Long Game 81: Lasting Integrity?

[dannnex male]

MYLO
mislynch and lose

where the heck does that Y come from

MislYnch and LOse?????????????????????????

 

also hi im back
kinda slightly forgot about this game
thoughts and stuff coming later
maybe

[ashwastaken]

12 hours ago, Lahilt said:

 

While reading through the post for day 2 I found this interesting from Ashwastaken. The last part where they say  'it’s really the only thing you village people can do'. Is this an Elim claim or am I reading this wrong? @ashwastaken

 

That was indeed an elim claim, do with it what you will as I’m sure some of you don’t believe I’m elim. You should also read through my reads list

 

Anyways, I’m sorry I’ve been so inactive, school’s been getting in the way. Also sad we mislinched and got a NK, that really sucks. I think the elims have been going for low info kills, although I haven’t read the elim doc so I wouldn’t know.

 

Edit:

“Also, note it's unlikely that Araris and Ash are e/e because of D1 interactions.”-TJ

Does this mean Araris is elim if I was village? I know my alignment, so does this mean I know araris’s alignmentment or could we also be v/v?

Edited October 28, 2021 by ashwastaken

[Araris Valerian he/him]

14 hours ago, Illwei said:

There are 9 players left, and 5 votes are needed for a removal.

Does this mean that I'm worth 2 players? Or is my bus the 9th?

I really liked the reads list that Archer posted during the Night turn, it basically fit everything I was thinking. I also think elim!me wouldn't have made the kills that have been made this game, so if Archer and I are on the same wavelength in terms of reads, I don't see him advocating for those kills.

However, my interaction with Danex last cycle felt fairly positive to me, so I think I'll join TJ on Lahilt. I'm not a fan of him pointing a finger at Mat following a village!Mage flip, since it's pretty common for Mat to tunnel on villagers as village. And I'm not sure yet if I've played with Mat where he has artificially constructed a tunnel as an elim player to fake being village.

[dannnex male]

17 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I think I'll join TJ on Lahilt. I'm not a fan of him pointing a finger at Mat following a village!Mage flip, since it's pretty common for Mat to tunnel on villagers as village.

Well, to be fair they are new. Lahilt would have no idea of how mat plays, so they wouldn't know that it's (apparently) common for mat to do that. 

If it came down to a Lahlit or Mat exe, I think I'd slightly prefer a Mat one. (I'm still definitely vil reading him, but if it came down to those two...) The elim team so far has shown some amount of experience in the way they're choosing low-info kills, so I think looking at older players will be a bit more productive.

10 hours ago, Archer said:

I'm gonna kick things off with a vote on Dannex. See my reads list for the rationale. 

I'm lazy and I do not wish to find said read list

rationale please?

Edited October 28, 2021 by Danex

[Lahilt he/him]

32 minutes ago, ashwastaken said:

That was indeed an elim claim, do with it what you will as I’m sure some of you don’t believe I’m elim. You should also read through my reads list

 

Anyways, I’m sorry I’ve been so inactive, school’s been getting in the way. Also sad we mislinched and got a NK, that really sucks. I think the elims have been going for low info kills, although I haven’t read the elim doc so I wouldn’t know.

 

Edit:

“Also, note it's unlikely that Araris and Ash are e/e because of D1 interactions.”-TJ

Does this mean Araris is elim if I was village? I know my alignment, so does this mean I know araris’s alignmentment or could we also be v/v?

I went back and reread Ashwastakens posts, I see it is just their playstyle and not a mistake. I thought it was too good to be true and mostly did it to elicit a response.

 

10 hours ago, |TJ| said:

Alright, elims are going for low info kills, Tani and TUO preferred over the likes of Az, Danex and Lahilt which might be indicative. I do think group 3 which I mentioned last cycle is more probable than 2. Someone on Mage in D1 is evil [Mat, Araris, Ash] (excluding Archer, I'm v reading him) and someone else who could not switch to Mage for whatever reason [Danex, Lahilt, Az]. I'm thinking 2 from the first part and 1 from the second. Also, note it's unlikely that Araris and Ash are e/e because of D1 interactions. I'll vote for Lahilt because their vote on me D1 felt like bandwagoning. 

This vote was a definite bandwagon. because we need a majority vote, one or two votes on a player in round 1 as not as much threat and because I wanted a day 1 kill you were a good option.  

I will vote and post some reads later. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Lahilt

[Mat he/him]

I’ll go Araris in opposition to the Lahilt vote. I think it’s interesting that TJ didn’t vote within his first group especially since he cited thinking two elims were there. Lahilt seems like an easy out.

I know that TJ would make more sense as a retaliation vote but as everything else in the game stands I’d rather vote Araris.

