Unpopular Brandon Sanderson Opinions

[Frustration]

Just now, Dunkum said:

Kelsier was also definitely murdering people

I wouldn't call it murder.

Killing yes, but not murder.

The difference being that the noblemen 100% deserved what they got. Jezrien and the unconscious radiants Moash killed did not.

2 minutes ago, Aeoliae said:

He did kill the Lord ruler, or conspired against him, and saved Vin, who did save the Lord ruler

And that makes him responsible for what Vin did nearly a year later? 

[Aeoryi she/her]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I wouldn't call it murder.

Killing yes, but not murder.

The difference being that the noblemen 100% deserved what they got. Jezrien and the unconscious radiants Moash killed did not.

And that makes him responsible for what Vin did nearly a year later? 

No, that was Leras. It would've happened earlier if Vin hadn't been told by Kelsier to keep the earring since it could be a weapon

[Ravenclawjedi42]

24 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Please explain.

There are many (unpopular) reasons I believe this is true. Firstly, Moash is mainly hated for killing Teft, it seems that is the unforgivable thing. Yes he did the wrong thing in killing Teft, no he should not have done that. Moash killed several  other people, too, such as Jezrien and Elhokar. Kelsier on the other hand, killed so many people in his lifetime, much more than Moash. Moash, as Vyre, was being very strongly manipulated by Odium (it seemed that way to me, at least), while Kelsier was being lightly prodded by Ruin, but even so most of what I hate about Kelsier are the things he did voluntarily, many of which were the same things people hate about Moash. Also, Moash would likely accept death, accept that he needs to be dead, and even if he didn’t I don’t think he would make an organization where he gives the members power and excuses as long as they follow three loose easily interpretable tenets. 

 

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I wouldn't call it murder.

Killing yes, but not murder.

The difference being that the noblemen 100% deserved what they got. Jezrien and the unconscious radiants Moash killed did not.

And that makes him responsible for what Vin did nearly a year later? 

While I agree with you about Ruin, I extremely disagree about the killing/murder. While some of the noblemen probably did deserve it, the vast majority of the people Kelsier killed were brainwashed by the nobles, or unfortunately happened to be Allomancers and were forced to fight people like Kelsier, who was stealing what was not his. Even the Inquisitor was an unfortunate person being controlled by Ruin (in that situation, though, it may have been unavoidable.

 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

While I agree with you about Ruin, I extremely disagree about the killing/murder. While some of the noblemen probably did deserve it, the vast majority of the people Kelsier killed were brainwashed by the nobles, or unfortunately happened to be Allomancers and were forced to fight people like Kelsier Even the Inquisitor was an unfortunate person being controlled by Ruin (in that situation, though, it may have been unavoidable.

Well the list of people he killed is

1. That one noble in The Eleventh metal who was kidnapping and torturing people
2. That one family that drowned a skaa girl because she spilled their tea
3. A multi-time murderer and rapist
4. A Mistborn who enjoyed Skaa fights
5. An inquisitor who went out of his way to murder people(and no he was not controlled by Ruin yet)

 

Unless I missed something

[Scars of Hathsin he/him]

20 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

was being very strongly manipulated by Odium

This is not true at all, all Odium did was get rid of his emotions, nothing else, so no guilt, pain, wonder, happiness 

[Ravenclawjedi42]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Well the list of people he killed is

1. That one noble in The Eleventh metal who was kidnapping and torturing people
2. That one family that drowned a skaa girl because she spilled their tea
3. A multi-time murderer and rapist
4. A Mistborn who enjoyed Skaa fights
5. An inquisitor who went out of his way to murder people(and no he was not controlled by Ruin yet)

 

Unless I missed something

You missed many things. I forget the exact line, but I remember Marsh saying something in Final Empire about Kelsier killing roughly 11 people the past night (in which he stole from a house and tried to make tensions between the houses), which was one night out of many.

[Frustration]

Just now, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

You missed many things. I forget the exact line, but I remember Marsh saying something in Final Empire about Kelsier killing roughly 11 people the past night (in which he stole from a house and tried to make tensions between the houses), which was one night out of many.

The house guards yes, I did forget those.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

On 8/28/2023 at 5:51 AM, ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ said:

Welcome! Also d why y’all hate Oathbringer so much.

ikr? Oathbringer is my fave stormlight novel.

