[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[Goatbringer he/him]

Wow. Just wow. 

Finished 15 minutes ago and my body is still shaking from adrenaline. That must have been the heaviest Sanderlanche I've ever read. There was so much in that tome to unpack that it's going to be hard to wrap my head around all that I learned, conceived and experienced in this last week since getting the book. Suffice to say, it was such another wonderful adventure and worth the 1351 day wait. Here are some of my reactions to the whole thing:

• Kal's Story: Though I was excited for him to say it, I'm glad we didn't get to hear Kaladin actually say the 4th Ideal of the Windrunners. Syl makes a good point where Kal can't save everyone, and just once it would be okay for someone to save him. I absolutely LOVED his fight with mecha-Unmade-Amaram and that Amaram's true self really shone through there. I think that by the time book 4 rolls around, Kal's 4th ideal will have a lot to do with not being able to save everyone, and the lessons he learned being with Bridge 4 will help him discover that. I'm upset - being the consummate Shalladin supporter that I am - at Kal and Shallan's fizzled romance. BUT: I get it.
• Shallan's Story: I can't help but feel that Shallan's Dissociative Identity Disorder story will continue well into book 4 until she can accept that she is all of these people instead of compartmentalizing parts of herself into Veil and Radiant. I think that her brothers and her marriage to Adolin (who I do think is the best fit for her, despite my Shalladin leanings) will play no small part in her finding her next Ideal. I feel like Shallan's story wasn't as rounded or as meaningful as her progression in OB as it was in WoR, but that's kind of to be expected in the wake of WoR being her flashback book. I loved her ending though, she really deserves happiness. Only thing I wanted more of, however was more Ghostbloods! 
• Dalinar's Story: My god, it was wonderful. I can't believe Brandon's had that one locked and loaded for so long. Everything about Dalinar's progression here from ambitious but uncertain grumpy warlord to multi-dimensional transcendental grumpy warlord was nothing short of spectacular. My singular favourite moment in the entire book (potentially the entire series) was him taking the next step and realizing that the Nightwatcher's Cultivation's boon and curse was really what saved Roshar. Everything from his story was important, insightful and wonderful. I loved his Third Ideal, I loved discovering his powers, I loved that he was Odium's preferred champion.... damnation this book was phenomenal. 

Will probably post more reactions on ALL THE OTHER THINGS when I have time, but my goodness what a wild ride that was. 

And I think I speak for all of us when I say: GIVE ME BOOK FOUR ALREADY! You've had a week, Sanderson!

[Jibaja]

On 11/14/2017 at 0:30 AM, Leyrann said:

So much agreed here. Dalinar was absolutely awesome when he denied Odium. Free will > evil gods.

I think he's gonna be a Radiant, actually. Just not yet, though. Sure want to see how this is going to develop in the future!
 

I'm more interested in seeing if he'll be able to revive his swords spren as it is and make a bond out of that.  I mean, he's actually made progress with it. He was told not to pretend that it's his friend, yet he respects it and treats it as an actual entity, she saved him by jumping the fused, she told him her name. That seems to be progression of sorts, i mean with everything else going wacky, who knows.

[StormingTexan he/him]

I re-read part 5 and it was much better the second time. Really helped to read it with out all the "what is going to happen next" anticipation. It still feels dizzying with all the POV switches during the battle. 

[Andy92]

I loved reading this book. I broke down in tears when Elhokar died. To see him with his child in one arm, Shallan's photo of the man he could be in the other, speaking the Words...I think that's the toughest scene I've read in the entire series.

Part 5 was full of tons and tons of reveals. Dalinar's Ascension was a highlight of the book. So much Cosmere goodness going on in this one lol. 

[timasp he/him]

On 14/11/2017 at 8:58 PM, Steeldancer said:

DIE SHALLADIN DIE 

Thank goodness. 

That was... 

Amazing

Wit you bastard. Attracting a cryptic...

Dalinar... Sort of ascended? 

Amaram totally did the double weilding thing. 

2 new Windrunners. Storms I loved Lopens oath. Loved it. So much. That was HILARIOUS. 

