Unpopular Brandon Sanderson Opinions

[Pineap-spider]

6 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Again, is this Alloy of Law Steris, or later Steris?  They really do seem like two distinct characters, and the latter is far more likeable than the former.

Just checking with my friends, most of them agree that later Steris is better, but still not their favorite. One did say that he liked her a lot more now though.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

4 hours ago, justice magician said:

hmmm I would disagree with Alloy and TLM being out of place and/or not working super well in the series  . . .

I feel like the point of era 2 was to transition Mistborn from not being Cosmere involved to being fully Cosmere involved. It works like a scale, slowly becoming more and more Cosmere-y so that era 3 is less jarring from the perspective of someone who's only read era 1 and 2 (but not the other cosmere stuff). I feel like Brandon pulled it off fairly well considering it wasn't the planned course of action. Alloy doesn't have anything to do with the Cosmere, but it does set up characters that eventually will, so I wouldn't say it contributes nothing (also . . . Alloy is one of my favorite Brandon books ever so I might be biased). I really do think it helps give era 2 a base before things get more intense and complicated. 

As for the TLM I can see where your coming from, but I personally think it did add to the characters pretty well. I agree with you about the sanderlanche being just kinda 'eh' though. I try to think of TLM as less of a finale for era 2, and more as a bridge from era 2 to era 3. It was, imo, a good ending for era 2, but the focus of that book was a big finale or ending for era 2. It needed to prepare the reader for era 3, and so that extra purpose to the book makes the ending feel a little bit odd. 

As for TLM not being a mistborn book I would agree. But. . . it's my opinion that non of era 2 is a true mistborn story. Because . . . well . . . there's no mistborn in it (no, wax using the bands does not count). Not that that is a bad thing though, I truly love era 2! I just feel like mistborn isn't the best brand name for the (allow me to coin a term) Scadrial Saga. Era 2 and the story going forward won't really focus on mistborn themselves, allomancy maybe, but that's different. I'm not entirely convinced we won't ever see a fully fledged mistborn ever again, but I just don't think it will be a focus the way it was in era 1.

TL;DR: I kinda agree with you but kinda not and I rambled about it alot whoops

Hmm.

For Alloy, it isn't a bad book. I love it to death. It just does not have the same gravitas as the others in the series. Though, as I keep on thinking about it, it may climb my ranking lists as time goes on.

For your argument, the transition to the Cosmere really only happens in TLM (in Mistborn era 2 directly). Yes, we had the cameos in the other books, but they were not a build up to the level we got in TLM. TLM we got full on crossovers with saying their names directly who were straight from the other books. Maybe I just have a sour taste in my mouth from how the MCU has been handled recently, but I just really want the big crossovers to be handled more delicately than in this one. It felt far too much of a coincidence that we had so many named characters and groups that we know in this one. 

(Sorry this took so long. I completely forgot to post.)

[Ravenclawjedi42]

They shouldn’t adapt the Cosmere. The books are just fine on their own, and I don’t need to see a bunch of actors (too many of which would be white) showing me the book (which I can already imagine just fine!) and getting annoyed at everything they change which won’t make the plot work.

I may be somewhat overly pessimistic about this 

Edited January 6 by Ravenclawjedi42
I felt like adding an emoji

[KelsierFortnite]

This is Marsh

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:28 PM, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

They shouldn’t adapt the Cosmere. The books are just fine on their own, and I don’t need to see a bunch of actors (too many of which would be white) showing me the book (which I can already imagine just fine!) and getting annoyed at everything they change which won’t make the plot work.

I may be somewhat overly pessimistic about this 

I get that.

Just having it as a book would let everyone picture it however they like, more white or not. Personally, as a white guy, I automatically see it as more white than black when I read one of these books by pure virtue of the fact that I am white and primarily have come in contact with other white people, not of choice more of by virtue of opportunity. Therefore I am more oriented to picture white people in the roles. It's not inherently bad to pick someone from one or another group of people as a certain role, but only when it comes into play where their skill is. The important thing is not picking one group specifically over another for the fact that they are that other group. In some cases, it is because of their experience as a person from another group in particular that makes them really up for the job. The guy who played the bad guy in Inglorious Bastards was chosen specifically because he had the caliber and because he knew the languages necessary to play the role. He was chosen because he knew the languages from experience, not because he was white. He was chosen because he knew about a certain thing, and that is a great reason to cast absolutely anyone in any role. Now, to continue giving examples, picking a person because of the group they are from is an awesome thing to do when done for their experience in that group (regardless of, from mid to super good, skill). A great example of this is right here on the Shard. We haven't gotten a specific person (that I know of) yet for this, but the example is here nonetheless. The staff want a person of color on the team to help with how they run things because they are a primarily white group of people and they want as many perspectives as possible. I love that they're doing this for that reason and not for the reason of making society happy. 

and....

