those tides are turning and the battle lines this time around are not quite as racially defined, I entirely expect to see more racial mixing among the orders.  

I am also waiting to see one of the orders split more evenly, with their associated spren race having a civil war over the sides they're choosing.  

[Ciridae]

My money is on Rock or a singer, but there aren't many great candidates there. I love Navani as Bondsmith but it would have been great to have Dalinar a human, Rlain a singer and Rock who is a mix between both as Bondsmiths. 

I also really like the Idea of Gawx as a Bondsmith for the back half. He had that very interesting throwaway line with Dalinar about how maybe he is the leader Roshar really needs while Dalinar is just the emissary. If Dalinar ascends he could bond the Stormfather.

I could also see BAM bonding a Radiant in the back half. Maybe even Sja-anat, but I think that is less likely than BAM finding a Bondsmith.

[Blackwarder]

On 2021-11-16 at 10:12 PM, Could Be Fire said:

Honestly, I'm hoping it will be more of an outside character than him or Lirin though. Currently, the Bondsmith power is insanely concentrated in the Kholins, and I would like to see someone who can, not oppose them necessarily, but provide more balance. Navani and Dalinar are good people, but they still have major faults and their history as the paragon of Alethi supremacy can't be ignored. From a narrative perspective, since Navani and Dalinar are so connected I'd expect the last Bondsmith to be an outsider.

I can’t think of someone more suited to be a pain in Kholins’ ass than Lirin tbh.

He is the most un-Alethi Alethi in all of Roshar, I mean we are talking about a pacifist Alethi, and a stubborn one to boot.

[BinarySecond]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:49 PM, Letryx13 said:

I’m so frustrated by this, for the record, I really wanted him as a BondSmith. 
Having said that, I think a singer would make a good BondSmith, someone who swears to bring humans and singers together. But I don’t have a specific one in mind. 

I wonder if we could get Leshwi

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I wonder if we could get Leshwi

Leshwi seems to think that it would be impossible for her to form a bond.

[Vin(Diesel)]

I don't think Lirin will bond the Nightwatcher, because the Nightwatcher is a splinter of Cultivation and Lirin is of Honor - he keeps his oaths obsessively. 

[+robardin]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:55 PM, Zapata said:

Not a Bondsmith, but any Radiant swearing an Ideal would make him sane. That's part of the reason Szeth is going on the mission. His presence in Shinovar guarantees that an oath will be accepted if the overall mission succeeds because he will cleanse the Shin leadership. 

What was it Brandon said, unambiguously, as far back as right after TWoK?

"Do not believe anything a Herald tells you. Ever. They are all insane."

There are like 40 full Windrunners with Blades. Every Order has Radiants. Have we seen Heralds "go lucid" so often? Two of them reside(?) at Urithiru; wouldn't this have been noticed? Taln would have said something besides his broken mantra?

Or if it's just Ishar who "is sane when an Ideal is spoken near me", well Navani want particularly close, unless it requires a Bondsmith ideal, and is a Spiritual effect so physical distance didn't matter... In which case, one of the two Bondsmiths should go.

And finally, Ishar was sane enough to tell Dalinar this for what, one minute? If he could reset the Oathpact with his Honorblade so quickly, why not do it instead of yakking during the window of sanity?

It all smells like a trap to lure Dalinar (who he evidently intended to "come to him in Shinovar"). Why there?

As my daughter would say, "Sounds pretty sus."

 

 

[Milk]

Leshwi thinks that, but evidence suggests otherwise. The Fused are not under Odium's direct control, as his and Dalinar's talk proves. In addition, as Venli shows, Odium and Cultivation's powers can exist together. The question, then, is whether Cognitive Shadows like a Fused can bond a spren; the answer is yes, as Nale has a spren. It's entirely possible for Fused to form Nahel bonds.

[Frustration]

Just now, Milk said:

Leshwi thinks that, but evidence suggests otherwise. The Fused are not under Odium's direct control, as his and Dalinar's talk proves. In addition, as Venli shows, Odium and Cultivation's powers can exist together. The question, then, is whether Cognitive Shadows like a Fused can bond a spren; the answer is yes, as Nale has a spren. It's entirely possible for Fused to form Nahel bonds.

Nale is of Honor, not Odium, We know that certain forms of investiture will repel spren, such as spikes. I see no reason Odium would be any differnet

[Milk]

17 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Nale is of Honor, not Odium, We know that certain forms of investiture will repel spren, such as spikes. I see no reason Odium would be any differnet

Presumably you're referencing this WoB. Firstly, it's not the Investiture of hemalurgy that seems to drive spren back, but the damage in the Spiritweb. Second, we already see spren interact with Odium's Investiture; Timbre bonds with Regals, and Venli even uses Voidlight with no ill effect to the lightspren. 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Milk said:

Presumably you're referencing this WoB. Firstly, it's not the Investiture of hemalurgy that seems to drive spren back, but the damage in the Spiritweb. Second, we already see spren interact with Odium's Investiture; Timbre bonds with Regals, and Venli even uses Voidlight with no ill effect to the lightspren. 

Odium's investiture, not a dirrect Connection to Odium himself.

[Milk]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Odium's investiture, not a dirrect Connection to Odium himself.

I don't think just a Connection to Odium would drive away spren. Odium mentions his Connection to Dalinar grows in Chapter 112 or RoW, for example. Besides, it's not that direct a Connection. Odium doesn't seem to be able to directly communicate with Fused at will, aside from the Nine, and all we really see is his rhythms overriding the natural ones. 

[Frustration]

Just now, Milk said:

I don't think just a Connection to Odium would drive away spren. Odium mentions his Connection to Dalinar grows in Chapter 112 or RoW, for example. Besides, it's not that direct a Connection. Odium doesn't seem to be able to directly communicate with Fused at will, aside from the Nine, and all we really see is his rhythms overriding the natural ones. 

Zahel indicates it's a direct Connection, and I trust his assesment

[Milk]

16 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Zahel indicates it's a direct Connection, and I trust his assesment

That's a good point. He says that they "seem Connected to Odium to feed directly on his power." Still, it's unknown whether a direct Connection to Odium would drive away spren, and if so, whether it is due to the power itself or how the spren feels about it. If it's the latter, the Nightwatcher, the one spren completely disconnected from human perception, would probably be willing to bond a Fused. In addition, the Old Magic may be able to change Connections.

[Bort]

On 11/16/2021 at 8:12 PM, Could Be Fire said:

Currently, the Bondsmith power is insanely concentrated in the Kholins, and I would like to see someone who can, not oppose them necessarily, but provide more balance.

Ialai Sadeas, perhaps?

[BinarySecond]

20 minutes ago, Bort said:

Ialai Sadeas, perhaps?

I got some bad news for you champ

[+Bliev]

I think Cultivation keeps the Nightwatcher away in order to specifically prevent a bonding, seeing if granting her short interactions with humans can provide a similar growth process to the one usually provided during bonding. I always thought that seeing her daughter bond and then be thrown back into insensibility upon the death of her Radiant was too painful for her (the Goddess of growth watching such a regression of growth in her only daughter must have been awful for her to witness). Although I wanted Rlain to bond her, for this reason, I really don't expect anyone to. I like the idea of not having one bonded, and what I don't want is for there to need to be three bondsmiths to change the world like the power rangers or calling Captain Planet. ;-) 

With that SAID, if there was a third bondsmith, Rock seems like a good choice to me.