And dalinars struggles... Holy cow. I nearly cried.

renarin and a corrupted yet good Spren?

jez was who we thought he was, and FREAKING MOASH KILLED HIM? I AM GOING TO STRANGLE UOU MOASH

Taln. Let it be known. Taln is my man. Insult him at your own risk. 

Szeth. Was awesome.

as was lift. 

Storms this was stuff I didn't expect until book 5! 

Im glad Kaladin failed to find his fourth oath. Would have felt repetitive. I would like to see some more growth there. 

Also, HA to the Shalladin shippers. 

Also, Adolins sword? If he's not going to heal it then I don't know what will. He's awesome with that sword. 

This book was amazing. I need to reread that letter.

im almost underwhelmed by the secret of the Recreance. But at the same time...

also, Taran is going full evil. Fantastic. 

Siblings of the Stormfather? Flying ships? I AM SO EXCITEEEEEEEE I WANT FLYING SHIPS TO BOMBARD ODIUM. 

So many awesome things in this book. 

What broke Jasnah?

shadesmar was awesome. 

Renarin. 

Things. 

Epicness. 

Can I even describe the experience of reading this book? It was so DAMNATION good. 

Yes.

Also:

"DESTROY...

...EVIL"

I always imagine that as Nightblood's voice but suddenly not cheerful and so distorted

Also to everyone's speaking about Shallan:
1. When Shallan lost herself, I originally thought it would be a repeat of Kaladin in WoR and I'm happy it wasn't

2. In my opinion, what she experienced wasn't MPD but a separate thing, a product of her self delusion mixed with her powers.

3. I think her attraction to Kaladin wasn't so much intended to be a genuine option for her. To me it seemed obvious that it would eventually turn to Adolin. I think it was more intended to intensify her conflict with Veil and Radiant -- Adolin being Shallan's own choice. Finally, I though it was to get Kaladin's romantic plot started. I think it's now set up to actually happen in other books.

Things that made me smile:

- Drehy's homosexuality coming to the front and the shattering of the gender roles with woman fighters being accepted and Dalinar learning to write

 

Finally:

YOU. CANNOT. HAVE. MY. PAIN.

Chills. And also the character change is shown so much in that one moment.

[Steeldancer he/him]

You know what I realized? We never saw Dalinar get Gallant. Darn 

[rjl]

Started a re-read, noticed something I hadn't before, the "big secret" is on the first page of the book: "She'd always imagined humans - as sung in of in the songs - as dark formless monsters."

[Bridge Boy]

43 minutes ago, rjl said:

Started a re-read, noticed something I hadn't before, the "big secret" is on the first page of the book: "She'd always imagined humans - as sung in of in the songs - as dark formless monsters."

I noticed this the first time I read it; but I was under the impression that we, as the reader, already knew who the voidbringers were at this point. It's pretty heavily foreshadowed in the prior books as well that humans are the "bad guys". I was really hoping for a bigger "big secret". I'm still very optimistic there is more to this than meets the eye. I cant wait for the next book.

[AllTheEarth she/her]

Just finished it Sunday night. Thoughts:

- Dalinar's arc is excellent, almost made me cry near the end. (Small nitpick: It bothers me when Dalinar's dialogue sounds like a modern young dude. Like, he should never use "like" like that.)

- Kaladin's inability to say his words was also emotionally powerful. I noticed a few people wanted to know what his words would be: guys, they're the same as Teft's. That's why Syl's like "Oh, Kaladin" when Kaladin says "I am pretty down on myself. Maybe that's the failure that made me unworthy."

- Odium as the humans' original god is interesting, as is an anti-human listener/singer Knight Radiant.

- I agree with a lot of other people that the love triangle was unsatisfying. I'm a big fan of romance plotlines and often like love triangles, so that was disappointing. A lot of the most interesting angles were unexplored, e.g. Kaladin admires Shallan's ability to repress her trauma, but that isn't actually psychologically healthy, but also that's what keeps her from thinking about how he killed her brother. That's interesting! And it's barely touched on! The two of them go flying off on a mission *alone* and we don't even get to see any scenes from it! And they don't talk at the end! Even if it was only Veil who "really" liked him they should still probably talk about it! Brandon's never been a *great* romance writer, frankly.

