Long Game 43: Under the Banner of Adonalsium

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Now I can hold that hostage over the world!  Muhahaha!  Actually, since I'm new (unless I'm Alv), I'll tell the win con if I know it and whether I was assigned it from the start to anyone who PMs me.

Yeah, that was why it was a tough choice whether to restart or not for me.

Devotary, they reset everytime someone joins.

Edited March 16, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer
ninjad

[Steeldancer he/him]

In other news, I'm still not Odium. Apparently it was always Survival that would be released 

[Stick. she/her]

7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Drought makes a good point about World docs, though since I don't believe they reset every day, it seems that they would be even less secure than a PM. Unless they are anonymous and you don't have to use the same color every time you visit.

I'm pretty sure they won't be anonymous, and what colours we pick won't matter.

7 minutes ago, TheYoungPyromancer said:

Devotary, they reset everytime someone joins.

Or joins. They basically change every cycle unless nobody leaves/joins the shardworld, if I understand it right.

[DeTess she/her]

Yeah, I'm not opposed to lots of PM's, but some kind of formalized PM-circle probably won't be of much help. It's true that many people are more talkative and open in PM's (and PM's tend to switch my read of someone to village if it's quite active unless I actively keep myself wary and paranoid). However, this is only true if they pick the people to talk with themselves. If it's something that was forced on you by your position in the PM-circle, its probably wouldn't be nearly as conductive for talking. It's also worth noting that PM's (in my experience) are a completely impartial tool. They can help villagers hold others accountable, but it also gives elims another tool for info gathering and manipulation that's harder for the village to track.

@Seonid, can you tell us how (un)anonymous world Docs are? Is someone's name automatically added on entering, or do they only have to identify themselves when they start to talk, allowing for Lurking? Or are they completely anonymous?

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

8 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Or joins. They basically change every cycle unless nobody leaves/joins the shardworld, if I understand it right.

Ah yes. I now see that rule clarification on page 3 of the signup thread. Thank you for noticing that _Stick_. That does make PMs less valuable.

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

Analysis (very much a work in progress):

Investiture types:

-Ambition: Action transfer, essentially. Useful to 17S letting a researcher potentially steal 2 charges of Investiture in one night if the village needs a Shard released. Useful to Hoid/Khriss by letting them convert/steal Investiture/use any Shardic powers simultaneously. Useful to AC/SoH letting them nearly guarantee the release of a specific Shard.

Autonomy: Role scanning. VERY useful to 17S allowing us to spot kill actions/conversions/use of Shardic power by AC/SoH. Useful to Elim teams by letting them observe potential Shardic use by villagers.

Cultivation: PMs are great, but ideally I’d like this Shard out of containment.

Devotion: Vote manip doesn’t seem terribly powerful this game, but either team could use it to swing a lynch. If you do take this Investiture, please use it wisely.

Dominion (redirect/roleblock immunity): Seems kinda pointless unless you’re doing something else along with it. Only take this if you’re planning to release the Shard, or you’re taking a very important action. I don’t see this being used much by 17S, but the Elims may use it to avoid an important action being diverted.

Endowment (gift action to someone else): Kinda weird. Don’t really see much use for it within 17S, since you could unwittingly be giving Elims an extra action, which would be bad. Whereas AC/SoH usage seems likely, giving teammates extra actions so they can kill/steal Investiture.

Honor: Seems like a mostly generic protect ability. 17S should use wisely to prevent kills on fellow Sharders and stay out of the way of kills on suspects, while AC/SoH will likely just use it to defend themselves. Protect others, please, 17th Sharders. If you want to save yourself, use Preservation.

Odium: I actually suggest that 17S jump on Odium N1. It’ll hopefully keep it out of Elim hands, and it’ll stop them from using the kill action, which is kinda insane (basically, both Elim teams would probably have a kill every other cycle). We just have to make sure Odium comes out after Cultivation, and that the person who gets it isn’t a troll/Eliminator. Otherwise things will go south quickly.

Preservation: Standard extra life. This is a good Shard and a good charge of Investiture. I suggest that 17S members up for lynch not use it, just so we can confirm you as good (of course, if you’re being lynched by a hammer of suspicious origin saving yourself is probably OK). Potentially useful to Shades in the dead doc. 17S use to defend yourself from Night kills, AC/SoH will likely use it to protect themselves from lynches. Which is annoying, but also something we can’t do much about.