I can see a world where e!TJ and e!Araris vote v!Lahilt to save e!ash but that seems too obvious and convenient to be one hundred percent true.

20 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

And I'm not sure yet if I've played with Mat where he has artificially constructed a tunnel as an elim player to fake being village.

*takes notes*

Edit: @Danex Technically Lahilt isn’t new. They played 2-3 games about a year ago, a bit after I joined SE. That was before I nailed down any form of playstyle though.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Matrim's Dice
Ninja’d by Danex and Lahilt :P

[dannnex male]

Ya know what, I'll join mat on Araris. The more I think about it the more I don't like that Lahilt vote, and if the elim team is composed of more experienced players (like I think it is), name someone who's more experienced than araris. 

We should start consolidating votes anyway, otherwise we might not exe anybody. 

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Edit: @Danex Technically Lahilt isn’t new. They played 2-3 games about a year ago, a bit after I joined SE.

Well, my point about them having no idea of how you'd play still stands i think.

[|TJ| he/him]

45 minutes ago, ashwastaken said:

Does this mean Araris is elim if I was village? I know my alignment, so does this mean I know araris’s alignmentment or could we also be v/v?

Yeah you guys could be v/v but since I think there's 2 elims out of you, Araris, and Matrim - not likely :P.

13 minutes ago, Danex said:

Well, to be fair they are new. Lahilt would have no idea of how mat plays, so they wouldn't know that it's (apparently) common for mat to do that. 

We've played together before, though it was before you joined. LG66 and LG67 comes to my mind. 

13 minutes ago, Lahilt said:

This vote was a definite bandwagon. because we need a majority vote, one or two votes on a player in round 1 as not as much threat and because I wanted a day 1 kill you were a good option.  

This is exactly a reasoning I'd expect an elim to give - since we need a majority vote, giving that as a reason is the best way to cover bandwagoning. Vote mechanics makes it easier to bandwagon and give it as a reason. 

12 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I’ll go Araris in opposition to the Lahilt vote. I think it’s interesting that TJ didn’t vote within his first group especially since he cited thinking two elims were there. Lahilt seems like an easy out.

I don't have any reason post-wise read to go after you or Araris, since it's only my assumption that group 3 was trying to get Mage out but couldn't. Since ash already had a vote I wanted to broaden the discussion and later consolidate the votes if required. Piling votes very early in the cycle would only limit discussion like in C2. 

12 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I can see a world where e!TJ and e!Araris vote v!Lahilt to save e!ash but that seems too obvious and convenient to be one hundred percent true.

As said above, willing to vote out Ash. But after this post of yours, willing to vote you out over Araris or Ash :P.

Edit: 

9 minutes ago, Danex said:

Ya know what, I'll join mat on Araris. The more I think about it the more I don't like that Lahilt vote, and if the elim team is composed of more experienced players (like I think it is), name someone who's more experienced than araris. 

Kills don't feel Araris-like at all tbh. Also, there isn't anyone who is more experience than Araris in SE :P. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by |TJ|

[Araris Valerian he/him]

22 minutes ago, Danex said:

Ya know what, I'll join mat on Araris. The more I think about it the more I don't like that Lahilt vote, and if the elim team is composed of more experienced players (like I think it is), name someone who's more experienced than araris.

My elim kills would be Archer, Mat, and then TJ (only last because he was busy early on) (also assuming that none of these are my teammates). That's all the most vocal players besides myself gone, so controlling the thread wouldn't be too hard from there.

29 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I’ll go Araris in opposition to the Lahilt vote. I think it’s interesting that TJ didn’t vote within his first group especially since he cited thinking two elims were there. Lahilt seems like an easy out.

Why are you opposing the Lahilt vote (as opposed to perhaps joining it)? And wasn't your initial elim read on me based on your 100% certain elim!Mage read?

[ashwastaken]

I am.. incredibly confused. Will post more after class is over. I am clearly elim though /s

[Archer he/him]

31 minutes ago, Danex said:

I'm lazy and I do not wish to find said read list

rationale please?

From the reads:

-Tani voted for them. More interestingly, Mat said Danex-Tani likely v-v, so the kill removes a threat and gets village cred.

-On Team Info Exe – sheeped Mat for D2 vote too. I've been suspicious of everyone trying to create a sense of urgency early in the Day by saying we need to get any exe, especially when our Nights are being underused. 

-Gave a lengthy rebuttal to Tani connection accusations. Seems like e!overthinking

1 hour ago, Danex said:

MYLO
mislynch and lose

where the heck does that Y come from

MislYnch and LOse?????????????????????????

That was my first thought too, I don't get it. 

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

My elim kills would be Archer, Mat, and then TJ (only last because he was busy early on) (also assuming that none of these are my teammates). That's all the most vocal players besides myself gone, so controlling the thread wouldn't be too hard from there.