[timasp he/him]

1 hour ago, AllTheEarth said:

I agree with a lot of other people that the love triangle was unsatisfying. I'm a big fan of romance plotlines and often like love triangles, so that was disappointing. A lot of the most interesting angles were unexplored, e.g. Kaladin admires Shallan's ability to repress her trauma, but that isn't actually psychologically healthy, but also that's what keeps her from thinking about how he killed her brother. That's interesting! And it's barely touched on! The two of them go flying off on a mission *alone* and we don't even get to see any scenes from it! And they don't talk at the end! Even if it was only Veil who "really" liked him they should still probably talk about it! Brandon's never been a *great* romance writer, frankly.

See, as much as I like love subplots, especially happy love subplots, I dislike love triangles, so I was actually really happy about that. Also, as long as Shallan still hasn't fully learned to be herself, it'll pop up again -- it'll make it extra interesting with the wedding. Maybe Brandon's going for a bit of Camelot stuff?

 

[Paracosmic_nomenclator]

Just finished literally a few minutes ago, and... wow. Just... wow.

Seeing Jasnah in a proper fight for the first time was AMAZING! She's probably my favorite character at this point. I'm really happy to see her become the Alethi queen, and hope we get more of her in future books.

I had been expecting Dalinar to revert back to the Blackthorne and become Odium's champion since halfway through WoK. Never, in my entire life, have I been so happy to watch a pet theory get shattered before my eyes. The most important step is the next. You cannot have my pain. Chills.

Learning more about spren was really cool. I liked how the 'spren' we see in the physical realm are just little bits of the actual shadesmar entities. Though I'm not sold on Venli as a character, seeing her bond with the captain of the spren ship (whose name I'm forgetting) was quite cool.

Frickin' Kaladin... Poor dude can't catch a break. I mean, yeah, he always recovers by the end of the book, but it feels like the emotional trough he falls into in the middle gets deeper every time. First his curse of survival, then almost killing Syl, now watching Moash and Parshman Bridge 4 kill Elhokar. Geez... 

It was great watching Bridge 4 grow, both with new members, and new proper Radiants. All the members whose names start with 'R' (Rock, Rlain, Renarin), are all going through interesting arcs right now. I also liked the introduction of Tyn (Anyone else feeling KalaTyn?).

The fabrial stuff has me really intrigued. First off, the airships look awesome. I don't know how they're going to land with those sails at the bottom, but I'm really excited to see them get built and used. Urithiru itself being a fabrial is also intriguing, along with the mystery of why it isn't working. My current theory for that is that they need to trap a powerful spren (my money's on Sja-Anat) in that gem pedestal in the center.

Hoid/Wit got a lot more spotlight in this book than he ever has before. If I'm up to date, he's now a lightweaver, mistborn, and knight radiant (additionally, I'm pretty sure that when he animated that doll in the Epilogue, he was using the magic from warbreaker (can't remember the name of the planet in that one (Triple parentheses, whee!))). In the past, whenever Hoid has used lightweaving to tell a story, it's been important. In this book, he told two. The first (about the girl and the wall), I took as foreshadowing for the 'big secret' that caused the Recreance. The second (about blue skinned human-moon hybrid baby) I think is going to have significance in the future. The story he told Kaladin in WoK (about the ship going to the absolutist theocratic island) I think foreshadows Dalinar's redemption in this book. Maybe the baby story means that Humans and Parshmen (Parshendi? Singers? LIsteners? Rosharans? Not sure what to call them...) will be able to outwit Odium and share Roshar peacefully.

Moash... man, what a downer. I kept expecting him to have a change of heart. I just hope he doesn't become Odium's champion. That would be 2sad4me.

Honestly, I only had two minor complaints with this book, both focusing around Dalinar. First, as several others have pointed out, his dialog as the Blackthorne felt discordant. Second (and I'm fully aware that this is a ludicrous non-complaint to have), is I really wish instead of a bracer/wristwatch, Navani would have given him a fob watch. I can really esily see him pulling a watch on a long golden chain out of his uniform, but him raising his arm to check the time feels... off, somehow. Also, fob watches are cool.