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

Well the list of people he killed is

1. That one noble in The Eleventh metal who was kidnapping and torturing people
2. That one family that drowned a skaa girl because she spilled their tea
3. A multi-time murderer and rapist
4. A Mistborn who enjoyed Skaa fights
5. An inquisitor who went out of his way to murder people(and no he was not controlled by Ruin yet)

 

Unless I missed something

Countless Hazekillers, Skaa guards, Skaa soldiers, minor nobles like Renoux of unknown reputation etc.

You can see the difference between Kel and Vin - he walked into Kredik Shaw killing any Skaa-guard on his path while Vin came, telling them to run away or join them, and one of them later saved Scadrial. Kelsier killed a lot of unknown people, many of them were Skaa, who were just trying to provide for their family in the best way they could. We have no idea if they deserve to die and you can't judge them like that.

I will not say whether he did the right thing or not, but he kill a loooot of people, much more than Moash, many of whom were just Skaa fighting for survival just like he was.

Edited August 30, 2023 by alder24

[Dunkum he/him]

9 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

ikr? Oathbringer is my fave stormlight novel.

I know the low parts of Oathbringer are very low. I'd argue more so than the two preceding books (actually I think each successive book has lower lows than the prior ones) and personally those were hard to get through at times. that said, for me they make the high points in the climax hit that much harder, so I tend to like it, but I'd guess that may not be a universal opinion.

[NameIess]

Tress of the Emerald Sea's ending was the worst part of the book, and Yumi’s ending was much better.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Nameless*

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

1 hour ago, Dunkum said:

I know the low parts of Oathbringer are very low. I'd argue more so than the two preceding books (actually I think each successive book has lower lows than the prior ones) and personally those were hard to get through at times. that said, for me they make the high points in the climax hit that much harder, so I tend to like it, but I'd guess that may not be a universal opinion.

that makes sense, but for me I guess the reason why I love it so much is that Dalinar's arc resonates with experiences I've had very well (though they were of a far different sort). Then there was the battle of Thaylen Field. How can that not be the best battle Brandon has ever done? I know, I know, the stuff in Words of Radiance, but sheer numbers and the amount of awesome moments? No other time can compete. And, besides... Renarin and Jasnah had a fun moment, so... that's just the cherry on top that makes it my favorite.

[Config2]

3 hours ago, Dunkum said:

I know the low parts of Oathbringer are very low. I'd argue more so than the two preceding books (actually I think each successive book has lower lows than the prior ones) and personally those were hard to get through at times. that said, for me they make the high points in the climax hit that much harder, so I tend to like it, but I'd guess that may not be a universal opinion.

What do you mean by "low points"? Like difficult to read, or poorly written, or boring?

The difficult to read thing I get. Both OB and ROW get pretty dark at times, especially for folks with personal connections to the various issues explored. 

OB is my favorite so far, though Navani's portions of ROW are my favorite individual passages in any Sanderson thing so far. Science is fun!

For unpopular opinions, I guess I really don't like TLM; it seemed super unfocused.

[Stormlit Shard he/him]

Unpopular Opinion- Jasnah is a boring character and I hope she disappears in SA5 

[Scars of Hathsin he/him]

3 hours ago, Stormlit Shard said:

Unpopular Opinion- Jasnah is a boring character and I hope she disappears in SA5 

How is she a boring character, she has so many secrets, and I want to know what they are, I am surprised she didn't bond a cryptic because of them.

[Dunkum he/him]

6 hours ago, Config2 said:

What do you mean by "low points"? Like difficult to read, or poorly written, or boring?

The difficult to read thing I get. Both OB and ROW get pretty dark at times, especially for folks with personal connections to the various issues explored. 

OB is my favorite so far, though Navani's portions of ROW are my favorite individual passages in any Sanderson thing so far. Science is fun!

For unpopular opinions, I guess I really don't like TLM; it seemed super unfocused.

I mean sort of low points for the characters, the points when they are at their darkest, most broken, most hopeless. the books tend to lose some of their energy there, and it makes it harder to keep going; at least for me.

Mind you I'm not criticizing that particular choice. like I said, for me I think the Climax of Oathbringer pays all of that off, but that doesn't make it any easier to read the parts where characters are beating themselves up

[Config2]

11 hours ago, Dunkum said:

I mean sort of low points for the characters, the points when they are at their darkest, most broken, most hopeless. the books tend to lose some of their energy there, and it makes it harder to keep going; at least for me.

