The Chat Thread

[Voidus]

Hello all,

I've been discussing something with the other AV mods and I think we're at the point that we should probably float the idea with the wider community. Recently the Alleyverse has become a lot more complicated of a place, there are a lot of characters in this era. Enough that it's going to get really awkward to remember them all and where they are at a given time especially given characters ability to jump from thread to thread rapidly.

So, I've been proposing the creation of the Alley-multiverse, where we expand out from the existing setting into other dimensions, universes, etc. Basically anywhere that actually poses a difficulty in travelling to and fro rather than just stepping into a perpendicularity and instantly appearing where you need to be.

This lets us physically separate settings so that each one can be a little smaller and more self contained than the current setup, and also establish multiple settings, allow for different power balances, etc.

So, thoughts?

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

I dunno... if I could bring the world my story is set in to the Alleyverse, that would be fun.

[old man moomba he/him]

IMO, we could create a few other planets with large cities on them and not cram everything on to one planet.

Or, you know, toss a couple other universes in there as well. But that seems like it would be more complicated, not less. Especially if you add other magic systems.

Expanding on the "other cities" idea, We really should put more Alleyverse locations on the other planets. In the Westlands alone, there are 5 or 6 large cities with tons of intresting RP opportunities.

[Voidus]

1 hour ago, Dr. Dapper said:

IMO, we could create a few other planets with large cities on them and not cram everything on to one planet.

Or, you know, toss a couple other universes in there as well. But that seems like it would be more complicated, not less. Especially if you add other magic systems.

Expanding on the "other cities" idea, We really should put more Alleyverse locations on the other planets. In the Westlands alone, there are 5 or 6 large cities with tons of intresting RP opportunities.

The problem as I see it would be that characters can worldhop with impunity, so setting things on different planets has a minimal impact on the flow of characters and quests between locations.

Adding more universes would add an additional overarching level of complexity, but each universe in itself would be less complex as things spread out across multiple locations. So a new character entering into one location can just learn about that location and delay the further complexities until later.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

I don't understand... How does having multiple universes help with the problem of remembering where all the characters are?

[MacThorstenson he/him]

5 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I don't understand... How does having multiple universes help with the problem of remembering where all the characters are?

The idea would be that each universe has a lower number of total characters, less concurrent plots, and that would be simpler for more people to join and get invested in a plot. 

There is a large issue in trying to hold a coherent RP with a ton of characters. It’s not easily accessible for new characters. 

If you look at the tent thread, the amount of stuff/background that people need to understand is a lot. To understand what’s going on in that plot, a person needs to understand hellbent, who’s character ark and history is humongous, and tens, who is also an old complicated character. 

Something like the exploring the other side of the world thread, on the other hand, is a whole lot more accessible. There is no background beyond reading the thread, no extensive character arks needed to understand stuff. 

The idea would be that having a series of unique settings would allow people to jump in, and keep things from being too complicated. 

[xinoehp512 he/him]

43 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

Something like the exploring the other side of the world thread, on the other hand, is a whole lot more accessible. There is no background beyond reading the thread, no extensive character arks needed to understand stuff. 

 

Why don't we just keep doing that, then? There's plenty of space on the other side of the world.

[old man moomba he/him]

Just now, xinoehp512 said:

Why don't we just keep doing that, then? There's plenty of space on the other side of the world.

Or on other planets. 

[MacThorstenson he/him]

15 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Why don't we just keep doing that, then? There's plenty of space on the other side of the world.

The issue is that people aren’t stuck over there. It’s the same issue with having things on different the planets. You can easily or quickly move between planets, or other parts of the world, via workshopping. 

If people can easily move from setting to setting, it all becomes part of one mega super complex plot, which defeats the purpose of having split things up in the first place. 

[xinoehp512 he/him]

What if a plot starts up in a location and I don't have a character there?

[MacThorstenson he/him]

2 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

What if a plot starts up in a location and I don't have a character there?

What do you mean?