I've gone off topic.

Basically, in summary, I think anyone can play any role as long as they do the character well, regardless of any group they may belong to, whether I agree with their views or not. If they can act and at least look fairly like the character (I don't give a crap about looking exactly like the character. Leah is Annabeth Chase, whether you like it or not), they can rusting well play the character.

Now, to address your actual concerns, I agree. They should just be books, said and done. But here's the thing, if there's a movie or a tv show or something, then there is more exposure for the books and more people get to experience at least a form of the story we've come to love and cherish. There are a lot of changes that will, inevitably happen. But that's why we get big anime arcs that do every little thing from the books and we all wind up happy because people found the same exact thing as we found in the books, but flashier.

[The Stick77]

8 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Basically, in summary, I think anyone can play any role as long as they do the character well, regardless of any group they may belong to, whether I agree with their views or not. If they can act and at least look fairly like the character (I don't give a crap about looking exactly like the character. Leah is Annabeth Chase, whether you like it or not), they can rusting well play the character.

Somebody had to say it thank you. The issue with race in media is that some group of people is going to get mad no matter what you do. For the Cosmere in specific it’s hard because well there really aren’t a whole lot of white people on some of these worlds particularly Roshar. Overall I think it’s something people get way too worked up about (just look at the fit the Percy Jackson fandom had or what Disney got after the Little Mermaid and now Snow White). Overall I would hate for this to be the reason an adaptation fails. Maybe my thoughts came out a little jumbled but yeah that’s it.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

57 minutes ago, The Stick77 said:

Somebody had to say it thank you. The issue with race in media is that some group of people is going to get mad no matter what you do. For the Cosmere in specific it’s hard because well there really aren’t a whole lot of white people on some of these worlds particularly Roshar. Overall I think it’s something people get way too worked up about (just look at the fit the Percy Jackson fandom had or what Disney got after the Little Mermaid and now Snow White). Overall I would hate for this to be the reason an adaptation fails. Maybe my thoughts came out a little jumbled but yeah that’s it.

Yeah. I myself think that the case is a little different for Snow White specifically, but that’s a whole other thing.

yeah, I do think that in casting, we should mainly be looking for the ethnicity the character is described as looking like, but my point is mainly that they don’t necessarily have to be.

The casting threads are all going to blow up in a few years… I can imagine the arguments already.

[Lord Spirit]

You could do a Reckoners movie without worrying about the cast too much. 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

8 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

You could do a Reckoners movie without worrying about the cast too much. 

That's a good point. And an Alcatraz movie too.

[Lord Spirit]

7 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

That's a good point. And an Alcatraz movie too.

And rithmatist, because it would only get controversial in the sequel. 

[The Stick77]

That’s true actually most Non-Cosmere stuff wouldn’t matter a ton. Cytoverse describes ethnicities pretty well and occasionally race pops up in the plot such as Morningtide in book one. Cosmere is difficult because it’s A. What the most people care about and B. Has a lot of canon races that people wouldn’t want to disrupt.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

2 minutes ago, The Stick77 said:

That’s true actually most Non-Cosmere stuff wouldn’t matter a ton. Cytoverse describes ethnicities pretty well and occasionally race pops up in the plot such as Morningtide in book one. Cosmere is difficult because it’s A. What the most people care about and B. Has a lot of canon races that people wouldn’t want to disrupt.

My personal opinion on the Cosmere as that anyone can play any character, but we should also at least try partially to get someone who is of the ethnicity of the characters as described, however we also need to be very open to people who are not described the same way playing the characters, because they can do as good or even a better job than the other person sometimes. 

Idk tho, it's very difficult to tell how to make it fit for at least most audiences. Personally, I'm just glad I'm not in charge of it. I would mess it up so badly lol.

[Mason Wheeler]

1 hour ago, The Stick77 said:

The issue with race in media is that some group of people is going to get mad no matter what you do.

The bigger issue is people cynically exploiting this, using minorities as a shield against well-deserved criticism.  You make a bad product, you put a minority front-and-center as the face of it, and then when people point out that your bad product is bad, you deflect criticism by accusing the critics of being racist/sexist/whatever.

I really hope the Cosmere never ends up in the hands of Disney, or any other producers who will engage in this sort of crap!