Always kill Mat first. That's Rule Number One. :P. But to your point, it suggests we have an elim in that group. Possibly more, and they're leaving other actives alive because it provides cover for why they themselves haven't been NKed. 

That said, I think I prefer Lahilt to Araris at this point. I'm always wary when someone says "I read the thread and changed my mind", I feel like it's a thing elims do to justify backing off a vote without really needing to come up with a reason for it. 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

But to your point, it suggests we have an elim in that group. Possibly more, and they're leaving other actives alive because it provides cover for why they themselves haven't been NKed. 

Yeah, that struck my mind as I was posting that. But Mat's unwarranted(?) aggression towards me might make him a good candidate for that position. Gotta see how things play out today.

The alternative (and probably unlikely) possibility is that the elims are lying low and hoping us active players kill each other off under the assumption that one of us must be elim. This is Illwei's first game GMing though, so I doubt she would make the elim team full of quiet folks. That runs the risk of them all going inactive.

[Mat he/him]

Araris

For his point on who he’d kill

And only because of his point on who he’d kill

Reread notes and vote coming in about an hour 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[Lahilt he/him]

I am going to vote Danex, I am not really comfortable with an Araris lynch this turn although that is losing steam anyway.

[dannnex male]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

From the reads:

-Tani voted for them. More interestingly, Mat said Danex-Tani likely v-v, so the kill removes a threat and gets village cred.

-On Team Info Exe – sheeped Mat for D2 vote too. I've been suspicious of everyone trying to create a sense of urgency early in the Day by saying we need to get any exe, especially when our Nights are being underused. 

-Gave a lengthy rebuttal to Tani connection accusations. Seems like e!overthinking

E-Me wouldn't kill someone over one vote =P
I doubt any SE player here would kill someone over one vote
that just wouldn't be smart

I am no longer on team info exe, as now we have more info. I don't see anything wrong with being on team info exe in the early game

I was gonna do that no matter who died, it wasn't a rebuttal, it was an ISO. This last point definitely feels a little conf-bias-y

6 minutes ago, Lahilt said:

I am going to vote Danex, I am not really comfortable with an Araris lynch this turn although that is losing steam anyway.

Wow, top 10 anime betrayals
My vote on araris was like 80% because I didn't like his vote on you

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

Kills don't feel Araris-like at all tbh. Also, there isn't anyone who is more experience than Araris in SE :P. 

They feel very araris-like to me =P
iirc he is def a fan of low-info kills

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

Yeah, that struck my mind as I was posting that. But Mat's unwarranted(?) aggression towards me might make him a good candidate for that position.

38 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Araris

For his point on who he’d kill

And only because of his point on who he’d kill

the tunnelvision part of me wants to say this feels very Araris/Mat e/e
logical part of me says that it isn't near enough to make a claim like that
the 2 parts compromised and we're just gonna point it out and see what others think

 

seems like Araris exe isn't gonna happen, but I'm not sure who else I like as a candidate

[Mat he/him]

Conclusions from reread:

• Danex is just village. Every time. This is hilarious because it's a complete 180 of my previous read :P.
• I still tone-read ash's posts as leaning village but there are a few that seem directly from an elim mindset. Or that feel off/different. They stuck out this time around. Like this one. But their post directly afterwards seems village to me. And this one. Idk what to think about them legitimately analyzing themselves and reading themselves village as opposed to just putting themselves as the top of their reads list.
• Araris has multiple occasions jumping onto bandwagons (I think almost every one of his votes are this). Not sure how to feel about that. I probably shouldn't put so much stock into him saying who he would kill... but I believe him :P.
• Archer strikes me as a more villagey ash. As in I'm reading him extremely village except for like one or two posts. Which I distinctly remember that these posts exist but cannot for the life of me find them.
• Lahilt seems totally fine to me. Not sure what the votes on them are about.
• I still read Mage as elim and it's cracking me up :/
• I have no clue what Az would play like as elim but this seems about normal regardless... I guess you could say that Sacrifice from the QF is the equivalent of elim and Az played about the same there. I give them points for snap-voting Mage D2 tbh. I think their overall sort of condecendingness is more villagery than not but probably NAI.
• I feel like TJ voting ash at the end of D2 is more elimmy than not. But there could be so many opinions on what that looks like. I think that an elim wouldn't want to jump on the train late (especially TJ, who hadn't posted anything in awhile) and would want to get cred for not killing a villager. Now the question would be if e!TJ would vote a teammate there...

Making my updated reads list as follows (ordered within tiers):

• Village:
  • Danex, Archer, Lahilt
• Null:
  • Az (+), Araris (-)
• Elim:
  • ash, TJ

TJ

[Lahilt he/him]

16 minutes ago, Danex said:

27 minutes ago, Lahilt said:

I am going to vote Danex, I am not really comfortable with an Araris lynch this turn although that is losing steam anyway.