Wooh! Okay, I think that's everything for now. Going to have to reread a few key sections to see what I can get from them. Any news on when the next one will be out? This series is more addictive than firemoss infused with the Thrill.

~PN

[StormingTexan he/him]

3 hours ago, AllTheEarth said:

Brandon's never been a *great* romance writer, frankly

Brandon has said he likes romance so I see why he includes it but I agree it’s not his strong suit. 

I honestly rate the romance least amongst things I care about in SA. I actually like romance in books but we really don’t see it done in these books very well so I have a hard time caring. Not knocking Brandon he is so great at so many things it would be unfair if he was great at this too. It’s something he may improve on which I would not be surprised at all to see after I’ve seen him grow in so many areas. 

In paticular I wouldn’t believe in any relationship Kaladin is in. He still has to learn to love himself before he could love anyone else. 

Brandon is however  good at showing love between family and especially brothers at arms so I tend to care about that a lot more in the books. 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by StormingTexan
Spelling

[Argo]

Hi guys. I'm new to the forums here. I'm also farely new to Brandon Sanderson's work. I discovered him through The Wheel of Time. I thought that he did such an excellent job finishing that series that I wanted to look into his stuff, and I'm addicted. The first mistborn series was my favorite of all of his writings (and in 2 years I've bought and read everything) until Oathbringer. I've read what some of you have said about the love triangle, and I agree with that. Also to me the whole Shallan/Veil/Radiant schizophrenia thing I didn't like, but I'm not sure if I was unhappy with the story telling of it, or just that I want to Shallan as whole, and awesome. I love lift, but I'm sorry that she now knows that Wyndle isn't a voidbringer because that was funny as hell (I'm glad I read edgedancer before OB). Overall this book was excellent, and it pushed the Stormlight Archives to the top of my all time favorite series behind only LOTR. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Argo

[Suteneko]

I loved it, just like the first two.  I loved Shallen's journey, Wit helping her, everything.  

I almost couldn't keep reading after Kaladin froze, all I could think was: Oh no, Poor Kaladin! T_T

And the Kaladin/Shallan pairing has been destroyed.  I can fully admit that that part was my absolute least favorite part of this book.  I actually really loved the idea of these two, and I think Shallan doesn't realize how much Kaladin understands her.  I think he could get her even better than Adolin if she had spent more time with him.  I definitely agree with some of what I read in the earlier posts in this thread, Brandon would not have drawn it out this much to cut it off so sharply.  Despite what Kaladin says to Syl, I think he really liked her.  Granted, the differences in their spren, oaths, and Radiant Orders might have become a problem in the future, Kaladin is bonded to an Honorspren after all, but DARN IT, I liked that pairing.  And while socially, as a ward with Jasnah, it would be easier for Adolin and her to have a relationship, considering Kaladin's position, abilities, and constant time in battle, I just liked how Kaladin and Shallan interacted better.

Not that I don't like Adolin, but I agree with Shallan's thoughts from Words of Radiants, about how he doesn't respond to her quips, intelligence, and teasing like Kaladin and she is kind of disappointed.  There are even a few moments in this book where she is thinking the same thing.  

Ok, done with that rant, sorry.

I was so sad about Elhokar, especially when he was just about to get so much better.  

I'm worried about the secrets Rock from B4 is keeping.  

I know I am in a minority, but the idea that the humans were the invaders actually took me by surprise.  I could honestly see why the Radiants would have had a problem with this, especially considering what their history tells.  The twist that they actually brought Odium with them and not Honor, yet the two shards are on completely different sides now was also very surprising.  I'm sure there is much more to that story, just like there has to be more to why the Radiants abandoned their oaths.

I wonder how the spren would react if they found out that the Radiants were worried about completely destroying the world.  If that would change how some of them felt about what they did.  