26 minutes ago, The Stick77 said:

That’s true actually most Non-Cosmere stuff wouldn’t matter a ton. Cytoverse describes ethnicities pretty well and occasionally race pops up in the plot such as Morningtide in book one. Cosmere is difficult because it’s A. What the most people care about and B. Has a lot of canon races that people wouldn’t want to disrupt.

Especially given the recurring "tell" that the best way to spot a Worldhopper is their ambiguous ethnicity.

[The Stick77]

2 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

The bigger issue is people cynically exploiting this, using minorities as a shield against well-deserved criticism.  You make a bad product, you put a minority front-and-center as the face of it, and then when people point out that your bad product is bad, you deflect criticism by accusing the critics of being racist/sexist/whatever.

This is true 100%. I wonder if this is part of the strategy in Disney’s live action “adaptations”. Create controversy to ensure publicity and then have an easy defense when people trash it. I don’t care if they switch the race of a character it doesn’t matter but that does seem to be a bit of a recurring strategy for Disney recently.

[Longshot97]

Elantris was fine, actually /j

[Mason Wheeler]

1 minute ago, Longshot97 said:

Elantris was fine, actually /j

I liked it a lot.  The Graphic Audio adaptation of Elantris, though, was abysmal, nowhere near their usual high standard of quality.

[J. Magi]

On 1/5/2024 at 12:30 PM, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Hmm.

For Alloy, it isn't a bad book. I love it to death. It just does not have the same gravitas as the others in the series. Though, as I keep on thinking about it, it may climb my ranking lists as time goes on.

For your argument, the transition to the Cosmere really only happens in TLM (in Mistborn era 2 directly). Yes, we had the cameos in the other books, but they were not a build up to the level we got in TLM. TLM we got full on crossovers with saying their names directly who were straight from the other books. Maybe I just have a sour taste in my mouth from how the MCU has been handled recently, but I just really want the big crossovers to be handled more delicately than in this one. It felt far too much of a coincidence that we had so many named characters and groups that we know in this one. 

(Sorry this took so long. I completely forgot to post.)

Allow me to apologize back, as it took me forever to reply . . . . I guess we're even now.

Quote

It just does not have the same gravitas as the others in the series.

I would argue this was the point. imo, era 2 was meant to be a bit more grounded and personal, rather then epic and large scale. Even when things do get on a larger scale in TLM, the story still doesn't have the stakes or massive feel of what was going on in era 1. Era 2 is meant to be more personal, so it started very small scale, and got a little bigger each time. In short, I don't think the scale of Alloy is a flaw, in fact I think it adds to era 2 as a whole.

Quote

For your argument, the transition to the Cosmere really only happens in TLM (in Mistborn era 2 directly). Yes, we had the cameos in the other books, but they were not a build up to the level we got in TLM. TLM we got full on crossovers with saying their names directly who were straight from the other books.

I can understand where your coming from, with the transition feeling to big and too fast . . . like, I get why'd you'd make that critique but I still disagree. I genuinely think the transition is in the other books and works. This is how I see it:

1. Alloy- is a happy little self contained story. There is a brief mention and use of Harmony (or a shard) at the end, giving us the first itty bitty taste of the larger cosmere. We even get out first hint at Trell here. Cosmere references are more Easter eggs, and less plot relevant. Hoid Shows up briefly.

2. SoS- Is more aware of the larger world and the main conflict has directly to do with a Shard (harmony), as well as other things out of the ordinary. It's more cosmere than Alloy, but still fairly self contained. Cosmere references are still Easter eggs. Hoid shows up again briefly. This is still not a cosmere book, but it's building towards the transition. Hoid shows up briefly again, I want to say he has dialogue but I can't remember (but I think it's worth noting his closer to the MC's than before- as Wax's carriage driver).

3. BoM- This is were I think we get to see the real transition. Cosmere references are no longer Easter eggs, they may not quite be plot relevant yet, but they are to many of them, and they are too direct for me to see them as Easter eggs. Specifically I'm thinking of Hoid, and how he gives Wax the Kelsier coin. He directly effects the MC's, and the plot. Not to mention we have many more clues that point to Trell. This book doesn't directly do stuff with the cosmere, but it's setting it up for TLM, and imo it did it really well. We're on the very edge; the characters are aware of larger things going on, but don't know how to deal with that yet.

4-TLM- We move into a full Comsere novel, building on the transition we got in BoM.