[xinoehp512 he/him]

What do you mean when you say that people should not be able to move easily from setting to setting? What sort of limitations would that apply?

[MacThorstenson he/him]

23 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

What do you mean when you say that people should not be able to move easily from setting to setting? What sort of limitations would that apply?

Again I will refer to the exploring the other side of the world plot. 

With that setting, characters don’t transition between the other side of the world plot and the rest of the alleyverse often. Whether it’s because they can’t or they don’t want to, this is the kind of self contained ness that we want to introduce. 

It’s still feasible for people to move from universe to universe, but it’s not easy. 

Every new location that starts up will allow people to move in, whether by allowing them to create new characters, or moving existing ones, but people won’t be able to switch a character from location to location over the course of a single meeting. 

This would hopefully limit the complexity of different plots. 

[Voidus]

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

What do you mean when you say that people should not be able to move easily from setting to setting? What sort of limitations would that apply?

So the first idea that occurred to me was to add some time slippage to multiverse travel, so it's still possible and characters who travel from the Alleyverse to the other verse all arrive in chronological order, but if you then try to travel back to the Alleyverse you're not going to arrive there for a few months / years after you initially left.

We have tried a few times to start plots on other planets but basically all that happened was that people just instantly worldhopped there to participate in the plot then worldhopped back when needed to the Alleyplanet.

[I think I am here. he/him]

I like the time slippage idea as a limit. But what’s stopping us from adding large locations in the Alleyverse where time slippage occurs, than making new universes? If we added some more locations in the same universe, but gave it that same limit (that time slippage occurs) as a limit for movement, wouldn’t that have the same effect?

[Voidus]

5 minutes ago, I think I am here. said:

I like the time slippage idea as a limit. But what’s stopping us from adding large locations in the Alleyverse where time slippage occurs, than making new universes? If we added some more locations in the same universe, but gave it that same limit (that time slippage occurs) as a limit for movement, wouldn’t that have the same effect?

It would, doesn't have to be alternate universes, anything which discourages hopping to other settings would work. But one of the other ideas was that this would allow us to establish some pretty varied settings, so if someone wanted to play in a more traditional medieval fantasy world they could, or a more modern-day type setting, etc. and I think that works a little better with multiple universes, but I'm not super attached to that idea if we can get the same benefit from something else.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Not only would time barriers prevent exploration, but distance and physical barriers would as well. The North Sea is a quarter of the way around the world from the Alleylands, and it is surrounded by a barrier of nigh impossible mountains with a few passes.

[FatherTiempo he/him]

Has anyone thought to make a annotated history of the alleyverse?

[Voidus]

8 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Not only would time barriers prevent exploration, but distance and physical barriers would as well. The North Sea is a quarter of the way around the world from the Alleylands, and it is surrounded by a barrier of nigh impossible mountains with a few passes.

But people can always just decide to Aon Tia over there in an instant. Distance is barely an impediment at all in a world where people regularly transport instantly from one world to another.
 

6 minutes ago, FatherTiempo said:

Has anyone thought to make a annotated history of the alleyverse?

We have a wiki for that.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

1 hour ago, Voidus said:

But people can always just decide to Aon Tia over there in an instant. Distance is barely an impediment at all in a world where people regularly transport instantly from one world to another.

See, that's not necessarily true. People have been advocating for the reduction in use of Tia cards, and I think I have a idea on what that would entail, along with the in-world explanation for why it exists.

Let's start with the use of Aons on the Alleyplanet. Aons are powered through the Dor, which would normally exist only on Sel, so imagine there's some sort of Dor resevoir that's fed from the main source. It fills up steadily, but slowly. This explains why it was possible for people to drain the Dor enough that the Worldspike barrier failed.

