[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[rjl]

2 hours ago, vividox said:

Totally not book related, but how is it possible to read this book in 7.5 hours? Haha. I must be a super slow reader, or maybe I just like time to digest, but I'm doing well if I can cover 400 pages in that amount of time. 

7.5 hours for this book is around 4 times the "average adult" reading speed.

[lastofus]

2 hours ago, vividox said:

Totally not book related, but how is it possible to read this book in 7.5 hours? Haha. I must be a super slow reader, or maybe I just like time to digest, but I'm doing well if I can cover 400 pages in that amount of time. 

One third of the book was already published on Tor.com. I got the book at 9:30 AM and finished it at around 9 PM

[ZenBossanova]

So I guess Eshonai really is dead. 

I had my hopes. 

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

So I finished my first reread. My first full read, technically, since the first time I'd skipped the chapters that I'd already read on Tor.

I was reminded of some of the mysteries and Significant Things discussed during the Tor months:

-There was a debate about Dalinar's vision of  the Champion in the first chapter, whether the familiarity he saw in its eyes meant he recognized the person, or the feeling of the Thrill. Given who the champion turned out to be, I think the answer to that one is "yes".

-May Aladar is not, in fact, Vivenna, a Radiant, a voidbringer, a love interest, or anyone of note at all so far.

-Fill-in-the-blank-here is not Vivenna, either.

-Renarin's jaw dropping when Dalinar described the champion. No explanation for that. I guess he'd seen it in a vision?

-No explanation for why only Renarin and Shallan could sense Re-Shephir, either. People thought it was their shared surge, but I'm still not quite sure if Renarin actually has regular Illumination. The fact that he used light to make the thunderclast "go" in the battle of Thaylen City- during the Everstorm- makes me suspect he has Voidbinding Illumination.

-Shallan's freaky pictures that Pattern didn't see her draw? That got dropped, too.

-The toilet, as far as we know, was a perfectly safe place for the Honorblade.

-That bit in the epigraphs that had everyone confused, the part about hanging between realms and fates worst than death, presumably refers to the climax.

 

Some things I picked up on my second read:

-More evidence is that Tashi = Ishar: Tashi is called "the binder of the world". Ishar is called "the binder of gods".

-That picture of Shalash in the endpapers is the one Pom destroyed, isn't it?

-Drehy and Skar got away from Kholinar, but there's nothing about Shallan's people.

-There's a storming Herald involved in the Diagram. Like, the first time around I only noticed that she was the one who said the end was nigh, but on second read she was the one who wrote an essay for Mr. T slandering Dalinar. Battah's a Diagramist.

-I hated the love triangle just as much the second time around. I think it was very poorly written.

-Okay, on reread, I don't think Szeth is walking around in white robes anymore. He's probably dressed as a Skybreaker, in a police uniform. Which brings up a different problem: Dalinar and Lift had met Szet before, but how did Jasnah know that the weird Shin guy at Thaylen Field was "the storming Assassin-in-White"?

 

[StormingTexan he/him]

1 hour ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Okay, on reread, I don't think Szeth is walking around in white robes anymore. He's probably dressed as a Skybreaker, in a police uniform. Which brings up a different problem: Dalinar and Lift had met Szet before, but how did Jasnah know that the weird Shin guy at Thaylen Field was "the storming Assassin-in-White"?

 

That’s a good question but she did say “apparently the storming Assassin in White” which makes me think someone told her who he was off screen. 

Man you reminded me of all the unanswered questions from part one I forgot about..

[MistbornAlpaca he/him]

Part 1 and 2 were great, if a little slow, although I loved the Bridge 4 POV's. Part 3 was the end I was expecting for the whole book, and it was amazing to get it half-way through. Part 4 was a little slow for Shallan, Kaladin, and the rest of the crew in Shadesmar, but it was great to see the Cognitive Realm on Roshar. Finally Part 5, just wow! It was amazing! The Brandon Avalanche at its best. The build-up to the final battle in Thaylena, and the moment where Dalinar refused to give Odium his pain was amazing! The end of this book was the end I was expecting for maybe book 5, but book 4 at the earliest, so there are so many places this could go right now, and I'm excited to see what comes next!

[Mulk he/him]

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

That’s a good question but she did say “apparently the storming Assassin in White” which makes me think someone told her who he was off screen. 

Man you reminded me of all the unanswered questions from part one I forgot about..

She knows who he is - she saw him in the company of her...ah..employee, who had owned him prior to selling him to the Parshendi.

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

Oh, that's right. Thanks, @Mulk.