This is of course my personal opinion, the cameos and other things in the books leading up to the TLM were enough of a transtion for me, and I think if Brandon had added more it would feel forced. I can see were your coming from though, as the level of Cosmere Stuff TM, Jumps considerably from BoM to the TLM. This didn't particularly bother me though, and  I didn't see it as a flaw of the series.

Quote

, but I just really want the big crossovers to be handled more delicately than in this one. It felt far too much of a coincidence that we had so many named characters and groups that we know in this one. 

I kind of agree with this part of your argument actually, though it didn't take away from the book for me. I think I would have preferred more involvement from Kelsier, and less from Moonlight and the other guy. We spent so long getting exciting about Kelsier returning and then he's only in like, 2 scenes. It was cool when I realized I recognized the characters but I agree that it did feel a bit like a stretch. (Though I do think Shai makes a fantastic ghostblood, it felt a little out of pocket). I really like how brando did Kaise though, with her only showing up for one scene, and it not being immediately obvious that we already know her. 

Quote

this box accidentally got put here and I can't figure out how to get rid of it lol

On 1/5/2024 at 11:28 PM, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

They shouldn’t adapt the Cosmere. The books are just fine on their own, and I don’t need to see a bunch of actors (too many of which would be white) showing me the book (which I can already imagine just fine!) and getting annoyed at everything they change which won’t make the plot work.

I may be somewhat overly pessimistic about this 

I'll be honest, if they do make a live action movie I won't complain, but I think the chances of it being terrible are much higher. Animation is the way to go, if you're going to do an adaptation at all. (but that's just my extremely biased opinion). Please Brandon I'm begging you watch spiderverse.

3 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

The bigger issue is people cynically exploiting this, using minorities as a shield against well-deserved criticism.  You make a bad product, you put a minority front-and-center as the face of it, and then when people point out that your bad product is bad, you deflect criticism by accusing the critics of being racist/sexist/whatever.

*cries in Rings of Power*

[Mason Wheeler]

15 minutes ago, justice magician said:

Animation is the way to go, if you're going to do an adaptation at all. (but that's just my extremely biased opinion). Please Brandon I'm begging you watch spiderverse.

The first one only, please.  The first Spider-Verse film was great, but the second one was really bad because the writers had no clue what they were doing, and all the cool style in the world can't save a poorly-written film.

[Lord Spirit]

He did tease tress as an animated film at the end of the State of Sanderson. 

[J. Magi]

26 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

The first one only, please.  The first Spider-Verse film was great, but the second one was really bad because the writers had no clue what they were doing, and all the cool style in the world can't save a poorly-written film.

I could not disagree more. The second movie was just as good, if not better than the first. 

But hey, you do you man.

[Longshot97]

6 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

He did tease tress as an animated film at the end of the State of Sanderson. 

Tress of the Emerald Sea would make a hilarious musical.

[J. Magi]

8 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

He did tease tress as an animated film at the end of the State of Sanderson. 

 

1 minute ago, Longshot97 said:

Tress of the Emerald Sea would make a hilarious musical.

I was actually thinking when I first read it that it would work really well in a studio ghibli style.

[Mason Wheeler]

2 minutes ago, justice magician said:

The second movie was just as good, if not better than the first. 

The problem with the second one was that it set up a third movie that cannot deliver on the promises it made.

Spoiler

The narrative tone requires that Miguel turns out to have been wrong about how "canon events" works, and that Miles will find some way to achieve a satisfying ending.  We get a hint of that with Gwen's dad deciding to quit the police force, apparently introducing a loophole.  (And the film is so proud of itself for coming up with this that never stops to consider that there is now an opening for a new Captain on the police force, who will almost certainly end up being one of Gwen's dad's subordinates who gets promoted, someone very close to him and probably to Gwen as well...)

The problem is, the film showed us far too many details, both in the things that did happen and in things that didn't happen, in the "the dog that did not bark" sense, providing extremely strong evidence that Miguel was right.  So the authors have painted themselves into a corner here: either they have to 1) strongly contradict the facts of the second film, 2) pull some very blatant and unsatisfying retcons, or 3) have Miles tragically learn the hard lesson he will have spent the better part of two films trying to avoid learning, which violates the tone of the narrative.  None of these possibilities makes for a good conclusion to the story.

And it doesn't feel like the writers ever even realized any of this.

[J. Magi]

18 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

The problem with the second one was that it set up a third movie that cannot deliver on the promises it made.