Ruin: A roleblock is...interesting. 17S will have to be very careful about who we use this on, as we could easily end up blocking a Sharder sending in an important action. Meanwhile I could see AC/SoH wreaking havoc with this. I’d support releasing this Shard if its Shardic ability wasn’t so terrible.

Survival: No Investiture for you! Unless the person holding it is kind enough to return it to containment.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Fifth Scholar
Hit send before I was done

[Stick. she/her]

9 minutes ago, randuir said:

@Seonid, can you tell us how (un)anonymous world Docs are? Is someone's name automatically added on entering, or do they only have to identify themselves when they start to talk, allowing for Lurking? Or are they completely anonymous?

Seonid said this earlier:

Quote

Autonomy's aspects give them full access to the doc of any planet they are invested in - autonomy can talk anonymously in the doc as if they were there. All players in a Shardworld doc will be listed by the GM in the header, but autonomy will be listed by the name of their aspect. (If autonomy is present on the world as well as having an aspect, both the aspect and the player will be posted)

 

[Elbereth she/her]

Ah, apologies - meant to add RP to the bottom of my last post and didn't. Before I do so, Drought - I don't recall world PMs as being anywhere near as useful as 2-person PMs, in the two (?) games I've GMed with them. Though the worlds being docs could help with that. 

And agreed with Stick about not revealing anything we're not supposed to know. Hoid/Khriss talking about the strategies they thought of would be fine, I expect, but that's about it.

@TheYoungPyromancer, maybe run it by Seonid whether you should say Survival's wincon, first. 

@Devotary of Spontaneity, I agree that PMs are useful, certainly, but I don't think that everyone being able to PM is worth the ammount of coordination necessary. Those who want to PM will be able to. (Basically, agreed with Randuir. And ninja'd by him.)

---

Elaria stared at the gardener for a second, working out the details of the plan in her head. As she opened her mouth to speak, something happened. Light, and burning, and something her mortal mind wasn't meant to handle - the spiritual realm? a bit of her thought, staying scientific despite whatever was happening. 

She felt herself being examined, and... frowned at? 

How very bothersome, a voice said. 

Then the world twisted, and she was lying in the grass again. 

She sat up, trying to stop her head from spinning. 

"What."

 

[DeTess she/her]

Ah, thanks for the clarification @_Stick_.

@Drake Marshall, where you Hoid or Khrissala in the last time-line? I believe most people where working under the assumption that Hoid and Khriss only had a couple of  conversions, and would have to try and win the game the usual way (I know I was), so you refuting this by stating that there probably wouldn't be a lot of kills because it's a conversion game strikes me as odd.  I know your past alignment is no indication of your current one, I just want to know whether I should be giving myself a cookie for spotting this or not.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

27 minutes ago, randuir said:

Ah, thanks for the clarification @_Stick_.

@Drake Marshall, where you Hoid or Khrissala in the last time-line? I believe most people where working under the assumption that Hoid and Khriss only had a couple of  conversions, and would have to try and win the game the usual way (I know I was), so you refuting this by stating that there probably wouldn't be a lot of kills because it's a conversion game strikes me as odd.  I know your past alignment is no indication of your current one, I just want to know whether I should be giving myself a cookie for spotting this or not.

That remark was not alignment indicative for quite the reasons you stated, but I suppose it was telling to be sure.

Hoid/Khriss do have only a couple of conversions, that is very much correct. But also remember that Hoid can't take any attack actions. And while getting a team mate access to a kill power is doable, it complicates things when you have to find a way to protect them from being subsumed by the intent of one of the nastier shards like Odium or Ruin.

Yes, I will own up to it. I was Hoid last game. You should definitely have a cookie* for that; it was well spotted.

I am sad to lose Hoid, but I think rerolling to let Elbereth participate was in the best interest of the game as a whole. Also, if your guess is any evidence, I wouldn't have lasted very long as Hoid.

I may believe the reroll was the right decision, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to hunt down my supplanter with extreme prejudice 

*disclaimer

Edited March 16, 2018 by Drake Marshall
more edits; I instead of It

[Droughtbringer]

@Seonid What is the rule for talking about things we learned last game based off of abilities that we had? Such as knowing Hoid Conversions/Survival's starting intent? Should we keep that type of info to ourselves or are we good to give it out?