[Fulminato he/him]

1 hour ago, Mulk said:

She knows who he is - she saw him in the company of her...ah..employee, who had owned him prior to selling him to the Parshendi.

Liss sell the shin before meet jasnah. 

Quote

“That new servant of yours outside,” Jasnah said. “Didn’t you say you wanted to show him off for me?”
“Talak?” Liss said, glancing at the Veden man. “Oh, you mean that other one. No, Brightness, I sold that one to a slaver a few weeks ago.” Liss grimaced.
“Really? I thought you said he was the best servant you’d ever had.”

but she see the assassin in the moment of the death of her father

Quote

Jasnah screamed, dashing through the room to the broken balcony, falling to her knees at the edge. Wind tugged locks of hair loose from her bun as she watched two men fall.
Her father, and the Shin man in white from the feast.
The Shin man glowed with a white light. He fell onto the wall. He hit it, rolling, then came to a stop. He stood up, somehow remaining on the outer palace wall and not falling. It defied reason.
He turned, then stalked toward her father.

 

[Mulk he/him]

true - I had the order wrong.  I still think she knew who he was.

[kari-no-sugata]

6 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

-That picture of Shalash in the endpapers is the one Pom destroyed, isn't it?

Should be.

6 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

-Drehy and Skar got away from Kholinar, but there's nothing about Shallan's people.

They are mentioned:

Quote

They gave Kaladin a pair of sharp salutes. Drehy had old cuts on his face and Skar looked like he hadn’t slept in weeks. They’d had to cover their foreheads in ash to hide their tattoos, an act that wouldn’t have worked in simpler times. It basically marked them as runaway slaves.

Syl let out a laugh of pure delight, zipping over to them—and from the way they reacted, it seemed she’d let them see her. Behind them, Shallan’s three servants emerged from their cloaks. Kaladin didn’t know the other people, but one of them would be the merchant they’d found—a man who still possessed a spanreed.

 

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

Well then, I take that back. Good to know.

[Cephandrius Everstorm]

On 2017-11-26 at 6:34 AM, vividox said:

Oh my God, and I forgot to mention. Adolin and Maya was AWESOME. When he summoned her at just seven heartbeats... holy cow that was awesome. He's healing his Shardblade!

I believe it was 8 heartbeats, but nonetheless awesome! I remember coming to the end of Words of Radiance and being disappointed that everyone was starting to get magic powers (as well as conveniently coming back to life, but I mean Szeth and Jasnah are two of the most awesome and powerful killing machines on Roshar so I am glad they are back with us in the physical realm). However, in regards to Adolin, I was happy that we still had an amazing non-radiant character to ground the story for us uninvested folk. But I mean come on... The relationship between Maya and Adolin is almost as good if not as good as the relationship between Adolin and Shallan. Let him become radiant!

[Cephandrius Everstorm]

On 2017-11-24 at 4:18 AM, manugutito said:

There was speculation by the shard cast that the "seek these waters in person and overcome the tests we have created" quote could reference autonomies' (or possibly Trell if your theory holds) possible influence or presence on First of the Sun, even though silver light has specifically stated that there is NOT a shard residing on this planet there is clearly investiture permeating the planet andthe creatures who live amongst the "pantheon" (notice the name and possible significance there). This investiture creates a cognitive connection of creatures on these various islands. Allowing predators to hunt via reading the brain waves or thought waves of their prey (could be characteristic of a hive mind or at least connectedness of minds). There is also a stable perpendicularity there which we know is a pooling of a shards power. Why is there a stable perpendicularity in place where no shard currently resides? From WoB there is at least one shard who manifests in many different individuals to the extent that there are worlds where people worship various different gods and goddesses that are all one shard, Bavadin who I believe is Autonomy. So it is possible that one individual who is autonomy or perhaps multiple individuals who are autonomy (the pantheon) are actually dwelling on first of the sun and there presence there has caused the stable perpendicularity to form. I forget if creatures from different islands (The Avian? Or birds which I forget the name for) actually manifest different abilities based on the island of their birth or the ones they are brought to. This could suggest the individual nature (or autonomy) of the different hosts of Autonomy in the way that ther investiture manifests differently from one another's from island to island or individual to individual. But I could be wrong and it could be the interaction of a single source of investiture in reaction to the autonomy of the individual bird or individual species of bird or even more so if this extends to other creatures. We know on Roshar that Spren bond with different creatures and this symbiosis of investiture and organic being results in different abilities or capabilities of that animal that would otherwise go against the normal rules of physics (skyeels flight, and chasmfiends ability to not get crushed beneath their own weight). The symbiotic relationship of investiture from autonomy (or trell or whomever) on the creaturesand people of First of the Sun may manifest similarly.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Cephandrius Everstorm