Also: Kaladin's Homecoming was perfect.  He honestly could not have wrote that better.  From him seeing his parents, to showing his eye color change, to his big dramatic exit, I completely enjoyed every bit of it.

And some more Warbreaker people!  I was trying to figure out Azure from the first moment we met her, she seemed so out of place somehow.  It was awesome to realize exactly who she was, let alone who the old sword master is.  I have to reread Warbreaker now, I can't remember what those two were doing at the end.  

I loved learning Dalinar's history, it was so interesting to see just how he turned into someone who would give up a shardblade to keep his word from the battle hungry soldier from his youth.  The slaughter of the Rift city part just killed me, he was trying to do the right thing, trying to do what his wife suggested and they turned on him.  It was horrible, but I can understand why he snapped as badly as he did.  I would have been just as angry, but without a lifetime of battle and habit to push me to such extremes.  I'm sure the Thrill didn't help things either.  Yet he tried to get better.  And with help, he did.  

I am horribly glad that Taravangian and his madness keep getting thwarted, that was very nice.  And I have a feeling that he is going to really regret the deal he made with Odium.

I feel like this mostly is a book about the grey areas, how people change, and no one is all good or all bad.  And I love that about Brandon, how he slips those things in there, making the story so much richer.

Anyway, loved it, Words of Radiance is still my favorite, but I still loved this one and I am going to be so glad when the next one comes out!

[skaa he/him]

I have to confess something: I have major problems with Oathbringer, especially the last couple of chapters ("Ideals" and "Debt Repaid"). Now, don't get me wrong; as a Sharder who loves getting as much info about the cosmere as possible, I am very thankful that Brandon tried to pack in so much in such a short space.

But as a reader... it was all a bit exhausting, to be honest. With all the action going on post-climax, it almost felt like I was reading the start of another story instead of an ending. Despite liking most of the ending scenes over all, by the last dozen pages a sort of fatigue started setting in.

In a way, I understand why Brandon did this. The scene where Dalinar was writing his memoirs is one of the must-haves of the book, which is named after said memoirs. Of course it has to be there. The trouble is that Dalinar would not have had time to work on "Oathbringer, My Glory and My Shame" until more pressing concerns were handled, namely, Taravangian's betrayal, the vacant throne of Alethkar, and his son's marriage. And so Brandon chose to write scenes dealing with those three things first, along with a bunch of other stuff that happened in between. Only then could he end the book with Dalinar writing his memoirs.

The thing is, in my opinion this is one instance where the show, don't tell rule of writing could have been and should have been ignored. Every writing rule has exceptions, and I truly believe a "tell" way of resolving some of the loose threads would have allowed Brandon to write a single, more effective ending chapter instead of the two chapters that we had. In addition, I believe some of the scenes would have been better off being moved to a separate novella published after Oathbringer.

Let me list down all the scenes in the last two chapters, and how I personally would have suggested changing some of them if I were Brandon's editor:

1. Moash is given an assignment - Keep.
2. Dalinar asks Navani to teach him how to read - Keep.
3. Shallan realizes that Adolin knows the real her - Keep.
4. Venli ponders on her fate - Keep.
5. Szeth swears the Third Ideal of the Skybreakers - Keep.
    
6. Shallan and Adolin confess their love for each other - Move to novella.
    
7. Kaladin ponders on stuff and talks to Teft - Keep.
    
8. Taravangian confesses to Dalinar - Move to novella.
    
9. Moash kills Jezrien - Keep. But end the scene with the Fused giving Moash Jezrien's Honorblade and renaming him as Vyre immediately after Jezrien dies, so that we can skip the last Moash scene.
    
10. Lopen swears the Second Ideal of the Windrunners - Keep. But end it before Lopen talks to Kaladin. And switch with the Ash scene below.
     
11. Ash feels her father's death - Keep. But switch with Lopen scene above.
     
12. Kaladin finds Drehy, Skar, and Gavinor - Drop. Instead, replace Teft's final interlude (I-14, which I felt wasn't really needed and didn't even feel like a good interlude) with an interlude from Drehy's POV showing how they managed to send a spanreed message, and perhaps giving details on how they survived the Kholinar disaster. This is the only change I would suggest outside of the last two chapters.
     