1 hour ago, TheYoungPyromancer said:

Does everyone want to reveal what they were last time?  I actually WAS Survival, which makes me really sad that we restarted.

Called it!

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

2 minutes ago, Droughtbringer said:

@Seonid What is the rule for talking about things we learned last game based off of abilities that we had? Such as knowing Hoid Conversions/Survival's starting intent? Should we keep that type of info to ourselves or are we good to give it out?

To clarify, I actually only ever had a ballpark estimate for the number of conversions Hoid could field. I don't know the exact number; Seonid said he was still running simulations for balance.

[Stick. she/her]

Hm. I wouldn't be surprised if Seonid decided not to change Survival's vessel at all due to Pyromamcer already knowing about its win con...Though It's probably likely that he has changed it perhaps.

[Seonid he/him]

23 minutes ago, Droughtbringer said:

@Seonid What is the rule for talking about things we learned last game based off of abilities that we had? Such as knowing Hoid Conversions/Survival's starting intent? Should we keep that type of info to ourselves or are we good to give it out?

Called it!

Well, we as GMs weren't going to reveal the original distribution and stuff until after the game was over, to try and avoid cluttering up analysis and stuff.

So, while I'm fine with you all talking about it, I'm not going to confirm anything.

Except for # of conversions, because the only reason I hadn't revealed it was because I missed that I hadn't set the number yet. Both conversion teams get 2 conversions this game.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

So yeah, if you PM me, I'll tell you all about Survival.

[Megasif he/him]

Not much to add atm. Also I will be very busy this weekend.

I wonder if stick is actually joking lol.

Jondesu, yes we need to rethink any reads we had.

DoS (devotary) and everyone else, keeping PMs to a minimum will be a good idea. We also have planet docs. We can be be more talkative in PMs but using that same energy in the thread will help the village more in the long run imo. And not to reveal our intentions in PMs to others unless we're 90+% confident of their alignment (of a villager that is)

[MonsterMetroid]

2 conversions huh... with so few I wouldnt necessarily say that hoid and khriss are guaranteed to convert someone tonight and might instead try to go after shards liekely to be taken tonight. My thought behind this is that waiting for one or several lynches will help their coverts to avoid being lynched (cause they dont exist) and allows for a quicker swing as things get closer. 

Now I'm not saying they won't do it tonight... I am just saying that I think it would be foolish to make assumptions based off of the fact taht they are we only two converts.

-----

Willie looked up from his grass cutting for a second "Whit. Whit dae ye mean whit?  Dae ye want me tae call ye 'What'?" Willie looked at Elaria (@Elbereth ) with a suspicious narrowing of eyes "Ye think tae mak' me a butt o' a joke don't ye?" at this Willie returned to cutting the grass he was mostly done now.

"Anyways tis bin a buzz tae rush tae yer hulp 'n' cut this grass twa times, bit ah hae other hings tae dae than blether tae a bampot" Willie looked up at the researcher again "If yi''ll need anythin' ye better say sae afore ah finish again a've git tae wash containment o' th' filth" Willie said to her, He wasn't a bad man and wanted to help if she needed it for real but if she was wasting his time he had to clean up containment, He got a message from management that it had a huge mess because of a shard escaping, Storming things no good could come from having so many in one place Willie thought.

[Stick. she/her]

43 minutes ago, MonsterMetroid said:

 

2 conversions huh... with so few I wouldnt necessarily say that hoid and khriss are guaranteed to convert someone tonight and might instead try to go after shards liekely to be taken tonight. My thought behind this is that waiting for one or several lynches will help their coverts to avoid being lynched (cause they dont exist) and allows for a quicker swing as things get closer. 

 

Yeah, if I were Hoid/Khriss I probably wouldn't convert anybody right now. I'd wait a few turns in order to narrow down the best possible options for conversions. Like, a villager that is least likely to get lynched anytime soon, somebody who has an influence over the village, or somebody who I suspect to hold a useful shard or smt. So converting so early like Night 1 wouldn't be the best choice with a limited conversion number.