Mind you I'm not criticizing that particular choice. like I said, for me I think the Climax of Oathbringer pays all of that off, but that doesn't make it any easier to read the parts where characters are beating themselves up

That makes sense: I also agree that the books seem to be having some of the characters dip further and further each time, which is intentional but uncomfortable for the reader some times. To be honest, I skip a lot of the heaviest parts on rereads, especially for Kaladin.

I also don't criticize that choice; generally after doing Stormlight stuff I reread Skyward stuff. Those are a little more straight action which is a nice break.

[Wayne's Pickle]

On 8/29/2023 at 4:18 PM, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

On 8/29/2023 at 3:53 PM, Frustration said:

Please explain.

There are many (unpopular) reasons I believe this is true. Firstly, Moash is mainly hated for killing Teft, it seems that is the unforgivable thing. Yes he did the wrong thing in killing Teft, no he should not have done that. Moash killed several  other people, too, such as Jezrien and Elhokar. Kelsier on the other hand, killed so many people in his lifetime, much more than Moash.

I'm not sure I agree with you in this assement of why Moash is disliked. I agree with you that Kelsier probably killed more people than Moash. But I don't think the reason most readers hate Moash has to do with how many people he killed (They might say that's the reason, but I think the strong gut reaction most people have to Moash runs deeper). Kelsier and Moash were both fighting against injust goverments/systems and I would say pre-Oathbringer, a lot of people probably felt Moash was pretty justified in what he was doing. 

The reason why Moash is so universally hated now, is because he started out trying to fight a tyrannical system, failed, then decided to join a different tyrannical system that was oppressing the same people he was ostensibly fighting for even more. Moash didn't just betray Kaladin and the Alethi. He betrayed his own ideals as well. You could argue that he was manipulated into it by Odium. But a lot of his decisions happened before he became 'Vyre', and intuitively it's hard to absolve Moash of responsibility because of all the poor decisions he made then. 

For all that Kelsier was a pretty brutal person, he stayed remarkably consistent with his goals and motivations, and even grew in his moral understandings throughout the books, as opposed to Moash who kept making morally worse decisions as time progressed. 

[Dunkum he/him]

2 hours ago, Wayne's Pickle said:

I'm not sure I agree with you in this assement of why Moash is disliked. I agree with you that Kelsier probably killed more people than Moash. But I don't think the reason most readers hate Moash has to do with how many people he killed (They might say that's the reason, but I think the strong gut reaction most people have to Moash runs deeper). Kelsier and Moash were both fighting against injust goverments/systems and I would say pre-Oathbringer, a lot of people probably felt Moash was pretty justified in what he was doing. 

The reason why Moash is so universally hated now, is because he started out trying to fight a tyrannical system, failed, then decided to join a different tyrannical system that was oppressing the same people he was ostensibly fighting for even more. Moash didn't just betray Kaladin and the Alethi. He betrayed his own ideals as well. You could argue that he was manipulated into it by Odium. But a lot of his decisions happened before he became 'Vyre', and intuitively it's hard to absolve Moash of responsibility because of all the poor decisions he made then. 

For all that Kelsier was a pretty brutal person, he stayed remarkably consistent with his goals and motivations, and even grew in his moral understandings throughout the books, as opposed to Moash who kept making morally worse decisions as time progressed. 

I Think this is a lot of it, but its also partly about perspective. Mistborn is primarily told from Vin's perspective where Kelsier rescued her from the streets and basically is the first person to show her any kind of concern in years. Plus he is fighting against precisely the kind of problems she was suffering from as a child. She sees him in an extremely positive light, and so we get the same. If Mistborn were written from Elend's perspective, we may have a very different view of Kelsier.

In Stormlight however nearly all of our interaction with Moash is from Kaladin's perspective, where Moash is his foil. their problems and the causes for their slavery parallel each other, don to having the same root cause; so at the same time that we see Kaladin fight through his darker instincts and come out better, Moash falls and lets his darkest instincts guide him. we can't help but compare him to Kaladin and he comes up wanting; for that matter, he is part of what drags Kaladin down in the first place, which isn't helping his case.

TLDR version: Kelsier lifts Vin up, and we see him from her perspective, while Moash drags Kaladin down, and we see Moash from Kaladin's perspective.