13. Taravangian faces Odium. Move to novella.
     
14. Adolin confesses to the murder of Sadeas and refuses kingship - Move to novella.
     
15. Palona reads gossip and Jasnah appears as queen - Drop. Instead, write a scene from the POV of Jochi of Thaylenah, where we get another spanreed conference between him, Ethid, and Jasnah. Jochi talks about how the common Thaylen folk are coping after half their city was destroyed, while Jasnah reports about Elhokar's death and the rescue of Gavinor, the confessions of Taravangian and Adolin, Shallan and Adolin's marriage, and finally (*gasp*) her coronation as queen of Alethkar!
     
16. Moash receives the Honorblade - Drop. See scene 9 above.
     
17. Shallan and her brothers reunite, and she receives a new Ghostblood assignment - Move to novella.
     
18. Dalinar writes Oathbringer - Keep.

 

As you can see, if I had my way there would have been only 11 scenes (10 pre-existing + 1 new scene) in Oathbringer's ending instead of 18, and I think all of that would have fitted a single chapter. The spanreed conversation of the hypothetical Jochi scene is what I meant by breaking the "show, don't tell" rule for the sake of a shorter, better ending over all. I think it would have worked because, after all, we already had a chapter with the three Veristitalians conversing via spanreed earlier in the novel, and I believe Brandon could have pulled off another one. Also, the actual Scene 15 felt lacking to me because we never got to know Jasnah's thoughts about being queen. My alternative scene would have allowed her to express herself a bit.

***

In my alternative timeline, Oathbringer wouldn't have had Shallan and Adolin's passionate kiss except through Kaladin's POV. It also wouldn't have had Taravangian's encounter with Odium. But that's where the novella comes in. In my little fantasy I imagine the hypothetical novella to have two parts:

The first part, called "Hate", has Taravangian's POV of his treacherous acts during the battle of Thaylen City. Then comes his confession to Dalinar (Scene 8) and the Odium encounter (Scene 13), each expanded into their own chapters.

The second part, called "Love", has all the Shallan scenes after Scene 3 expanded into their own chapters. After Scene 14, there is a chapter showing Jasnah's coronation. More importantly, after Scene 17 we actually get to see the marriage ceremony of Shallan and Adolin, which is kind of a big deal if you ask me.

I don't know what Brandon would have called this hypothetical novella, but I'm thinking that "Passions that Bind" is a nice title.

***

Okay, I'm starting to wonder if maybe my imagination has gone wilder than usual this time. I guess I just felt that Oathbringer could have been a much more awesome book if the ending was handled a bit better. Brandon's writing has improved a lot in some ways, but sadly this is my least-favorite ending in a Sanderson book so far.

But the rest of the book was simply awesome. That is something I agree with almost everyone.

Edited September 29, 2018 by skaa

[GrooFudge]

8 hours ago, AllTheEarth said:

- Kaladin's inability to say his words was also emotionally powerful. I noticed a few people wanted to know what his words would be: guys, they're the same as Teft's. That's why Syl's like "Oh, Kaladin" when Kaladin says "I am pretty down on myself. Maybe that's the failure that made me unworthy."

That was Teft's third oath. They don't have to be identical (As we learn from "Journey before Pancakes")

[Willow]

9 hours ago, AllTheEarth said:

- Kaladin's inability to say his words was also emotionally powerful. I noticed a few people wanted to know what his words would be: guys, they're the same as Teft's. That's why Syl's like "Oh, Kaladin" when Kaladin says "I am pretty down on myself. Maybe that's the failure that made me unworthy."

As @GrooFudge said, that was Teft's third oath, just like Kaladin's third oath was 'I will protect even those I hate, as long as it is right.', the third one is about protecting people regardless of your opinion about them. Kaladin's a bit further ahead than Teft in the Windrunner progression (I wonder when Teft swore his first and second Oaths?). We don't know what the fourth oath is yet, the only hint we've had was from the Windrunner message in the epigraphs:

Quote

My spren claims that this recording will be good for me, so here I go. Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don’t think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?