We'll probably have a Shard out of containment next turn...3 is the number of charges that need to be stolen in order for the Shard to get released, iirc?

[MonsterMetroid]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

We'll probably have a Shard out of containment next turn...3 is the number of charges that need to be stolen in order for the Shard to get released, iirc?

Yup it is three and remember if someone is holding a shard they can't be converted so they wont be targeting people they assume have a shard (unless they want to confirm it i guess...)

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

They just target the same person... Both times...

EDIT: Hey! I realized that Khriss can FINALLY get back to Taladain in this game!

Edited March 16, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer

[MonsterMetroid]

18 minutes ago, TheYoungPyromancer said:

EDIT: Hey! I realized that Khriss can FINALLY get back to Taladain in this game!

that should be khriss's special rule Hoid cant kill and Khriss cant return home haha

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

For anyone who doesn't know what we are talking about, read the Taladain Arcanium Unbounded entry.

Kelsier was getting impatient.  He had just gotten Survival and-  What was he thinking?  He felt a ... Presence leave him.  Kelsier waited at the clothing shop.  If this was going to take this long, he was going to burn Cadmium. @Hemalurgic Headshot

Edited March 16, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer

[Steeldancer he/him]

Steel stepped out of the Oathgate, wall of shining light dimming around him. Suddenly, he tensed up, and instinctively burned speed-steel. The world slowed down around him, and he saw his instincts of danger were correct- although what it was he had no idea. 
It seemed that a man in lightning was running around knocking out radiants, far faster than Steel knew was possible. How could he turn and weave so effectively? Steel could only run that fast when running in a straight line with Abrasion, and abrasion did not allow for such tight turns. 
What was he doing, sitting here thinking? Steel charged, summoning his shardblade. He raised it at the man, but the man was gone before he could bring the blade down. Then, he was hit in the side, throwing him to the ground. Steel groaned, and Phyl turned into a shield to protect him. 

"There you are! I've been looking for you," said the man. He was tall, brownish hair, and wore a shirt with a red lightning bolt on it. Odd. "I had been looking among the other edgedancers to find you, but they refused to tell me where you were. I need you to do me a favor, especially in light of the recent timeline shift."

"What? Timeline shift?" Steel asked in utter confusion. Who was this man? How did he have such strange abilities? Steel had never seen modes of investiture like that before. His abilities were supposed to make him the fastest in the Cosmere. 

"Fear not, I will explain all. Please follow me."

The man turned, but then looked back. Steel wasn't about to follow. He had Radiants to heal. 
"Look," sighed the man. "You aren't as fast as me. Either you follow me, or I kill all the radiants I deliberately only disabled. They'll be on their feet in a few minutes without your help. They have stormlight after all." 
Steel still didn't follow. 

"You made me do this." In a bolt of lightning, faster than even Steel could process, the man had picked up a radiant, and shoved a vibrating hand near her chest. 
"Last chance. Follow me, or she dies."
Finally, Steel relented. "Fine, I'll go. Don't kill her, please." The man smirked, and bolted into Urithiru, evidently heading down the mountain the backdoor way. 
Steel took a glance at the people around him, who were getting up and breathing in stormlight to heal themselves. He looked at the girl the man had threatened, evidently a Windrunner from the color of her shardblade. 
"Will you be all right?" She asked.
"Of course I will. But send someone after me if you don't receive a message in the next 3 days. Ok, I should go." And off Steel went, in the direction of the passageway into the heart of Urithiru. 

[Droughtbringer]

I've been watching the thread, but I haven't had much to say so far. No great ideas, no reads on anyone, or anything much, currently. We haven't come up with much for what we should be talking about, and I am just generally slightly confused.

I'm going to suggest that everyone starts doing reads, as they will be very useful for looking back at the game, and getting some initial impressions. I have something in 10 minutes so I won't be able to do any right now, but I will try to get some up before the cycle ends.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

The problem is, normally we would get reads while discussing general strategy, but all our roles reset, so we have nearly nothing to go on.

I did notice one thing though.

5 hours ago, Magestar said:

Fair.  I see it was a bad idea now.

People do tend to reveal more and be more open in PMs, if they ever talk.  But I'm not sure how useful it will be in this scenario, especially with conversions.

Complete turnaround of opinions.  That makes me think someone changed factions...