  Hide contents

The narrative tone requires that Miguel turns out to have been wrong about how "canon events" works, and that Miles will find some way to achieve a satisfying ending.  We get a hint of that with Gwen's dad deciding to quit the police force, apparently introducing a loophole.  (And the film is so proud of itself for coming up with this that never stops to consider that there is now an opening for a new Captain on the police force, who will almost certainly end up being one of Gwen's dad's subordinates who gets promoted, someone very close to him and probably to Gwen as well...)

The problem is, the film showed us far too many details, both in the things that did happen and in things that didn't happen, in the "the dog that did not bark" sense, providing extremely strong evidence that Miguel was right.  So the authors have painted themselves into a corner here: either they have to 1) strongly contradict the facts of the second film, 2) pull some very blatant and unsatisfying retcons, or 3) have Miles tragically learn the hard lesson he will have spent the better part of two films trying to avoid learning, which violates the tone of the narrative.  None of these possibilities makes for a good conclusion to the story.

And it doesn't feel like the writers ever even realized any of this.

Spoiler

Once again, I disagree? The conclusion will prove Miguel wrong, but he won't just be wrong about Miles's dad needing to die, he'll be wrong about the canon events and how they work as whole. I personally think he doesn't really understand how the canon events work (or even if that is what it is at all). I mean, perhaps a policeman dying is just a common thing that leads spiderman to have the character development to be spiderman, but that doesn't mean every policemen who knows spiderman in every universe has to die. The point of the policemen dyeing is to provide character development for peter parker. 

Likes take into account Pavitr. His girlfriends dad was the policemen that 'needed to die.' The guy almost dies, but Miles saves him, and this causes an anomaly in the world.

Before this, Pavitr was super over-confident and easy going, he didn't take being spiderman seriously. But afterword's, he's more sober and understanding of the stakes of his job. He has now seen first hand what could have happened and that changed him. Pavitr got his character development, but the policemen didn't die.

 As for the anomaly on his world, I think that was caused more by Miles + crew messing up what events are supposed to happen, by chasing the leonardo da vincii guy (y'know who I mean, I forgot what he's called). The anomaly was caused by crossing over universes and messing with the timeline. Perhaps Pavitr's policemen was meant to be put in a life and death situation later on for pav's character development. But our universe hopping crew messed that up by forcing it to happen too early, causing an anomaly. The anomaly was not caused by policemen guy living, and the policemen guy was not required to die for pav to get his character development.

So, if the canon event is actually spiderman receiving character development, not a policemen dyeing (though it does happen in that way often), then what would Miles's dad dying do to Miles? I doubt it would make him a better spiderman, in fact I think it would probably really mess him up. Miles already knows the dangers of his job from his first adventure in film one. That doesn't mean he's a perfect spiderman, but he doesn't need the character development that his dad dying would provide and/or his dad dying wouldn't provide the correct character development for him in his specific situation at all. 

Miles's character is developing, as he goes through the films and stand for what he believes in. The films/what adventures he goes through are his canon event, making him a better spiderman. His dad dying would not make him a better spiderman, and is thus not part of the canon event.

But . . . this is a cosmere discussion thread, and we may be getting off topic. Also, your opinion is completely valid, and it's not up to me whether you enjoy a film or not. 

(Edit (just in case you ever see this again): I was overthinking last night and realized you may not have seen my reply, because it's in a spoiler box right next to the quote box, so it's a little hard too find. The comment outside of the spoiler box comes off as a little dismissive if you didn't read my counterargument, and so I want to clarify I didn't mean to be like that in any way. If you did see my counterargument then just ignore me lol)

Edited January 9 by justice magician

[Pineap-spider]

21 hours ago, justice magician said:

I'll be honest, if they do make a live action movie I won't complain, but I think the chances of it being terrible are much higher. Animation is the way to go, if you're going to do an adaptation at all. (but that's just my extremely biased opinion). Please Brandon I'm begging you watch spiderverse.

I completely agree. I think animation would convey the complexity of the magic better. For example, I have trouble imagining Syl in live action and looking good. On the other hand, I think it would look a lot more natural in an animated format. I think I'd like Mistborn in a "The  Dragon Prince" animation style, (decent show). that's how I imagine it in my head at least. Nothing to hyper realistic, as that would get freaky, and wander into a anime style I (personally) would dislike, but not too cartoony.

20 hours ago, justice magician said:

 

I was actually thinking when I first read it that it would work really well in a studio ghibli style.

I would be down for that. I think it fits the tone really well.

I also think the Rithmatist would make a interesting horror film, so maybe take everything I say with a grain of salt.

 

Edited January 9 by Pineap-spider