[king of nowhere]

the dalinar flashback sequence was masterful. It was a chore to read through shallan's and adolin's, but not those ones. And that bait! Just when I was thinking "well, the warmongering is done. Dalinar was not a bad guy, but he didn't do anything irredemable", and then slam! rathalas round 2! Also discovering that he never really loved his wife, and that he was an absent father for his children. My admiration for adolin is even greater now: he turned out so good despite a father that cared little about him until he was 18. the sequences in the way of king when adolin supports and helps dalinar are much stronger for it; dalinar was not a good father, and yet adolin still stands by him.

And despite everything we uncover about his past, dalinar still gained redemption. Just sublime. Incidentally, dalinar not only redeemed himself, but a lot other people in the process. by acting as he did, he won the trust and admiration of both adolin and szeth. if dalinar had been a shred less honorable, kaladin would have been in moash' place, and szeth would have sided with odium. All this from someone who committed genocide ten yeas prior.

redemption is a really big theme in the SA. Pretty much every main character needs to gain redemption from something. Some achieve it, while others lose their chance. And the top contender for this is taravangian. really, near the end I was thinking he'd tell everyone to dalinar, come clean and support him. instead, he just told dalinar enough to gain his trust, and then he allied with odium. really? I mean, really? the diagram failed big time on predicting stuff. and if dalinar managed to resist odium despite vargo's best attempts to sabotage him, then maybe the rational thing to do would have been to ditch the diagram and help him. but no, he had to go and ally with odium.this is where I stop seeing him as a deeply conflicted man and start seeing him as a fanatic.

on the down side, I found the book slow in the kholinar arc - mostly because I didn't care enough about all the shallan's sub-arcs - and I was expecting more in the dialogues between shallan, adolin and kaladin. I mean, when she told adolin about the split personalities and he told her about sadeas, it had the potential to be a crowning moment of hearwarming, but it was more like "meh". also, superpowered mutant amaram was too much over the top.

[TorchSpren]

First time posting and while I loved the book, I was felt myself getting disappointed every time the scenes shifted back to Shadesmar. It was a tough for me get through. I liked the overall aspect of seeing the sprens in their full form and the aspect of the higher sprens having cities, but it was quite honestly boring for me to read.

Moash and Taravangian how I loathe thee!! Disappointed in Malata's actions too.

[vividox]

28 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

redemption is a really big theme in the SA. Pretty much every main character needs to gain redemption from something. Some achieve it, while others lose their chance. And the top contender for this is taravangian. really, near the end I was thinking he'd tell everyone to dalinar, come clean and support him. instead, he just told dalinar enough to gain his trust, and then he allied with odium. really? I mean, really? the diagram failed big time on predicting stuff. and if dalinar managed to resist odium despite vargo's best attempts to sabotage him, then maybe the rational thing to do would have been to ditch the diagram and help him. but no, he had to go and ally with odium.this is where I stop seeing him as a deeply conflicted man and start seeing him as a fanatic.

I couldn't agree with this more, and that part was incredibly frustrating to me. 

I mean, I guess you can make the case that Taravangian really thinks that despite everything Dalinar has done, it's meaningless in the face of a Shard. But to actively undermine him when he's doing such a good job of evening the score is just bewildering. I guess it does fall in line with Taravangian's smarter/crueler days (a guarantee of a city is better than a slim chance at the whole population, in sheer numerical terms), but it's kind of strange that he puts so much emphasis on the smarter/crueler days when several parts of the diagram have already been shown to be wrong and clearly the future is not set in stone.

Tangential thought: I almost wonder if he's having more dumb/empathetic days because Cultivation is trying to make him more emotionally invested in his decisions?

[Fulminato he/him]

55 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

redemption is a really big theme in the SA. Pretty much every main character needs to gain redemption from something. Some achieve it, while others lose their chance. And the top contender for this is taravangian. really, near the end I was thinking he'd tell everyone to dalinar, come clean and support him. instead, he just told dalinar enough to gain his trust, and then he allied with odium. really? I mean, really? the diagram failed big time on predicting stuff. and if dalinar managed to resist odium despite vargo's best attempts to sabotage him, then maybe the rational thing to do would have been to ditch the diagram and help him. but no, he had to go and ally with odium.this is where I stop seeing him as a deeply conflicted man and start seeing him as a fanatic.