Wow, top 10 anime betrayals
My vote on araris was like 80% because I didn't like his vote on you

I expressed suspicion of Araris if Mage turns village. You join Mat in voting for Araris thinking that I would join you out of self defense putting 3 on Araris, with an alternative lynch of me.

If: Lahilt dies and flips Village you get cred for not supporting this vote.

else: Araris dies and removes one of the most dangerous villagers from the game.

I may be tunneling but it does look like a good E:Danex move.

 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

48 minutes ago, Danex said:

iirc he is def a fan of low-info kills

I generally have 2 different approaches to a game, which end up with wildly different kill targets. The first is what I've said already. My other approach involves killing low active people as a sort of CC or attempt to keep the thread active. These kills end up being low-info, but that isn't really the point. Recently I've switched to a much more aggressive form of elim play because of meta things and people getting used to my old elim strats and way too many elim games in a row. So I can play either way, and I guess you all can decide which playstyle meshes more with how I've been playing in thread.

I mostly like Mat's read list, in that it is at least consistent. IF TJ is elim, then most likely Danex and Lahilt are village. And Ash/TJ is a sensible elim team based on D1 voting. But I don't see how that puts TJ as his strongest elim read. Also, @Matrim's Dice, could you elaborate on Danex and Lahilt, independent of TJ's theoretical alignment? Like, what specifically do you have them down as doing that is villagery?

Also, if there are 3 elims, this is it, right? 5-3 goes to 3-3 and we lose. Makes me think that there are only 2 elims, since otherwise the game could have ended C2.

If TJ is village, then the elims probably split their votes D1. And probably both voted Mage D2. That would make me think one of Mat/Ash is elim. And then one of Danex/Lahilt. The elims have been killing people that didn't vote for either Mage or TJ, so that makes me think TJ and Azmine are less likely to be elim.

So my elim teams are Ash/TJ, Ash/Danex, Ash/Lahilt, Mat/Danex, and Mat/Lahilt. So while I'm still happy with Lahilt, I'm going to switch to Ash for now.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

Also, @Matrim's Dice, could you elaborate on Danex and Lahilt, independent of TJ's theoretical alignment? Like, what specifically do you have them down as doing that is villagery?

Overall, I think that both of their tones and mindsets have been solvy and genuine throughout the whole game. They've been consistent. Idk if there's anything specific from either of them, like a certain post, or something though.

I didn't read Danex as village earlier because of his defense of Mage, but knowing what we do now that is something specific that I think is villagery from Danex. I like the way he went about reading Mage, as opposed to TJ, which didn't feel as real.

Lahilt's activity is NAI but I like their efforts regardless. Can you explain why you're good with voting Lahilt? Genuine question.

7 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Also, if there are 3 elims, this is it, right? 5-3 goes to 3-3 and we lose. Makes me think that there are only 2 elims, since otherwise the game could have ended C2.

...Hmm is that maybe a case for not voting today? I guess with 2 elims no. But 5-3, no kill -> 5-3, elim kill -> 4-3

Puts us in the same theoretical position as we are now with one more village flip that likely would just be another low info (though we're running out of those) and if there's two this would be a terrible strategic decision. So disregard that yeah we still should kill today. I don't think we have an especially better chance with one more green.

If people are better with Ash then I'm fine with that but I'd rather do TJ.

[dannnex male]

@Illwei Vote count por favor

13 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

IF TJ is elim, then most likely Danex and Lahilt are village.

This claim confuses me
plz explain

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 hour ago, Danex said:

@Illwei Vote count por favor

This claim confuses me
plz explain

You both voted for TJ during C1. With no doc communication, that’s a risky play, and no offense, but I don’t think it likely either of you would go for something like that.

[dannnex male]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

You both voted for TJ during C1. With no doc communication, that’s a risky play, and no offense, but I don’t think it likely either of you would go for something like that.

i guess that makes sense?
so what if TJ is village? is the inverse true?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

34 minutes ago, Danex said:

i guess that makes sense?
so what if TJ is village? is the inverse true?

Well, not really. e/v interactions can be very similar to v/v ones. My best guess is that the elims would have split their votes D1 if none of them was threatened. 

[Azmine_king]

Yeah I looked it over, Illwei won't announce MYLO, but I'm 99.9% sure it is. Especially in this setup, I suggest we dont lynch anyone cause our POE isn't even that great today.

[Illwei]

Danex (2) - Archer, Lahilt
Lahilt (2) - Araris, TJ
Araris (1) - Danex
TJ (1)- Matrim

LMK if something is wrong with the vc.