[Aeoryi she/her]

Wild cosmere theory: Odium is an avatar of autonomy and nightblood is actualy ruin.

 

 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Unpopular opinion (I think?): I didn't like TLM. 

Well, that's partially a lie- the first time I read it, I loved it to death. Then I reread it after reading all the other novels and was like "... no." I really don't like how the arcs were constructed, how one character's plot was the main focus instead of THE MAIN CHARACTERS. Instead of Wax and Wayne in the WAX AND WAYNE SERIES. *sigh* I loved their parts at the end, but like- It was focused on Marasi (don't get me wrong, I loved her parts, but it just doesn't feel like a Wax and Wayne novel). It feels untrue to their arcs from the first three and just kinda feels like a cosmere novel first and a Mistborn novel second. I want it the reverse. I want the Cosmere to be in it, but as a side show, not the main event. I do like main event Cosmere, but only if it's advertised as such and not a betrayal of how the other books in the series were constructed. Especially with how Era Two was executed as a small time cop kinda thing for most of it, steadily growing bigger and bigger. But... well... they took a steadily growing thing and blew it up into something bigger.

As I reflect on TLM, I like it even less, despite how much I loved a lot of it. As a full novel, I don't like it much. Though, I do love so much of it, including the ending. But like... *sigh*

[Mags she/they]

Unpopular RoW opinion:

Lirrin was a much more aggravating character to read about than Moash could ever dream of being. I literally hate him so much, probably on an irrational level.

(I know Moash murdered people but this has nothing to do with characters morals/ crimes, reading about Lirrin just filled me with a pure rage when Moash was just kinda . . . there).

Spoiler

and I know Lirrin and Kaladin make up at the end of the book but . . .

I don't know, what he said in that scene in the surgery room will haunt me

I actually don't even hate Moash, I find him kind of boring if I'm being honest. He is essential to RoW's plot though, so I don't think it's bad writing or anything, he's just not the kind of villain I love to hate.

[Guest Ψιτιsτηε Βεsτ]

On 9/12/2023 at 8:44 AM, Justice_Magician said:

Unpopular RoW opinion:

Lirrin was a much more aggravating character to read about than Moash could ever dream of being. I literally hate him so much, probably on an irrational level.

(I know Moash murdered people but this has nothing to do with characters morals/ crimes, reading about Lirrin just filled me with a pure rage when Moash was just kinda . . . there).

  Hide contents

and I know Lirrin and Kaladin make up at the end of the book but . . .

I don't know, what he said in that scene in the surgery room will haunt me

I actually don't even hate Moash, I find him kind of boring if I'm being honest. He is essential to RoW's plot though, so I don't think it's bad writing or anything, he's just not the kind of villain I love to hate.

Spoiler

What did he say in the surgery room?

 

[Mags she/they]

On 11/4/2023 at 2:10 PM, ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ said:

  Reveal hidden contents

What did he say in the surgery room?

 

Spoiler

When Kaladin killed the singer soldier in defense of Teft, and Lirrin called him a murderer . . . like dang man are you an idiot?

That was in defense of an innocent person. He's so blinded by what he wants Kaladin to be that he completely disregards Kal as a person and immediately sees him as some kind of monster. Just because Kal has become something other than what Lirrin wanted. Kal is just protecting his friends and doing the best he can in a terrible situation. 

Not only that but I hate Lirrins whole philosophy of "Fighting back will only make things worse, be satisfied with subservience," it makes me so mad. He just sits there and watches his people become mistreated and enslaved and does nothing because he thinks 'Oh, less people will suffer this way.' That is so selfish in my opinion. I understand where he's coming from, but as an educated man with a vital role in society (a surgeon) he kinda gets the cushier lifestyle when it comes to being enslaved. I doubt he truly understands how awful not having rights or freedom is. To say 'fighting back is bad,' is ignorant and selfish of him.

He's a cowardly hypocrite and the fact that he even has the nerve to call his son (a man who has seen more death and pain and sorrow then he can possibly imagine) a monster is so unjustified it makes my blood boil.

(sorry lol that was quite a rant, he just angers me to no end, and I think that's really good writing on Brandos part)

 

[trav]

He engages too much with the community and answers too many questions.
At first this was what I really like about him. After several years I came to hate it.

I prefer when people have to use their imagination instead of consulting the author.