but Mr. T during the confrontation whit odium read a sentece from the diagram itself. up to date the diagram had some resemblance of the ancient greek oracles, a truth spoke in riddle needed to be interpreted. the diagram is correct (at least some part of it) and point to 'join' odium after he try and fail to make dalinar his champion.

and I said find the day of genius and stupidity to much convenient, after Mr. T come to urithiru he needed a very smat day to 're-analyze' the diagram e come to the plan to undermine dalinar and take his place at the head of the colation. (place he can obtain because king of jah keved, one the country how weather better the new storm, kingdom gained by the diagram scheme), and in WoR the day he go to the destroyed vedenar and meet szeth cannot be too stupid, even the day the shin try to 'kill' Mr T. he show a good intellectual skill.

the crucial days he had alwasy the 'right' intelligence for the task. and i find this realy too suspiciously.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Fulminato

[vividox]

22 minutes ago, TorchSpren said:

Moash and Taravangian how I loathe thee!! Disappointed in Malata's actions too.

Malata just feels like a really boring Taravangian pawn at this point. 

[king of nowhere]

51 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

but Mr. T during the confrontation whit odium read a sentece from the diagram itself. up to date the diagram had some resemblance of the ancient greek oracles, a truth spoke in riddle needed to be interpreted. the diagram is correct (at least some part of it) and point to 'join' odium after he try and fail to make dalinar his champion.

 

I'm not sure about that. There is only so much taravangian could have written in 20 hours, and with an ever-branching future, there are limits to how many possibilities he can predict. I believe at this point that taravangian is basically grasping at straws, taking out-of.context pieces of the diagram and intepreting them as he wills.

[ZenBossanova]

On 11/22/2017 at 0:40 AM, Suteneko said:

And I have a feeling that he is going to really regret the deal he made with Odium.

I really wonder if it is going to be Rayse that regrets it. I could see Mr T using his deal with the Devil to his own advantage and tricking his way out. 

[Fulminato he/him]

35 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I'm not sure about that. There is only so much taravangian could have written in 20 hours, and with an ever-branching future, there are limits to how many possibilities he can predict. I believe at this point that taravangian is basically grasping at straws, taking out-of.context pieces of the diagram and intepreting them as he wills.

He read them out loud. “You have agreed to a battle of champions. You must withdraw to prevent this contest from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise, he can force you to fight. This means you must let your agents do your work. You need me.”

Oathbringer Chapter 122 "A Debt Repaid"

i find this too perfect, for write that sentence you need to know

• Dalinar became the bondsmith
• Dalinar follow the path of contested champion
• the odium's champion  will be Dalinar
• Dalinar refuse the odium's offer
• Odium will poke around the diagram
• Odium don't have a plan B

how a man, even one at his highest intelligence, can put all thing together? this remember me the 'hero of ages' prophecies. in the end they find exact resolution. but the prophecies was crafted by a shard, the death rattle had the same accuracy, but a unmade make them (probably) using the dying soul to glimpse the future in the spiritual realm. no common man should had made so perfect phrase for the aftermath of the thaylen city's battle.

I think cultivation had 'shaped' the diagram narrative to in the end defeat odium.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Fulminato

[The Rooster he/him]

Hey Ya'll I thought I'd just drop this here.  You'll notice at the bottom of my profile is a theory from 2013 postulating that humans came to Roshar and Parshendi were natives.    Along with a request for anyone who'd said this previously to speak up.  I just noticed it, it made me laugh. 

 Rosharian Anthropology

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, The Rooster said:

Hey Ya'll I thought I'd just drop this here.  You'll notice at the bottom of my profile is a theory from 2013 postulating that humans came to Roshar and Parshendi were natives.    Along with a request for anyone who'd said this previously to speak up.  I just noticed it, it made me laugh. 

 Rosharian Anthropology

Yes, I remember seeing that theory before, and it was considered likely, given how alien they are over the general landscape.

Among confirmed theories, we have also dalinar killing his wife.

I don't think anyone guessed anything about the fused before they appeared in book, though.

Edited November 28, 2017 by king of nowhere

[What's a Seawolf?]

22 hours ago, Fulminato said:

He read them out loud. “You have agreed to a battle of champions. You must withdraw to prevent this contest from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise, he can force you to fight. This means you must let your agents do your work. You need me.”

Oathbringer Chapter 122 "A Debt Repaid"

i find this too perfect

Yep, I agree.  I think that line was either added after the fact by someone (not necessarily Mr T,) or Cultivation played a much larger role in the Diagram then simply giving Mr. T a gift and a curse.