 Now, Aon Tia cards aren't actually cards; they're unsealed metalminds. The power of the card not only gives the user the power to activate Aons, but also provides the raw power needed to do so. This allows it to work anywhere, not just where you have access to the Dor. However, you need a lot of power to transport someone from one place to another. In addition, the formulas required are incredibly complex, and the only people who really know how to do it live on the Alleyplanet. Making a lot of Aon Tia cards could drain the Dor faster than it could be replenished, especially when the demand for them increases. This could lead to another catastrophic barrier failure.

In addition, the fragile nature of Alleyplanet space and time means that every activation of a Tia card further decays the stability of space and time, especially as the distances involved increase.

For these two reasons, the powers that be have implemented restrictions on the production and use of Tia cards on the planet surface.

How this is implemented out-of-character is simple; we tie Aon Tia cards to the monetary system. Nohadon invented Tia cards in the first place, after all. If we make them expensive, it increases incentive to find other means of transport while not removing them entirely.

 

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

I think multiple universes could work. When I first read that i didn't understand how it would simplify,but I think I caught the vision now. We would need them to be very clearly marked somehow..... Or it will be a nightmare.... 

[MacThorstenson he/him]

8 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

I think multiple universes could work. When I first read that i didn't understand how it would simplify,but I think I caught the vision now. We would need them to be very clearly marked somehow..... Or it will be a nightmare.... 

We are also reworking the tagging system right now, so that it would be convenient and actually useful. 

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

14 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

We are also reworking the tagging system right now, so that it would be convenient and actually useful. 

You guys really are the best!

[Voidus]

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

See, that's not necessarily true. People have been advocating for the reduction in use of Tia cards, and I think I have a idea on what that would entail, along with the in-world explanation for why it exists.

Let's start with the use of Aons on the Alleyplanet. Aons are powered through the Dor, which would normally exist only on Sel, so imagine there's some sort of Dor resevoir that's fed from the main source. It fills up steadily, but slowly. This explains why it was possible for people to drain the Dor enough that the Worldspike barrier failed.

 Now, Aon Tia cards aren't actually cards; they're unsealed metalminds. The power of the card not only gives the user the power to activate Aons, but also provides the raw power needed to do so. This allows it to work anywhere, not just where you have access to the Dor. However, you need a lot of power to transport someone from one place to another. In addition, the formulas required are incredibly complex, and the only people who really know how to do it live on the Alleyplanet. Making a lot of Aon Tia cards could drain the Dor faster than it could be replenished, especially when the demand for them increases. This could lead to another catastrophic barrier failure.

In addition, the fragile nature of Alleyplanet space and time means that every activation of a Tia card further decays the stability of space and time, especially as the distances involved increase.

For these two reasons, the powers that be have implemented restrictions on the production and use of Tia cards on the planet surface.

How this is implemented out-of-character is simple; we tie Aon Tia cards to the monetary system. Nohadon invented Tia cards in the first place, after all. If we make them expensive, it increases incentive to find other means of transport while not removing them entirely.

 

There were dozens of Dor users being Nicrobursted and making deliberately inefficient Aonic equations during an Alleystorm to bring down the barrier. I don't think we could rationalize any level of Tia cards coming close to that. Additionally economic restrictions aren't likely to make a difference in a world where everyone has functionally infinite money given that we're not tracking it

That being said I'm really not a fan of Tia cards being as popularized as they are, it removes a lot of RP opportunities and introduces a little too much handwaving for my liking. Even barring that though, the CR can be used for local travel without much difficulty.

[+Sorana she/her]

In the end, the aim is, that we leave characters longer at the same location/ thread/ plot line, to remove a bit the chaos of characters jumping around the whole time.

I am definitly in favour, and I like the idea of more locations like the other side of the world, as you then have a chance to get to know the other characters better and really rp with them, but we also need someone to look after these locations, do the worldbuilding and lead the plot along.

 

It might make it difficult for locations like the tavern, without a real plot and lots of rp going on.

And there is also the issue, that you never know if the thread you're participating in will die or not, or if the pace set there fits you. The moment we make it harder to move a character around, we also make it harder for someone to switch to another thread if the first one doesn't fit/ work for you.