It seems to be about not helping everyone all the time, or letting go of your failures, or something else. That's why we're speculating.

[AngelEy3 he/him]

I'm a little disappointed in all this anti-love triangle talk. Hasn't anyone here ever been even remotely involved in one? Nobody has experienced not being sure of what you are feeling? Or who around you might be better for your future or your goals? No one has been attracted to two people at the same time for differing reasons? 

[manugutito he/him]

7 hours ago, Paracosmic_nomenclator said:

Hoid/Wit got a lot more spotlight in this book than he ever has before. If I'm up to date, he's now a lightweaver, mistborn, and knight radiant (additionally, I'm pretty sure that when he animated that doll in the Epilogue, he was using the magic from warbreaker (can't remember the name of the planet in that one (Triple parentheses, whee!))).

Hoid has Breath for sure. Remember WoR's scene where he and Kaladin talk in the chasms, and Hoid claims that playing the flute is easier "with perfect pitch"? That means Second Heightening minimum IIRC.

[Hiadin Haloun he/him]

13 hours ago, rjl said:

Started a re-read, noticed something I hadn't before, the "big secret" is on the first page of the book: "She'd always imagined humans - as sung in of in the songs - as dark formless monsters."

In re reading WoK and WoR in preparation for OB I started thinking that humans were the voidbringers to start with.  When the reveal came I was not surprised at all.  The listener songs talk about the spren betrayal, choosing humans, how they didn't shatter the plains, and a few other hints that could be picked up on.

I don't think, however, that odium really was their god when they showed up. I think he followed them after killing their god, or perhaps both of their gods.  

[Mulk he/him]

18 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

You know what I realized? We never saw Dalinar get Gallant. Darn 

I assumed this was because no Ryshadium would have chosen him until after Cultivation did her thing and he started really growing as a person.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Mulk

[AllTheEarth she/her]

Quote

That was Teft's third oath. They don't have to be identical (As we learn from "Journey before Pancakes")

Oh!

[AllTheEarth she/her]

Quote

I believe some of the scenes would have been better off being moved to a separate novella published after Oathbringer

Not everyone is a super-fan who reads all the novellas. Plot-critical things (like Taravangian confessing to Dalinar) have to be included in the main books. It would be just weird if the next book begins with "Dalinar reflected upon how Taravangian had confessed to him, a radical development completely upending his relationship to the man"). Also if the resolution of the romance plot-line got pushed off to a novella it would have had me in a murderous rage.

[manugutito he/him]

5 hours ago, Hiadin Haloun said:

In re reading WoK and WoR in preparation for OB I started thinking that humans were the voidbringers to start with.  When the reveal came I was not surprised at all.  The listener songs talk about the spren betrayal, choosing humans, how they didn't shatter the plains, and a few other hints that could be picked up on.

I don't think, however, that odium really was their god when they showed up. I think he followed them after killing their god, or perhaps both of their gods.  

They had to get their Surges from somewhere if they were to use them destroy their old planet, I guess. We only know of three Shards that give access to Surges, although that doesn't mean there can't (couldn't) be others. I think we only know of four Shards killed by Odium, however (Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor). Sel is not destroyed, so that one is discarded (or maybe Elantris happens before SA?). Or maybe Roshar's humans come from Threnody's Fallen World? (Although this is a destroyed continent, not a planet, but again, I can't recall if Shadows... comes before SA or after).

[Starla]

I wonder if Skar and Drehy have a nahel bond at the end of the book. Here is the quote:

Quote

Kaladin frowned as Drehy returned to the fire and picked up one of the figures there. A child? In rags. Yes, a frightened little boy, maybe three or four years old, lips chapped, eyes haunted.

Elhokar’s son.

“We protect those,” Drehy said, “who cannot protect themselves.” 

Does this mean they swore the second oath? Or do squires automatically uphold their radiant's oaths?

Also, how sad that little Gavinor has haunted eyes. I wonder how much he will retain of what happened at the palace. Perhaps this sufficient trauma for him to attract a spren. ("You get a spren! And you get a spren!...")